“America was founded as an Atheist and Christian Nation” 21st Century sin & salvation Christian agrees with Unitarian Deist John Adams.

NotfooledbyW

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“America was founded as an Atheist and Christian Nation” 21st Century sin & salvation Christian agrees with Unitarian Deist John Adams.

As many of you know there is a rift in American culture that exists between mostly a small percentage of religious Americans who happen to be mostly whitehave a certain chronic demand that we all accept that America was founded as a “Christian Nation.” and non-Christians

Although a large majority of practicing Christians are complacent or non- supportive regarding this religious national identity issue it constantly comes up as a thorn in the side of political discourse resulting in breakdown upon breakdown whenever religion is part of a political discussion.

So, thanks to input from Andylusion, a self identified Christian who brought to my attention what John Adams had to say as if he were commenting on this issue today. Was America founded as a Christian?

Here is an excerpt from what he wrote to his friend and Fellow founding father.

Who composed that army of fine young fellows that was then before my eyes? There were among them Roman Catholics, English Episcopalians, Scotch and American Presbyterians, Methodists, Moravians, Anabaptists, German Lutherans, German Calvinists, Universalists, Arians, Priestleyans, Socinians, Independents, Congregationalists, Horse Protestants, and House Protestants, Deists and Atheists, and Protestants “qui ne croyent rien.” Very few, however, of several of these species; nevertheless, all educated in the general principles of Christianity, and the general principles of English and American liberty.​

* Protestants “qui ne croyent rien.” supposedly refers to Protestants who believe in nothing.​

I‘m suggesting we follow the wisdom and advice from John Adams and all believers and non-believers alike and accept a phrase commemorating America’s religious identity read as follows:

“America was founded as an Atheist and Christian Nation” which includes every law abiding belief system in between.

AGREE? DISAGREE? SUGGESTIONS?
 

Correll

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As many of you know there is a rift in American culture that exists between mostly a small percentage of religious Americans who happen to be mostly whitehave a certain chronic demand that we all accept that America was founded as a “Christian Nation.” and non-Christians

Except they are not starting this thread to demand anything. YOu are starting it to attack them for disagreeing with you.

right there, you lose.
 

drifter

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Roughly eight-in-ten (79%) African Americans self-identify as Christian, as do seven-in-ten whites and 77% of Latinos, according to Pew Research Center’s 2014 Religious Landscape Study. Most black Christians and about half of all African Americans (53%) are associated with historically black Protestant churches, according to the study. Smaller shares of African Americans identify with evangelical Protestantism (14%), Catholicism (5%), mainline Protestantism (4%), and Islam (2%)


I guess the Black Community is slightly more Christian than Whites and Latinos. Interesting.
 

ding

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We are going to need to re-write a few things.
 
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NotfooledbyW

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#5 reply to #2
I guess the Black Community is slightly more Christian than Whites and Latinos. Interesting.
I will take credit for giving whites a higher “unaffiliated” result on the chart you posted by exercising my Constitutional right to reject for myself what the majority of Americans choose to believe.

That does not mean that I am an anti-Christian bigot as this Christian nationalist repeatedly complains:

E&T#582 September 28 2020
And thus my point. You claim to respect America's Christian Heritage and Culture(s) and Traditions, but your words are just that, empty words and nothing more.

The moment that any American Christian actually wants something or to do something that conflicts with your wants and goals, it is TABOO, UNAMERICAN, THEOCRATIC, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

You are an anti-Christian bigot, and this thread is nothing but a small part of the constant push by people like you to undermine and marginalize Christians and Christianity in our history and current and future culture.
Since it’s been pointed out here that black and Hispanic Americans respectively are more Christian than white Americans I submit that the small group of Christians that demand America needs to have a Christian spiritual identity should consult with their Hispanic and Black brethren to find out if a Christian Nation label at the time America’s founding wouid be something important to then.

That would be anti-bigotry in my book and I’m for that.

In support of this on another thread I posted this:


E&T#282 September 25 2020
The Rev. Joseph Darby, first vice president for the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People in Charleston, disagreed with claims that the country was intended to be explicitly Christian.

Darby, who also pastors Nichols Chapel AME in Charleston, didn’t mince words in describing Christian nationalists and white evangelical denominations with exclusionary views on immigration and multiculturalism.
“It’s called Christian hypocrisy,” Darby said.

Darby added that the country should not be in favor of one particular religion. Rather, he said politicians and voters should “love God and love others as we would be loved.”
Would it not be Christian for a Christian nationalist to show respect and awareness to his non-white Christian fellowship instead of acting like an imbecile and calling Reverend Darby a dupe if liberal elites as Correll d

We can see Correll ’s judgment back in April on another subject. But I think bad judgment is universal and can be applied to bad judgement to demand Christian religious identity to the founding moments of

I wrote “The makeshift tractor trailer morgues are overwhelmed so you should respond that there has NOT been an overreaction and you now agree shutting the economy down as TrumpO says, has saved over two million lives if the death toll does not exceed 200,000.”

