AND THE GOVERNMENT LIES AND SAYS THE ECONOMY IS IMPROVING. Ha!

[Neubarth]

The Fed today ballyhooed the manufacturing improvement. The reality is that manufacturing has improved less than two percent in the past twelve months. That is less then the rate of inflation, so is no improvement, but a minor decrease in net effective numbers. When one considers that Manufacturing is less than ten percent of the economy and that the Service Sector Economy is seven times more powerful than manufacturing and that we are seeing two million a month file for Unemployment Insurance, you will quickly realize that the economy is rapidly tanking. The government does lie to us when the government thinks it is in our best interests to be deceived. They have been lying to us regularly since February.

Our economy is not improving. It continues to collapse.

 

[sealybobo]

The Fed today ballyhooed the manufacturing improvement. The reality is that manufacturing has improved less than two percent in the past twelve months. That is less then the rate of inflation, so is no improvement, but a minor decrease in net effective numbers. When one considers that Manufacturing is less than ten percent of the economy and that the Service Sector Economy is seven times more powerful than manufacturing and that we are seeing two million a month file for Unemployment Insurance, you will quickly realize that the economy is rapidly tanking. The government does lie to us when the government thinks it is in our best interests to be deceived. They have been lying to us regularly since February.

Our economy is not improving. It continues to collapse.

Are you a republicans or democrat?

If you are a GOP'er, then why didn't you argue the same back in 2003-2006 the same way you are now? We told you the economy wasn't good because wages were going down and unemployment was going up. Are you now interested in dealing with wages and unemployment? Because we are too. Not just corporate profits and the DOW.

We agree that things aren't getting better fast enough. But do we agree on what should be done? Are you truly interested in improving wages & unemployment?

Lets stop employers from hiring illegals. Send them to jail if caught.

Fix the VISA problem where American companies ask for impossible credentials when they look for American workers, but lower their standards when they then look for foreign visa workers. This happens mostly with indian IT programmers. Most of you don't have a clue this is going on. The liberal media, hah!

Outsourcing to India

Hiring illegal immigrants which lowers wages.

Fix Nafta

Close tax break loopholes that give tax breaks to companies that outsource overseas, (created by the GOP between 2002 and 2006).

 

[uscitizen]

The golden age of America is over. At least for a couple of decades even if we start doing the right things now.
Yeah we will technically climb out of the recession, soon technically. Many will be in a functional recession for perhaps 5 years.
Perhaps our real economy will get back to 75% of where we were in 5-10 years.
We have been doing the wrong things too big for too long to fix in any hurry

 

[sealybobo]

The golden age of America is over. At least for a couple of decades even if we start doing the right things now.
Yeah we will technically climb out of the recession, soon technically. Many will be in a functional recession for perhaps 5 years.
Perhaps our real economy will get back to 75% of where we were in 5-10 years.
We have been doing the wrong things too big for too long to fix in any hurry

You might be right.

I bought my home in the mid 1990's so I'll be ok on that. I owe $30K for my condo and I can sell for $60K. Used to be worth $100K but still not a loss.

And I have been putting money into my 401K for 15 years so maybe I'll be ok on that.

And my parents were in unions so I may get a decent inheritance.

But what about the younger kids who's parents won't die with shit and who's 401K's are lame and the people who bought homes for $200K but they are only worth $100K.

Those people are fucked. Most of them will be wiped out with one healthcare charge.

 

[Maple]

The Fed today ballyhooed the manufacturing improvement. The reality is that manufacturing has improved less than two percent in the past twelve months. That is less then the rate of inflation, so is no improvement, but a minor decrease in net effective numbers. When one considers that Manufacturing is less than ten percent of the economy and that the Service Sector Economy is seven times more powerful than manufacturing and that we are seeing two million a month file for Unemployment Insurance, you will quickly realize that the economy is rapidly tanking. The government does lie to us when the government thinks it is in our best interests to be deceived. They have been lying to us regularly since February.

Our economy is not improving. It continues to collapse.

Are you a republicans or democrat?

If you are a GOP'er, then why didn't you argue the same back in 2003-2006 the same way you are now? We told you the economy wasn't good because wages were going down and unemployment was going up. Are you now interested in dealing with wages and unemployment? Because we are too. Not just corporate profits and the DOW.

We agree that things aren't getting better fast enough. But do we agree on what should be done? Are you truly interested in improving wages & unemployment?

Lets stop employers from hiring illegals. Send them to jail if caught.

Fix the VISA problem where American companies ask for impossible credentials when they look for American workers, but lower their standards when they then look for foreign visa workers. This happens mostly with indian IT programmers. Most of you don't have a clue this is going on. The liberal media, hah!

Outsourcing to India

Hiring illegal immigrants which lowers wages.

