America's Christian Heritage

[Meriweather]

I say teach it as fiction. Do not teach it as truth.

And I say, just teach it as we do with any other story in literature. What is the theme/lesson? Is it best described as history, mythology, folklore, fable, legend or just so literature. Think about it. What other stories in literature do you think teachers need to emphasize, "Oh, by the way, this is fiction." Harry Potter? The Outsiders? How about Holes?

There is no reason to be so fearful.

 

[SweetSue92]

As you know, I am Jewish and don’t believe in Jesus. That said, that was a really stupid and unacceptable thing for the teacher to say. I hope you reported her.

Yes I do know, and yes we did. She is a huge lib and made all over the religions like Islam and Hindu, preaching about tolerance--and then said this to our daughter.

It tracks though, right?

 

[Lisa558]

And I say, just teach it as we do with any other story in literature. What is the theme/lesson? Is it best described as history, mythology, folklore, fable, legend or just so literature. Think about it. What other stories in literature do you think teachers need to emphasize, "Oh, by the way, this is fiction." Harry Potter? The Outsiders? How about Holes?

There is no reason to be so fearful.

The problem is that the majority religion is Christian, and the teachers will not be able to help by interjecting their views - even subtlely.

I took a course on Comparative Religions in my 50s, and the teacher was so biased against Jews that I never returned after the first class. He held Christians up as being moral and superior because, to use his precise analogy, they were trying to rescue Jews from a burning building even though the Jews don’t realize it’s on fire.

I could simply decide not to return to class. What can a 10-year-old child do?

 

[SweetSue92]

The problem is that the majority religion is Christian, and the teachers will not be able to help by interjecting their views - even subtlely.

I took a course on Comparative Religions in my 50s, and the teacher was so biased against Jews that I never returned after the first class. He held Christians up as being moral and superior because, to use his precise analogy, they were trying to rescue Jews from a burning building even though the Jews don’t realize it’s on fire.

I could simply decide not to return to class. What can a 10-year-old child do?

Agree 100%. It's an imbalance of power; the teacher is in an authority position. I do play religious music in my classroom, because it's historically important. I approach each religion as if I have no faith myself--all objective.

(As an aside I do no tiny amount of Jewish/Hebrew music, but the kids are HYPERFOCUSED on the dreidl song. They go nuts for it kindergarten-fifth grade. I repeat: FIFTH GRADE. It's probably easily the worst Chanukah song I teach but here we are every year....we made it out of clay....heh)

 

[Lisa558]

Agree 100%. It's an imbalance of power; the teacher is in an authority position. I do play religious music in my classroom, because it's historically important. I approach each religion as if I have no faith myself--all objective.

(As an aside I do no tiny amount of Jewish/Hebrew music, but the kids are HYPERFOCUSED on the dreidl song. They go nuts for it kindergarten-fifth grade. I repeat: FIFTH GRADE. It's probably easily the worst Chanukah song I teach but here we are every year....we made it out of clay....heh)

I HATE that song!

 

[Meriweather]

Original sin is solely a Christian theology (so far as I know). If it is taught in public schools it would likely have to be taught alongside the theology of all other religions, e.g., the 5 pillars of Islam and Jewish fast for forgiveness (Yom Kippur). I could see it turning into a very confusing time for children and an uncomfortable time for parents. Some things public schools are OK doing, math, reading, etc., religion not so much.

The recent SCOTUS ruling means that parents could just take their children out of school when the theology of other religions is taught so their would be a logistical mess for the schools.

Recall the complaint the story was not to be taught. As I pointed out, nowhere in the story is the term "original sin". The story itself, like most Bible stories, is pure literature. It would be like forbidding the reading of The Magical Imperfect (middle school level) because (gasp) it includes yom kippur.

Confuse children? Nonsense! It's like arguing that teaching World History just confuses children because it includes the histories of Africa, Egypt, Europe, Asia, America all in the same year. Uncomfortable time for parents! Pffft! One of my daughters drew a teacher who was a practicing witch who was very open it and slid related stories into the curriculum. This was a jump start to many great family conversations about our own beliefs--where they were different, where they were similar, where they were the same.

