“America was founded as an Atheist and Christian Nation” 21st Century sin & salvation Christian agrees with Unitarian Deist John Adams.

[Correll]

Are you asking me a question?

How do you know as a matter of fact that the massive majority living in the second half of the 18th Century in the Colonies were Christians? And what defines being a Christian in your head?

1. An impression I picked up from my historical reading, where religion and religious people and ideas were always seen as the norm at those times and in the times and places where those people came from. I think you are the first person to ever challenge me on this historical fact.

2. Barring extreme heresy, I am generally fine with self identification.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

This does not mean that America was ever a "Christian nation," nor does it mean that we should pine for a return to some kind of "Christian" .....Richard Land.

Why are you holding to a position and world view and ideology that is so bad, that only retarded people can be tricked into thinking it is a good thing?

Tell me that you think Richard Land is a retarded, self identified and church going Christian. He wrote;

Although Winthrop is no role model for civil leadership today (his Puritan vision of God's providence did not allow for the concept of democracy), his Christian vision would later find common ground in the founding fathers' attribution of basic human rights to the God of Judeo-Christian heritage.​

Clearly, America was founded on a divine experiment rooted in Judeo-Christian worldviews. This does not mean that America was ever a "Christian nation," nor does it mean that we should pine for a return to some kind of "Christian" era in America's past. ...Richard Land.​

​

Pluralism: A Future and a Hope for Religious Diversity in the U.S.​

​

​

Richard D. Land​

Christian Post Executive Editor​

Dr. Richard Land, BA (magna cum laude), Princeton; D.Phil. Oxford; and Th.M., New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, was president of the Southern Baptists’ Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission (1988-2013) and has served since 2013 as president of Southern Evangelical Seminary in Charlotte, NC. Dr. Land has been teaching, writing, and speaking on moral and ethical issues for the last half century in addition to pastoring several churches.​

If Land is retarded, what does that make you.

Certainly Land is not an anti/Christian bigot intent on driving white evangelical Christians out of the public square because he says America was not a "Christian nation," nor should Christians pine for a return to some kind of "Christian" era.

why are you such a self-identified non-religious, cultural Christian jerk running around Insisting that every American accept the myth that America was founded as a Christian nation?

Why not agree with Richard Land, drop your demand and watch Christians be just fine.

 

[Correll]

This does not mean that America was ever a "Christian nation," nor does it mean that we should pine for a return to some kind of "Christian" .....Richard Land.

Why are you holding to a position and world view and ideology that is so bad, that only retarded people can be tricked into thinking it is a good thing?

Tell me that you think Richard Land is a retarded, self identified and church going Christian. He wrote;

Although Winthrop is no role model for civil leadership today (his Puritan vision of God's providence did not allow for the concept of democracy), his Christian vision would later find common ground in the founding fathers' attribution of basic human rights to the God of Judeo-Christian heritage.​

Clearly, America was founded on a divine experiment rooted in Judeo-Christian worldviews. This does not mean that America was ever a "Christian nation," nor does it mean that we should pine for a return to some kind of "Christian" era in America's past. ...Richard Land.​

​

Pluralism: A Future and a Hope for Religious Diversity in the U.S.​

​

​

Richard D. Land​

Christian Post Executive Editor​

Dr. Richard Land, BA (magna cum laude), Princeton; D.Phil. Oxford; and Th.M., New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, was president of the Southern Baptists’ Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission (1988-2013) and has served since 2013 as president of Southern Evangelical Seminary in Charlotte, NC. Dr. Land has been teaching, writing, and speaking on moral and ethical issues for the last half century in addition to pastoring several churches.​

If Land is retarded, what does that make you.

Certainly Land is not an anti/Christian bigot intent on driving white evangelical Christians out of the public square because he says America was not a "Christian nation," nor should Christians pine for a return to some kind of "Christian" era.

why are you such a self-identified non-religious, cultural Christian jerk running around Insisting that every American accept the myth that America was founded as a Christian nation?

Why not agree with Richard Land, drop your demand and watch Christians be just fine.

