Allen West is a disgrace.

[Che]

jester once again has managed to insult me repeatedly without responding to any of my points. Claiming that i have beliefs i don't have because he can't comprehend the ones i actually expressed.

What's that? I disagree with you? I didn't think the vietnam war or the iraq war were a good idea, and i refuse to fight a war i don't believe in? I must be a lefty coward!

your points are nothing but insults to those who served.....you paint the military as a bunch of bloody thirsty robots......you are an idiot, who hasn't a damn clue.

You wouldn't kniow what being a soldier, sailor, airman, marine is all about to save your life......you don't give a **** about them, to you they are just mindless robots following orders. And nothing more than targets for your asinine left wing drivel.

Those service members are husbands, wives, fathers, mothers, sons, daughters.....they do their job. Without them doing their job, you wouldn't have the platform to spew your hateful left wing garbage....they have more honor and integrity than a spoiled lil' liberal lackey like you could only dream of.

Now, go grow some balls and spew your insults to a battle hardened troop, just returning from hell.....see what happens!.......what will happen is, they will politely smile and simply walk away, full well knowing that hateful lil' ***** like you are the minority, and do not in anyway represent this great country as a whole.

You're a fuckin' idiot, nothing more!

sua sponte!!! Rltw!!!

 

[Wicked Jester]

jester once again has managed to insult me repeatedly without responding to any of my points. Claiming that i have beliefs i don't have because he can't comprehend the ones i actually expressed.

What's that? I disagree with you? I didn't think the vietnam war or the iraq war were a good idea, and i refuse to fight a war i don't believe in? I must be a lefty coward!

your points are nothing but insults to those who served.....you paint the military as a bunch of bloody thirsty robots......you are an idiot, who hasn't a damn clue.

You wouldn't kniow what being a soldier, sailor, airman, marine is all about to save your life......you don't give a **** about them, to you they are just mindless robots following orders. And nothing more than targets for your asinine left wing drivel.

Those service members are husbands, wives, fathers, mothers, sons, daughters.....they do their job. Without them doing their job, you wouldn't have the platform to spew your hateful left wing garbage....they have more honor and integrity than a spoiled lil' liberal lackey like you could only dream of.

Now, go grow some balls and spew your insults to a battle hardened troop, just returning from hell.....see what happens!.......what will happen is, they will politely smile and simply walk away, full well knowing that hateful lil' ***** like you are the minority, and do not in anyway represent this great country as a whole.

You're a fuckin' idiot, nothing more!

sua sponte!!! Rltw!!!

all the way!

 

[MikeK]

[...]Personally, I'd like to tear the damn thing up, and fight under the black flag-no quarter, asked or given! Let me put it this way; in Vietnam, it was a good idea to save one bullet, or your last grenade, for yourself; surrendering to the VC was not an option. You are invited to wonder, how we treated them, as a result, or if I give a rat's ass!

What you've described is organized insanity, which pretty much sums up what duty in the Vietnam jungles was about. It is the kind of sustained experience that engenders PTSD. How these experiences come about is understandable. How they can be avoided is also understandable and one would hope, if the ordinary grunt is exposed to conditions which impede his understanding, that his commissioned superiors do not lose sight of the reasons for suppressing unnecessarily pathological behavior, which all-too-easily becomes habitual.

Some years ago I met an Italian national who was visiting a relative here in the U.S. This man was a schoolteacher during the German occupation of Italy. He said the German soldiers were very restrained in their behavior toward the residents of his town. No mistreatment was tolerated. As a result of this policy the resistance organizers had very little cooperation from the people in that town. The Germans weren't liked but their presence was so tolerably benign that it didn't warrant the risk of provoking them. He said the German officers very firmly controlled the behavior of the ordinary troopers.

What Allen West did was diametrically opposed to the simple wisdom inherent in the foregoing example of productive military conduct during occupation. In simple terms, he promoted the resistance spirit rather than assuaging it.

 

[The Gadfly]

Let's imagine a different war. I'll really put myself in your shoes, and imagine that there's a war I think is worth fighting.

You obviously hate it [America], would never stand up and fight for it under any circumstances so,

Gotta start off by showing how full of shit you are. You did that yourself. I just had to cut away the rest.

Now listen here war monger. I'm gonna take you to school. You think there's something magical about war? That it's somehow a liberty generating machine? You're wrong. Wars that create liberty are few and far between. War is hell. It's a stupid thing to do, and should be avoided unless there's a really damn good reason.

