American muslims versus French muslims

[WillowTree]

American muslims have generally assimilated into the society and job market. They self identify as being U.S. citizens and take full advantage of all the civil and legal protections and economic / educational opportunities offered them.

French muslims on the other hand, have never been fully allowed to assimilate into French society. They are routinely denied many job and income opportunities afforded the average citizen. Most of the French muslims are relegated to live in ghetto like enclaves which further isolates them. So that today, 2nd and even 3rd generation muslims do not self identify as being French citizens. And therein lies the root of the anger. ......

I beg to differ. We have a Muslim population here and they stay strictly to themselves. They do not assimilate. And, I mean that in the sense that they do not socialize with others.

 

[Pogo]

American muslims have generally assimilated into the society and job market. They self identify as being U.S. citizens and take full advantage of all the civil and legal protections and economic / educational opportunities offered them.

French muslims on the other hand, have never been fully allowed to assimilate into French society. They are routinely denied many job and income opportunities afforded the average citizen. Most of the French muslims are relegated to live in ghetto like enclaves which further isolates them. So that today, 2nd and even 3rd generation muslims do not self identify as being French citizens. And therein lies the root of the anger. ......

Most of the Muslims I've known (assuming that by nationality, since we rarely ever discussed religion) were French. Or at least living in France. I used to live there although it was many years ago. I did see a degree of cultural separation, although I didn't see any particular tension about it. They did seem to have their own sections, though nothing I would call a "ghetto". I ended up interacting with them a lot since broadly they were, I would put it, a social underclass ---- and this meant they would be the best source of information for everyday survival -- where to get cheap eats, where to find a place to stay, contacts to find work. I was vagabonding, so the North Africans I mixed with were other vagabonds, not the professional class.

Whether they're denied work opportunities, I'd have to say that's probably accurate to some degree; although we all worked together I did see at least one occasion where a guy was passed over not for being Muslim, but for being black (I believe that guy was Kenyan).

France had an arrangement something like the British Commonwealth, in which citizens of former French colonies that got their independence (Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia) had the legal right to go to France and work, so they were actually more legal than I was. They were joined by a population from other non-French colonies from the Maghreb, especially Egypt. My best friend was Sudanese.

There was no such thing as everyday fear of terrorism then though. I never saw that until I went from there to England, where it was very palpable. The terrorists of that time and place were Christians (the IRA).

 

[Sunni Man]

The Muslims in France come primarily come from Algeria and Tunisia , Frances former colonies and have been there for years and have always been marginalized and ripe for recruitment for radical groups

That is another piece of the French muslim anger puzzle.

French muslims are treated much like American black people were in the 1950's.

Overt institutional racism combined with 2nd class status. Lack of job opportunities, and a non existent muslim middle class. ......

 

[The Great Goose]

American muslims have generally assimilated into the society and job market. They self identify as being U.S. citizens and take full advantage of all the civil and legal protections and economic / educational opportunities offered them.

French muslims on the other hand, have never been fully allowed to assimilate into French society. They are routinely denied many job and income opportunities afforded the average citizen. Most of the French muslims are relegated to live in ghetto like enclaves which further isolates them. So that today, 2nd and even 3rd generation muslims do not self identify as being French citizens. And therein lies the root of the anger. ......

Europeans are obviously more nationalist about their ancient homelands.

 

[Pogo]

American muslims have generally assimilated into the society and job market. They self identify as being U.S. citizens and take full advantage of all the civil and legal protections and economic / educational opportunities offered them.

French muslims on the other hand, have never been fully allowed to assimilate into French society. They are routinely denied many job and income opportunities afforded the average citizen. Most of the French muslims are relegated to live in ghetto like enclaves which further isolates them. So that today, 2nd and even 3rd generation muslims do not self identify as being French citizens. And therein lies the root of the anger. ......

I beg to differ. We have a Muslim population here and they stay strictly to themselves. They do not assimilate. And, I mean that in the sense that they do not socialize with others.

The Muslims I associated with in France socialized very readily for anyone who asked. That was all that was needed. Actually that's all that's needed anywhere. We had great times. Laughed a lot. And if you needed something, they were there for you.

 

[Sunni Man]

Ever been to Dearborn and watched a female muzzie parallel park a car

No....but I have seen asian women trying to parallel park while talking on a cell phone......It couldn't be any worse than that. ....

