Adam sinned, not Eve. Why did Yahweh punish an innocent Eve?

[skews13]

You might want to re read that. Eve was the one manipulated by Satan...then she Manipulated Adam. hmm...i see an analogy there to modern times. It's always this way. 'Eve' is an easy mark for Satan.

Note the order of punishment.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 3 - English Standard Version

The Fall - Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God...

www.biblegateway.com

So Adam was an easily manipulated fool?

Made in Gods own image?

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Adam was an easily manipulated fool?

Yep. And so are his children. Just like you. After the Return you will see how hard it was for you to resist the devil (hint: you havent)

 

[emilynghiem]

So Adam was an easily manipulated fool?

Made in Gods own image?

Yes skews13 at that early stage in human development
which Adam represents, starting with natural obedience to God's laws,
man has gained *self awareness* by opening our eyes to the nature of good and evil
and choice between them.

However, we STILL have not fully matured to self discipline and self govern ourselves,
but to THIS DAY human run institutions still fall to greed for control and selfish biases.

That is why our justice system is NOT PERFECT (nor our govts) but prone to
favor ONE group over OTHER interests and causing ENDLESS wars and conflicts.

That is why nations are at war over controlling economic resources, populations and boundaries,
defending one group from another threatening to invade or dominate.

We see this ALL the time.
Human beings are prone to selfish ego, biases and flaws which lead to corruption and abuse.
Easily "manipulated" by our fears and self interests to compromise the rights and equal protection of other groups and beliefs.

How is this not anything new?

The whole REASON that Christians celebrate and honor the sacrifice and redemption in Christ Jesus
is this represents breaking free from selfish conditions and receiving divine forgiveness, grace
and authority to establish TRUE universal and equal justice, which man is too selfish and flawed to achieve otherwise.

Before, with only Adam's "childlike" obedience to God's laws, this was NOT enough to
prevent the abuses of free will that lead to corruption by FEAR and selfishness.
To RESTORE the natural childlike state takes the process that JESUS represents,
of FORGIVING past transgressions to overcome FEAR with LOVE and restore
the natural image of man that reflects God again.

This ability to receive and RESTORE "Equal Justice" and live by the Spirit and Authority of higher laws
comes with the incarnation of JESUS into the world of man made corrupted by selfish ego and greed,
which the original sin represents.

When we reach an agreed understanding of what Jesus means as Equal Justice
Universal to all people, then we can finally mature and create peaceful means of maintaining justice in society.

Right now, no, we are still seeing selfish politics pit one group as superior over others.

Not quite ready to receive yet, but enough people ARE demanding corrections,
that if we CAN unite "in Christ" or "by Conscience" then we CAN agree on
how to establish true EQUAL JUSTICE and quit fighting over which way or which group is
going to dominate the process. It will really take ALL groups working together equally
to achieve Equal Justice and Peace for all people. Not just one group having all the right answers.

This is what we are going through now, that realization that for each
person or group teaching wrong things, that same person/group has right answers
that are part of the global solution.

When we forgive the wrongs and correct them by focusing on the right ideas
that each person/group has to offer, then we can put the collective solutions together
where everyone shares equal credit and responsibility for solving problems.

This is the process that the END of the Bible points to.

So from the BEGINNING of the process when Adam and Eve
represent the lineage of man with self awareness and conscience,
to the END stages where human conscience reaches full
realization of what it takes to establish universal truth, justice and peace,
the rest of the process in between is where all the changes and stages
of spiritual/social growth and development to maturity
occur over human history, and generational struggles,
that we are still seeing and going through today.

Grailhunter GreatestIam BreezeWood ding

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

which Adam represents, starting with natural obedience to God's laws

There is no "natural obedience to God's laws." There is ZERO EVIDENCE to support that.

The whole history of Man, in the Bible, tells us human nature DEGENERATES with time as Man drifts farther from God.

As it was in the Days of Noah, so shall it be when the Son of Man comes"

it grieved God in His heart, that He had made Man.

 

[emilynghiem]

There is no "natural obedience to God's laws." There is ZERO EVIDENCE to support that.

The whole history of Man, in the Bible, tells us human nature DEGENERATES with time as Man drifts farther from God.

As it was in the Days of Noah, so shall it be when the Son of Man comes"

it grieved God in His heart, that He had made Man.

Dear Death Angel:
By Natural laws, I include the inclination to defend our FREE WILL from coercion from others.
Everyone I know NATURALLY defends free choice and consent.
We NATURALLY want peace and freedom.
Those are part of God's laws built into our nature.

The whole struggle is KNOWING that OTHER PEOPLE are built the same way,
how do we ENSURE JUSTICE as the balance between peace and freedom for all people equally?

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Dear Death Angel:
By Natural laws, I include the inclination to defend our FREE WILL from coercion from others.
Everyone I know NATURALLY defends free choice and consent.
We NATURALLY want peace and freedom.
Those are part of God's laws built into our nature.

The whole struggle is KNOWING that OTHER PEOPLE are built the same way,
how do we ENSURE JUSTICE as the balance between peace and freedom for all people equally?

