Another person claiming animals are the same as people

[esalla]

I do not think eating animals violates live and let live.

With all due respect, that sounds like doublespeak. Unlike carnivorous animals, we have a choice. We don't HAVE TO eat flesh. The main reasons people do it are: tradition, habit and simply because they want to, for temporary palate pleasure.

So because we have a choice, when one chooses to take the life of another needlessly, that DOES go against the principle of live and let live.

We are granted a conscience and free will to choose.

True, but why cause unnecessary harm and suffering?

Within that is a lot of latitude. Every creature has a place and a purpose and I do not believe we were placed above them but alongside.

So if you consider animals to be your equal...then why not treat them the way you would want to be treated?

Would you like to be put in a cage, exploited for your body, stabbed in the throat, have your limbs cut off while you're still conscious, then hung upside-down to bleed to death? If you wouldn't want someone to do that to you, why do that to the animals who you say are alongside you?

I think you missed what I said in my first post in this thread.

He wants to tell us all how to live our lives, first they take meat then freedom

I think we could do with less meat and more compassionate treatment of the animals under our care. But we aren’t herbivores and to be healthy vegan requires a good bit of knowledge and access to the right foods and supplements.

Since there were no supplements for 99.999 percent if humanity all nutrients came from nature.

And that is why we are omnivores...

There is some evidence however that humanity may have been herbivores at some point then began to advance rapidly when iodine from shellfish was added to the diet, then the spear was invented

 

[esalla]

What We Owe a Rabbit | Thomas Nagel

Christine Korsgaard is a distinguished philosopher who has taught at Harvard for most of her career. Though not known to the general public, she is eminent within the field for her penetrating and analytically dense writings on ethical theory and her critical interpretations of the works of...

getpocket.com

The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.

Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth

Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.

Pigs can speak, do math, and talk! Wow. Let's hear them!

Pigs don't have to do any of those things, they are still sentient being who can think, feel, and they are just as smart or even smarter than your dog.

The point, which you either ignored or didn't grasp, was that they are not the same as a carrot, which does not have a brain or the ability to feel pain and suffer.

Don't tell me you're another one who is equating a vegetable with sentient, intelligent animals?

So you know for a fact plants don't feel?

Plants don't have a brain or a central nervous system. But we are not talking about a house plant. We are talking about plant-based FOOD that God created for us to eat. God created foods like fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, grains, legumes, etc. for the specific purpose of being food.

So do you really think a good God would create an apple or banana that is designed to be food with the ability to feel pain? Yes or no?

He specifically made animals as food too.

No, He did not. Read Genesis 1 and 2. It is very clear that in the beginning God created both humans AND animals to be herbivores and there was peace and harmony in the pre-fall world.

Also, In Genesis 2, it is clear that they were not created for the purpose of being food. Flesh eating didn't even begin until many centuries later.

But even if we were to set aside the Bible for the moment and just look at this logically, answer this question please. Do you believe a good and loving God would create animals with the ability to enjoy life, experience various feelings, form families and friendships, feel pain and suffering and fear… if they were meant to be food?

In other words, if God were to design food, do you really believe a good and perfect God would design food with the ability to feel terror and fear and pain and suffering? Yes or no?

So in your demented world God did not create lions and tigers. Kid you are literally rewriting the bible to fit your schizzo ideas

You either believe that God created animals with jaws clearly designed to rip flesh apart or he did not.

I doubt if you can even see how crazy you are

Ok, now it's starting to become clear that you are simply dishonest. I am NOT re-writing the bible. All the points I made about the pre-fall world and the original intent are clear in scripture, they are right there in black and white, if you were to take a few minutes to read it.

So, if you are going to be dishonest, I no longer want to discuss this or anything with you. Thanks.

You are rewriting the bible so that God did not create lions tigers and wolves..............................

Kid you were done before you began

All are

 

[buttercup]

What We Owe a Rabbit | Thomas Nagel

Christine Korsgaard is a distinguished philosopher who has taught at Harvard for most of her career. Though not known to the general public, she is eminent within the field for her penetrating and analytically dense writings on ethical theory and her critical interpretations of the works of...

getpocket.com

The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.

Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth

Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.

Pigs can speak, do math, and talk! Wow. Let's hear them!

Pigs don't have to do any of those things, they are still sentient being who can think, feel, and they are just as smart or even smarter than your dog.

The point, which you either ignored or didn't grasp, was that they are not the same as a carrot, which does not have a brain or the ability to feel pain and suffer.

Don't tell me you're another one who is equating a vegetable with sentient, intelligent animals?

So you know for a fact plants don't feel?

Plants don't have a brain or a central nervous system. But we are not talking about a house plant. We are talking about plant-based FOOD that God created for us to eat. God created foods like fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, grains, legumes, etc. for the specific purpose of being food.

So do you really think a good God would create an apple or banana that is designed to be food with the ability to feel pain? Yes or no?

He specifically made animals as food too.

No, He did not. Read Genesis 1 and 2. It is very clear that in the beginning God created both humans AND animals to be herbivores and there was peace and harmony in the pre-fall world.

Also, In Genesis 2, it is clear that they were not created for the purpose of being food. Flesh eating didn't even begin until many centuries later.

But even if we were to set aside the Bible for the moment and just look at this logically, answer this question please. Do you believe a good and loving God would create animals with the ability to enjoy life, experience various feelings, form families and friendships, feel pain and suffering and fear… if they were meant to be food?

In other words, if God were to design food, do you really believe a good and perfect God would design food with the ability to feel terror and fear and pain and suffering? Yes or no?

And yet thousands of Carnivore animals exist. Where did they come from?

The world changed after the fall. Everything became more and more violent. There is also a very controversial part of this that I rarely bring up, but it has to do with what the bible briefly talks about in Genesis 6 and that is also written about in extra-biblical texts, like the book of Enoch and others. But I think that would be "too much" for most here, since it's even controversial among Christians.

Did God make everything or not? And if yes then in fact he made carnivores to eat other animals which of course makes sense since nature is a balancing act of what eats what.

No, again, IN THE BEGINNING things were very, very different than they are now. That is not even debatable among Christians, or at least among Christians who read and study the bible.

God did not create the world the way is is now. It BECAME that way over time, because this is a fallen world.

 

[Leo123]

No, He did not. Read Genesis 1 and 2. It is very clear that in the beginning God created both humans AND animals to be herbivores and there was peace and harmony in the pre-fall world.

Also, In Genesis 2, it is clear that they were not created for the purpose of being food. Flesh eating didn't even begin until many centuries later.

But even if we were to set aside the Bible for the moment and just look at this logically, answer this question please. Do you believe a good and loving God would create animals with the ability to enjoy life, experience various feelings, form families and friendships, feel pain and suffering and fear… if they were meant to be food?

In other words, if God were to design food, do you really believe a good and perfect God would design food with the ability to feel terror and fear and pain and suffering? Yes or no?