Again, any religion should be able to be offered as an elective in public schools. There are many positive aspects to this.

 

[alang1216]

Recall the complaint the story was not to be taught. As I pointed out, nowhere in the story is the term "original sin". The story itself, like most Bible stories, is pure literature. It would be like forbidding the reading of The Magical Imperfect (middle school level) because (gasp) it includes yom kippur.

Confuse children? Nonsense! It's like arguing that teaching World History just confuses children because it includes the histories of Africa, Egypt, Europe, Asia, America all in the same year. Uncomfortable time for parents! Pffft! One of my daughters drew a teacher who was a practicing witch who was very open it and slid related stories into the curriculum. This was a jump start to many great family conversations about our own beliefs--where they were different, where they were similar, where they were the same.

Again, any religion should be able to be offered as an elective in public schools. There are many positive aspects to this.

I suspect there will be some parents that object to the way the story is taught, however it is taught. Literature, history, science, etc.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Daughter took a class like this in middle school, I wanna say 7th grade. They learned all about Hinduism, Islam, etc. Teacher was preaching inclusivity but my daughter quietly told her (one on one) that she believes there is only one God and Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven. The teacher said, and I quote: "Well, that's a stupid belief".

We had some things to say about that

Does your daughter vote Democrat with nine out of 10 black church going Christians. Or did she vote with the 40 million white evangelical Christians who support the Republican Party and Donald Trump

Your daughter’s teacher should’ve pointed out that her young belief system that the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ is not an inclusive religion.

Our first four presidents, and then some put their fortunes and lives at risk in a large part because they have seen what Christianity was doing and had done to Europe for the previous 1400 hundred years of history

Here is one of Jefferson’s thoughts about exclusionary Christianity

 

[Meriweather]

If we teach the Christian concept of Original Sin, we also need to teach the religions where there is no such thing. Thus, it could be part of a comparative religions course, and at the high school level.

Our kids can’t read. Let’s focus all time on basic academic skills so they can become functioning, self-supporting adults.

What is not being understood is that I am saying the Genesis story about Adam and Eve has no mention of "original sin" and there is no reason that it--and the other examples that I gave that crop up in history and literature--should be hidden away. It's not teaching religious concepts, it's teaching literature and cultural aspects of different societies. You seem to be arguing that it's okay for blurbs on Osiris and Isis to be included in history books, but heaven forbid that the names Adam and Eve crop up anywhere.

The reason some students can't read or do math is because of class sizes--and that ridiculous notion that children of all levels should be in the same class so no one's feelings are hurt. It is appalling how many times I point out to admin that in a class where we are teaching pre-algebra, we have students who can neither add nor subtract! Just like in the English class where we have students who can't read, we are given a shrug and told to just "work with it." You see, putting children in a How to Read class or an Arithmetic class that teaches adding and subtracting would be segregating them, might be considered racist, and would hurt their psyche being separated from their friends who are in pre-algebra. We need school choice! (But that's another topic.)

 

[SweetSue92]

I HATE that song!

I'm telling you. I think we all age out of it at like 12?

I do like the Jewish a cappella groups that remix it though

 

[Meriweather]

I suspect there will be some parents that object to the way the story is taught, however it is taught. Literature, history, science, etc.

Some parents will complain about anything. How do you think we got to the point where students who do not know how to add and subtract are placed in pre-algebra classes, how children who don't even know how to read are in middle school classes--and some are even high school graduates. We have parents who complain children should not have to be outside if the child thinks it is too hot or too cold to be outside--and heaven forbid if a single drop of rain should fall on them. School choice, I say! School choice!!

 

[BreezeWood]

"Well, that's a stupid belief".

As you know, I am Jewish and don’t believe in Jesus. That said, that was a really stupid and unacceptable thing for the teacher to say. I hope you reported her.

who are desert dwellers to criticize anyone for their religious beliefs - will you be sending them to the roman authorities and demand their crucifixion.