Now let me tell you about your leaders. Your leaders tell you that you're a hero. They tell you that you're loved and respected and that your country will always honor your sacrifice. And you believe them. They don't give a **** about you. You're expendable. Only as valuable as you are hard to replace. They don't really care if you make it home alive or not, except as it concerns their political fall out. But if you do happen to make it home, broken but alive, don't count on their help. Gulf War Syndrome? What's that? Over a decade later, once you're bankrupt from medical bills, someone will shame them into recognizing it. And then they'll pinch every penny they can find when it comes to treating you.

They told you you were fighting for freedom. Truth, justice, and the American way. And you believed them. Where is the freedom? Is the graveyard that you left behind free? Tell me, what are your enemies fighting for? Did the Vietnamese think they were fighting for their slavery? Or were they fighting for life and liberty too? If Iraq occupied us, how long would you fight? Wars for freedom are far between. Your leaders will send you to war for their own benefit. Halliburton gets fat off of no bid contracts and the weapons manufacturers give their lobbyists some fresh cash and the oil companies are salivating.

So don't call me a coward. I'm just not a fool. I'll fight if there's something worth fighting for. But I'm not going to lock step into a brain dead mob marching off to enrich the war profiteers.

Don't you lecture me about war from your armchair. The only war you know, is what you've seen on TV, the movies, and video games. Let's begin with what you got right. War is not "magical". It is miserable, nasty, and brutal; discomfort, boredom, deprivation, and sheer terror all rolled up in one ugly package. It is not romantic either. That much you got right. McNamara and LBJ didn't give a damn about any of us, we were expendable, written off, like any piece of equipment sent into a combat zone. You got that right.

What you got wrong, is a thing called "Duty". You don't know the meaning of the word, of course, but some of us do. Get this straight; soldiers don't start wars; none of us got to pick and choose which wars we would or would not fight. We took an oath, and we obeyed it, because that is what soldiers do; they trust their superiors to make the right choices for them, and then they live (and die) according to those choices. It does not become a soldier (officers included) to question the order of a superior unless the order is flagrantly and unquestionably unlawful on its face. Anything else, is obeyed now, and reported later.

Whether you believe it or not, we were fighting for freedom, and against communism, which by its own definition is the antithesis of freedom. That "graveyard we left behind", is not free; it has been and remains a communist country, a prison. Go there, and see if you are allowed to run your mouths like you do here. You'd be shot, or sent to a re-education camp. The VC and the NVA were NOT fighting for freedom and liberty (I don't care what they say); they were fighting for soviet-style communism! Our efforts WOULD have produced freedom for the Vietnamese, IF we had been allowed to finish the job (we had beaten them on the battlefield, they knew it, we knew it), and the Left, the lying reporters, and the feckless politicians, took victory from us and gave it to murdering, torturing communist oppressors. Let's be clear; you can either support freedom, or you can support communism; the two are mutually exclusive. To say you support freedom, and also support any form of communism, is a LIE!

You people talk about Hitler; he was evil, but he was an amateur, compared to Stalin and Mao. Communism is the most murderous ideology in the history of this planet. Stalin murdered somewhere between thirty and forty million of his own people. Mao murdered between 60 million and eighty million ; no one really knows. Pol Pot more millions; Ho Chi Minh-more millions; Uncle Ho's so-called freedom fighters killed far more Vietnamese civilians than we ever did. The only good communist, is a dead one, and my wish, is that I could have killed more of them. They were the enemy, and they are still the enemy, so long as any exist, here, or anywhere. I'm glad I fought them, I'm glad I stood up to them, I'm glad I killed them.

 

[The Gadfly]

[...]Personally, I'd like to tear the damn thing up, and fight under the black flag-no quarter, asked or given! Let me put it this way; in Vietnam, it was a good idea to save one bullet, or your last grenade, for yourself; surrendering to the VC was not an option. You are invited to wonder, how we treated them, as a result, or if I give a rat's ass!

What you've described is organized insanity, which pretty much sums up what duty in the Vietnam jungles was about. It is the kind of sustained experience that engenders PTSD. How these experiences come about is understandable. How they can be avoided is also understandable and one would hope, if the ordinary grunt is exposed to conditions which impede his understanding, that his commissioned superiors do not lose sight of the reasons for suppressing unnecessarily pathological behavior, which all-too-easily becomes habitual.