A Group of Scientists Suggest that Plants Feel Pain

A Group of Scientists Suggest that Plants Feel Pain

According to researchers from Tel Aviv University, plants can feel pain and they send out ultrasonic sounds when they experience environmental stress

www.sciencetimes.com

Oh those poor plants. We plant them in rows, shove food up their roots and then come along an behead them with a blade.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

What We Owe a Rabbit | Thomas Nagel

Christine Korsgaard is a distinguished philosopher who has taught at Harvard for most of her career. Though not known to the general public, she is eminent within the field for her penetrating and analytically dense writings on ethical theory and her critical interpretations of the works of...

getpocket.com

The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.

Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth

Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.

Pigs can speak, do math, and talk! Wow. Let's hear them!

Pigs don't have to do any of those things, they are still sentient being who can think, feel, and they are just as smart or even smarter than your dog.

The point, which you either ignored or didn't grasp, was that they are not the same as a carrot, which does not have a brain or the ability to feel pain and suffer.

Don't tell me you're another one who is equating a vegetable with sentient, intelligent animals?

So you know for a fact plants don't feel?

Plants don't have a brain or a central nervous system. But we are not talking about a house plant. We are talking about plant-based FOOD that God created for us to eat. God created foods like fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, grains, legumes, etc. for the specific purpose of being food.

So do you really think a good God would create an apple or banana that is designed to be food with the ability to feel pain? Yes or no?

He specifically made animals as food too.

No, He did not. Read Genesis 1 and 2. It is very clear that in the beginning God created both humans AND animals to be herbivores and there was peace and harmony in the pre-fall world.

Also, In Genesis 2, it is clear that they were not created for the purpose of being food. Flesh eating didn't even begin until many centuries later.

But even if we were to set aside the Bible for the moment and just look at this logically, answer this question please. Do you believe a good and loving God would create animals with the ability to enjoy life, experience various feelings, form families and friendships, feel pain and suffering and fear… if they were meant to be food?

In other words, if God were to design food, do you really believe a good and perfect God would design food with the ability to feel terror and fear and pain and suffering? Yes or no?

And yet thousands of Carnivore animals exist. Where did they come from?

The world changed after the fall. Everything became more and more violent. There is also a very controversial part of this that I rarely bring up, but it has to do with what the bible briefly talks about in Genesis 6 and that is also written about in extra-biblical texts, like the book of Enoch and others. But I think that would be "too much" for most here, since it's even controversial among Christians.

Did God make everything or not? And if yes then in fact he made carnivores to eat other animals which of course makes sense since nature is a balancing act of what eats what.

No, again, IN THE BEGINNING things were very, very different than they are now. That is not even debatable among Christians, or at least among Christians who read and study the bible.

God did not create the world the way is is now. It BECAME that way over time, because this is a fallen world.

I ask you a question are all animals made by god yes or no?

 

[buttercup]

What We Owe a Rabbit | Thomas Nagel

Christine Korsgaard is a distinguished philosopher who has taught at Harvard for most of her career. Though not known to the general public, she is eminent within the field for her penetrating and analytically dense writings on ethical theory and her critical interpretations of the works of...

getpocket.com

The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.

Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth

Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.

Pigs can speak, do math, and talk! Wow. Let's hear them!

Pigs don't have to do any of those things, they are still sentient being who can think, feel, and they are just as smart or even smarter than your dog.

The point, which you either ignored or didn't grasp, was that they are not the same as a carrot, which does not have a brain or the ability to feel pain and suffer.

Don't tell me you're another one who is equating a vegetable with sentient, intelligent animals?

So you know for a fact plants don't feel?

Plants don't have a brain or a central nervous system. But we are not talking about a house plant. We are talking about plant-based FOOD that God created for us to eat. God created foods like fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, grains, legumes, etc. for the specific purpose of being food.

So do you really think a good God would create an apple or banana that is designed to be food with the ability to feel pain? Yes or no?

He specifically made animals as food too.

No, He did not. Read Genesis 1 and 2. It is very clear that in the beginning God created both humans AND animals to be herbivores and there was peace and harmony in the pre-fall world.

Also, In Genesis 2, it is clear that they were not created for the purpose of being food. Flesh eating didn't even begin until many centuries later.

But even if we were to set aside the Bible for the moment and just look at this logically, answer this question please. Do you believe a good and loving God would create animals with the ability to enjoy life, experience various feelings, form families and friendships, feel pain and suffering and fear… if they were meant to be food?

In other words, if God were to design food, do you really believe a good and perfect God would design food with the ability to feel terror and fear and pain and suffering? Yes or no?

So in your demented world God did not create lions and tigers. Kid you are literally rewriting the bible to fit your schizzo ideas

You either believe that God created animals with jaws clearly designed to rip flesh apart or he did not.

I doubt if you can even see how crazy you are

Ok, now it's starting to become clear that you are simply dishonest. I am NOT re-writing the bible. All the points I made about the pre-fall world and the original intent are clear in scripture, they are right there in black and white, if you were to take a few minutes to read it.

So, if you are going to be dishonest, I no longer want to discuss this or anything with you. Thanks.

You are rewriting the bible so that God did not create lions tigers and wolves..............................

Kid you were done before you began

All are

I never said that. I have no interest in talking to dishonest people, so feel free to post to someone else.

 

[esalla]

What We Owe a Rabbit | Thomas Nagel

Christine Korsgaard is a distinguished philosopher who has taught at Harvard for most of her career. Though not known to the general public, she is eminent within the field for her penetrating and analytically dense writings on ethical theory and her critical interpretations of the works of...

getpocket.com

The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.

Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth

Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.

Pigs can speak, do math, and talk! Wow. Let's hear them!

Pigs don't have to do any of those things, they are still sentient being who can think, feel, and they are just as smart or even smarter than your dog.

The point, which you either ignored or didn't grasp, was that they are not the same as a carrot, which does not have a brain or the ability to feel pain and suffer.

Don't tell me you're another one who is equating a vegetable with sentient, intelligent animals?

So you know for a fact plants don't feel?

Plants don't have a brain or a central nervous system. But we are not talking about a house plant. We are talking about plant-based FOOD that God created for us to eat. God created foods like fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, grains, legumes, etc. for the specific purpose of being food.

So do you really think a good God would create an apple or banana that is designed to be food with the ability to feel pain? Yes or no?

He specifically made animals as food too.

No, He did not. Read Genesis 1 and 2. It is very clear that in the beginning God created both humans AND animals to be herbivores and there was peace and harmony in the pre-fall world.

Also, In Genesis 2, it is clear that they were not created for the purpose of being food. Flesh eating didn't even begin until many centuries later.

But even if we were to set aside the Bible for the moment and just look at this logically, answer this question please. Do you believe a good and loving God would create animals with the ability to enjoy life, experience various feelings, form families and friendships, feel pain and suffering and fear… if they were meant to be food?

