Agnostics

[Gracie]

What I can't figure out, though, is how anyone could be so arrogant as to believe that they're "right" and that they're the ones who've got it figured out...

"Right" about what, precisely? For example, most faiths teach love of others. Is that arrogance? What is wrong about loving others?

Well, compare all of the world's religions; Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, etc. Followers of each profess that the way they practice their belief in "God" is the only correct way to practice a belief in "God".

I chose to stop when I reached the age of reason.

Any specific issue for choosing to leave your faith?

I can wrap my head around the idea of a supreme being, I suppose.

What I can't figure out, though, is how anyone could be so arrogant as to believe that they're "right" and that they're the ones who've got it figured out...

If you don't think what you believe is right, then why would you believe it?

And therein lies the crux of the issue. I believe it's the height of arrogance and conceit for anyone to proclaim "I got this whole 'God" thing figured out"...

Agreed. There surely must be more than one path to God even if there is only one God, one Creator of life. Otherwise, it would mean that we've been thoroughly played by some evil game player which knew in advance that humans would have conflicting religious upbringings as an omnipotent God would know.

There are many many paths to God. Sometimes He walks with you and you know it...and sometimes its dark and scarey and you don't feel his presence but He is there at the end. Keep on truckin' on your path. You will meet others, but that path branches out and will lose them along the way but pick up more than cross yours. Each one you meet, has something to need to hear or see or witness and they from you. I think that is why there are so many paths.

 

[Meister]

Another reason I stopped going was the tithing. Here are people in their sunday best, which mostly came from thrift stores or hand me downs, barely surviving, and giving what they could so the guy standing up at the pulpit can continue to drive his cadillac and live in his big fancy house, with perfectly coiffed hair and his wife wearing a nice strand of pearls in an expensive outfit with kids **** and span in their new clothes. It bothered me. And I wondered. Look at Olsteen. Multi billionaire, but he closed his church doors during that texas flood and only opened them when news reports came out it was closed. Hearsay was he just had new carpeting and flooring installed and didn't want it messed up. Or other preachers on tv where people send in millions.

Something is very wrong with that.

I call them Pharisees, they know about God and preach the Lord's words, but they don't KNOW God.
And, He doesn't know them.

Matthew 7:22-23

On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

 

[JustAGuy1]

What I can't figure out, though, is how anyone could be so arrogant as to believe that they're "right" and that they're the ones who've got it figured out...

"Right" about what, precisely? For example, most faiths teach love of others. Is that arrogance? What is wrong about loving others?

Well, compare all of the world's religions; Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, etc. Followers of each profess that the way they practice their belief in "God" is the only correct way to practice a belief in "God".

I chose to stop when I reached the age of reason.

Any specific issue for choosing to leave your faith?

I can wrap my head around the idea of a supreme being, I suppose.

What I can't figure out, though, is how anyone could be so arrogant as to believe that they're "right" and that they're the ones who've got it figured out...

If you don't think what you believe is right, then why would you believe it?

And therein lies the crux of the issue. I believe it's the height of arrogance and conceit for anyone to proclaim "I got this whole 'God" thing figured out"...

Agreed. There surely must be more than one path to God even if there is only one God, one Creator of life. Otherwise, it would mean that we've been thoroughly played by some evil game player which knew in advance that humans would have conflicting religious upbringings as an omnipotent God would know.

There are many many paths to God. Sometimes He walks with you and you know it...and sometimes its dark and scarey and you don't feel his presence but He is there at the end. Keep on truckin' on your path. You will meet others, but that path branches out and will lose them along the way but pick up more than cross yours. Each one you meet, has something to need to hear or see or witness and they from you. I think that is why there are so many paths.

There is one way to God and that is through Jesus Christ, of course that is if you are trying to get to the one true God. There are many gods.

 

[Meriweather]

Just my personal opinion, but I think for the past 2000 years, there has been silence and humans that have faith NEED a sign or something. Which makes their faith fade. God used to walk amongst us, and then Jesus came. Since then...nothing. So they seek but cannot find within their own hearts, so then revert to not believing any more.

Or they see...but do not believe. Ears closed, eyes closed even if spoken to in some form or another from Him.

How many people saw Jesus? Remember his comment: A prophet is not accepted in his home town.

Here in this thread there have been at least three of us who have been given signs or experiences. What has been the reaction from others when we share these amazing events? God still walks in our midst. These experiences cannot be shared in schools, often not even in public. While I love rites of worship, how often do we talk in public about personal events? And when people do, how often are the brushed aside?