Well, "dear emilynghiem " that's not what you said and not what I was addressing, now was it.

The world is DEGENERATING and becoming more evil with each passing day. The Scriptures prophesied it, and we are living it.

Best to stick to the trunk of the tree and quit wandering on all the little branches

 

[emilynghiem]

Well, "dear emilynghiem " that's not what you said and not what I was addressing, now was it.

The world is DEGENERATING and becoming more evil with each passing day. The Scriptures prophesied it, and we are living it.

Best to stick to the trunk of the tree and quit wandering on all the little branches

I AGREE with you and SAID in my reply that people were NOT able
to live up to EQUAL JUSTICE yet, and follow the laws PERFECTLY.

But this does NOT contradict that people are made in God's image
and we DO BY NATURE follow NATURAL LAWS that God created in human nature.

By our FREE WILL that God gave us, we EVENTUALLY DO LEARN
to live by Justice and Peace.

We do so by TRIAL AND ERROR since God created us to have free will
and use REASON and conscience to finally learn how to
avoid stress/suffering and
achieve justice and peace which we all want.

We ARE following God's natural laws of CAUSE AND EFFECT
or JUSTICE/KARMA. We do get and reap what we sow.
God's laws ARE in effect, and we are learning from experience
how these work.

Unfortunately the lessons comes with a cost,
and when we keep using destructive approaches,
yes, this causes destructive consequences.

This is part of the learning curve.
The Bible also warns it will come to this.

This war, destruction and suffering will continue as long as
people choose the deadly path of RETRIBUTIVE JUSTICE
instead of receiving Jesus and living by RESTORATIVE JUSTICE.

I explained both in my message Death Angel

 

[GreatestIam]

Thank you DL
I may start a separate thread to share and swap ideas with you on examples that teach the right kind of justice and accountability Christians should support more of!

Let's do.

I think we could stir some lively discussions.

Make it on a moral issue as those scare the hell out of Christians.

That eliminates the most immoral and allows the rest to discuss without those who have ever only had inquisitions and jihads to grow their religious tribes.

Gota love those genocidal god lovers, when they convert to good and shed evil.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

STILL have not fully matured to self discipline and self govern ourselves,

Relying on a genocidal prick of a god is not good advice.

You seem to doubt the creative ability of your incompetent god.

I agree that he is the worst of the worst.

Fuck off; I would say to him and his pathetic immoral followers.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

This war, destruction and suffering will continue as long as
people choose the deadly path of RETRIBUTIVE JUSTICE
instead of receiving Jesus and living by RESTORATIVE JUSTICE.

Armageddon is restorative to which side?

Where is the lack of retribution for those bound for hell. The Vast majority says your Satanic holy book.

You are such a pathetic liar.

Regards
DL

 

[beautress]

There is no "natural obedience to God's laws." There is ZERO EVIDENCE to support that.

The whole history of Man, in the Bible, tells us human nature DEGENERATES with time as Man drifts farther from God.

As it was in the Days of Noah, so shall it be when the Son of Man comes"

it grieved God in His heart, that He had made Man.

Not all men degenerate. Some see the light of trusting in God for help in times of trouble and in times of peace. Reading the Good book on a regular basis with faith that conquers doubt. Original sin resulted in dealing with our own obedience, with the agitated jealousy against perceived competitors who in truth are brothers. Why did/does one kill the other? In a word, disobedience by refusing to trust in God. And it is still going on as we see unbelievers thumping their chests with one fist and closing their ears off with padded plugs of disbelief bigger than their eustacian tubes.

 

[emilynghiem]

Armageddon is restorative to which side?

Where is the lack of retribution for those bound for hell. The Vast majority says your Satanic holy book.

You are such a pathetic liar.

Regards
DL

????

The physical wars are consequences of the Retributive vicious cycle.

Some of the Internal battles and tribulations are part of the growth and grief/recovery process to resolve past issues and make peace.

The Lake of Fire is where evil is burned away.

GreatestIam

Whatever you are referring to, it is a mix of all these things.

Some of the process is stages that are temporal and lead to permanent resolution.

If God has some stages that repeat eternally, that is God's business to manage and call, that is not for us to call, dictate or predict.

What I personally believe is that anything eternal that is negative are the memories and lessons of the past so we do not keep repeating them.

It makes more sense to me that once we understand and establish God's perfect will, then war and hell will have an end. We as humanity do not need to keep experiencing that over and over. But the lessons and history will always be part of the collective truth, so whatever wars or evil causing them will "still exist as part of that whole story and process."

The purpose these serve will eventually finish. While the goodness and truth and positive spirit is what is Eternal and prevails.

Are we in agreement on that?

Or do you believe in promoting and prolonging negative retributions from past sins?

Thanks DL
=======
Ps I do not get where you got "pathological liar" from, but whatever did not come from my side indicates those issues come from your side. Is there something on your side where you are deluded and lying to yourself in order to project that biased perception onto me?