In other words, if God were to design food, do you really believe a good and perfect God would design food with the ability to feel terror and fear and pain and suffering? Yes or no?

And yet thousands of Carnivore animals exist. Where did they come from?

The world changed after the fall. Everything became more and more violent. There is also a very controversial part of this that I rarely bring up, but it has to do with what the bible briefly talks about in Genesis 6 and that is also written about in extra-biblical texts, like the book of Enoch and others. But I think that would be "too much" for most here, since it's even controversial among Christians.

Did God make everything or not? And if yes then in fact he made carnivores to eat other animals which of course makes sense since nature is a balancing act of what eats what.

No, again, IN THE BEGINNING things were very, very different than they are now. That is not even debatable among Christians, or at least among Christians who read and study the bible.

God did not create the world the way is is now. It BECAME that way over time, because this is a fallen world.

I ask you a question are all animals made by god yes or no?

He can't answer because it destroys his entire deluded life

 

[RetiredGySgt]

What We Owe a Rabbit | Thomas Nagel

Christine Korsgaard is a distinguished philosopher who has taught at Harvard for most of her career. Though not known to the general public, she is eminent within the field for her penetrating and analytically dense writings on ethical theory and her critical interpretations of the works of...

getpocket.com

The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.

Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth

Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.

Pigs can speak, do math, and talk! Wow. Let's hear them!

Pigs don't have to do any of those things, they are still sentient being who can think, feel, and they are just as smart or even smarter than your dog.

The point, which you either ignored or didn't grasp, was that they are not the same as a carrot, which does not have a brain or the ability to feel pain and suffer.

Don't tell me you're another one who is equating a vegetable with sentient, intelligent animals?

So you know for a fact plants don't feel?

Plants don't have a brain or a central nervous system. But we are not talking about a house plant. We are talking about plant-based FOOD that God created for us to eat. God created foods like fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, grains, legumes, etc. for the specific purpose of being food.

So do you really think a good God would create an apple or banana that is designed to be food with the ability to feel pain? Yes or no?

He specifically made animals as food too.

No, He did not. Read Genesis 1 and 2. It is very clear that in the beginning God created both humans AND animals to be herbivores and there was peace and harmony in the pre-fall world.

Also, In Genesis 2, it is clear that they were not created for the purpose of being food. Flesh eating didn't even begin until many centuries later.

But even if we were to set aside the Bible for the moment and just look at this logically, answer this question please. Do you believe a good and loving God would create animals with the ability to enjoy life, experience various feelings, form families and friendships, feel pain and suffering and fear… if they were meant to be food?

In other words, if God were to design food, do you really believe a good and perfect God would design food with the ability to feel terror and fear and pain and suffering? Yes or no?

So in your demented world God did not create lions and tigers. Kid you are literally rewriting the bible to fit your schizzo ideas

You either believe that God created animals with jaws clearly designed to rip flesh apart or he did not.

I doubt if you can even see how crazy you are

Ok, now it's starting to become clear that you are simply dishonest. I am NOT re-writing the bible. All the points I made about the pre-fall world and the original intent are clear in scripture, they are right there in black and white, if you were to take a few minutes to read it.

So, if you are going to be dishonest, I no longer want to discuss this or anything with you. Thanks.

You are rewriting the bible so that God did not create lions tigers and wolves..............................

Kid you were done before you began

All are

I never said that. I have no interest in talking to dishonest people, so feel free to post to someone else.

I asked you a question answer it.

 

[esalla]

What We Owe a Rabbit | Thomas Nagel

Christine Korsgaard is a distinguished philosopher who has taught at Harvard for most of her career. Though not known to the general public, she is eminent within the field for her penetrating and analytically dense writings on ethical theory and her critical interpretations of the works of...

getpocket.com

The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.

Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth

Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.

Pigs can speak, do math, and talk! Wow. Let's hear them!

Pigs don't have to do any of those things, they are still sentient being who can think, feel, and they are just as smart or even smarter than your dog.

The point, which you either ignored or didn't grasp, was that they are not the same as a carrot, which does not have a brain or the ability to feel pain and suffer.

Don't tell me you're another one who is equating a vegetable with sentient, intelligent animals?

So you know for a fact plants don't feel?

Plants don't have a brain or a central nervous system. But we are not talking about a house plant. We are talking about plant-based FOOD that God created for us to eat. God created foods like fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, grains, legumes, etc. for the specific purpose of being food.

So do you really think a good God would create an apple or banana that is designed to be food with the ability to feel pain? Yes or no?

He specifically made animals as food too.

No, He did not. Read Genesis 1 and 2. It is very clear that in the beginning God created both humans AND animals to be herbivores and there was peace and harmony in the pre-fall world.

Also, In Genesis 2, it is clear that they were not created for the purpose of being food. Flesh eating didn't even begin until many centuries later.

But even if we were to set aside the Bible for the moment and just look at this logically, answer this question please. Do you believe a good and loving God would create animals with the ability to enjoy life, experience various feelings, form families and friendships, feel pain and suffering and fear… if they were meant to be food?

In other words, if God were to design food, do you really believe a good and perfect God would design food with the ability to feel terror and fear and pain and suffering? Yes or no?

So in your demented world God did not create lions and tigers. Kid you are literally rewriting the bible to fit your schizzo ideas

You either believe that God created animals with jaws clearly designed to rip flesh apart or he did not.

I doubt if you can even see how crazy you are

Ok, now it's starting to become clear that you are simply dishonest. I am NOT re-writing the bible. All the points I made about the pre-fall world and the original intent are clear in scripture, they are right there in black and white, if you were to take a few minutes to read it.

So, if you are going to be dishonest, I no longer want to discuss this or anything with you. Thanks.

You are rewriting the bible so that God did not create lions tigers and wolves..............................

Kid you were done before you began

All are

I never said that. I have no interest in talking to dishonest people, so feel free to post to someone else.

You do not determine what I do, or do you want to meat my little friend

You are rewriting the bible so that God did not create lions tigers and wolves..............................

Kid you were done before you began

All are

 

[esalla]

What We Owe a Rabbit | Thomas Nagel

Christine Korsgaard is a distinguished philosopher who has taught at Harvard for most of her career. Though not known to the general public, she is eminent within the field for her penetrating and analytically dense writings on ethical theory and her critical interpretations of the works of...

getpocket.com

The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.

Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth

Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.

Pigs can speak, do math, and talk! Wow. Let's hear them!

Pigs don't have to do any of those things, they are still sentient being who can think, feel, and they are just as smart or even smarter than your dog.

The point, which you either ignored or didn't grasp, was that they are not the same as a carrot, which does not have a brain or the ability to feel pain and suffer.

Don't tell me you're another one who is equating a vegetable with sentient, intelligent animals?

So you know for a fact plants don't feel?

Plants don't have a brain or a central nervous system. But we are not talking about a house plant. We are talking about plant-based FOOD that God created for us to eat. God created foods like fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, grains, legumes, etc. for the specific purpose of being food.