And here we see that the whole controversy you ginned up with your question is nothing but a distinction of semantics, created by you, to distract from while justifying your anti-Christian bigotry.


I don't drop my position, because it is my honest opinion and you've done nothing to refute it.


Why don't YOU drop the topic, since when I asked you what you can't have today, if America was and is a Christian Nation and all you were able to come up with was some future maybe?


Not change you mind, just let the issue lie, cause it is a matter of historical trivia with little impact on the modern world....



UNLESS, you are really motivated to undermine our traditional American culture for some anti-American reason.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

And here we see that the whole controversy you ginned up with your question is nothing but a distinction of semantics,

You never respond to substance.

its always some kind of whine about process.

You can’t acknowledge that my “so called semantics is exactly the same words of Richard Land - must he drop saying his Baptist conclusion that America was not founded or is a Christian nation.

the entire point that you replied to about Land and me saying exactly the same thing was ignored and called a semantics issue.

You are a fraud. Your word means nothing.

 

[Correll]

And here we see that the whole controversy you ginned up with your question is nothing but a distinction of semantics,

You never respond to substance.

its always some kind of whine about process.

You can’t acknowledge that my “so called semantics is exactly the same words of Richard Land - must he drop saying his Baptist conclusion that America was not founded or is a Christian nation.

the entire point that you replied to about Land and me saying exactly the same thing was ignored and called a semantics issue.

You are a fraud. Your word means nothing.

I did respond to the substance of your argument. Your argument is one of semantics. That you found a Christian that agrees with you, does not change that.


My points stand. You harp on this historical debate to distract from your current actions which are to try to marginalize Christians and Christianity in America today.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

I did respond to the substance of your argument.

You did not respond to a single point in that post. The point was that a major prominent Christian Leader and theologian and a proponent of Christian participating in the political process, which I also welcome, holds the majority view, as I do, that America is not and never has been a Christian nation.

You could try to explain why the majority must heed your demand to accept your conclusion that America was founded as a Christian Nation , based on an impression from reading some history that a lot of Americans seemed to be Christians at the time.....

 

[Correll]

I did respond to the substance of your argument.

You did not respond to a single point in that post. The point was that a major prominent Christian Leader and theologian and a proponent of Christian participating in the political process, which I also welcome, holds the majority view, as I do, that America is not and never has been a Christian nation.

You could try to explain why the majority must heed your demand to accept your conclusion that America was founded as a Christian Nation , based on an impression from reading some history that a lot of Americans seemed to be Christians at the time.....

I did ignore the Appeal to Authority portion of your post, which I have pointed out was an invalid logical fallacy before.


It is still an invalid logical fallacy.


Also, I ignored the Appeal to Popularity Logical Fallacy too. Ditto the rest.


Seriously, you seem to not understand...anything.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

I did ignore the Appeal to Authority portion of your post, which I have pointed out was an invalid logical fallacy before.

What is invalid?
What is a fallacy?

If Richard Land is wrong and you are right - why?

why are you the valid logical truth in this matter?

Having the ability to bullshit is not a valid response.

 

[Correll]

I did ignore the Appeal to Authority portion of your post, which I have pointed out was an invalid logical fallacy before.

What is invalid?
What is a fallacy?

If Richard Land is wrong and you are right - why?

why are you the valid logical truth in this matter?

Having the ability to bullshit is not a valid response.

Dumbass. Read. Learn.

Appeal to Authority

Insisting that a claim is true simply because a valid authority or expert on the issue said it was true, without any other supporting evidence offered. Also see the appeal to false authority.

www.logicallyfallacious.com

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Dumbass. Read. Learn

You really are a dumbass aren’t you?

from your link;

​

Exception: Be very careful not to confuse "deferring to an authority on the issue" with the appeal to authority fallacy. Remember, a fallacy is an error in reasoning. Dismissing the council of legitimate experts and authorities turns good skepticism into denialism. The appeal to authority is a fallacy in argumentation, but deferring to an authority is a reliable heuristic that we all use virtually every day on issues of relatively little importance. There is always a chance that any authority can be wrong, that’s why the critical thinker accepts facts provisionally. It is not at all unreasonable (or an error in reasoning) to accept information as provisionally true by credible authorities.​

I didn’t appeal to Dr Land as an authority you dumb ass. I’m confronting you with a big time Christian leader who has reached the same sane and current conclusion as I have along with secular minded scholars and historians and other Christians.
. It’s damn good provisionally true information from the Christian perspective that you have to run away from.