Some years ago I met an Italian national who was visiting a relative here in the U.S. This man was a schoolteacher during the German occupation of Italy. He said the German soldiers were very restrained in their behavior toward the residents of his town. No mistreatment was tolerated. As a result of this policy the resistance organizers had very little cooperation from the people in that town. The Germans weren't liked but their presence was so tolerably benign that it didn't warrant the risk of provoking them. He said the German officers very firmly controlled the behavior of the ordinary troopers.

What Allen West did was diametrically opposed to the simple wisdom inherent in the foregoing example of productive military conduct during occupation. In simple terms, he promoted the resistance spirit rather than assuaging it.

Pretty words. Why don't you try using them on the enemy in a firefight, and see how effective they are? I've found bullets and grenades produce a better result, myself. You know what I wish? I wish we could have drafted all your Leftist progenitors, deloused them, dry shaved them, and sent them into combat to do a recon by fire-with their loud vulgar mouths. They'd have gotten killed, of course, but that would have been the only useful thing the Leftist maggots did in their entire sorry lives, saving real soldiers from mines, punji stakes and VC ambushes.

 

[Too Tall]

Allen West is GREAT!

I love him.

Excellent retort. (You do know he violated the ucmj and was forced to retire dont you?)

The army didnt want him, so of course you think he is "GREAT".

Questions! When did you serve in the military? Were you ever in combat? What rank were you if, as you stated, you served for 20 years.

On edit, I read your military record of 20 years in the Navy. A peace time squid hating a combat vet is rather stupid, IMO>

 

[Jroc]

Jester once again has managed to insult me repeatedly without responding to any of my points. Claiming that I have beliefs I don't have because he can't comprehend the ones I actually expressed.

What's that? I disagree with you? I didn't think the Vietnam war or the Iraq war were a good idea, and I refuse to fight a war I don't believe in? I must be a lefty coward!

Who the hell wants to waste time responding to 3 or 4 paragraphs of stupid liberal talking points? There wasn't one original thought in your stupid post. Talk about "mind numb robots"..

 

[Jroc]

Don't you lecture me about war from your armchair. The only war you know, is what you've seen on TV, the movies, and video games. Let's begin with what you got right. War is not "magical". It is miserable, nasty, and brutal; discomfort, boredom, deprivation, and sheer terror all rolled up in one ugly package. It is not romantic either. That much you got right. McNamara and LBJ didn't give a damn about any of us, we were expendable, written off, like any piece of equipment sent into a combat zone. You got that right.

What you got wrong, is a thing called "Duty". You don't know the meaning of the word, of course, but some of us do. Get this straight; soldiers don't start wars; none of us got to pick and choose which wars we would or would not fight. We took an oath, and we obeyed it, because that is what soldiers do; they trust their superiors to make the right choices for them, and then they live (and die) according to those choices. It does not become a soldier (officers included) to question the order of a superior unless the order is flagrantly and unquestionably unlawful on its face. Anything else, is obeyed now, and reported later.

Whether you believe it or not, we were fighting for freedom, and against communism, which by its own definition is the antithesis of freedom. That "graveyard we left behind", is not free; it has been and remains a communist country, a prison. Go there, and see if you are allowed to run your mouths like you do here. You'd be shot, or sent to a re-education camp. The VC and the NVA were NOT fighting for freedom and liberty (I don't care what they say); they were fighting for soviet-style communism! Our efforts WOULD have produced freedom for the Vietnamese, IF we had been allowed to finish the job (we had beaten them on the battlefield, they knew it, we knew it), and the Left, the lying reporters, and the feckless politicians, took victory from us and gave it to murdering, torturing communist oppressors. Let's be clear; you can either support freedom, or you can support communism; the two are mutually exclusive. To say you support freedom, and also support any form of communism, is a LIE!

You people talk about Hitler; he was evil, but he was an amateur, compared to Stalin and Mao. Communism is the most murderous ideology in the history of this planet. Stalin murdered somewhere between thirty and forty million of his own people. Mao murdered between 60 million and eighty million ; no one really knows. Pol Pot more millions; Ho Chi Minh-more millions; Uncle Ho's so-called freedom fighters killed far more Vietnamese civilians than we ever did. The only good communist, is a dead one, and my wish, is that I could have killed more of them. They were the enemy, and they are still the enemy, so long as any exist, here, or anywhere. I'm glad I fought them, I'm glad I stood up to them, I'm glad I killed them.

I've always said the Vietnam War was a battle in the overall war against Communism. We eventually won that war...No thanks to the liberals who were Communists sympathizers.