So do you really think a good God would create an apple or banana that is designed to be food with the ability to feel pain? Yes or no?

He specifically made animals as food too.

No, He did not. Read Genesis 1 and 2. It is very clear that in the beginning God created both humans AND animals to be herbivores and there was peace and harmony in the pre-fall world.

Also, In Genesis 2, it is clear that they were not created for the purpose of being food. Flesh eating didn't even begin until many centuries later.

But even if we were to set aside the Bible for the moment and just look at this logically, answer this question please. Do you believe a good and loving God would create animals with the ability to enjoy life, experience various feelings, form families and friendships, feel pain and suffering and fear… if they were meant to be food?

In other words, if God were to design food, do you really believe a good and perfect God would design food with the ability to feel terror and fear and pain and suffering? Yes or no?

So in your demented world God did not create lions and tigers. Kid you are literally rewriting the bible to fit your schizzo ideas

You either believe that God created animals with jaws clearly designed to rip flesh apart or he did not.

I doubt if you can even see how crazy you are

Ok, now it's starting to become clear that you are simply dishonest. I am NOT re-writing the bible. All the points I made about the pre-fall world and the original intent are clear in scripture, they are right there in black and white, if you were to take a few minutes to read it.

So, if you are going to be dishonest, I no longer want to discuss this or anything with you. Thanks.

You are rewriting the bible so that God did not create lions tigers and wolves..............................

Kid you were done before you began

All are

I never said that. I have no interest in talking to dishonest people, so feel free to post to someone else.

I asked you a question answer it.

Now he will tell you to talk to someone else as he is destroyed

 

[buttercup]

What We Owe a Rabbit | Thomas Nagel

Christine Korsgaard is a distinguished philosopher who has taught at Harvard for most of her career. Though not known to the general public, she is eminent within the field for her penetrating and analytically dense writings on ethical theory and her critical interpretations of the works of...

getpocket.com

The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.

Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth

Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.

Pigs can speak, do math, and talk! Wow. Let's hear them!

Pigs don't have to do any of those things, they are still sentient being who can think, feel, and they are just as smart or even smarter than your dog.

The point, which you either ignored or didn't grasp, was that they are not the same as a carrot, which does not have a brain or the ability to feel pain and suffer.

Don't tell me you're another one who is equating a vegetable with sentient, intelligent animals?

So you know for a fact plants don't feel?

Plants don't have a brain or a central nervous system. But we are not talking about a house plant. We are talking about plant-based FOOD that God created for us to eat. God created foods like fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, grains, legumes, etc. for the specific purpose of being food.

So do you really think a good God would create an apple or banana that is designed to be food with the ability to feel pain? Yes or no?

He specifically made animals as food too.

No, He did not. Read Genesis 1 and 2. It is very clear that in the beginning God created both humans AND animals to be herbivores and there was peace and harmony in the pre-fall world.

Also, In Genesis 2, it is clear that they were not created for the purpose of being food. Flesh eating didn't even begin until many centuries later.

But even if we were to set aside the Bible for the moment and just look at this logically, answer this question please. Do you believe a good and loving God would create animals with the ability to enjoy life, experience various feelings, form families and friendships, feel pain and suffering and fear… if they were meant to be food?

In other words, if God were to design food, do you really believe a good and perfect God would design food with the ability to feel terror and fear and pain and suffering? Yes or no?

And yet thousands of Carnivore animals exist. Where did they come from?

The world changed after the fall. Everything became more and more violent. There is also a very controversial part of this that I rarely bring up, but it has to do with what the bible briefly talks about in Genesis 6 and that is also written about in extra-biblical texts, like the book of Enoch and others. But I think that would be "too much" for most here, since it's even controversial among Christians.

Did God make everything or not? And if yes then in fact he made carnivores to eat other animals which of course makes sense since nature is a balancing act of what eats what.

No, again, IN THE BEGINNING things were very, very different than they are now. That is not even debatable among Christians, or at least among Christians who read and study the bible.

God did not create the world the way is is now. It BECAME that way over time, because this is a fallen world.

I ask you a question are all animals made by god yes or no?

We've gone over this numerous times, you are not grasping what I've been saying, apparently.

OF COURSE God created the animals, but AGAIN, in the beginning, we were ALL herbivores, and there was peace and harmony among all creation. THAT is God's design and intent. This is clear in Genesis 1:29-30.

Now let me ask you something, are you denying Genesis 1:29-30?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

What We Owe a Rabbit | Thomas Nagel

Christine Korsgaard is a distinguished philosopher who has taught at Harvard for most of her career. Though not known to the general public, she is eminent within the field for her penetrating and analytically dense writings on ethical theory and her critical interpretations of the works of...

getpocket.com

The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.

Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth

Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.

Pigs can speak, do math, and talk! Wow. Let's hear them!

Pigs don't have to do any of those things, they are still sentient being who can think, feel, and they are just as smart or even smarter than your dog.

The point, which you either ignored or didn't grasp, was that they are not the same as a carrot, which does not have a brain or the ability to feel pain and suffer.

Don't tell me you're another one who is equating a vegetable with sentient, intelligent animals?

So you know for a fact plants don't feel?

Plants don't have a brain or a central nervous system. But we are not talking about a house plant. We are talking about plant-based FOOD that God created for us to eat. God created foods like fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, grains, legumes, etc. for the specific purpose of being food.

So do you really think a good God would create an apple or banana that is designed to be food with the ability to feel pain? Yes or no?

He specifically made animals as food too.

No, He did not. Read Genesis 1 and 2. It is very clear that in the beginning God created both humans AND animals to be herbivores and there was peace and harmony in the pre-fall world.

Also, In Genesis 2, it is clear that they were not created for the purpose of being food. Flesh eating didn't even begin until many centuries later.

But even if we were to set aside the Bible for the moment and just look at this logically, answer this question please. Do you believe a good and loving God would create animals with the ability to enjoy life, experience various feelings, form families and friendships, feel pain and suffering and fear… if they were meant to be food?

In other words, if God were to design food, do you really believe a good and perfect God would design food with the ability to feel terror and fear and pain and suffering? Yes or no?

And yet thousands of Carnivore animals exist. Where did they come from?

The world changed after the fall. Everything became more and more violent. There is also a very controversial part of this that I rarely bring up, but it has to do with what the bible briefly talks about in Genesis 6 and that is also written about in extra-biblical texts, like the book of Enoch and others. But I think that would be "too much" for most here, since it's even controversial among Christians.

Did God make everything or not? And if yes then in fact he made carnivores to eat other animals which of course makes sense since nature is a balancing act of what eats what.

No, again, IN THE BEGINNING things were very, very different than they are now. That is not even debatable among Christians, or at least among Christians who read and study the bible.

God did not create the world the way is is now. It BECAME that way over time, because this is a fallen world.

I ask you a question are all animals made by god yes or no?