You have stated that you have appealed to your own personal ‘impression’ derived from reading some random books.

What makes you an authority on the size of the Christian population in the Colonies when the Constitution was being written and ratified,

You didn’t comeback with Richard Land’s fallacy. You shot back with a process complaint like you always do and you are wrong about that.

 

[Correll]

Dumbass. Read. Learn

You really are a dumbass aren’t you?

from your link;

​

Exception: Be very careful not to confuse "deferring to an authority on the issue" with the appeal to authority fallacy. Remember, a fallacy is an error in reasoning. Dismissing the council of legitimate experts and authorities turns good skepticism into denialism. The appeal to authority is a fallacy in argumentation, but deferring to an authority is a reliable heuristic that we all use virtually every day on issues of relatively little importance. There is always a chance that any authority can be wrong, that’s why the critical thinker accepts facts provisionally. It is not at all unreasonable (or an error in reasoning) to accept information as provisionally true by credible authorities.​

I didn’t appeal to Dr Land as an authority you dumb ass. I’m confronting you with a big time Christian leader who has reached the same sane and current conclusion as I have along with secular minded scholars and historians and other Christians.
. It’s damn good provisionally true information from the Christian perspective that you have to run away from.

You have stated that you have appealed to your own personal ‘impression’ derived from reading some random books.

What makes you an authority on the size of the Christian population in the Colonies when the Constitution was being written and ratified,

You didn’t comeback with Richard Land’s fallacy. You shot back with a process complaint like you always do and you are wrong about that.

What does it matter that Land has reached "the same conclusion" that you did, unless something about him, lends more weight to his opinion than yours or mine?


I did not claim to be an Authority. If you want to pin your position on the American people NOT being majority Christian at the time of the founding, say so, and we can investigate it together.


Do you realize how incoherent your arguments have been? I've been waiting for you to actually challenge my point, or ask me a question, instead you sort of rant and rave about stuff sort of connected to the topic, but not really making a point or a supporting argument.


What are you saying? Are you saying that if we can demonstrate that the US population was Christian that you will admit I am right?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Correll id the poster child for denialism

NotfooledbyW, post: 25836998

Dismissing the council of legitimate experts and authorities turns good skepticism into denialism

Correll dismisses the council of Richard Land ..... But can’t say what’s wrong with it.

“Although Winthrop is no role model for civil leadership today (his Puritan vision of God's providence did not allow for the concept of democracy), his Christian vision would later find common ground in the founding fathers' attribution of basic human rights to the God of Judeo-Christian heritage.​

Clearly, America was founded on a divine experiment rooted in Judeo-Christian worldviews. This does not mean that America was ever a "Christian nation," nor does it mean that we should pine for a return to some kind of "Christian" era in America's past. Pluralism: A Future and a Hope for Religious Diversity in the U.S.​

 

[Correll]

Correll id the poster child for denialism

NotfooledbyW, post: 25836998

Dismissing the council of legitimate experts and authorities turns good skepticism into denialism

Correll dismisses the council of Richard Land ..... But can’t say what’s wrong with it.

“Although Winthrop is no role model for civil leadership today (his Puritan vision of God's providence did not allow for the concept of democracy), his Christian vision would later find common ground in the founding fathers' attribution of basic human rights to the God of Judeo-Christian heritage.​

Clearly, America was founded on a divine experiment rooted in Judeo-Christian worldviews. This does not mean that America was ever a "Christian nation," nor does it mean that we should pine for a return to some kind of "Christian" era in America's past. Pluralism: A Future and a Hope for Religious Diversity in the U.S.​

You cited Land because he agrees with you. I have already addressed your points, before. Why should I have to do it again because you found a Christian who is a enough of a cuck to agree with you?


