As for the famous “separation of church and state,” the phrase appears in no federal document. In fact, at the time of ratification of the Constitution, ten of the thirteen colonies had some provision recognizing Christianity as either the official, or the recommended religion in their state constitutions.
Dishonest argument to say the least, the concept predates the Constitution and was the guiding principle behind the Establishment Clause. The three colonies which did not have an established religion (PA, RI, NY) are the ones which pushed for that section of the Bill of Rights in the first place.
Founders intention was to be sure that the federal government didn’t do the same, and mandate a national religion. And when Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists in 1802, it was to reassure them the federal government could not interfere in their religious observations, i.e., there is “a wall of separation between church and state.” He wasn’t speaking of religion contaminating the government, but of the government contaminating religious observance.
Wrong. It religion contaminating government was EXACTLY what he was talking about. When religion contaminates government, free exercise of religion is compromised. Jefferson had little to no respect for those who tried to mix political aspirations with espoused piety.
You are probably relying heavily on David Barton and Wallbuilders for your info. Be warned. They engage in terrible scholarship and make stuff up frequently.
It certainly was never intended to mean a cleansing of every slight indication that religion exists from public settings.
Actually it means to embrace all religions as opposed to a specific faith. Inclusiveness is considered the guiding principle. As long as it doesn't encourage sectarianism, it will be OK. Perry's involvement with that prayer group 2 weeks ago was blatantly discriminatory and sectarian in nature. So it was not comparable to the National Prayer days the WH has.
"Dishonest argument to say the least, ..."
The clearest indication of one's lack of both education and civility is the leap to ad hominem statements, such as the above.
It is also the clearest indication as to which side of the aisle one habituates.
No, my intemperate friend, you are mistaken in every aspect of your post.
Here is the tutorial you so clearly require:
1. In the colony of
Virginia, preaching was illegal without a state license. Baptists were regularly arrested and fined. Quakers were outlawed, as were Catholics.
Freedom of religion was restricted by government statute.
a. Maryland became a land of exile for a variety of Christian groups since Virginia
enforced conformity to the Church of England.
b. Presbyterian preachers moved into Virginia and became a challenge to Anglican dominance, and grew vindictive toward the dissenting competitors. By the early 1760Â’s, there was a reluctant acceptance- but it
turned on the Baptists.
2.
Massachusetts and Connecticut established the Congregationalist (Puritan) church by law, whereas many of the mid-Atlantic and southern colonies made the
Anglican Church their official denomination.
a.
In Puritan New England, Anglicans, Baptists, Quakers, and Catholics were unwelcomeÂ….Rhode Island became a haven for outcasts and refugees fleeing Puritan justice.
b. ‘Rhode Islandism’ became synonymous with religious disorder. John Adam’s diary, December 29, 1765.
3. By the time of the Civil War, Baptists, along with Methodists, would be two of the largest Protestant denominations in America.
4.
By any estimation, most of the early colonies did not embrace religious freedom! Madison and Jefferson were two of the Enlightenment liberals who rallied to the
cause of the persecuted Baptists, and with evangelicals and others,
supported disestablishment. This means that they wished to allow any religions denominations....not only state-sanctioned religion.
a. In 1771, a writer calling himself ‘Timoleon,’ in Purdie & Dixon’s Virginia Gazette,
argued that dissenters should have protection under English law, and he argued that multiple denominations made Virginia society healthier: “Liberty of conscience is the sacred property of every man.” To take it away makes one a tyrant.
5. In early 1776, as the colonies began to organize independent government, they began to think of statements of basic liberties, and Madison helped craft
the Virginia Declaration of Rights, which became the impetus for shedding the establishment of a faith, and the tradition of persecution.
a. George Mason has proposed that the Declaration provide full toleration for dissenters, but
Madison would settle for nothing less than “free exercise of religion” for all.
b. At this time
most of VirginiaÂ’s leaders still wanted an Anglican [to be called the Episcopal Church after independence] establishment along with the free exercise of religion. P.53, "God of Liberty," by Thomas S. Kidd
c. Jefferson explained that “at the time of the revolution, most had become dissenters from the established church but
still had to pay contributions to support the pastors of the minority.” “Thomas Jefferson Autobiography,” Ford (ed.), p. 52.
6. The movement or religious liberty would succeed in American because evangelicals, rationalists, and deists fought for it together.
a. Although Madison was a fervent Anglican during the early years of the Revolution, he drifted toward deism or Unitarianism later in life. Jefferson was very skeptical about the Bible and traditional doctrines such as that of the Trinity.
Covered more fully in Kidd's "God of Liberty," chapter two.
In summary, pre-Constitution, the religion that one was allowed was largely based on where one lived.
Madison and Jefferson worked mightily to support dissenters, those who wished to follow religions other than locally established. But neither found religion to be other than a benefit to the nation.
And neither would remove religion from the public discourse.
Wise up.
Grow up.