COVID#225 April 10
Seems to be the case. If that information is supported by later events, it will make me feel better about the scale of the reaction.
Good to know Correll can feel better now that COVID19’ deaths are over 200,000 and heading for double that by the time Trump hands the reins of power to Biden Schumer and PELOSI to clean up a Republican mess again. DejaVu 2008.
 
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drifter

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#2 reply to #1
I guess the Black Community is slightly more Christian than Whites and Latinos. Interesting.
I will take credit for giving whites a higher “unaffiliated” result on the chart you posted by exercising my Constitutional right to reject for myself what the majority of Americans choose to believe.

That does not mean that I am an anti-Christian bigot as this Christian nationalist repeatedly complains:

E&T# September 2020 anti-Christian
And thus my point. You claim to respect America's Christian Heritage and Culture(s) and Traditions, but your words are just that, empty words and nothing more.

The moment that any American Christian actually wants something or to do something that conflicts with your wants and goals, it is TABOO, UNAMERICAN, THEOCRATIC, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

You are an anti-Christian bigot, and this thread is nothing but a small part of the constant push by people like you to undermine and marginalize Christians and Christianity in our history and current and future culture.
Since it’s been pointed out here that black and Hispanic Americans are more Christian than white Americans I submit that the small group of Christians that demand America needs to have a Christian spiritual identity should consult with their Hispanic and Black brethren to find out if a Christian Nation label at the time America’s founding wouid be something important to then.

That would be anti-bigotry in my book and I’m for that.

In support of this on another thread I posted this:


E&T#282 September 25 2020
The Rev. Joseph Darby, first vice president for the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People in Charleston, disagreed with claims that the country was intended to be explicitly Christian.

Darby, who also pastors Nichols Chapel AME in Charleston, didn’t mince words in describing Christian nationalists and white evangelical denominations with exclusionary views on immigration and multiculturalism.
“It’s called Christian hypocrisy,” Darby said.

Darby added that the country should not be in favor of one particular religion. Rather, he said politicians and voters should “love God and love others as we would be loved.”
Would it not be Christian for a Christian nationalist to show respect and awareness to his non-white Christian fellowship instead of acting like an imbecile and calling Reverend Darby a dupe if liberal elites as Correll d

We can see Correll ’s judgment back in April on another subject. But I think bad judgment is universal and can be applied to bad judgement to identify Christian religious identity

I wrote “The makeshift tractor trailer morgues are overwhelmed so you should respond that there has NOT been an overreaction and you now agree shutting the economy down as TrumpO says, has saved over two million lives if the death toll does not exceed 200,000.”

Post #225
Seems to be the case. If that information is supported by later events, it will make me feel better about the scale of the reaction.
Good to know Correll can feel better now that COVID19’ desths are over 200,000 and heading for double that by the time Trump hands the reins of power to Biden Schumer and PELOSI to clean up a Republican mess.
I never called you any of these weird things you're quoting. You need to smoke a bowl and watch some mister rogers friend.
 
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NotfooledbyW

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I never called you any of these weird things you're quoting. You need to smoke a bowl and watch some mister rogers friend.
Never said you did. What are you complaining about.

you brought up black Christian. I thank you for that. I added to your comments.
 
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NotfooledbyW

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Christian Nationalists Demands

Post #1.1
As many of you know there is a rift in American culture that exists between mostly a small percentage of religious Americans who happen to be mostly whitehave a certain chronic demand that we all accept that America was founded as a “Christian Nation.”
#9 reply to #2

Except they are not starting this thread to demand anything.
You are commenting on this thread but not saying anything. Of course Christian nationalists did not start this thread because I did. There is no disagreement from you that Christian nationalists have never made any demands of secular minded Americans to submit to their unreasonable and unfounded demands.

So I will happily continue to explain that the Christian nationalists demand per #2.1 is based on a lie so it cannot be met under any circumstances. Your excuse that America was founded as some kind generalization of a Christian nation is a huge flop.
 
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Correll

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E&T#582 September 28 2020
And thus my point. You claim to respect America's Christian Heritage and Culture(s) and Traditions, but your words are just that, empty words and nothing more.