Fix Nafta

Close tax break loopholes that give tax breaks to companies that outsource overseas, (created by the GOP between 2002 and 2006).

The dems voted down a card check which was a quick link to for employers to find out if an employee was a legal immigrant.

As far as jobs going to India, when you have the 2nd highest corporate income tax in the World you don't need to wonder too long about why companies go overseas and take their business's with them.

BTW I would love to have 2003-2006 back, pretty good years as far as unemployment went and when you consider that this was shortly after 9-11 it was miraculous that those years were good. I miss Bush.

 

[Limey]

As far as jobs going to India, when you have the 2nd highest corporate income tax in the World you don't need to wonder too long about why companies go overseas and take their business's with them.

Capital mobility, with outsourcing that goes with it, is a natural aspect of globalisation. The only dilemma is our understanding of the multinational firm. A left wing view will typically refer to how this mobility is used to weaken both the nation state and the power of the trade unionist. It becomes a 'race to the bottom' scenario, with inter-country competition used to enforce irrational 'free market' economic policies. A more orthodox view will instead adapt classical economics and refer to how this is about maximising economic opportunities. Everyone is a winner: the firm secures greater profit, the economy is able to shift resources towards areas where it has a comparative advantage (reducing the need for low skilled labour). The attack on outsourcing is then merely a more modern version of mercantilism: i.e. economic nationalism.

 

[Neubarth]

The Fed today ballyhooed the manufacturing improvement. The reality is that manufacturing has improved less than two percent in the past twelve months. That is less then the rate of inflation, so is no improvement, but a minor decrease in net effective numbers. When one considers that Manufacturing is less than ten percent of the economy and that the Service Sector Economy is seven times more powerful than manufacturing and that we are seeing two million a month file for Unemployment Insurance, you will quickly realize that the economy is rapidly tanking. The government does lie to us when the government thinks it is in our best interests to be deceived. They have been lying to us regularly since February.

Our economy is not improving. It continues to collapse.

Are you a republicans or democrat?

If you are a GOP'er, then why didn't you argue the same back in 2003-2006 the same way you are now? We told you the economy wasn't good because wages were going down and unemployment was going up. Are you now interested in dealing with wages and unemployment? Because we are too. Not just corporate profits and the DOW.

We agree that things aren't getting better fast enough. But do we agree on what should be done? Are you truly interested in improving wages & unemployment?

Lets stop employers from hiring illegals. Send them to jail if caught.

Fix the VISA problem where American companies ask for impossible credentials when they look for American workers, but lower their standards when they then look for foreign visa workers. This happens mostly with indian IT programmers. Most of you don't have a clue this is going on. The liberal media, hah!

Outsourcing to India

Hiring illegal immigrants which lowers wages.

Fix Nafta

Close tax break loopholes that give tax breaks to companies that outsource overseas, (created by the GOP between 2002 and 2006).

Sealy, just for your edification I will tell you that I have been a life long Democrat. Having said that, let me add that I vote for the issue and the man. Though I voted for Jimmy Carter when he first ran, I voted for Ronald Reagan when he opposed Jimmy for Carter's second term. I was a naval officer who was actively engaged in the Embassy Rescue Attempt in the Spring of 80 when we waited for four months and finally were told to go in by Presidential Decision in the middle of a fuggin sand storm. A bunch of American boys died in that attempt because Jimmy kept on delaying and delaying an delaying the operation. We told him over and over and over again that we could not delay into the sand storm season, but he did delay and then said to "GO" in the worst sand storm in that region's history. Men who can not make solvent intelligent decisions and be forceful in implementation of those decisions do not get my vote. In that regard, I am neither a Democrat or a Republican.

I would love to form a new political party that only selected men who could carry the banner. I would call it the "Solvent Intelligent Decision & Forceful Implementation Party," but ya gotta know that it would soon be crowded by career politicians who would be useless.

Now, my political registration has no effect on my opinions about government ineffectiveness. Our present government is BIG on dramatics but lacking in real action.

When you have a service sector economy as seventy percent of our economy is, you have got to take action to put people to work. Obama has not done that. Instead he is spreading money around to benefit the Big Banks and is letting the morally illegal behavior of those Big Banks go unpunished or corrected. I personally favor firing squads for all the corrupt managers of Goldman Sachs. They are running the market up with machine trading. When they figure it is high enough, they will take derivative positions that will pay off if the market tanks (And it will as it is not built upon fundamentals), and in the process take all of the hard earned money of ignorant investors all over again.

Damn Goldman to high holy hell anyway!

 

[uscitizen]

The golden age of America is over. At least for a couple of decades even if we start doing the right things now.
Yeah we will technically climb out of the recession, soon technically. Many will be in a functional recession for perhaps 5 years.
Perhaps our real economy will get back to 75% of where we were in 5-10 years.
We have been doing the wrong things too big for too long to fix in any hurry

You might be right.