 

[Pogo]

American muslims have generally assimilated into the society and job market. They self identify as being U.S. citizens and take full advantage of all the civil and legal protections and economic / educational opportunities offered them.

French muslims on the other hand, have never been fully allowed to assimilate into French society. They are routinely denied many job and income opportunities afforded the average citizen. Most of the French muslims are relegated to live in ghetto like enclaves which further isolates them. So that today, 2nd and even 3rd generation muslims do not self identify as being French citizens. And therein lies the root of the anger. ......

If what you say is true....then why do Muslims keep pouring into Europe by the millions? It makes no sense. If you hate the West and it's values, and feel you will not be given a fair shot.....then either why immigrate or stay?


And btw.....I appreciate your post and I am not busting your balls. It truly does not make sense to me. Thanks.

French bakeries?

Yeah...those French croissants are damn tasty.

Anyone who samples my coffee just raves about it, provided they like it strong -- well maybe this is why... before I moved to France I didn't even drink coffee, so that's what became my standard.

 

[Sunni Man]

Then leave France... I know that come off harsh but let be factual and admit Europe is not friendly to non-Europeans...

French born muslims aren't leaving France.......anymore than Mexican's born here are going to leave the U.S. .....

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Then leave France... I know that come off harsh but let be factual and admit Europe is not friendly to non-Europeans...

French born muslims aren't leaving France.......anymore than Mexican's born here are going to leave the U.S. .....

Maybe but if your life is so horrible in France then I would leave... As for those born in the States, well America has it issues but we're not Europe and the child of immigrant parents has a fighting chance here where in France they would be regulated to third world status...

Big difference between the two worlds even if you can't see it...

 

[Katzndogz]

The only difference between American muslims and muslims in France is there are more muslims in France. Muslims respond to their percentages.

 

[Sunni Man]

I beg to differ. We have a Muslim population here and they stay strictly to themselves. They do not assimilate. And, I mean that in the sense that they do not socialize with others.

City that I live in has a China Town.....the North End is the Italian section.....and the South End is the Irish area. Just to west is a township primarily populated by Jews. To the east is the hood, where the blacks live.

People tend to want to live with and around people they share a common interest with.

That's just human nature......muslims are no different in that respect. ......

 

[tinydancer]

American muslims have generally assimilated into the society and job market. They self identify as being U.S. citizens and take full advantage of all the civil and legal protections and economic / educational opportunities offered them.

French muslims on the other hand, have never been fully allowed to assimilate into French society. They are routinely denied many job and income opportunities afforded the average citizen. Most of the French muslims are relegated to live in ghetto like enclaves which further isolates them. So that today, 2nd and even 3rd generation muslims do not self identify as being French citizens. And therein lies the root of the anger. ......

Well let me come at you by saying a terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist with a myriad of "issues" that causes them to go mega jihad. These lunatics go ballistic on more Muslims in the ME than the number of terrorists who take Christians out in other parts of the world. Uncle Abdul doesn't get invited to a wedding in the Sudan and BAM! he blows up the wedding party.

Now that being said, I've tried to explain to many over the years I've been on boards that all these Euro do gooder nations with their "oh let's take them in because we are soooooo kind hearted and wonderful" actually end up segregating the Muslim population from the rest of their fellow countrymen. They have allowed, no created the ghettos and hence you have no go zones. Whether politicians want to believe it or not, the ghettos do become no go zones.

The muslim populations in many EU countries are denied citizenship so there is no feeling of belonging whatsoever.

Now these are blanket statements of course because also in these countries there are many well adjusted and assimilated muslims but one still has to point out the problem areas that no one seems to want to address.

It's so different over here. Up here in the Great White North, all along one stretch of Eglinton where I used to live in Toronto at one time, we had this mini UN with West Indians, Italians, Portuguese, Somalis Greeks, Indians, Pakistani, all Canadians though or becoming Canadians.

Man oh man we are talking good eating and great food all along Eglinton. It was one of my favorite places to live. My video store was run by a great muslim Somali who wouldn't penalize me if I didn't return the tape on time.

We didn't ghettoize is that a word? anyone. All cultures maintained but under the unifying umbrella of being Canucks. Heck we even have a Punjabi Hockey Night in Canada.
And we brought the world our beloved Little Mosque on the Praire.

It's so different here than in Europe. And we have to keep it this way and make sure we assist in any way possible newcomers to assimilate to our unique culture while maintaining their own.