 

[MikeK]

Pretty words. Why don't you try using them on the enemy in a firefight, and see how effective they are? I've found bullets and grenades produce a better result, myself. You know what I wish? I wish we could have drafted all your Leftist progenitors, deloused them, dry shaved them, and sent them into combat to do a recon by fire-with their loud vulgar mouths. They'd have gotten killed, of course, but that would have been the only useful thing the Leftist maggots did in their entire sorry lives, saving real soldiers from mines, punji stakes and VC ambushes.

If you're comparing the occcupation of Iraq to the jungle combat conditions in Vietnam you're a few degrees off center.

The kind of insanity that obviously has left a few scars on your psyche was endemic to the fighting in Vietnam, where we lost 58,000, so perhaps Col. West's actions might have been more understandable under those conditions. But Iraq is a much different situation and based on all I've read and heard about conditions there what West did was entirely unnecessary and wholly counterproductive to the existing effort.

Allen West, like Oliver North, was an ambitious, glory-seeking loose cannon with an exaggerated G.I. Joe mentality -- which is why the Army kicked him out.

 

[Jroc]

Pretty words. Why don't you try using them on the enemy in a firefight, and see how effective they are? I've found bullets and grenades produce a better result, myself. You know what I wish? I wish we could have drafted all your Leftist progenitors, deloused them, dry shaved them, and sent them into combat to do a recon by fire-with their loud vulgar mouths. They'd have gotten killed, of course, but that would have been the only useful thing the Leftist maggots did in their entire sorry lives, saving real soldiers from mines, punji stakes and VC ambushes.

If you're comparing the occcupation of Iraq to the jungle combat conditions in Vietnam you're a few degrees off center.

The kind of insanity that obviously has left a few scars on your psyche was endemic to the fighting in Vietnam, where we lost 58,000, so perhaps Col. West's actions might have been more understandable under those conditions. But Iraq is a much different situation and based on all I've read and heard about conditions there what West did was entirely unnecessary and wholly counterproductive to the existing effort.

Allen West, like Oliver North, was an ambitious, glory-seeking loose cannon with an exaggerated G.I. Joe mentality -- which is why the Army kicked him out.

Maybe you should expand your reading material try to get away from the liberal web sites ok? And who the hell are you to trivialize anyone’s combat experiences? just because you don't agree with our mission in Iraq, doesn't give you the right to talk down to our soldiers got it cuz?

 

[MikeK]

[...]Whether you believe it or not, we were fighting for freedom, and against communism, which by its own definition is the antithesis of freedom. That "graveyard we left behind", is not free; it has been and remains a communist country, a prison. Go there, and see if you are allowed to run your mouths like you do here. You'd be shot, or sent to a re-education camp. The VC and the NVA were NOT fighting for freedom and liberty (I don't care what they say); they were fighting for soviet-style communism! Our efforts WOULD have produced freedom for the Vietnamese, IF we had been allowed to finish the job (we had beaten them on the battlefield, they knew it, we knew it), and the Left, the lying reporters, and the feckless politicians, took victory from us and gave it to murdering, torturing communist oppressors. Let's be clear; you can either support freedom, or you can support communism; the two are mutually exclusive. To say you support freedom, and also support any form of communism, is a LIE!

[...]

This is what they fed you and it seems you ate it up and really like the taste. But there is a big hole in the middle of that story and it's this: We walked away from Vietnam. We lost and the communists won -- and so what? How did that affect us? The only effect on America was we stopped wasting blood and treasure on that wholly unnecessary and utterly wrongful military aggression.

The problem is you are in denial. You don't want to face the fact that what you endured in Vietnam was all for nothing. So you need to believe all the nonsense you've been fed about communism. But communism is, by it's very nature, the least possible threat to a wealthy nation like ours. The only nations that resort to the communist form of government are those that emerge from a long and economically devastating war, e.g., Russia and China, because they need that kind of system to survive.

What you need to worry about isn't communism, it's fascism, which begins as an emerging corporatocracy and gradually assumes control of government via systematic bribery -- which is exactly what is happening right here in the USA. And if you think communism is bad, you'd better hope we manage to prevent the total destruction of the American middle class, which at this time is well under way.