Having the same points come from a different source, only matters if the Source carries more weight, ie is an Authority.


HEnce my pointing out you invalid use of a Logical Fallacy.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Why RLand matters - NotfooledbyW, post: 25837644 to 25837472

What does it matter that Land has reached "the same conclusion" that you did, unless something about him, lends more weight to his opinion than yours or mine?

Your false claim that my steadfast informed rejection of the minority of white evangelical Christians who push the Christian Nationalists agenda which includes defining the founding of America as a Christian driven achievement, is the product of anti- Christian bigotry and an attempt to marginalize Christians to keep them from participating in politics is a lie. I bring RLand into the discussion to prove you are a liar.

Rejecting the false ideology that America was founded as a Christian is not a rejection of the great religion of Christianity nor is it a drive to keep Christians out of politics.

RLand is proof that you are talking out of your ass on this topic and a fraud.

 

[Correll]

Why RLand matters - Correll, post: 25837472

What does it matter that Land has reached "the same conclusion" that you did, unless something about him, lends more weight to his opinion than yours or mine?

Your false claim that my steadfast informed rejection of the minority of white evangelical Christians who push the Christian Nationalists agenda which includes defining the founding of America as a Christian driven achievement, is the product of anti- Christian bigotry and an attempt to marginalize Christians to keep them from participating in politics is a lie. I bring RLand into to the discussion to prove you are a liar.

Rejecting the false ideology that America was founded as a Christian is not a rejection of the great religion of Christianity nor is it a drive to keep Christians out of politics.

RLand is proof that you are talking out of your ass on this topic and a fraud.

That you found a Christian who is enough of a cuck to voice your anti-Christian position, does not prove that your motivation is not anti-Christian bigotry.


TRY AGAIN.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Why RLand matters - Correll, post: 25837472

What does it matter that Land has reached "the same conclusion" that you did, unless something about him, lends more weight to his opinion than yours or mine?

Your false claim that my steadfast informed rejection of the minority of white evangelical Christians who push the Christian Nationalists agenda which includes defining the founding of America as a Christian driven achievement, is the product of anti- Christian bigotry and an attempt to marginalize Christians to keep them from participating in politics is a lie. I bring RLand into to the discussion to prove you are a liar.

Rejecting the false ideology that America was founded as a Christian is not a rejection of the great religion of Christianity nor is it a drive to keep Christians out of politics.

RLand is proof that you are talking out of your ass on this topic and a fraud.

That you found a Christian who is enough of a cuck to voice your anti-Christian position, does not prove that your motivation is not anti-Christian bigotry.


TRY AGAIN.

I also found a Christian who agrees with you:

Evangelical Pastor Urges Christians to 'Mobilize' to Fight Civil War Against Left ...


Sep 14, 2020 — Right-wing pastor Rick Joyner says God has "seeded our country" with military veterans experienced in urban warfare to head up "good militias" ...


Nice of you to call RLAND a cuck for saying America was not founded as a Christian Nation while you aid and abet Rick Joyner when you say based on your impressions that America was founded as a Christian Nation.

 

[Correll]

Why RLand matters - Correll, post: 25837472

What does it matter that Land has reached "the same conclusion" that you did, unless something about him, lends more weight to his opinion than yours or mine?

Your false claim that my steadfast informed rejection of the minority of white evangelical Christians who push the Christian Nationalists agenda which includes defining the founding of America as a Christian driven achievement, is the product of anti- Christian bigotry and an attempt to marginalize Christians to keep them from participating in politics is a lie. I bring RLand into to the discussion to prove you are a liar.

Rejecting the false ideology that America was founded as a Christian is not a rejection of the great religion of Christianity nor is it a drive to keep Christians out of politics.

RLand is proof that you are talking out of your ass on this topic and a fraud.

That you found a Christian who is enough of a cuck to voice your anti-Christian position, does not prove that your motivation is not anti-Christian bigotry.


TRY AGAIN.

