Agnostics

[Hellbilly]

The first one can be a challenge. For example, most of my life I've thought that I'd be fine with whenever God decided my time on earth was up. However, there was about a decade when I was fiercely against this. I wanted to be with my children, my children needed ME. Yes, God still had priority for me as long as I was with my children, which kind of means it was my children who had priority, doesn't it? But other than that, putting God and God's ways first has made life a blessing.

You seem like a nice person. Not much of that around here. The only real issue I have with religion has nothing to do with religion itself. It's about me. I have a medical condition that prevents me from trusting people. It's called Pistanthrophobia, and I've had it all my life. I figure if your going to be religious, you kinda need to be able to trust. I can't.

 

[alang1216]

It worked the other way for me. I determined that organized religions were mere traditions without any validity and since they were the sole source of knowledge of the God of the Bible, I realized I was an atheist, I was 12. However, as I learned about the Big Bang I realized it was impossible to say if there was a creator or not so I was ALSO an agnostic. I've been both ever since as I've never encountered anything to change my views.

What kind of encounter might change your views?

To believe in the supernatural I'd have to experience the supernatural. I never have. There are miracles throughout the Bible, how about one for me? Maybe a burning bush? Even a small one would do, just so it offers no natural explanation.

 

[TNHarley]

I stopped going when I started thinking.
I still went occasionally for my grandparents but thats it.
I dont doubt a suoreme being. I doubt the abraham god. Too many inconsistencies, violence, hatred, jealousy, selfishness, ripoffs from previous religions and falsehoods. If there is a supreme being, he wouldnt act like that, I would think.

And He doesn't. Today we misunderstand what was written so many thousands of years ago.

What do you mean, my man?

 

[Meriweather]

how does he feel about gays?
unbelievers?
wiccans?
men who shave?
women who have sex outside of marriage?
people who wear clothing made from mixed materials?
plain m+ms v pnut?

God is love. What do we want for those we love? We want the ideal. If those we love do not meet that ideal, we still love them; we want to help them. I know people say, They are not called the Ten Suggestions, but I look at it this way: If someone posts a sign, "Beware, Quicksand" it is not because they are hoping you will ignore the sign and sink to your death. They basically want to extend a helping hand they hope you will take.

Mixing fabrics back in Biblical times was a good way to find oneself walking around with torn clothing. Shaving in that day and age was making a statement that they chose a more undisciplined way of life. A few days ago in our own time, another person chose that undisciplined way of life, and as a result killed two children and their dad. No one wants this fate on any undisciplined person--not then, certainly not now.

 

[Meriweather]

To believe in the supernatural I'd have to experience the supernatural. I never have. There are miracles throughout the Bible, how about one for me? Maybe a burning bush? Even a small one would do, just so it offers no natural explanation.

As someone who has experienced the supernatural, I advise to think this through. Think of the most amazing thing that you have done with the realization that this was a one-time experience. There may be few, if any more, like it. I have often had the rueful thought that there is a reason there are so few supernatural experiences: It cannot help but be the most addicting event ever...and it only lasted seconds, a minute or two at the most.

Jesus observed, "Blessed are they who have not seen yet believe." Take my word on this. They are indeed blessed.

 

[Meriweather]

What do you mean, my man?

I mean we can lack true understanding of what was written and why. Who was the original author? Who was his original audience? What lesson/theme was he presenting? (Clue: It wasn't about a God who is mean.)

 

[ClaireH]

In answer to your question, I was still going to church when I lost my belief and felt like an imposter. I've never accepted the OT as coming from a loving God, a Creator of life to give the gift of life and rule with an iron hand doesn't match up. I consider the OT to be allegorical stories, and most people of that early time period needed these strict type of stories to encourage living "under the law of God" as opposed to living "under the grace of God". We're still basically primitive, continuing to use might/wars as a means to settle things is proof, but back then people needed moral guidance just to act right and treat their neighbors fairly.