 

[JustAGuy1]

Just my personal opinion, but I think for the past 2000 years, there has been silence and humans that have faith NEED a sign or something. Which makes their faith fade. God used to walk amongst us, and then Jesus came. Since then...nothing. So they seek but cannot find within their own hearts, so then revert to not believing any more.

Or they see...but do not believe. Ears closed, eyes closed even if spoken to in some form or another from Him.

How many people saw Jesus? Remember his comment: A prophet is not accepted in his home town.

Here in this thread there have been at least three of us who have been given signs or experiences. What has been the reaction from others when we share these amazing events? God still walks in our midst. These experiences cannot be shared in schools, often not even in public. While I love rites of worship, how often do we talk in public about personal events? And when people do, how often are the brushed aside?

4 of us.

 

[anynameyouwish]

I was agnostic right up until I was 15. An event happened in my life, and I've never looked back
to questioning if there is a God or not. God is good

how does he feel about gays?
unbelievers?
wiccans?
men who shave?
women who have sex outside of marriage?
people who wear clothing made from mixed materials?
plain m+ms v pnut?

 

[JustAGuy1]

I was agnostic right up until I was 15. An event happened in my life, and I've never looked back
to questioning if there is a God or not. God is good

how does he feel about gays?
unbelievers?
wiccans?
men who shave?
women who have sex outside of marriage?
people who wear clothing made from mixed materials?
plain m+ms v pnut?

He loves them all. That does not abrogate judgement.

 

[Meriweather]

I rejected the idea that anyone should do the right thing out of fear of punishment as a teenager. It just doesn't make sense that goodness needs to add a fear factor in there. In my mind, adding the threat of hell only forces certain people to do the right thing which takes out the whole "true goodness" element all together...kind of like when I was forced to go to church and was physically there but mentally/spiritually not the case. The underlying motive of one's actions always matters.

The Catholic Church is much more formal and sedate than Evangelicals and Pentecostals. Even so, I've always thought that Neil Diamond's Song "Brother Love's Traveling Salvation Show" captures what community worship is all about...Pack up the babies and grab the old ladies and everyone goes... It is not about fear, but about family gathering and community gathering. The song captures what faith is all about, every Sabbath, every Sunday for all faiths:

Now you got yourself two good hands
And when your brother is troubled,
You gotta reach out your one hand for him
'Cause that's what it's there for
And when your heart is troubled,
You gotta reach out your other hand
Reach it out to the man up there
'Cause that's what he's there for

Take my hand in yours
Walk with me this day
In my heart I know
I will never stray

 

[anynameyouwish]

I was agnostic right up until I was 15. An event happened in my life, and I've never looked back
to questioning if there is a God or not. God is good

how does he feel about gays?
unbelievers?
wiccans?
men who shave?
women who have sex outside of marriage?
people who wear clothing made from mixed materials?
plain m+ms v pnut?

He loves them all. That does not abrogate judgement.

so you are saying that evangelicals are wrong

 

[Meriweather]

In answer to your question, I was still going to church when I lost my belief and felt like an imposter. I've never accepted the OT as coming from a loving God, a Creator of life to give the gift of life and rule with an iron hand doesn't match up. I consider the OT to be allegorical stories, and most people of that early time period needed these strict type of stories to encourage living "under the law of God" as opposed to living "under the grace of God". We're still basically primitive, continuing to use might/wars as a means to settle things is proof, but back then people needed moral guidance just to act right and treat their neighbors fairly.

The Old Testament gets a bad rap. After an experience of God and His amazing love, I questioned whether Old Testament authors and prophets understood God at all. To truly understand the Old Testament modern English culture and translations need to be set aside. These accounts are not newspaper nor Encyclopedia facts. They are not science texts. They are stories with themes and lessons. The more I dug deep, the more I studied, I came to the conclusion that our ancestors were amazing souls of great intelligence. Christians should read rabbinical commentaries from as far back as possible. Read from the perspective of the proper time, culture, history, and language, God's love indeed shines through. But it takes more than one day a week to see this--it takes even more than 1 day a week times 52 weeks times 52 years. As a result so much is lost and we English speaking modern people have little clue to what Old Testament accounts are saying and teaching.