I also found a Christian who agrees with you:

Evangelical Pastor Urges Christians to 'Mobilize' to Fight Civil War Against Left ...

Sep 14, 2020 — Right-wing pastor Rick Joyner says God has "seeded our country" with military veterans experienced in urban warfare to head up "good militias" ...


Nice of you to call RLAND a cuck for saying America was not founded as a Christian Nation while you aid and abet Rick Joyner when you say based on your impressions that America was founded as a Christian Nation.

I asked you if you wanted to base your position on the idea that the US was NOT majority Christian at it's founding as you have spent a lot of time arguing.


And you dropped your supporting argument to talk about people who agree with you or me...


Geez, it does not seem that you have much faith in your own arguments, when I ask you to get serious about them....


or is this just more of that style of debating you do, where you don't actually make points, just talk about related shit in a negative spin?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Counting butts in pews does not a Christian Nation make - NotfooledbyW, post: 25844988 to 25838325

I asked you if you wanted to base your position on the idea that the US was NOT majority Christian at it's founding as you have spent a lot of time arguing.

I have written extensively explaining that defining America as a Christian Nation on the basis of a religious majority derived by counting butts in pews on Sundays in 1790 does not entitle you to define America as a Christian Nation. You have no right to expect non-Christian Americans to go to the back of the bus based on their minority Religious beliefs status.

I can cite the Constitution that gives me and my minority religious belief absolute equal status to each and every individual who chooses to participate in the majority religion.

Counting Sunday’s butts in pews and finding a majority gives you no damned right to marginalize me and absorb me into your majority religious group by identifying the nation of my birth as a Christian Nation.

 

[Correll]

Counting butts in pews does not a Christian Nation make - NotfooledbyW, post: 25844988 to 25838325

I asked you if you wanted to base your position on the idea that the US was NOT majority Christian at it's founding as you have spent a lot of time arguing.

I have written extensively explaining that defining America as a Christian Nation on the basis of a religious majority derived by counting butts in pews on Sundays in 1790 does not entitle you to define America as a Christian Nation. You have no right to expect non-Christian Americans to go to the back of the bus based on their minority Religious beliefs status.

I can cite the Constitution that gives me and my minority religious belief absolute equal status to each and every individual who chooses to participate in the majority religion.

Counting Sunday’s butts in pews and finding a majority gives you no damned right to marginalize me and absorb me into your majority religious group by identifying the nation of my birth as a Christian Nation.

1. Funny, you as a lib will consider a man a woman if he identifies that way, but require proof from a man that identifies as a Christian. That is you showing that you are being dishonest.

2. Nothing I have said, justifies you accusing me of wanting non-Christians to go to the "back of the bus". Indeed, I have repeatedly asked you why you are so concerned or what you are so concerned about. This is the first clear and explicit mention of this concern of yours.

3. I agree that you religious minorities have equal rights, PROTECTED BY, the Constitution.

4. Status is a whole different topic. You choose to be different, or a non-conformist, you might be shunned or outcast from polite society. As is their right, to not have to celebrate your choices. We are starting to see what you are really concerned about.


5. There is nothing in my actions to imply that I want to marginalize you. That is shit you just made up.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Back of the bus - NotfooledbyW, post: 25863588 to 25845838

NotfooledbyW, post: 25844988

You have no right to expect non-Christian Americans to go to the back of the bus based on their minority Religious beliefs status.

Correll, post: 25845838

2. Nothing I have said, justifies you accusing me of wanting non-Christians to go to the "back of the bus".

I said you ‘expect’ non-Christians to go to the back of the bus. That’s from what you say. That is your Christian majority “made the American nation moral crap” that you want every non-Christian to accept.

You keep saying that America was founded as a Christian nation because of a massive majority of Christians who lived here in 1776

Correll, post: 25761928 to 25761539

So, despite Christians being a massive majority from the beginning of this nation and all the way up to today..

But you don’t know if there was a majority of Christians living on American soil when the Constitution was written.

So why do you have to tell me something that is not true? Why do you insist on separating non-Christians from the founding of our common nation and then being so kind that you tolerate us?

Why must you do that?