Humanity
Gold Member
- Jul 17, 2014
- 5,089
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Oh Phoney, thats EXACTLY what free speech is!
There ARE no boundaries!
Silly person...
...and Democratic?
- Thread starter Challenger
- Start date
Oh Phoney, thats EXACTLY what free speech is!
There ARE no boundaries!
Silly person...
eagle1462010
Diamond Member
- May 17, 2013
- 75,679
- 40,863
- 2,605
Allowing a party to be part of the Gov't which has been in direct War with your country is IDIOTIC...............
No country with any common sense would give any political power and voice in Gov't to it's enemy................
The person who stated Sedition and Treason Laws are at the heart of the matter was SPOT ON.
No country with any common sense would give any political power and voice in Gov't to it's enemy................
The person who stated Sedition and Treason Laws are at the heart of the matter was SPOT ON.
There are no boundaries to Free Speech, as the term is used to denote a Constitutional Right?
Think again.
Beelzebub
VIP Member
- May 6, 2014
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Humanity
Gold Member
- Jul 17, 2014
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Lipush
Gold Member
No, you need to realize it's not about freedom of speech, it's about criminal records and going against the law.
Freedom of speech is not absolute.
Lipush
Gold Member
Most basic human right is living in security.
Lipush
Gold Member
Not "end of story" anything.
Once you go against the basic laws in Israel, claiming "freedom of speech" won't help you.
And for the 100,000 time, it's not about freedom of speech, its about befriending the enemy. Azmi Bshara was found guilty of spying, Hanin Zuabi went and met Hamas leaders.
None of this is about freedom of speech, it's about committing a crime against the state.
So keep repeating yourself, it won't make you more correct.
Humanity
Gold Member
- Jul 17, 2014
- 5,089
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"So keep repeating yourself, it won't make you more correct."... No dear, indeed, you repeating yourself will not make you correct!
Puh-leeze....
Must we go through sophomoric exercises such as yelling "Fire" within a crowded theater, in order to prove the existence of boundaries on Free Speech, both de facto and de jure?
Really?
I haven't had to resort to one since grade school.
Humanity
Gold Member
- Jul 17, 2014
- 5,089
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What's the First Amendment Kondor?
Why IS it the First Amendment?
Could it be because its quite important?
Where, oh where, do you see me portraying the First Amendment or its functionality in a negative light?
Nowhere.
Now, as to whether legitimate boundaries exist on Free Speech...
Save us all the fuss and bother, and concede that there are, indeed, a handful of legitimate boundaries on Free Speech, both de facto and de jure...
On second thought, and upon reflection, you do acknowledge that some limitations exist, yes?
Challenger
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #74
Individual members might allegedly disobey the Knesset Basic Law, but what evidence can you produce to back up your assertion that the Balad party as a whole does this? One of your ex-Presidents is a convicted rapist, and a threat to the security of women everywhere but that's no reason to ban all of Likud from the Knesset (although that sounds like a good idea in any event
) Moshe Katsav - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia but he's just at the tip of an iceburg in that respect List of Israeli public officials convicted of crimes or misdemeanors - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia.Ultimately if you ban political parties because they disagree with you, how can they express themselves politically? If not through the ballot box, then through the bomb and/or bullet? Or is that the Zionist Israeli plan all along, provoke Israeli muslims into violence so they can be expelled, once and for all? Then start on the Christian Israelis..
Does this ring a belll with anyone?
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
,
Lipush
Gold Member
I don't need repeating, only reason I do that is because you don't respond to the point so I have no choice but pointing those up again.
And still both you and Challenger didn't raise one explanation or suitable arguement against my point of going against the constitutional laws.
I wait for you to have a more mature intelligent arguement than the one you offered so far.
So let us stick to the point, if you don't mind
Challenger
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #76
You can never be secure by excluding members of your own society from the political process. We British learned that the hard way, with 30 years of conflict in Northern Ireland.
Lipush
Gold Member
Individual members might allegedly disobey the Knesset Basic Law, but what evidence can you produce to back up your assertion that the Balad party as a whole does this? One of your ex-Presidents is a convicted rapist, and a threat to the security of women everywhere but that's no reason to ban all of Likud from the Knesset (although that sounds like a good idea in any event
Ultimately if you ban political parties because they disagree with you, how can they express themselves politically? If not through the ballot box, then through the bomb and/or bullet? Or is that the Zionist Israeli plan all along, provoke Israeli muslims into violence so they can be expelled, once and for all? Then start on the Christian Israelis..