Unfortunately for you, while the VA can supply the meds that will keep you from running amok and biting anyone you meet named Charlie there are no pills that will impart an education to you. That's something you'll need to pursue on your own. And unless you do that you are going to remain in the dark for the rest of your life.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Pretty words. Why don't you try using them on the enemy in a firefight, and see how effective they are? I've found bullets and grenades produce a better result, myself. You know what I wish? I wish we could have drafted all your Leftist progenitors, deloused them, dry shaved them, and sent them into combat to do a recon by fire-with their loud vulgar mouths. They'd have gotten killed, of course, but that would have been the only useful thing the Leftist maggots did in their entire sorry lives, saving real soldiers from mines, punji stakes and VC ambushes.

If you're comparing the occcupation of Iraq to the jungle combat conditions in Vietnam you're a few degrees off center.

The kind of insanity that obviously has left a few scars on your psyche was endemic to the fighting in Vietnam, where we lost 58,000, so perhaps Col. West's actions might have been more understandable under those conditions. But Iraq is a much different situation and based on all I've read and heard about conditions there what West did was entirely unnecessary and wholly counterproductive to the existing effort.

Allen West, like Oliver North, was an ambitious, glory-seeking loose cannon with an exaggerated G.I. Joe mentality -- which is why the Army kicked him out.

You made the point, you haven't a clue what conditions were in Iraq......You Have no clue what went on......You haven't faced that enemy face to face......It's like no enemy we've ever faced.

Take your lack of knowledge and run along......You're the last person (fool) who should ever accuse anyone of being a loose cannon. After all, lil' man, you called for a Wisconsin Senator to be dragged from his home and tortured.......Don't even try and deny it, that evidence is still up here for all to see.

 

[The Gadfly]

[...]Whether you believe it or not, we were fighting for freedom, and against communism, which by its own definition is the antithesis of freedom. That "graveyard we left behind", is not free; it has been and remains a communist country, a prison. Go there, and see if you are allowed to run your mouths like you do here. You'd be shot, or sent to a re-education camp. The VC and the NVA were NOT fighting for freedom and liberty (I don't care what they say); they were fighting for soviet-style communism! Our efforts WOULD have produced freedom for the Vietnamese, IF we had been allowed to finish the job (we had beaten them on the battlefield, they knew it, we knew it), and the Left, the lying reporters, and the feckless politicians, took victory from us and gave it to murdering, torturing communist oppressors. Let's be clear; you can either support freedom, or you can support communism; the two are mutually exclusive. To say you support freedom, and also support any form of communism, is a LIE!

[...]

This is what they fed you and it seems you ate it up and really like the taste. But there is a big hole in the middle of that story and it's this: We walked away from Vietnam. We lost and the communists won -- and so what? How did that affect us? The only effect on America was we stopped wasting blood and treasure on that wholly unnecessary and utterly wrongful military aggression.

The problem is you are in denial. You don't want to face the fact that what you endured in Vietnam was all for nothing. So you need to believe all the nonsense you've been fed about communism. But communism is, by it's very nature, the least possible threat to a wealthy nation like ours. The only nations that resort to the communist form of government are those that emerge from a long and economically devastating war, e.g., Russia and China, because they need that kind of system to survive.

What you need to worry about isn't communism, it's fascism, which begins as an emerging corporatocracy and gradually assumes control of government via systematic bribery -- which is exactly what is happening right here in the USA. And if you think communism is bad, you'd better hope we manage to prevent the total destruction of the American middle class, which at this time is well under way.


Unfortunately for you, while the VA can supply the meds that will keep you from running amok and biting anyone you meet named Charlie there are no pills that will impart an education to you. That's something you'll need to pursue on your own. And unless you do that you are going to remain in the dark for the rest of your life.

America walked away from Vietnam, because a left-leaning and sensationalist media deliberately and systematically lied to the American people. Those stinking reporters did everything but repeat Hanoi radio talking points, and wave the VC flag. The leftists in America's streets, openly waved that banner and cheered for an enemy whose communist ideology they shared, and still share today (ask William Ayers is he's still a committed communist)-he openly declares that he is, as are the rest of the Left, no matter how many lies they (and you), tell to cover it up! America walked away from Vietnam, because a bunch of gutless politicians ran scared. America walked away from Vietnam, because the American people, lied to on a daily basis, swallowed the Leftist line. What I "ate up", is the TRUTH, whether it is convenient to you Leftist loons, or not. I don't give a damn what you commie traitors think, you damn spoiled, indoctrinated, snotty little brat! Man up, and soldier up, and I might consider your opinion worth listening to. What the hell do you know of war, you permanent civilian puke? What mommie and daddy told you, or did you get it from your communist professors at whatever college you went to? People like you, are the best argument for a universal draft I've ever seen.