The Old Testament gets a bad rap. After an experience of God and His amazing love, I questioned whether Old Testament authors and prophets understood God at all. To truly understand the Old Testament modern English culture and translations need to be set aside. These accounts are not newspaper nor Encyclopedia facts. They are not science texts. They are stories with themes and lessons. The more I dug deep, the more I studied, I came to the conclusion that our ancestors were amazing souls of great intelligence. Christians should read rabbinical commentaries from as far back as possible. Read from the perspective of the proper time, culture, history, and language, God's love indeed shines through. But it takes more than one day a week to see this--it takes even more than 1 day a week times 52 weeks times 52 years. As a result so much is lost and we English speaking modern people have little clue to what Old Testament accounts are saying and teaching.

I will get out my digging tools and research early religious writings as you've suggested. I needed a nice, consuming type of project so thanks

There were indeed many amazing minds during earlier time periods, with very little tools to use comparatively speaking in which to use to learn. Archaeological findings currently underway are finding older and older relics and evidence of earlier civilizations...fascinating stuff to say the least.

Until recently, I used to think that the main thing in life was to learn as much as possible about, well everything. I changed my mind about that after hearing a guy on a TED talk state that even though he's considered one of the top in his field (quantum physics I believe it was) that he only knows about .0000001 percent of what there is to know in his field. I pretty much hung that knowledge is the key to life goal up on the fence at that point. If knowledge isn't the "ultimate" purpose for humans, I'm going with spirituality. I know people who are spiritual who believe in God, and others who are spiritual who do not.

If personally connecting to the bigger picture of existence, and for many the connection with God, is good for humanity (which I believe it is), it follows that individual efforts to promote a connectedness to life is "good". Now, I feel inclined to add here that I am not a One World Order type; my use of the phrase "efforts to promote a connectedness to life" could be misunderstood to mean something I didn't mean to imply, but it happens

 

[Taz]

When you recognized you're agnostic, did you continue to join community worship, or did you stop going? Why did you choose to either continue to attend church or stop attending church?

I’ve always been agnostic and stopped attending church as soon as my parents let me. Maybe 10 years old or so.

 

[Taz]

The first one can be a challenge. For example, most of my life I've thought that I'd be fine with whenever God decided my time on earth was up. However, there was about a decade when I was fiercely against this. I wanted to be with my children, my children needed ME. Yes, God still had priority for me as long as I was with my children, which kind of means it was my children who had priority, doesn't it? But other than that, putting God and God's ways first has made life a blessing.

You seem like a nice person. Not much of that around here. The only real issue I have with religion has nothing to do with religion itself. It's about me. I have a medical condition that prevents me from trusting people. It's called Pistanthrophobia, and I've had it all my life. I figure if your going to be religious, you kinda need to be able to trust. I can't.

It’s usually triggered by a bad experience. What was yours?

 

[Picaro]

When you recognized you're agnostic, did you continue to join community worship, or did you stop going? Why did you choose to either continue to attend church or stop attending church?

I used to identify as atheist, but in the last 3 decades that term has acquired negative connotations due to the general idiocy of a majority of those who self-identify as 'atheists' so I now go by 'agnostic', but in any case I don't recall every being a genuine 'believer' even as a small child. I grew up in a 'mixed' family with a vareity of beliefs, so I've always been comfortable around religious people of all kinds, and there were always lots of books on religion on the shelves as well as histories and subjects like Archeology and Anthropology, so I grew up with a sound education and sense of the history and sociological benefits of comparative religious studies.

As kids we would go to Baptist church services with my grandparents on my mother's side and synagogue with my grandparents on my father's side and Mass with a couple of aunts in the family. Most of the family did so out of tradition and respect for relatives, and I'm that way today, going with friends and family members for whom religion is important and for social reasons, especially on the various holidays. Christians are on the whole pretty great as a body, regardless of sectarian differences and assorted stresses on them. My wife is religious and so is my daughter and daughters-in-law, and I'm fine with that, doesn't bother me at all. So, yes, I still attend church, several of them, but I wouldn't call it worship.