 

[BreezeWood]

The story itself, like most Bible stories, is pure literature.

if that were so there would be no discussion -

the desert dwellers excel to disguise the deceit of their religions based on acceptable norms - they themselves long ago have abandoned for their bibles of fiction, forgeries and fallacies.

the true heavenly 1st century events they have contorted completely out of existence.

 

[Meriweather]

The problem is that the majority religion is Christian, and the teachers will not be able to help by interjecting their views - even subtlely.

As a teacher, shall I take that as a slap-in-the-face? Seriously, religion rarely comes up at public schools, and when it does, it is because students introduce it among themselves and it spills over into class. Most often it is quite friendly and interesting. However, I will note that the very few times a specific religion was being twisted to try and get a reaction/tease it was Judaism. When this caught a student off guard, I lent a hand to undo the twist and present the proper Jewish perspective. The student(s) who happened to be of the Jewish faith were always grateful (and voiced it) for the assist. Hopefully, the other munchkins learned something as well. I've also had Muslim students ask to quietly stay in the classroom at lunch during Ramadan and they were fasting. I've never found religion to be much of a problem among the students. It always seems to be the adults who want to make it an issue.

 

[dblack]

Christianity, therefore, reigns without obstacle, by universal consent.

Nope

 

[Grumblenuts]

There is no reason to be so fearful.

“It’s hard to improve on our confessional formula: Scripture has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error for its matter. Baptists did not come up with that statement after Darwin. They came up with it long before.”

Bible authoritative in faith, practice, history and science, Southern prof says - The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary

The Bible’s authority extends to all matters on which it speaks, including history and science, a professor at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary said.

www.sbts.edu

Just ask any witch or Jim Crow victim hanging around.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

“

School choice, I say! School choice!!

As do many who are devoted to the GREAT COMMISSION to bring lost souls into the Body of Christ by restoring American government back to compliance with the original covenant with God known as the Mayflower compact.

 

[Meriweather]

“It’s hard to improve on our confessional formula: Scripture has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error for its matter. Baptists did not come up with that statement after Darwin. They came up with it long before.”

Bible authoritative in faith, practice, history and science, Southern prof says - The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary

The Bible’s authority extends to all matters on which it speaks, including history and science, a professor at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary said.

www.sbts.edu

Just ask any witch or Jim Crow victim hanging around.

Balmy enough?

 

[Grumblenuts]

View attachment 1129961

Balmy enough?

Substituting a milk toast word like "literature" for scripture, aka sacred religious text? Never. But you be you. Continue to disgust me. I beg of thee!

 

[Lisa558]

As a teacher, shall I take that as a slap-in-the-face? Seriously, religion rarely comes up at public schools, and when it does, it is because students introduce it among themselves and it spills over into class. Most often it is quite friendly and interesting. However, I will note that the very few times a specific religion was being twisted to try and get a reaction/tease it was Judaism. When this caught a student off guard, I lent a hand to undo the twist and present the proper Jewish perspective. The student(s) who happened to be of the Jewish faith were always grateful (and voiced it) for the assist. Hopefully, the other munchkins learned something as well. I've also had Muslim students ask to quietly stay in the classroom at lunch during Ramadan and they were fasting. I've never found religion to be much of a problem among the students. It always seems to be the adults who want to make it an issue.

I stick with my original position.

1) It’s a slippery slope to inject religious stories into the curriculum.

2) The majority of our kids are not reading at grade level, have a poor grasp of history, cannot do basic math, and cannot write a grammatically correct sentence. We need to focus all efforts on these basics.

3) I find it hard to believe that religion is not an issue among students. Even 50+ years ago, when I was a student, I had the word “Jew” keyed across my locker more than once. Now, with antisemitism on the rise, there is a tremendous degree of hostility toward Jews in my liberal public school system.

I stay firm. Steer clear of Bible stories. There’s no place for them in our public schools.