Now, you tell me, what America as a nation, got from quitting, when the war was actually being won on the battlefield. We broke our word as a nation, we lost credibility as a nation, and we are being attacked today, in much the same fashion, because people like you taught the world that Americans are quitters and cowards. Because of people like you and your Leftist progenitors, another generation of soldiers is having to correct that perception all over again. Thankfully, they, like we, are NOT gutless, feckless, un-American commie cowards like you, and the people who taught you that garbage! In short, quitting in Vietnam (done by civilians, NOT soldiers!) hurt America, in the short run, and in the long term; The Left, doesn't care about that; you don't care about that; but I do!

No country needs communism to survive. Fight for communism even against a totalitarian dictatorship, and all you are fighting for, is to exchange one set of chains for another. Ask anyone who's escaped from Cuba, whether they are more free under Castro, than they were under Batista. The answer is a resounding NO! As for me, I don't need your sorry species to affirm what I fought for and my brothers died for, was worthwhile; it was, and the only regret I have is that America quit, and in the process, quit on us.

Don't you condescend to lecture me, you brain-dead twit; I've forgotten more, than you will ever know. On second thought, I do regret one other thing; defending the freedom of people like you to run your pieholes. You misuse it, you abuse it, and in my book, you don't deserve it. Get your nose out of a book, and out of the backsides of other brain dead liberals, long enough to realize what a sorry, worthless, and absolutely useless excuse for an American you are! I support anything you liberals hate, on the perfectly good assumption, that whatever you're for comes from the same worthless sources the rest of your stupidity comes from!

 

[grunt11b]

[...]Whether you believe it or not, we were fighting for freedom, and against communism, which by its own definition is the antithesis of freedom. That "graveyard we left behind", is not free; it has been and remains a communist country, a prison. Go there, and see if you are allowed to run your mouths like you do here. You'd be shot, or sent to a re-education camp. The VC and the NVA were NOT fighting for freedom and liberty (I don't care what they say); they were fighting for soviet-style communism! Our efforts WOULD have produced freedom for the Vietnamese, IF we had been allowed to finish the job (we had beaten them on the battlefield, they knew it, we knew it), and the Left, the lying reporters, and the feckless politicians, took victory from us and gave it to murdering, torturing communist oppressors. Let's be clear; you can either support freedom, or you can support communism; the two are mutually exclusive. To say you support freedom, and also support any form of communism, is a LIE!

[...]

This is what they fed you and it seems you ate it up and really like the taste. But there is a big hole in the middle of that story and it's this: We walked away from Vietnam. We lost and the communists won -- and so what? How did that affect us? The only effect on America was we stopped wasting blood and treasure on that wholly unnecessary and utterly wrongful military aggression.

The problem is you are in denial. You don't want to face the fact that what you endured in Vietnam was all for nothing. So you need to believe all the nonsense you've been fed about communism. But communism is, by it's very nature, the least possible threat to a wealthy nation like ours. The only nations that resort to the communist form of government are those that emerge from a long and economically devastating war, e.g., Russia and China, because they need that kind of system to survive.

What you need to worry about isn't communism, it's fascism, which begins as an emerging corporatocracy and gradually assumes control of government via systematic bribery -- which is exactly what is happening right here in the USA. And if you think communism is bad, you'd better hope we manage to prevent the total destruction of the American middle class, which at this time is well under way.


Unfortunately for you, while the VA can supply the meds that will keep you from running amok and biting anyone you meet named Charlie there are no pills that will impart an education to you. That's something you'll need to pursue on your own. And unless you do that you are going to remain in the dark for the rest of your life.

America walked away from Vietnam, because a left-leaning and sensationalist media deliberately and systematically lied to the American people. Those stinking reporters did everything but repeat Hanoi radio talking points, and wave the VC flag. The leftists in America's streets, openly waved that banner and cheered for an enemy whose communist ideology they shared, and still share today (ask William Ayers is he's still a committed communist)-he openly declares that he is, as are the rest of the Left, no matter how many lies they (and you), tell to cover it up! America walked away from Vietnam, because a bunch of gutless politicians ran scared. America walked away from Vietnam, because the American people, lied to on a daily basis, swallowed the Leftist line. What I "ate up", is the TRUTH, whether it is convenient to you Leftist loons, or not. I don't give a damn what you commie traitors think, you damn spoiled, indoctrinated, snotty little brat! Man up, and soldier up, and I might consider your opinion worth listening to. What the hell do you know of war, you permanent civilian puke? What mommie and daddy told you, or did you get it from your communist professors at whatever college you went to? People like you, are the best argument for a universal draft I've ever seen.