The moment that any American Christian actually wants something or to do something that conflicts with your wants and goals, it is TABOO, UNAMERICAN, THEOCRATIC, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

You are an anti-Christian bigot, and this thread is nothing but a small part of the constant push by people like you to undermine and marginalize Christians and Christianity in our history and current and future culture.
Since it’s been pointed out here that black and Hispanic Americans respectively are more Christian than white Americans I submit that the small group of Christians that demand America needs to have a Christian spiritual identity should consult with their Hispanic and Black brethren to find out if a Christian Nation label at the time America’s founding wouid be something important to then.

That would be anti-bigotry in my book and I’m for that.
"Label"? We are talking about the objective reality of what a nation was, and a nation is. Labels do not define reality.


I ask you again, what do you want today, that you cannot have, if America is a Christian Nation?
 

Correll

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We can see @Correll ’s judgment back in April on another subject. But I think bad judgment is universal and can be applied to bad judgement to demand Christian religious identity to the founding moments of

I wrote “The makeshift tractor trailer morgues are overwhelmed so you should respond that there has NOT been an overreaction and you now agree shutting the economy down as TrumpO says, has saved over two million lives if the death toll does not exceed 200,000.”

COVID#225 April 10
Seems to be the case. If that information is supported by later events, it will make me feel better about the scale of the reaction.
Good to know Correll can feel better now that COVID19’ deaths are over 200,000 and heading for double that by the time Trump hands the reins of power to Biden Schumer and PELOSI to clean up a Republican mess again. DejaVu 2008.

The 200k number is a joke. If you want to be taken seriously, don't joke like that.
 

Correll

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Christian Nationalists Demands

Post #1.1
As many of you know there is a rift in American culture that exists between mostly a small percentage of religious Americans who happen to be mostly whitehave a certain chronic demand that we all accept that America was founded as a “Christian Nation.”
#9 reply to #2

Except they are not starting this thread to demand anything.
You are commenting on this thread but not saying anything. Of course Christian nationalists did not start this thread because I did. There is no disagreement from you that Christian nationalists have never made any demands of secular minded Americans to submit to their unreasonable and unfounded demands.

So I will happily continue to explain that the Christian nationalists demand per #2.1 is based on a lie so it cannot be met under any circumstances. Your excuse that America was founded as some kind generalization of a Christian nation is a huge flop.


What can you have today, that you cannot have, if America is a Christian Nation?
 
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NotfooledbyW

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#13 reply to #12
What can you have today, that you cannot have, if America is a Christian Nation?
Post E&T#946
What do you want TODAY, that US being a Christian Nation, would deny you?
Post E&T#948
What do you want TODAY, that you can't have, if we are a Christian Nation?
Post E&T#950
What do you want TODAY, that you cannot have, if we are a Christian Nation?
Post E&T#971
I ask again, what do you want today, that you cannot have, if we are a Christian Nation?
I want to not have to spend time defendIng religious liberty from Christian nationalists who would demolish it immediately if they could. Because of the strong and righteous defense of religious liberty the religious right, moral majority Christian nationalists have been unable to fully undo the separation of church and state as of yet. but that does not mean theybwould not if they were left to their lies and shameful shenanigans in the name of Jesus unchallenged.

Don’t tell me I don't need to worry about the intent of Christians like Rick Perry who says The Separation of Church and State is the work of Satan or the a devil.

Satan, Separation And Absurdity: Texas Gov. Rallies 'Christian Warriors' To Scale The ...
Sep 21, 2012 — Texas Gov. Rick Perry is not one to shy away from hyperbole, having declared recently that church- state separation is the work of Satan.During a conference ...

When the Governor of Texas is basically saying that two of my founding fathers of many secular heroes did the work of Satan - that my lying Christian friend means that lovers of religious liberty must stand guard against so many like you and the encroachment of religious dogma myth and eventual tyranny.

There is my answer - I want today, and into the future to not have to spend time defending Religious liberty from the likes of you, ding and Andylusion from turning America into Christian Nation through lies because the truth is America was not founded that way.
 
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NotfooledbyW

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Post #14
In order to document the extent that the minor Christian nationalists like Correll ding Andylusion must lie to push their intolerant national ChrIstian identity Campaign we should review the original generation of American Presidents focusing Only on what they said not whether we are able to identify them as Christian in the way that 21st Century white Evangelical Christians define their personal Christianity today.

Post ECN#9 Washington to the Hebrew Congregation:
“........the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens.,,,,,”From George Washington to the Hebrew Congregation in Newport, Rhode Island, 18 August 1790
In Washington’s exact words I hear him saying “America was founded as a “good citizen” Nation. Nothing special said about Christians being better than any good citizens from any other religious belief to no religion at all.

In fact identifying America as founded as a Christian nation implies that all professed Christians should be counted as good citizens automatically.
 
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America was founded as a country based on Anglo-Saxon cultural and political domination and 'Protestant working ethic'. No matter whether it was stated officially or not. It was what that made the US the number one country in the world.

