It's not, which is my point. We ALL have the obligation and absolute responsibility to make sure that what we hear regarding Scripture from the pulpit, the priest, the cardinal, the random guy on the internet, our brother-in-law, etc. is true. We simply cannot afford to blindly close our eyes and just accept as Gospel truth something someone else says, even if he wears a certain hat or has "leadership" credentials.
Zone1 Mary's sinlessness
- Thread starter ninja007
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How do you see what is true?
Because for any given thing under the sun, there will be some who are born with a natural talent. It seems to me that it would be dumb to not use that resource when trying to figure out what is true. Mind you I am not suggesting to blindly follow them because I’m not. The Catholic Church welcomes diverse opinions. Growth filled communities should explore all sides of an issue to arrive at objective truth. Do you believe the LDS and JW’s welcome diverse opinions on scripture? I don’t.
The Catholic Church does permit diverse opinions on scripture, but within specific theological and authoritative boundaries. It rejects the idea of every individual interpreting the Bible freely without any guidance. Instead, it relies on a framework that includes the historical context, literary forms, and the Church's teaching authority.
Doctrinal limits on interpretation
Not all interpretations are considered valid, and a Catholic's understanding of scripture must be consistent with the Church's established teachings.
Within these boundaries, Catholics have considerable freedom to explore different interpretations of scripture.
Pope Francis has encouraged Catholic theology to become more "contextual," meaning biblical interpretation should be done in dialogue with other disciplines and in consideration of the realities of modern life. This approach seeks to make the Gospel relevant and meaningful for people in a variety of social and cultural settings.
Doctrinal limits on interpretation
Not all interpretations are considered valid, and a Catholic's understanding of scripture must be consistent with the Church's established teachings.
- Dogma: The Church has specific, infallible dogmas on faith and morals that cannot be contradicted by a scriptural interpretation. For example, a Catholic must accept the Trinity, the Resurrection of Jesus, and his divinity.
- Magisterium: The authoritative interpretation of the Bible is entrusted to the Church's teaching office, the Magisterium, which consists of the Pope and bishops. The Magisterium rarely defines the meaning of a specific verse but instead sets the boundaries within which theological exploration can take place.
- Tradition: Catholic belief is based on a "deposit of faith" that includes both Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Tradition—the faith as it has been lived and understood by the Church through history—provides a critical lens for interpreting scripture.
Within these boundaries, Catholics have considerable freedom to explore different interpretations of scripture.
- Non-literal readings: The Catholic Church has long acknowledged that the Bible uses many different literary forms, including poetry, allegory, and symbolic stories. For example, Catholics are not required to believe in a literal, 24-hour-day creation account, as long as they accept that God is the creator.
- Multiple senses of scripture: The Church recognizes different "senses" of scripture beyond the literal meaning, including spiritual, moral, and allegorical senses. These layers of meaning allow for deeper, more varied interpretations that do not contradict each other.
- Unanimity not required: When Church Fathers and theologians have not been in unanimous agreement on a specific passage, the Church typically permits a "liberty of interpretation".
- Historical-critical method: The Church encourages the use of modern scholarly tools, such as the historical-critical method, to understand the human authors' intentions and the cultural context in which the biblical texts were written.
Pope Francis has encouraged Catholic theology to become more "contextual," meaning biblical interpretation should be done in dialogue with other disciplines and in consideration of the realities of modern life. This approach seeks to make the Gospel relevant and meaningful for people in a variety of social and cultural settings.
Just one example:
21: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22: On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23: And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
These are people who thought they had it figured out, that if they did really good things in Jesus' name He would accept them, but in reality were wicked because they were not in right relationship with God.
Ok, but not all religions allow for different interpretations of scripture. And I’m not talking about the Trinity, the Resurrection of Jesus, and his divinity. I’m talking about the plethora of verses such as LDS requiring belief that the universe was created from existing matter, men can become gods, women can’t become gods, etc. all of which are based on abstract scriptural references which are taken out of context of the passages they use.
How is that related to interpretation of scripture? What was it in scripture - that they got wrong - that led them to believe they were right with God.
Exactly.
It is a sin under penalty of "the death" to set aside Kosher Law to "eat the flesh" of swine that DO NOT RUMINATE and "just believe".