Now, you tell me, what America as a nation, got from quitting, when the war was actually being won on the battlefield. We broke our word as a nation, we lost credibility as a nation, and we are being attacked today, in much the same fashion, because people like you taught the world that Americans are quitters and cowards. Because of people like you and your Leftist progenitors, another generation of soldiers is having to correct that perception all over again. Thankfully, they, like we, are NOT gutless, feckless, un-American commie cowards like you, and the people who taught you that garbage! In short, quitting in Vietnam (done by civilians, NOT soldiers!) hurt America, in the short run, and in the long term; The Left, doesn't care about that; you don't care about that; but I do!

No country needs communism to survive. Fight for communism even against a totalitarian dictatorship, and all you are fighting for, is to exchange one set of chains for another. Ask anyone who's escaped from Cuba, whether they are more free under Castro, than they were under Batista. The answer is a resounding NO! As for me, I don't need your sorry species to affirm what I fought for and my brothers died for, was worthwhile; it was, and the only regret I have is that America quit, and in the process, quit on us.

Don't you condescend to lecture me, you brain-dead twit; I've forgotten more, than you will ever know. On second thought, I do regret one other thing; defending the freedom of people like you to run your pieholes. You misuse it, you abuse it, and in my book, you don't deserve it. Get your nose out of a book, and out of the backsides of other brain dead liberals, long enough to realize what a sorry, worthless, and absolutely useless excuse for an American you are! I support anything you liberals hate, on the perfectly good assumption, that whatever you're for comes from the same worthless sources the rest of your stupidity comes from!

Well said brother.

 

[MikeK]

America walked away from Vietnam, because a left-leaning and sensationalist media deliberately and systematically lied to the American people. Those stinking reporters did everything but repeat Hanoi radio talking points, and wave the VC flag. The leftists in America's streets, openly waved that banner and cheered for an enemy whose communist ideology they shared, and still share today (ask William Ayers is he's still a committed communist)-he openly declares that he is, as are the rest of the Left, no matter how many lies they (and you), tell to cover it up! America walked away from Vietnam, because a bunch of gutless politicians ran scared. America walked away from Vietnam, because the American people, lied to on a daily basis, swallowed the Leftist line. What I "ate up", is the TRUTH, whether it is convenient to you Leftist loons, or not. I don't give a damn what you commie traitors think, you damn spoiled, indoctrinated, snotty little brat! Man up, and soldier up, and I might consider your opinion worth listening to. What the hell do you know of war, you permanent civilian puke? What mommie and daddy told you, or did you get it from your communist professors at whatever college you went to? People like you, are the best argument for a universal draft I've ever seen.

Now, you tell me, what America as a nation, got from quitting, when the war was actually being won on the battlefield. We broke our word as a nation, we lost credibility as a nation, and we are being attacked today, in much the same fashion, because people like you taught the world that Americans are quitters and cowards. Because of people like you and your Leftist progenitors, another generation of soldiers is having to correct that perception all over again. Thankfully, they, like we, are NOT gutless, feckless, un-American commie cowards like you, and the people who taught you that garbage! In short, quitting in Vietnam (done by civilians, NOT soldiers!) hurt America, in the short run, and in the long term; The Left, doesn't care about that; you don't care about that; but I do!

No country needs communism to survive. Fight for communism even against a totalitarian dictatorship, and all you are fighting for, is to exchange one set of chains for another. Ask anyone who's escaped from Cuba, whether they are more free under Castro, than they were under Batista. The answer is a resounding NO! As for me, I don't need your sorry species to affirm what I fought for and my brothers died for, was worthwhile; it was, and the only regret I have is that America quit, and in the process, quit on us.

Don't you condescend to lecture me, you brain-dead twit; I've forgotten more, than you will ever know. On second thought, I do regret one other thing; defending the freedom of people like you to run your pieholes. You misuse it, you abuse it, and in my book, you don't deserve it. Get your nose out of a book, and out of the backsides of other brain dead liberals, long enough to realize what a sorry, worthless, and absolutely useless excuse for an American you are! I support anything you liberals hate, on the perfectly good assumption, that whatever you're for comes from the same worthless sources the rest of your stupidity comes from!