Either the US will return to its roots or it will be disintegrated and end in misery.
 
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founded by WASPs
#16 reply to #15.2
America was founded as a country based on Anglo-Saxon cultural and political domination and 'Protestant working ethic'.
When you say America was Founded as..... are you you saying America was Founded to be a WASP Nation and inviting in all other ethnicities and religions has ruined her.

I recognize and appreciate the fact that your version of Christian Nation is more correct than the Christian nationalists posting here wish to admit. The dominant religion at the time of America!s founding was white an Protestant.

Wonder why Correll ding Andylusion don’t want to talk about that as the reality of the Christian nationalist movement.
 

ESay

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When you say America was Founded as..... are you you saying America was Founded to be a WASP Nation and inviting in all other ethnicities and religions has ruined her.
Inviting other people was understandable move, because the country needed people to develop vast territories.

My point was not about ethnicity and religion in the broader sense, but about the principles the country was based on. Fair competition, self-responsibility, endeavouring mindset and so on. Now, the country is leaning left.

I want to underline that I am not an American citizen and don't live in the US. I can offer the opinion of an outsider only.
 

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founded by WASPs
#16 reply to #15.2
America was founded as a country based on Anglo-Saxon cultural and political domination and 'Protestant working ethic'.
When you say America was Founded as..... are you you saying America was Founded to be a WASP Nation and inviting in all other ethnicities and religions has ruined her.

I recognize and appreciate the fact that your version of Christian Nation is more correct than the Christian nationalists posting here wish to admit. The dominant religion at the time of America!s founding was white an Protestant.

Wonder why Correll ding Andylusion don’t want to talk about that as the reality of the Christian nationalist movement.
It's funny how even people who don't live in the US, are now pointing out the stupidity of your position.

I'll talk about anything people want, provided they consider the evidence. Your response to my evidence was "La la la la I can't hear you". You just ignored it, or denied it said what it clearly spelled out.

I wonder why NotfooledbyW refuses to listen to any evidence he doesn't want to hear? Oh because he's not an adult. He's a toddler devoid of independent thought.
 

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We are going to need to re-write a few things.
Wonder why @Correll @ding @Andylusion don’t want to talk about that as the reality of the Christian nationalist movement.
.
they can not stand it when their beliefs are circumvented and they can not control society as being in their possession. brainwashing children in their early grade school years in public education when they are most susceptible to nefarious indoctrination's they insist must be learned. taken away from them by the law of the land. thankfully, the u s constitution ratification in 1778.

rewriting the the document of law is their only option ... christian nationalists. so few would support.
 
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#20 reply to #18
I'll talk about anything people want, provided they consider the evidence.
I not only considered your evidence I’ve proven your evidence is fake, a fraud a lie:

There is no other explanation for your character except that you are a liar. Here is why.

You posted a portion of a letter from Adam’s to Jefferson that was a fraud. It is a misquote. You are a liar and a fraud.

Here is what you posted:

Its a Phony fake cherry picked JOHN ADAMS Quote. It is one if the most obvious frauds on the internet. And you start with that as your proof:

John Adams
SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; JUDGE; DIPLOMAT; ONE OF TWO SIGNERS OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS; SECOND PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

“The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.1“​


Here is the Fake compared to
actual quote with bolded phrases that were cherry picked by your fake right wing religious nationalist site.

FAKE: “The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.1“

This is a patchwork of three phrases taken from a letter (28 June 1813) to Thomas Jefferson juxtaposed to give a misleading impression of Adams’ meaning:
Could my answer be understood by any candid reader or hearer, to recommend to all the others the general principles, institutions, or systems of education of the Roman Catholics, or those of the Quakers, or those of the Presbyterians, or those of the Methodists, or those of the Moravians, or those of the Universalists, or those of the Philosophers? No. The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence, were the only principles in which that beautiful assembly of young men could unite, and these principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general principles? I answer, the general principles of Christianity, in which all those sects were united, and the general principles of English and American liberty, in which all those young men united, and which had united all parties in America, in majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her independence. Now I will avow, that I then believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature and our terrestrial, mundane system. I could, therefore, safely say, consistently with all my then and present information, that I believed they would never make discoveries in contradiction to these general principles. In favor of these general principles, in philosophy, religion, and government, I could fill sheets of quotations from Frederic of Prussia, from Hume, Gibbon, Bolingbroke, Rousseau, and Voltaire, as well as Newton and Locke; not to mention thousands of divines and philosophers of inferior fame.​

So you can just shut up about your proofs being ignored.

I was trying to show you the errors you made when you declared yourself right and then ran away.

You are a liar.
 
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