We've gone over this numerous times, you are not grasping what I've been saying, apparently.

OF COURSE God created the animals, but AGAIN, in the beginning, we were ALL herbivores, and there was peace and harmony among all creation. THAT is God's design and intent. This is clear in Genesis 1:29-30.

Now let me ask you something, are you denying Genesis 1:29-30?

You are denying that god did in fact create carnivores designed specifically to KILL other animals. You claimed God would not do that. God also demanded sacrifices of animals. That to is in genesis and why would God do that if he was all against animals being killed? Then explain how Nature would work if NO animal ate other animals? How long before over population resulted in mass starvation and suffering?

 

[esalla]

What We Owe a Rabbit | Thomas Nagel

Christine Korsgaard is a distinguished philosopher who has taught at Harvard for most of her career. Though not known to the general public, she is eminent within the field for her penetrating and analytically dense writings on ethical theory and her critical interpretations of the works of...

getpocket.com

The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.

Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth

Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.

Pigs can speak, do math, and talk! Wow. Let's hear them!

Pigs don't have to do any of those things, they are still sentient being who can think, feel, and they are just as smart or even smarter than your dog.

The point, which you either ignored or didn't grasp, was that they are not the same as a carrot, which does not have a brain or the ability to feel pain and suffer.

Don't tell me you're another one who is equating a vegetable with sentient, intelligent animals?

So you know for a fact plants don't feel?

Plants don't have a brain or a central nervous system. But we are not talking about a house plant. We are talking about plant-based FOOD that God created for us to eat. God created foods like fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, grains, legumes, etc. for the specific purpose of being food.

So do you really think a good God would create an apple or banana that is designed to be food with the ability to feel pain? Yes or no?

He specifically made animals as food too.

No, He did not. Read Genesis 1 and 2. It is very clear that in the beginning God created both humans AND animals to be herbivores and there was peace and harmony in the pre-fall world.

Also, In Genesis 2, it is clear that they were not created for the purpose of being food. Flesh eating didn't even begin until many centuries later.

But even if we were to set aside the Bible for the moment and just look at this logically, answer this question please. Do you believe a good and loving God would create animals with the ability to enjoy life, experience various feelings, form families and friendships, feel pain and suffering and fear… if they were meant to be food?

In other words, if God were to design food, do you really believe a good and perfect God would design food with the ability to feel terror and fear and pain and suffering? Yes or no?

And yet thousands of Carnivore animals exist. Where did they come from?

The world changed after the fall. Everything became more and more violent. There is also a very controversial part of this that I rarely bring up, but it has to do with what the bible briefly talks about in Genesis 6 and that is also written about in extra-biblical texts, like the book of Enoch and others. But I think that would be "too much" for most here, since it's even controversial among Christians.

Did God make everything or not? And if yes then in fact he made carnivores to eat other animals which of course makes sense since nature is a balancing act of what eats what.

No, again, IN THE BEGINNING things were very, very different than they are now. That is not even debatable among Christians, or at least among Christians who read and study the bible.

God did not create the world the way is is now. It BECAME that way over time, because this is a fallen world.

I ask you a question are all animals made by god yes or no?

We've gone over this numerous times, you are not grasping what I've been saying, apparently.

OF COURSE God created the animals, but AGAIN, in the beginning, we were ALL herbivores, and there was peace and harmony among all creation. THAT is God's design and intent. This is clear in Genesis 1:29-30.

Now let me ask you something, are you denying Genesis 1:29-30?

So God fucked up and then decided to create carnivores

Kid you are psychotic

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Well Buttercup?

 

[buttercup]

What We Owe a Rabbit | Thomas Nagel

Christine Korsgaard is a distinguished philosopher who has taught at Harvard for most of her career. Though not known to the general public, she is eminent within the field for her penetrating and analytically dense writings on ethical theory and her critical interpretations of the works of...

getpocket.com

The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.

Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth

Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.

Pigs can speak, do math, and talk! Wow. Let's hear them!

Pigs don't have to do any of those things, they are still sentient being who can think, feel, and they are just as smart or even smarter than your dog.

The point, which you either ignored or didn't grasp, was that they are not the same as a carrot, which does not have a brain or the ability to feel pain and suffer.

Don't tell me you're another one who is equating a vegetable with sentient, intelligent animals?

So you know for a fact plants don't feel?

Plants don't have a brain or a central nervous system. But we are not talking about a house plant. We are talking about plant-based FOOD that God created for us to eat. God created foods like fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, grains, legumes, etc. for the specific purpose of being food.

So do you really think a good God would create an apple or banana that is designed to be food with the ability to feel pain? Yes or no?

He specifically made animals as food too.

No, He did not. Read Genesis 1 and 2. It is very clear that in the beginning God created both humans AND animals to be herbivores and there was peace and harmony in the pre-fall world.

Also, In Genesis 2, it is clear that they were not created for the purpose of being food. Flesh eating didn't even begin until many centuries later.

But even if we were to set aside the Bible for the moment and just look at this logically, answer this question please. Do you believe a good and loving God would create animals with the ability to enjoy life, experience various feelings, form families and friendships, feel pain and suffering and fear… if they were meant to be food?

In other words, if God were to design food, do you really believe a good and perfect God would design food with the ability to feel terror and fear and pain and suffering? Yes or no?

And yet thousands of Carnivore animals exist. Where did they come from?

The world changed after the fall. Everything became more and more violent. There is also a very controversial part of this that I rarely bring up, but it has to do with what the bible briefly talks about in Genesis 6 and that is also written about in extra-biblical texts, like the book of Enoch and others. But I think that would be "too much" for most here, since it's even controversial among Christians.

Did God make everything or not? And if yes then in fact he made carnivores to eat other animals which of course makes sense since nature is a balancing act of what eats what.

No, again, IN THE BEGINNING things were very, very different than they are now. That is not even debatable among Christians, or at least among Christians who read and study the bible.

God did not create the world the way is is now. It BECAME that way over time, because this is a fallen world.

I ask you a question are all animals made by god yes or no?

We've gone over this numerous times, you are not grasping what I've been saying, apparently.

OF COURSE God created the animals, but AGAIN, in the beginning, we were ALL herbivores, and there was peace and harmony among all creation. THAT is God's design and intent. This is clear in Genesis 1:29-30.

Now let me ask you something, are you denying Genesis 1:29-30?

You are denying that god did in fact create carnivores designed specifically to KILL other animals. You claimed God would not do that. God also demanded sacrifices of animals. That to is in genesis and why would God do that if he was all against animals being killed? Then explain how Nature would work if NO animal ate other animals? How long before over population resulted in mass starvation and suffering?

Of course God did not create this world to be the way it is now, this is a FALLEN WORLD. Do you not understand that?

Or are you denying the whole concept of the world being fallen? Are you a believer? Because if not, it's fine, I would never expect you to agree with any of this, if you're not even a Christian. But if you are, I'm simply stating what the bible says, which NO Christian I have ever encountered disagrees with!