We have to really recognize the huge failures in Europe and not replicate them.

 

[mudwhistle]

American muslims have generally assimilated into the society and job market. They self identify as being U.S. citizens and take full advantage of all the civil and legal protections and economic / educational opportunities offered them.

French muslims on the other hand, have never been fully allowed to assimilate into French society. They are routinely denied many job and income opportunities afforded the average citizen. Most of the French muslims are relegated to live in ghetto like enclaves which further isolates them. So that today, 2nd and even 3rd generation muslims do not self identify as being French citizens. And therein lies the root of the anger. ......

Not a justification, just an excuse.

FYI, this is what happens when they are given a choice. They'll vote for segregation rather than assimulation into a Western Society.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

I beg to differ. We have a Muslim population here and they stay strictly to themselves. They do not assimilate. And, I mean that in the sense that they do not socialize with others.

City that I live in has a China Town.....the North End is the Italian section.....and the South End is the Irish area. Just to west is a township primarily populated by Jews. To the east is the hood, where the blacks live.

People tend to want to live with and around people they share a common interest with.

That's just human nature......muslims are no different in that respect. ......

Very true, and growing up in Chi-town you grew up in the neighborhood that usually had people that came from the country you migrated from... Not unusual but here in the states the average migrant learn to become part of the culture they live in... When I was a kid my Grandfather could hardly speak English and his natural language was Italiano but if a non-Italian was in the house everyone and I mean everyone had to speak English... It was his way to adjust his children into the American society...

 

[WillowTree]

I beg to differ. We have a Muslim population here and they stay strictly to themselves. They do not assimilate. And, I mean that in the sense that they do not socialize with others.

City that I live in has a China Town.....the North End is the Italian section.....and the South End is the Irish area. Just to west is a township primarily populated by Jews. To the east is the hood, where the blacks live.

People tend to want to live with and around people they share a common interest with.

That's just human nature......muslims are no different in that respect. ......

True but those other groups come together once in a while and see each other, talk to each other pass pleasantries with each other at social events. That does not happen here with the Muslim population.

 

[theHawk]

Politicians wanting to punish American muslims for the actions of French muslims is idiotic and counter productive. ....

American Muslims are just behind the curve compared to their Euro counterparts. But they are quickly catching up. San Bernardino, Orlando...and all the other Muslim lead murder sprees. We need to prevent the African/Middle East ones from getting into our country, and start monitoring our own. It wouldn't take long to find them out if we just tried. Mosques are centers for terror recruiting and they are very much using social media, all easily traceable. The traitors could easily be rounded up and shipped back to any number of shithole Islamic countries were they belong.

 

[Sunni Man]

True but those other groups come together once in a while and see each other, talk to each other pass pleasantries with each other at social events. That does not happen here with the Muslim population.

What makes you think they would even want to hang around with you? .....

 

[Harry Dresden]

American muslims have generally assimilated into the society and job market. They self identify as being U.S. citizens and take full advantage of all the civil and legal protections and economic / educational opportunities offered them.

French muslims on the other hand, have never been fully allowed to assimilate into French society. They are routinely denied many job and income opportunities afforded the average citizen. Most of the French muslims are relegated to live in ghetto like enclaves which further isolates them. So that today, 2nd and even 3rd generation muslims do not self identify as being French citizens. And therein lies the root of the anger. ......

so that brings up a question Sunni.....if push came to shove and the choice was backing either the USA or groups like isis....where do you think the Muslim community would stand?...

 

[Weatherman2020]

American muslims have generally assimilated into the society and job market. They self identify as being U.S. citizens and take full advantage of all the civil and legal protections and economic / educational opportunities offered them.

French muslims on the other hand, have never been fully allowed to assimilate into French society. They are routinely denied many job and income opportunities afforded the average citizen. Most of the French muslims are relegated to live in ghetto like enclaves which further isolates them. So that today, 2nd and even 3rd generation muslims do not self identify as being French citizens. And therein lies the root of the anger. ......

Agreed. For years Muslims have been torching cars and rioting in France. There are places in France the police are not allowed to go into.

All part of leftist belief to keep cultures separated.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Ever been to Dearborn and watched a female muzzie parallel park a car

No....but I have seen asian women trying to parallel park while talking on a cell phone......It couldn't be any worse than that. ....

they dont even need to be on a phone.....its the same difference....