I don't expect you to be convinced by anything you read on an Internet forum by some anonymous contributor like me, but the following is excerpted from an article that appeared in the Los Angeles Times and deals with the lament of Robert McNamara, the man who is significantly responsible for every death and maiming and all of the miseries endured by you and other naive young men in the fiasco that was our involvement in Vietnam. So read the whole article and let us know what your thoughts are.

(Excerpt)

[...]

But perhaps the greatest legacy of McNamara's tenure -- one that could echo in the post-mortems over President George W. Bush's war in Iraq -- is that in later years he disavowed his decisions, particularly his conviction that if Vietnam fell to communism other Southeast Asia nations would also be vulnerable. "We were wrong, terribly wrong," he said. "We owe it to future generations to explain why."

It isn't often you hear a major public official acknowledge mistakes of his own making, but two decades after the last helicopter lifted off the roof of the U.S. Embassy in Saigon with loyalists rushing to get aboard and communism, McNamara began to speak out.

He gave a series of interviews at UC Berkeley in which he confessed he no longer believed in the domino theory. "It was certainly the conventional wisdom among the foreign policy establishment," he said. "I think we were wrong, and certainly misjudged it."

[...]

More here: Robert McNamara, architect of Vietnam War whose regrets made him opponent of Iraq War, dies at 93 | Top of the Ticket | Los Angeles Times

 

[mudwhistle]

Pretty words. Why don't you try using them on the enemy in a firefight, and see how effective they are? I've found bullets and grenades produce a better result, myself. You know what I wish? I wish we could have drafted all your Leftist progenitors, deloused them, dry shaved them, and sent them into combat to do a recon by fire-with their loud vulgar mouths. They'd have gotten killed, of course, but that would have been the only useful thing the Leftist maggots did in their entire sorry lives, saving real soldiers from mines, punji stakes and VC ambushes.

If you're comparing the occcupation of Iraq to the jungle combat conditions in Vietnam you're a few degrees off center.

The kind of insanity that obviously has left a few scars on your psyche was endemic to the fighting in Vietnam, where we lost 58,000, so perhaps Col. West's actions might have been more understandable under those conditions. But Iraq is a much different situation and based on all I've read and heard about conditions there what West did was entirely unnecessary and wholly counterproductive to the existing effort.

Allen West, like Oliver North, was an ambitious, glory-seeking loose cannon with an exaggerated G.I. Joe mentality -- which is why the Army kicked him out.

It doesn't matter the climate, the harsh reality of possible death around the next corner can be tough for some to deal with. Fear of the unknown is key in any war.

I'm not gonna criticize somebody who took the initiative and mind-fucked the enemy. I especially take umrage at anyone who ignores the full story while defending our enemies.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I'm not gonna criticize somebody who took the initiative and mind-fucked the enemy. I especially take umrage at anyone who ignores the full story while defending our enemies.

MikeK and you have vastly different enemies. His allies are your enemies, as you and all of the middle class (bourgeoisie) are his enemy.

 

[MikeK]

MikeK and you have vastly different enemies. His allies are your enemies, as you and all of the middle class (bourgeoisie) are his enemy.

How can that be? I am as middle class as it gets.

My enemies are the brainwashed bottom-feeders who rally in defense of the super-rich, who are the true enemies of the American ideal. My enemies are the petty jingoists and war lovers who never fought and never would but who pound the drum because that's what tribal creatures do. My allies are those with the intelligence to know right from wrong and are not afraid to speak their minds.

 

[digger]

Jroc and Jester are not responding to the points that they disagree with. They describe the point by saying what ideological framework they believe it falls under. Then they pick other thoughts that they believe fall under the same ideological framework. Then they attack their straw men, and high five each other.

I'll give it to you, Gadfly. I don't agree with you on a lot of things. But at least you're having a real conversation.

 

[Wicked Jester]

MikeK and you have vastly different enemies. His allies are your enemies, as you and all of the middle class (bourgeoisie) are his enemy.

How can that be? I am as middle class as it gets.

My enemies are the brainwashed bottom-feeders who rally in defense of the super-rich, who are the true enemies of the American ideal. My enemies are the petty jingoists and war lovers who never fought and never would but who pound the drum because that's what tribal creatures do. My allies are those with the intelligence to know right from wrong and are not afraid to speak their minds.

You left out:

My allies also believe that pulling a Republican State Senator from his home and torturing him is perfectly fine.

You're not fooling anybody. You're a far left wing loony idiot, nothing more.