The 'books' of the bible were written by some very smart and wise people, not idiots, not fraudsters, not con men; I have the highest respect for the writers and what they were trying to say and do. No other ancient writings come close to its comprehensiveness and genius re human nature, literature, politics, philosophy, and historical narratives.

 

[LittleNipper]

The first one can be a challenge. For example, most of my life I've thought that I'd be fine with whenever God decided my time on earth was up. However, there was about a decade when I was fiercely against this. I wanted to be with my children, my children needed ME. Yes, God still had priority for me as long as I was with my children, which kind of means it was my children who had priority, doesn't it? But other than that, putting God and God's ways first has made life a blessing.

You seem like a nice person. Not much of that around here. The only real issue I have with religion has nothing to do with religion itself. It's about me. I have a medical condition that prevents me from trusting people. It's called Pistanthrophobia, and I've had it all my life. I figure if your going to be religious, you kinda need to be able to trust. I can't.

You realize that GOD can overcome this. However, you must ask HIM. Who knows, what you admitted maybe the first step. Talk to HIM about it. HE wont tell anyone.

 

[LittleNipper]

When you recognized you're agnostic, did you continue to join community worship, or did you stop going? Why did you choose to either continue to attend church or stop attending church?

I’ve always been agnostic and stopped attending church as soon as my parents let me. Maybe 10 years old or so.

Far too early. I became saved when I was 12. Of course, my parents also attended services, and my dad was a Sunday School teacher ---- though not mine...

 

[Meriweather]

I used to identify as atheist, but in the last 3 decades that term has acquired negative connotations due to the general idiocy of a majority of those who self-identify as 'atheists' so I now go by 'agnostic', but in any case I don't recall every being a genuine 'believer' even as a small child. I grew up in a 'mixed' family with a vareity of beliefs, so I've always been comfortable around religious people of all kinds, and there were always lots of books on religion on the shelves as well as histories and subjects like Archeology and Anthropology, so I grew up with a sound education and sense of the history and sociological benefits of comparative religious studies.

As kids we would go to Baptist church services with my grandparents on my mother's side and synagogue with my grandparents on my father's side and Mass with a couple of aunts in the family. Most of the family did so out of tradition and respect for relatives, and I'm that way today, going with friends and family members for whom religion is important and for social reasons, especially on the various holidays. Christians are on the whole pretty great as a body, regardless of sectarian differences and assorted stresses on them. My wife is religious and so is my daughter and daughters-in-law, and I'm fine with that, doesn't bother me at all. So, yes, I still attend church, several of them, but I wouldn't call it worship.

The 'books' of the bible were written by some very smart and wise people, not idiots, not fraudsters, not con men; I have the highest respect for the writers and what they were trying to say and do. No other ancient writings come close to its comprehensiveness and genius re human nature, literature, politics, philosophy, and historical narratives.

What a great synopsis. Sounds like you have, and always had, a wonderful family.

 

[Picaro]

I used to identify as atheist, but in the last 3 decades that term has acquired negative connotations due to the general idiocy of a majority of those who self-identify as 'atheists' so I now go by 'agnostic', but in any case I don't recall every being a genuine 'believer' even as a small child. I grew up in a 'mixed' family with a vareity of beliefs, so I've always been comfortable around religious people of all kinds, and there were always lots of books on religion on the shelves as well as histories and subjects like Archeology and Anthropology, so I grew up with a sound education and sense of the history and sociological benefits of comparative religious studies.

As kids we would go to Baptist church services with my grandparents on my mother's side and synagogue with my grandparents on my father's side and Mass with a couple of aunts in the family. Most of the family did so out of tradition and respect for relatives, and I'm that way today, going with friends and family members for whom religion is important and for social reasons, especially on the various holidays. Christians are on the whole pretty great as a body, regardless of sectarian differences and assorted stresses on them. My wife is religious and so is my daughter and daughters-in-law, and I'm fine with that, doesn't bother me at all. So, yes, I still attend church, several of them, but I wouldn't call it worship.