I bought my home in the mid 1990's so I'll be ok on that. I owe $30K for my condo and I can sell for $60K. Used to be worth $100K but still not a loss.

And I have been putting money into my 401K for 15 years so maybe I'll be ok on that.

And my parents were in unions so I may get a decent inheritance.

But what about the younger kids who's parents won't die with shit and who's 401K's are lame and the people who bought homes for $200K but they are only worth $100K.

Those people are fucked. Most of them will be wiped out with one healthcare charge.

And you forgot about the reverse mortgages designed to ensure no pass on of wealth from working class parents.

 

[Neubarth]

As far as jobs going to India, when you have the 2nd highest corporate income tax in the World you don't need to wonder too long about why companies go overseas and take their business's with them.

Capital mobility, with outsourcing that goes with it, is a natural aspect of globalisation. The only dilemma is our understanding of the multinational firm. A left wing view will typically refer to how this mobility is used to weaken both the nation state and the power of the trade unionist. It becomes a 'race to the bottom' scenario, with inter-country competition used to enforce irrational 'free market' economic policies. A more orthodox view will instead adapt classical economics and refer to how this is about maximising economic opportunities. Everyone is a winner: the firm secures greater profit, the economy is able to shift resources towards areas where it has a comparative advantage (reducing the need for low skilled labour). The attack on outsourcing is then merely a more modern version of mercantilism: i.e. economic nationalism.

Economic nationalism??? Well to that I can add that Global Trade is down fifteen to twenty percent (depending upon which statistics you look at). The world right now is royally screwed. The collapse in Global Trade was so abrupt and the failure of any restoral bespeaks of BAD times ahead for this planet. Not only does our government lie to us but the economic statistics of most of the other countries are fudged. China right now has Two Hundred Million under employed workers. And, they have no solutions on the horizon other than to keep the Yuan lower than the dollar so we will buy from them when our economy revives. Sadly, I have been telling them not to keep their hopes up. Our economic revival is all Smoke and Mirrors.

 

[uscitizen]

The Fed today ballyhooed the manufacturing improvement. The reality is that manufacturing has improved less than two percent in the past twelve months. That is less then the rate of inflation, so is no improvement, but a minor decrease in net effective numbers. When one considers that Manufacturing is less than ten percent of the economy and that the Service Sector Economy is seven times more powerful than manufacturing and that we are seeing two million a month file for Unemployment Insurance, you will quickly realize that the economy is rapidly tanking. The government does lie to us when the government thinks it is in our best interests to be deceived. They have been lying to us regularly since February.

Our economy is not improving. It continues to collapse.

Are you a republicans or democrat?

If you are a GOP'er, then why didn't you argue the same back in 2003-2006 the same way you are now? We told you the economy wasn't good because wages were going down and unemployment was going up. Are you now interested in dealing with wages and unemployment? Because we are too. Not just corporate profits and the DOW.

We agree that things aren't getting better fast enough. But do we agree on what should be done? Are you truly interested in improving wages & unemployment?

Lets stop employers from hiring illegals. Send them to jail if caught.

Fix the VISA problem where American companies ask for impossible credentials when they look for American workers, but lower their standards when they then look for foreign visa workers. This happens mostly with indian IT programmers. Most of you don't have a clue this is going on. The liberal media, hah!

Outsourcing to India

Hiring illegal immigrants which lowers wages.

Fix Nafta

Close tax break loopholes that give tax breaks to companies that outsource overseas, (created by the GOP between 2002 and 2006).

The dems voted down a card check which was a quick link to for employers to find out if an employee was a legal immigrant.

As far as jobs going to India, when you have the 2nd highest corporate income tax in the World you don't need to wonder too long about why companies go overseas and take their business's with them.

BTW I would love to have 2003-2006 back, pretty good years as far as unemployment went and when you consider that this was shortly after 9-11 it was miraculous that those years were good. I miss Bush.

Ohh puhleeze!
We have had a check on new hires for citizen status for many many years. I forget the form number. But it takes 2 different forms of ID, etc...

Forgery and such would defeat any new system as well.
Unless of course you want a big brother database in the sky to check for your legal citizen status?

 

[Limey]

And you forgot about the reverse mortgages designed to ensure no pass on of wealth from working class parents.

Mortgage equity withdrawal is an important revenue source for countries with high poverty rates. Eliminating those rates would also reduce the role of housing tenure (i.e. folk would be less likely to use self-insurance as the rationale behind home ownership)

 

[uscitizen]

And you forgot about the reverse mortgages designed to ensure no pass on of wealth from working class parents.

Mortgage equity withdrawal is an important revenue source for countries with high poverty rates. Eliminating those rates would also reduce the role of housing tenure (i.e. folk would be less likely to use self-insurance as the rationale behind home ownership)

countires with high poverty levels? Like the USA? Home equity in the USA has been used like mad mone spending sources here for years.