Also, please answer the question you ignored in my previous post. Do you deny Genesis 1:29-30?

 

[esalla]

What We Owe a Rabbit | Thomas Nagel

Christine Korsgaard is a distinguished philosopher who has taught at Harvard for most of her career. Though not known to the general public, she is eminent within the field for her penetrating and analytically dense writings on ethical theory and her critical interpretations of the works of...

getpocket.com

The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.

Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth

Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.

Pigs can speak, do math, and talk! Wow. Let's hear them!

Pigs don't have to do any of those things, they are still sentient being who can think, feel, and they are just as smart or even smarter than your dog.

The point, which you either ignored or didn't grasp, was that they are not the same as a carrot, which does not have a brain or the ability to feel pain and suffer.

Don't tell me you're another one who is equating a vegetable with sentient, intelligent animals?

So you know for a fact plants don't feel?

Plants don't have a brain or a central nervous system. But we are not talking about a house plant. We are talking about plant-based FOOD that God created for us to eat. God created foods like fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, grains, legumes, etc. for the specific purpose of being food.

So do you really think a good God would create an apple or banana that is designed to be food with the ability to feel pain? Yes or no?

He specifically made animals as food too.

No, He did not. Read Genesis 1 and 2. It is very clear that in the beginning God created both humans AND animals to be herbivores and there was peace and harmony in the pre-fall world.

Also, In Genesis 2, it is clear that they were not created for the purpose of being food. Flesh eating didn't even begin until many centuries later.

But even if we were to set aside the Bible for the moment and just look at this logically, answer this question please. Do you believe a good and loving God would create animals with the ability to enjoy life, experience various feelings, form families and friendships, feel pain and suffering and fear… if they were meant to be food?

In other words, if God were to design food, do you really believe a good and perfect God would design food with the ability to feel terror and fear and pain and suffering? Yes or no?

And yet thousands of Carnivore animals exist. Where did they come from?

The world changed after the fall. Everything became more and more violent. There is also a very controversial part of this that I rarely bring up, but it has to do with what the bible briefly talks about in Genesis 6 and that is also written about in extra-biblical texts, like the book of Enoch and others. But I think that would be "too much" for most here, since it's even controversial among Christians.

Did God make everything or not? And if yes then in fact he made carnivores to eat other animals which of course makes sense since nature is a balancing act of what eats what.

No, again, IN THE BEGINNING things were very, very different than they are now. That is not even debatable among Christians, or at least among Christians who read and study the bible.

God did not create the world the way is is now. It BECAME that way over time, because this is a fallen world.

I ask you a question are all animals made by god yes or no?

We've gone over this numerous times, you are not grasping what I've been saying, apparently.

OF COURSE God created the animals, but AGAIN, in the beginning, we were ALL herbivores, and there was peace and harmony among all creation. THAT is God's design and intent. This is clear in Genesis 1:29-30.

Now let me ask you something, are you denying Genesis 1:29-30?

You are denying that god did in fact create carnivores designed specifically to KILL other animals. You claimed God would not do that. God also demanded sacrifices of animals. That to is in genesis and why would God do that if he was all against animals being killed? Then explain how Nature would work if NO animal ate other animals? How long before over population resulted in mass starvation and suffering?

Of course God did not create this world to be the way it is now, this is a FALLEN WORLD. Do you not understand that?

Or are you denying the whole concept of the world being fallen? Are you a believer? Because if not, it's fine, I would never expect you to agree with any of this, if you're not even a Christian. But if you are, I'm simply stating what the bible says, which NO Christian I have ever encountered disagrees with!

Also, please answer the question you ignored in my previous post. Do you deny Genesis 1:29-30?

So now God did not create lions tigers and wolves

Your brain is fallen

 

[RetiredGySgt]

What We Owe a Rabbit | Thomas Nagel

Christine Korsgaard is a distinguished philosopher who has taught at Harvard for most of her career. Though not known to the general public, she is eminent within the field for her penetrating and analytically dense writings on ethical theory and her critical interpretations of the works of...

getpocket.com

The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.

Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth

Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.

Pigs can speak, do math, and talk! Wow. Let's hear them!

Pigs don't have to do any of those things, they are still sentient being who can think, feel, and they are just as smart or even smarter than your dog.

The point, which you either ignored or didn't grasp, was that they are not the same as a carrot, which does not have a brain or the ability to feel pain and suffer.

Don't tell me you're another one who is equating a vegetable with sentient, intelligent animals?

So you know for a fact plants don't feel?

Plants don't have a brain or a central nervous system. But we are not talking about a house plant. We are talking about plant-based FOOD that God created for us to eat. God created foods like fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, grains, legumes, etc. for the specific purpose of being food.

So do you really think a good God would create an apple or banana that is designed to be food with the ability to feel pain? Yes or no?

He specifically made animals as food too.

No, He did not. Read Genesis 1 and 2. It is very clear that in the beginning God created both humans AND animals to be herbivores and there was peace and harmony in the pre-fall world.

Also, In Genesis 2, it is clear that they were not created for the purpose of being food. Flesh eating didn't even begin until many centuries later.

But even if we were to set aside the Bible for the moment and just look at this logically, answer this question please. Do you believe a good and loving God would create animals with the ability to enjoy life, experience various feelings, form families and friendships, feel pain and suffering and fear… if they were meant to be food?

In other words, if God were to design food, do you really believe a good and perfect God would design food with the ability to feel terror and fear and pain and suffering? Yes or no?

And yet thousands of Carnivore animals exist. Where did they come from?

The world changed after the fall. Everything became more and more violent. There is also a very controversial part of this that I rarely bring up, but it has to do with what the bible briefly talks about in Genesis 6 and that is also written about in extra-biblical texts, like the book of Enoch and others. But I think that would be "too much" for most here, since it's even controversial among Christians.

Did God make everything or not? And if yes then in fact he made carnivores to eat other animals which of course makes sense since nature is a balancing act of what eats what.

No, again, IN THE BEGINNING things were very, very different than they are now. That is not even debatable among Christians, or at least among Christians who read and study the bible.

God did not create the world the way is is now. It BECAME that way over time, because this is a fallen world.

I ask you a question are all animals made by god yes or no?

We've gone over this numerous times, you are not grasping what I've been saying, apparently.

OF COURSE God created the animals, but AGAIN, in the beginning, we were ALL herbivores, and there was peace and harmony among all creation. THAT is God's design and intent. This is clear in Genesis 1:29-30.

Now let me ask you something, are you denying Genesis 1:29-30?

You are denying that god did in fact create carnivores designed specifically to KILL other animals. You claimed God would not do that. God also demanded sacrifices of animals. That to is in genesis and why would God do that if he was all against animals being killed? Then explain how Nature would work if NO animal ate other animals? How long before over population resulted in mass starvation and suffering?