Does this ring a belll with anyone?
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
,
Ok, now we're getting somewhere, it's about time.
Your argument here is interesting, so let me give you the answer.
In Balad's Party platform, articles 2,3, and 5, it directly goes against Israel as a Jewish state, calling to enforce the idea of "country of all its citizens", and to erase any connection to any religious ethnic groups. It calls to a one state solution, basically, mixed citizenship. THAT's Balad's "I BELIEVE", so called.
Now, let us look at the Knesset Basic law:
Knesset Basic Law Article 7A
A candidates list shall not participate in elections to the Knesset, and a person shall not be a candidate for election to the Knesset, if the goals or actions of the list or the actions of the person, expressly or by implication, include one of the following:
1. Negation of the existence of the State of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state;
2.Incitement to racism;
3.support for armed struggle by a hostile state or a terrorist organization against the State of Israel.
The new bill, "Zoabi law", goes against individuals, not political parties as a unit. But Balad is to be tested by its Charter.
But if a group of people from that same party go against the law, one time after the other, in a way it becomes a pattern, you cannot say it's individulat behavior anymore.
Must a political party go against the law in order to express itself? I believe that issue is rediculous.
Challenger
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #78
Individual members might allegedly disobey the Knesset Basic Law, but what evidence can you produce to back up your assertion that the Balad party as a whole does this? One of your ex-Presidents is a convicted rapist, and a threat to the security of women everywhere but that's no reason to ban all of Likud from the Knesset (although that sounds like a good idea in any event
Ultimately if you ban political parties because they disagree with you, how can they express themselves politically? If not through the ballot box, then through the bomb and/or bullet? Or is that the Zionist Israeli plan all along, provoke Israeli muslims into violence so they can be expelled, once and for all? Then start on the Christian Israelis..
Does this ring a belll with anyone?
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
,
Ok, now we're getting somewhere, it's about time.
Your argument here is interesting, so let me give you the answer.
In Balad's Party platform, articles 2,3, and 5, it directly goes against Israel as a Jewish state, calling to enforce the idea of "country of all its citizens", and to erase any connection to any religious ethnic groups. It calls to a one state solution, basically, mixed citizenship. THAT's Balad's "I BELIEVE", so called.
Now, let us look at the Knesset Basic law:
Knesset Basic Law Article 7A
A candidates list shall not participate in elections to the Knesset, and a person shall not be a candidate for election to the Knesset, if the goals or actions of the list or the actions of the person, expressly or by implication, include one of the following:
1. Negation of the existence of the State of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state;
2.Incitement to racism;
3.support for armed struggle by a hostile state or a terrorist organization against the State of Israel.
The new bill, "Zoabi law", goes against individuals, not political parties as a unit. But Balad is to be tested by its Charter.
But if a group of people from that same party go against the law, one time after the other, in a way it becomes a pattern, you cannot say it's individulat behavior anymore.
Must a political party go against the law in order to express itself? I believe that issue is rediculous.
By all means, on two occasions the Balad party was banned from standing in elections based on this 1985 ammendment to the original 1958 law, and on both occasions this ruling was overturned by the Israeli Supreme Court. Balad has no case to answer according to the Supreme Court of Israel but the Right and Far Right wings in Israeli politics keep trying to ceate new ways to ban them. How you can not see this as a cynical attempt at gerrymandering or at worst voter suppression over 20% of your population?
Challenger
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #79
I would argue that no boundaries exist to free speech, however there are necessary limitations on reckless or malicious speech. Here's a great exposition on the subject;
Somehow, I doubt that Niemoller had in mind, political parties devoted to the destruction of the State, when he served-up that historic quote.
Individual members might allegedly disobey the Knesset Basic Law, but what evidence can you produce to back up your assertion that the Balad party as a whole does this? One of your ex-Presidents is a convicted rapist, and a threat to the security of women everywhere but that's no reason to ban all of Likud from the Knesset (although that sounds like a good idea in any event
Ultimately if you ban political parties because they disagree with you, how can they express themselves politically? If not through the ballot box, then through the bomb and/or bullet? Or is that the Zionist Israeli plan all along, provoke Israeli muslims into violence so they can be expelled, once and for all? Then start on the Christian Israelis..
Does this ring a belll with anyone?
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
,
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