 

[Meriweather]

I continue to have, like most curious types, many questions that were never answered to confirm the existence of a Creator-although I realize that's where faith comes in and I fall short. I'm open to accepting all new information as it's presented. There's a ton of new information just on the horizon, information that we at the current moment cannot even predict. Now that we've developed the tools (better telescopes appropriately placed and working in unison) and going back in time witnessing the birth of stars (which blows my mind completely, and I would imagine pretty mind-blowing to many well-versed in science as well) who knows what truths will be discovered in the near future. Knowledge is reportedly doubling every 6 months-amazing!

We also need to be able to separate the spiritual from the physical. Science is amazing, but its boundaries are the physical world. There is so much to explore here, but we also need people interesting in pushing beyond physical boundaries into the spiritual. I think of it as if we only had land explorers, the new world would not have been found when it was. We needed those willing to go beyond the land into the sea; just like we needed those willing to go beyond the earth into space; just like we need those who push beyond the physical into the spiritual.

 

[Meriweather]

Sorry to be so long-winded as I'm not good at being concise. The origins of life is something I think about almost daily. Thank you for your post

No need to be sorry! I am enjoying this. As many (including Mark Twain) noted: "If I had more time, I would have made this shorter."

 

[JustAGuy1]

I was agnostic right up until I was 15. An event happened in my life, and I've never looked back
to questioning if there is a God or not. God is good

how does he feel about gays?
unbelievers?
wiccans?
men who shave?
women who have sex outside of marriage?
people who wear clothing made from mixed materials?
plain m+ms v pnut?

He loves them all. That does not abrogate judgement.

so you are saying that evangelicals are wrong

That's a fairly broad brush there Skippy.

You don't know much about Christianity do you?

 

[Meriweather]

Just my opinion. I’ve been a spiritual atheist for many years. I really have no problem with commandments 2-10. Pretty good list, actually.

The first one can be a challenge. For example, most of my life I've thought that I'd be fine with whenever God decided my time on earth was up. However, there was about a decade when I was fiercely against this. I wanted to be with my children, my children needed ME. Yes, God still had priority for me as long as I was with my children, which kind of means it was my children who had priority, doesn't it? But other than that, putting God and God's ways first has made life a blessing.

 

[Meriweather]

I stopped because I never believed in the idea of Church and believe it is a sham to make people rich off the poor gullibility...

I do not know if there is a divine or not but I do not believe in Church for sure!

Do you believe this about the smaller and simpler parish church?

 

[Meriweather]

Well, compare all of the world's religions; Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, etc. Followers of each profess that the way they practice their belief in "God" is the only correct way to practice a belief in "God".

Actually, the Catholic position is that they only have the authority to pass on what Jesus taught. They were not given the authority to approve or disapprove of any other faith or denomination.

 

[Meriweather]

I believe it's the height of arrogance and conceit for anyone to proclaim "I got this whole 'God" thing figured out"...

Who has proclaimed this? Is it possible that it could be an interpretation of something that was said?

I'll quote Alan Greenspan:
I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

 

[Meriweather]

I stopped going when I started thinking.
I still went occasionally for my grandparents but thats it.
I dont doubt a suoreme being. I doubt the abraham god. Too many inconsistencies, violence, hatred, jealousy, selfishness, ripoffs from previous religions and falsehoods. If there is a supreme being, he wouldnt act like that, I would think.

And He doesn't. Today we misunderstand what was written so many thousands of years ago.

 

[Meriweather]

It worked the other way for me. I determined that organized religions were mere traditions without any validity and since they were the sole source of knowledge of the God of the Bible, I realized I was an atheist, I was 12. However, as I learned about the Big Bang I realized it was impossible to say if there was a creator or not so I was ALSO an agnostic. I've been both ever since as I've never encountered anything to change my views.

What kind of encounter might change your views?

 

[Meriweather]

Another reason I stopped going was the tithing. Here are people in their sunday best, which mostly came from thrift stores or hand me downs, barely surviving, and giving what they could so the guy standing up at the pulpit can continue to drive his cadillac and live in his big fancy house, with perfectly coiffed hair and his wife wearing a nice strand of pearls in an expensive outfit with kids **** and span in their new clothes. It bothered me. And I wondered. Look at Olsteen. Multi billionaire, but he closed his church doors during that texas flood and only opened them when news reports came out it was closed. Hearsay was he just had new carpeting and flooring installed and didn't want it messed up. Or other preachers on tv where people send in millions.

Something is very wrong with that.

Agree. But Olsteen did take that second opportunity to open his doors.