Of course God did not create this world to be the way it is now, this is a FALLEN WORLD. Do you not understand that?

Or are you denying the whole concept of the world being fallen? Are you a believer? Because if not, it's fine, I would never expect you to agree with any of this, if you're not even a Christian. But if you are, I'm simply stating what the bible says, which NO Christian I have ever encountered disagrees with!

Also, please answer the question you ignored in my previous post. Do you deny Genesis 1:29-30?

So you deny god made all the animals? And you claim you are a Christian? GOD made carnivores specifically to keep balance in nature. He made them to EAT other animals. Your pie in the sky claims are simply not right. Please explain why God would demand animal sacrifice if he was this God that would never hurt an animal?

 

[buttercup]

What We Owe a Rabbit | Thomas Nagel

Christine Korsgaard is a distinguished philosopher who has taught at Harvard for most of her career. Though not known to the general public, she is eminent within the field for her penetrating and analytically dense writings on ethical theory and her critical interpretations of the works of...

getpocket.com

The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.

Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth

Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.

Pigs can speak, do math, and talk! Wow. Let's hear them!

Pigs don't have to do any of those things, they are still sentient being who can think, feel, and they are just as smart or even smarter than your dog.

The point, which you either ignored or didn't grasp, was that they are not the same as a carrot, which does not have a brain or the ability to feel pain and suffer.

Don't tell me you're another one who is equating a vegetable with sentient, intelligent animals?

So you know for a fact plants don't feel?

Plants don't have a brain or a central nervous system. But we are not talking about a house plant. We are talking about plant-based FOOD that God created for us to eat. God created foods like fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, grains, legumes, etc. for the specific purpose of being food.

So do you really think a good God would create an apple or banana that is designed to be food with the ability to feel pain? Yes or no?

He specifically made animals as food too.

No, He did not. Read Genesis 1 and 2. It is very clear that in the beginning God created both humans AND animals to be herbivores and there was peace and harmony in the pre-fall world.

Also, In Genesis 2, it is clear that they were not created for the purpose of being food. Flesh eating didn't even begin until many centuries later.

But even if we were to set aside the Bible for the moment and just look at this logically, answer this question please. Do you believe a good and loving God would create animals with the ability to enjoy life, experience various feelings, form families and friendships, feel pain and suffering and fear… if they were meant to be food?

In other words, if God were to design food, do you really believe a good and perfect God would design food with the ability to feel terror and fear and pain and suffering? Yes or no?

And yet thousands of Carnivore animals exist. Where did they come from?

The world changed after the fall. Everything became more and more violent. There is also a very controversial part of this that I rarely bring up, but it has to do with what the bible briefly talks about in Genesis 6 and that is also written about in extra-biblical texts, like the book of Enoch and others. But I think that would be "too much" for most here, since it's even controversial among Christians.

Did God make everything or not? And if yes then in fact he made carnivores to eat other animals which of course makes sense since nature is a balancing act of what eats what.

No, again, IN THE BEGINNING things were very, very different than they are now. That is not even debatable among Christians, or at least among Christians who read and study the bible.

God did not create the world the way is is now. It BECAME that way over time, because this is a fallen world.

I ask you a question are all animals made by god yes or no?

We've gone over this numerous times, you are not grasping what I've been saying, apparently.

OF COURSE God created the animals, but AGAIN, in the beginning, we were ALL herbivores, and there was peace and harmony among all creation. THAT is God's design and intent. This is clear in Genesis 1:29-30.

Now let me ask you something, are you denying Genesis 1:29-30?

You are denying that god did in fact create carnivores designed specifically to KILL other animals. You claimed God would not do that. God also demanded sacrifices of animals. That to is in genesis and why would God do that if he was all against animals being killed? Then explain how Nature would work if NO animal ate other animals? How long before over population resulted in mass starvation and suffering?

Of course God did not create this world to be the way it is now, this is a FALLEN WORLD. Do you not understand that?

Or are you denying the whole concept of the world being fallen? Are you a believer? Because if not, it's fine, I would never expect you to agree with any of this, if you're not even a Christian. But if you are, I'm simply stating what the bible says, which NO Christian I have ever encountered disagrees with!

Also, please answer the question you ignored in my previous post. Do you deny Genesis 1:29-30?

So you deny god made all the animals? And you claim you are a Christian? GOD made carnivores specifically to keep balance in nature. He made them to EAT other animals. Your pie in the sky claims are simply not right. Please explain why God would demand animal sacrifice if he was this God that would never hurt an animal?

No, for the 10th time, God created ALL of us, and God created ALL of us, humans AND animals, as herbivores.

Now, you keep ignoring my questions to you, while asking me the same question over and over that I have answered countless times.

So, AGAIN, are you denying this is a fallen world? Are you denying what it says in Genesis 1:29-30? Yes or no?

 

[esalla]

What We Owe a Rabbit | Thomas Nagel

Christine Korsgaard is a distinguished philosopher who has taught at Harvard for most of her career. Though not known to the general public, she is eminent within the field for her penetrating and analytically dense writings on ethical theory and her critical interpretations of the works of...

getpocket.com

The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.

Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth

Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.

Pigs can speak, do math, and talk! Wow. Let's hear them!

Pigs don't have to do any of those things, they are still sentient being who can think, feel, and they are just as smart or even smarter than your dog.

The point, which you either ignored or didn't grasp, was that they are not the same as a carrot, which does not have a brain or the ability to feel pain and suffer.

Don't tell me you're another one who is equating a vegetable with sentient, intelligent animals?

So you know for a fact plants don't feel?

Plants don't have a brain or a central nervous system. But we are not talking about a house plant. We are talking about plant-based FOOD that God created for us to eat. God created foods like fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, grains, legumes, etc. for the specific purpose of being food.

So do you really think a good God would create an apple or banana that is designed to be food with the ability to feel pain? Yes or no?

He specifically made animals as food too.

No, He did not. Read Genesis 1 and 2. It is very clear that in the beginning God created both humans AND animals to be herbivores and there was peace and harmony in the pre-fall world.

Also, In Genesis 2, it is clear that they were not created for the purpose of being food. Flesh eating didn't even begin until many centuries later.

But even if we were to set aside the Bible for the moment and just look at this logically, answer this question please. Do you believe a good and loving God would create animals with the ability to enjoy life, experience various feelings, form families and friendships, feel pain and suffering and fear… if they were meant to be food?

In other words, if God were to design food, do you really believe a good and perfect God would design food with the ability to feel terror and fear and pain and suffering? Yes or no?

And yet thousands of Carnivore animals exist. Where did they come from?

The world changed after the fall. Everything became more and more violent. There is also a very controversial part of this that I rarely bring up, but it has to do with what the bible briefly talks about in Genesis 6 and that is also written about in extra-biblical texts, like the book of Enoch and others. But I think that would be "too much" for most here, since it's even controversial among Christians.