Where did that accusation come from?

ding BreezeWood Grailhunter Amadeus

Can you please review DL response above, and my reply below?

Can I ask you to comment on both IN YOUR words and understanding of both true and false teaching?

Can you specify the differences between what I mean and what GreatestIam is saying?

There is only ONE Universal Truth, so this should be able to explain what both of us are saying without conflict.

Where did the miscommunication happen and how would you correct it so we are on the same page again?

Thank you!

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Where is the lack of retribution for those bound for hell. The Vast majority says your Satanic holy book

The spirit of Satan is strong in you. Your future is certain unless you repent

 

[GreatestIam]

Not all men degenerate. Some see the light of trusting in God for help in times of trouble and in times of peace. Reading the Good book on a regular basis with faith that conquers doubt. Original sin resulted in dealing with our own obedience, with the agitated jealousy against perceived competitors who in truth are brothers. Why did/does one kill the other? In a word, disobedience by refusing to trust in God. And it is still going on as we see unbelievers thumping their chests with one fist and closing their ears off with padded plugs of disbelief bigger than their eustacian tubes.

Is god's plan on track or has it been derailed?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

The spirit of Satan is strong in you. Your future is certain unless you repent

For what exactly?

What did I do worse than the genocidal god you adore?

I will trade you for the knowledge of what got you condemned. You must have done something really bad.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

how would you correct it so we are on the same page again?

You would have to reject the genocidal Yahweh that you adore.

You would also have to reject homophobia and misogyny.

Regards
DL

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

For what exactly?

What did I do worse than the genocidal god you adore?

Satan speaks like this. His future is certain too.

Are you old enough to see all your family and friends die off one-by-one? I am.

EVERYONE dies. Do you know who's "fault" that is? If Man lived 1,000 years once, but now die at 70 or 80, does that make God a "genocidal monster"??

WHO gave you life? Who has the power to take it away? Who has the power to bring you back at HIS good time during the Resurrection of the Dead?

You live as long as GOD decides you're going to live. YOU have no say. My hope is in the Resurrection of the Dead at His Return.

You need to rebuke satan's influence (the god of this world) in your thinking and recognize God for who He is.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

erailed?

God USES satan to fulfill His purpose. Why do you not understand this

 

[emilynghiem]

You would have to reject the genocidal Yahweh that you adore.

You would also have to reject homophobia and misogyny.

Regards
DL

Dear GreatestIam

Yes to all the above

To be like God is to remain unconditional, and understand both Good decisions in harmony with Nature mean Good natural consequences/living, while bad unhealthy and imbalance that disrupts natural harmony leads to bad health, death damages destruction and disruptions.

I accept both as consequences respectively.

I understand cause and effect as the laws of karma and justice.

Yes I accept and do not reject people.

But also I equally accept the laws of Nature, and why good judgment leads to better results while bad judgment leads to negative consequences.

DL You are like asking me my opinion of the Drug Wars: and do I believe penalizing people over drug addictions is justified?

My answer is people need help knowledge and assistance to overcome drug addiction, abuse and the whole cycle of reactions and consequences involved. So no, I do not believe in rejecting people for their sick behavior which can be cured and should be.

After they are cured, they can make better decisions to resolve the damages they caused to themselves and others.
I trust them to work that out by God's truth and justice once they are healed and can comply naturally with what it takes to restore peace and justice in healthy relations based on truth.

By this process GreatestIam :

1. Yes I both reject the past paths and patterns of all negative destruction:
All genocide war homophobia etc etc can be prevented so of course it is rejected
2. All people can be saved from sickness and suffering

So the approach of
Restorative Justice
I believe is the meaning of
Christian Embodiment of Christ Jesus

Means resolving the issues you state:
It rejects retributive justice and bad karma that repeats as homosexual and homophobia issues, war and genocide (whether misogyny, misandrony, misanthropy), sin and suffering, addiction and abuse, etc.

And it restores healthy natural
mind body spirit and relations

Forgiveness on the level of God's all inclusive unconditional standards
breaks these cycles and ends all the negative while restoring the natural health and balance for all humanity.

So yes this rejects the Negative
while restoring all the positive.

There is no conflict when we restore God's justice which is natural and perfect.

Thank you DL!

 

[GreatestIam]

Satan speaks like this. His future is certain too.

Are you old enough to see all your family and friends die off one-by-one? I am.

EVERYONE dies. Do you know who's "fault" that is? If Man lived 1,000 years once, but now die at 70 or 80, does that make God a "genocidal monster"??

WHO gave you life? Who has the power to take it away? Who has the power to bring you back at HIS good time during the Resurrection of the Dead?

You live as long as GOD decides you're going to live. YOU have no say. My hope is in the Resurrection of the Dead at His Return.

You need to rebuke satan's influence (the god of this world) in your thinking and recognize God for who He is.

I do.

A genocidal homophobe who hates women.

Why do you like that vile and immoral prick?

Especially after giving Satan extra powers to deceive you?

Sounds like you have Stockholm Syndrome.

Regards
DL