 

[Limey]

countires with high poverty levels? Like the USA?

Yep. There's a reasonably clearcut positive relationship between relative poverty rates and home ownership rates.

Home equity in the USA has been used like mad mone spending sources here for years.

I'd agree that equity withdrawal isn't a positive phenomena. However, that reflects the nature of the housing market in general. Demand for home ownership can lead to all sorts of problems, from mortgage pressures to instabilities in the housing market. But the withdrawal, given the problems faced by home owners, becomes quite rational

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

The Fed today ballyhooed the manufacturing improvement. The reality is that manufacturing has improved less than two percent in the past twelve months. That is less then the rate of inflation, so is no improvement, but a minor decrease in net effective numbers. When one considers that Manufacturing is less than ten percent of the economy and that the Service Sector Economy is seven times more powerful than manufacturing and that we are seeing two million a month file for Unemployment Insurance, you will quickly realize that the economy is rapidly tanking. The government does lie to us when the government thinks it is in our best interests to be deceived. They have been lying to us regularly since February.

Our economy is not improving. It continues to collapse.

This reminds me of the claims of jobs being saved and created while unemployment climbs and 100,000's of people lose their job each month.


Sure they created 10,000 government jobs but creating 10,000 jobs while losing 250,000 jobs is NOT a net job increase.

More fuzzy math....maybe obama is reading the "value added" numbers like those naughty climate scientists?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

The Fed today ballyhooed the manufacturing improvement. The reality is that manufacturing has improved less than two percent in the past twelve months. That is less then the rate of inflation, so is no improvement, but a minor decrease in net effective numbers. When one considers that Manufacturing is less than ten percent of the economy and that the Service Sector Economy is seven times more powerful than manufacturing and that we are seeing two million a month file for Unemployment Insurance, you will quickly realize that the economy is rapidly tanking. The government does lie to us when the government thinks it is in our best interests to be deceived. They have been lying to us regularly since February.

Our economy is not improving. It continues to collapse.

Are you a republicans or democrat?

If you are a GOP'er, then why didn't you argue the same back in 2003-2006 the same way you are now? We told you the economy wasn't good because wages were going down and unemployment was going up. Are you now interested in dealing with wages and unemployment? Because we are too. Not just corporate profits and the DOW.

We agree that things aren't getting better fast enough. But do we agree on what should be done? Are you truly interested in improving wages & unemployment?

Lets stop employers from hiring illegals. Send them to jail if caught.

Fix the VISA problem where American companies ask for impossible credentials when they look for American workers, but lower their standards when they then look for foreign visa workers. This happens mostly with indian IT programmers. Most of you don't have a clue this is going on. The liberal media, hah!

Outsourcing to India

Hiring illegal immigrants which lowers wages.

Fix Nafta

Close tax break loopholes that give tax breaks to companies that outsource overseas, (created by the GOP between 2002 and 2006).

You sound like a conservative to me. Are you sealyboo? These statements by you are definately conservative in nature.

Yeah i even included your last comment about what the GOP did, just because the GOP did it does not make it conservative. The GOP is progressive just like the Dems, they are just less obvious about it.

 

[uscitizen]

countires with high poverty levels? Like the USA?

Yep. There's a reasonably clearcut positive relationship between relative poverty rates and home ownership rates.

Home equity in the USA has been used like mad mone spending sources here for years.

I'd agree that equity withdrawal isn't a positive phenomena. However, that reflects the nature of the housing market in general. Demand for home ownership can lead to all sorts of problems, from mortgage pressures to instabilities in the housing market. But the withdrawal, given the problems faced by home owners, becomes quite rational

In the USA much the equity lines of credit were often used for things like new trucks, wide screen TV, boats, etc. Frivilous stuff not necessary stuff.
Withdrawing the equity had been one thing falsely propping up our economy.

 

[JWBooth]

The Government Lies...

That's what they do best and most consistently.

 

[Limey]

Withdrawing the equity had been one thing falsely propping up our economy.

But that is still consistent with the main premise: equity withdrawal is encouraged by income inequality. The problem is then the nature of the US income distribution

 

[uscitizen]

Withdrawing the equity had been one thing falsely propping up our economy.

But that is still consistent with the main premise: equity withdrawal is encouraged by income inequality. The problem is then the nature of the US income distribution

Which was another false economy issue in the USA. The gains in income were all going to the top few percent.
It is the trickle down/suck up economic principles.

Look at average wages in the USA for the last 10 years vs average income.

 

[Limey]

Look at average wages in the USA for the last 10 years vs average income.

Breaking the shackles of the US's low wage/low skills equilibrium isn't going to be an easy task.