Did God make everything or not? And if yes then in fact he made carnivores to eat other animals which of course makes sense since nature is a balancing act of what eats what.

No, again, IN THE BEGINNING things were very, very different than they are now. That is not even debatable among Christians, or at least among Christians who read and study the bible.

God did not create the world the way is is now. It BECAME that way over time, because this is a fallen world.

I ask you a question are all animals made by god yes or no?

We've gone over this numerous times, you are not grasping what I've been saying, apparently.

OF COURSE God created the animals, but AGAIN, in the beginning, we were ALL herbivores, and there was peace and harmony among all creation. THAT is God's design and intent. This is clear in Genesis 1:29-30.

Now let me ask you something, are you denying Genesis 1:29-30?

You are denying that god did in fact create carnivores designed specifically to KILL other animals. You claimed God would not do that. God also demanded sacrifices of animals. That to is in genesis and why would God do that if he was all against animals being killed? Then explain how Nature would work if NO animal ate other animals? How long before over population resulted in mass starvation and suffering?

Of course God did not create this world to be the way it is now, this is a FALLEN WORLD. Do you not understand that?

Or are you denying the whole concept of the world being fallen? Are you a believer? Because if not, it's fine, I would never expect you to agree with any of this, if you're not even a Christian. But if you are, I'm simply stating what the bible says, which NO Christian I have ever encountered disagrees with!

Also, please answer the question you ignored in my previous post. Do you deny Genesis 1:29-30?

So you deny god made all the animals? And you claim you are a Christian? GOD made carnivores specifically to keep balance in nature. He made them to EAT other animals. Your pie in the sky claims are simply not right. Please explain why God would demand animal sacrifice if he was this God that would never hurt an animal?

No, for the 10th time, at least, God created ALL of us, and God created ALL of us to be herbivores.

Now, you keep ignoring my questions to you, while asking me the same question over and over that I have answered countless times.

So, AGAIN, are you denying this is a fallen world? Are you denying what it says in Genesis 1:29-30?

So Satan created the carnivores?

What page of the bible is that on?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

What We Owe a Rabbit | Thomas Nagel

Christine Korsgaard is a distinguished philosopher who has taught at Harvard for most of her career. Though not known to the general public, she is eminent within the field for her penetrating and analytically dense writings on ethical theory and her critical interpretations of the works of...

getpocket.com

The idea that we must stop eating meat is basically unscientific and foolish. We are Omnivores and depend on meat for many of our essential ingredients to survive, vegans and vegetarians must take special care and must do specific things to make up for the lose of meat in their diet. I agree we should not abuse animals but yes we should eat meat and that means harvesting animals. I also agree that we should use them in scientific processes for OUR benefit.

The claim it is morally wrong to kill animals is foolish short sighted and I believe IGNORANT. Every animal that is a meat eater KILLS other animals. And failure to control population would result in massive deaths due to starvation of animals and ruination of Human crops.

Vegetarians are vegetable killers anyway, they just refuse to see the truth

Yeah, because a carrot is just like a pig who is as smart or SMARTER than your dog, and has the cognitive abilities of a 3 year old child.

But I'm pretty sure you were joking and not using that as an argument.

Pigs can speak, do math, and talk! Wow. Let's hear them!

Pigs don't have to do any of those things, they are still sentient being who can think, feel, and they are just as smart or even smarter than your dog.

The point, which you either ignored or didn't grasp, was that they are not the same as a carrot, which does not have a brain or the ability to feel pain and suffer.

Don't tell me you're another one who is equating a vegetable with sentient, intelligent animals?

So you know for a fact plants don't feel?

Plants don't have a brain or a central nervous system. But we are not talking about a house plant. We are talking about plant-based FOOD that God created for us to eat. God created foods like fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, grains, legumes, etc. for the specific purpose of being food.

So do you really think a good God would create an apple or banana that is designed to be food with the ability to feel pain? Yes or no?

He specifically made animals as food too.

No, He did not. Read Genesis 1 and 2. It is very clear that in the beginning God created both humans AND animals to be herbivores and there was peace and harmony in the pre-fall world.

Also, In Genesis 2, it is clear that they were not created for the purpose of being food. Flesh eating didn't even begin until many centuries later.

But even if we were to set aside the Bible for the moment and just look at this logically, answer this question please. Do you believe a good and loving God would create animals with the ability to enjoy life, experience various feelings, form families and friendships, feel pain and suffering and fear… if they were meant to be food?

In other words, if God were to design food, do you really believe a good and perfect God would design food with the ability to feel terror and fear and pain and suffering? Yes or no?

And yet thousands of Carnivore animals exist. Where did they come from?

The world changed after the fall. Everything became more and more violent. There is also a very controversial part of this that I rarely bring up, but it has to do with what the bible briefly talks about in Genesis 6 and that is also written about in extra-biblical texts, like the book of Enoch and others. But I think that would be "too much" for most here, since it's even controversial among Christians.

Did God make everything or not? And if yes then in fact he made carnivores to eat other animals which of course makes sense since nature is a balancing act of what eats what.

No, again, IN THE BEGINNING things were very, very different than they are now. That is not even debatable among Christians, or at least among Christians who read and study the bible.

God did not create the world the way is is now. It BECAME that way over time, because this is a fallen world.

I ask you a question are all animals made by god yes or no?

We've gone over this numerous times, you are not grasping what I've been saying, apparently.

OF COURSE God created the animals, but AGAIN, in the beginning, we were ALL herbivores, and there was peace and harmony among all creation. THAT is God's design and intent. This is clear in Genesis 1:29-30.

Now let me ask you something, are you denying Genesis 1:29-30?

You are denying that god did in fact create carnivores designed specifically to KILL other animals. You claimed God would not do that. God also demanded sacrifices of animals. That to is in genesis and why would God do that if he was all against animals being killed? Then explain how Nature would work if NO animal ate other animals? How long before over population resulted in mass starvation and suffering?

Of course God did not create this world to be the way it is now, this is a FALLEN WORLD. Do you not understand that?

Or are you denying the whole concept of the world being fallen? Are you a believer? Because if not, it's fine, I would never expect you to agree with any of this, if you're not even a Christian. But if you are, I'm simply stating what the bible says, which NO Christian I have ever encountered disagrees with!

Also, please answer the question you ignored in my previous post. Do you deny Genesis 1:29-30?

So you deny god made all the animals? And you claim you are a Christian? GOD made carnivores specifically to keep balance in nature. He made them to EAT other animals. Your pie in the sky claims are simply not right. Please explain why God would demand animal sacrifice if he was this God that would never hurt an animal?

No, for the 10th time, God created ALL of us, and God created ALL of us, humans AND animals as herbivores.

Now, you keep ignoring my questions to you, while asking me the same question over and over that I have answered countless times.

So, AGAIN, are you denying this is a fallen world? Are you denying what it says in Genesis 1:29-30?

If lions and wolves and all the other carnivores were created by god one way what changed them?