The 'books' of the bible were written by some very smart and wise people, not idiots, not fraudsters, not con men; I have the highest respect for the writers and what they were trying to say and do. No other ancient writings come close to its comprehensiveness and genius re human nature, literature, politics, philosophy, and historical narratives.

What a great synopsis. Sounds like you have, and always had, a wonderful family.

lol we argued at the table constantly over politics, religion, foreign policy, best breeds of dogs, etc.; we enjoyed it, though some of those who married into the famliy took years to get used to it.

 

[LittleNipper]

It worked the other way for me. I determined that organized religions were mere traditions without any validity and since they were the sole source of knowledge of the God of the Bible, I realized I was an atheist, I was 12. However, as I learned about the Big Bang I realized it was impossible to say if there was a creator or not so I was ALSO an agnostic. I've been both ever since as I've never encountered anything to change my views.

What kind of encounter might change your views?

To believe in the supernatural I'd have to experience the supernatural. I never have. There are miracles throughout the Bible, how about one for me? Maybe a burning bush? Even a small one would do, just so it offers no natural explanation.

What do you consider miraculous? Surviving a collision with a telephone pole, or narrowly being missed by a falling tree? Maybe it's walking home from school and arriving moments before a violent storm broke or perhaps making it to the shore before the ice gave way?
What about not being burned or blinded by a firecracker exploding inside a molten burning plastic model plane, or getting home unscathed driving drunk and not remembering doing it? How about driving to and from college 7 hours each way and finding out that the radiator and front end of the car being driven were completely separated (the frame had rotted through) but didn't know it until after safely arriving home? What about losing a job; however, the money was still there to pay the mortgage and taxes and put food on the table besides? What about finding a job while wanting another, and finding out that the position really desired was at a place that would close a year later? Maybe it's remembering one's lines in a play and overcoming total stage fright to complete a memorable performance, or not engaging in a fight when the bully failed to show up! What about the woman who had every cause for divorce and yet gave it another go, or a baby being born to a couple who had been trying for years...
We really do trivialize so many things and cast them aside, and yet one could very well have missed a miracle.

 

[Hellbilly]

It’s usually triggered by a bad experience. What was yours?

I would rather not go in to detail on an open forum. To be honest I don't remember it, as I was a baby. The only reason I know what I know is because my mother told me about it when I reached manhood. Bottom line I should have died as a baby at the hands of my father.

 

[TNHarley]

What do you mean, my man?

I mean we can lack true understanding of what was written and why. Who was the original author? Who was his original audience? What lesson/theme was he presenting? (Clue: It wasn't about a God who is mean.)

Id say his actions were pretty darn mean. And other negative characteristic i pointed out earlier.

 

[norwegen]

What do you mean, my man?

I mean we can lack true understanding of what was written and why. Who was the original author? Who was his original audience? What lesson/theme was he presenting? (Clue: It wasn't about a God who is mean.)

Id say his actions were pretty darn mean. And other negative characteristic i pointed out earlier.

Adam and Moses were generations of idolatrous people; their deity was largely indistinguishable from other deities. "None is righteous," lamented David. "No, not one."

God was easy to blame for atrocities that the people themselves committed (or that were mere acts of nature).

 

[TNHarley]

What do you mean, my man?

I mean we can lack true understanding of what was written and why. Who was the original author? Who was his original audience? What lesson/theme was he presenting? (Clue: It wasn't about a God who is mean.)

Id say his actions were pretty darn mean. And other negative characteristic i pointed out earlier.

Adam and Moses were generations of idolatrous people; their deity was largely indistinguishable from other deities. "None is righteous," lamented David. "No, not one."

God was easy to blame for atrocities that the people themselves committed (or that were mere acts of nature).

I am going by what the bible actually says. Not what people want to believe.

 

[Blues Man]

When you recognized you're agnostic, did you continue to join community worship, or did you stop going? Why did you choose to either continue to attend church or stop attending church?

I've always been of the mind that if there is a supreme all knowing all powerful being that I shouldn't have to attend church for that being to know what's in my heart and mind