If you fill your mind with undigested garbage you will lose it. The evidence of this truth is everywhere.
Excellent question.
1. Diligent study of the Scriptures yourself. That's what the Bereans were commended for doing, not blindly accepting an Apostle's word.
2. Heartfelt prayer. Lay it out before God, plead with Him to reveal truth and falsehood. He is faithful and promises to give wisdom if we ask.
3. What do other, TRUSTED sources say? If I trust a pastor or priest because I've known them to be sober and wise, find out what they think about what you heard.
4. Trust that God has us in the palm of His hand and if we put our faith in Him, He is faithful to reveal truth to us.
And we should use TRUSTED sources against which to balance what we hear, but we have to remember that we are ultimately responsible for what we choose to believe. We should not take blindly what anyone says. I have found trusted sources from my childhood to have held beliefs not found in the Bible and their take on my questions is not necessarily the best.
The Bible does not specify the source of their belief, but MY OPINION is that it was someone from the "you have to earn salvation" camp who neglected the part where Jesus insisted on laying down your life, being reborn and walking in the Spirit instead of the flesh. He is the vine, we are the branches, and these people tried to earn salvation through good works without being connected to the source. They got it completely backwards.
Still on the ruminate stuff, I see. So that's a part of the Law you follow as it's written, while you ignore the rest because it's inconvenient for you.
Yes, only a thought can be prosecuted as a crime under certain circumstances. There are situations when thinking and talking about committing a crime can result in conspiracy charges. That being said, whether you realize it or not, secular laws are mostly based on a superficial ignorant perverse interpretation of Mosaic Law.
Divine Law is a teaching about cause and effect, and is not and never was about crime and punishment.
Oh, I agree. We've had JW's in my home and they quit coming after we pointed out where their own version of the Bible contradicted their deeply held and cherished beliefs. They go so far as to rewrite the Bible if it disagrees with them. Christians are to be humble enough to not think of themselves as arbiters of the Word, but to allow God to speak through it.
This also underlines the importance of considering the context in which Scripture is written. Far too many like to pull one verse or a part of a verse out and build a whole theology from it without considering who it was written to, why it was written and how it fits in with the surrounding text.
I knew that's where you were headed. You want me to say that Catholics believe you have to earn salvation, and that's not what I think. What I believe is that there are people out there who believe you DO have to earn salvation, and I know it to be true because they say it. I believe you can find one on this board who claims to be a Catholic who does.
The fact that you think I ignore the rest even though you were the subject of ritual slaughter shows that you are as oblivious as a corpse without "the breath of life" highlighted by your very strange comments about HOA's.
There is nothing inconvenient about THE WAY that Jesus taught to understand and comply with Divine Law.
Its easy.
No fancy temples, silly costumes, iniquitous rituals, farm animals, mountains to climb, or blind faith required.
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The following paragraphs are from google AI. I don’t agree with their use of the word salvation here necessarily. I am only including it to put the fallacy to rest. I believe a better way of saying it is that everyone was given the gift of redemption and that our acceptance of this gift leads to salvation and that the fruits we produce are signs of our salvation. It’s easy to pay lip service to God without progressing in holiness.
No, the Catholic Church does not teach that you "earn" your faith or salvation. Instead, it teaches that salvation is a free gift from God received through faith, but this faith must be accompanied by works performed out of love for God, as a living faith leads to good works. The Church teaches that we have to "work out" our salvation with God's grace, not by our own efforts, which is a process of sanctification, not the earning of merit.
Salvation is a Gift, Not an Earned Reward
No, the Catholic Church does not teach that you "earn" your faith or salvation. Instead, it teaches that salvation is a free gift from God received through faith, but this faith must be accompanied by works performed out of love for God, as a living faith leads to good works. The Church teaches that we have to "work out" our salvation with God's grace, not by our own efforts, which is a process of sanctification, not the earning of merit.
Salvation is a Gift, Not an Earned Reward
- The Catholic Church has always condemned the idea that salvation can be earned through good works alone.
- Salvation is considered an unmerited gift from God.
- The Church teaches that justification (being made righteous in God's sight) comes through faith, but not "faith alone".
- A true, living faith is manifested through love and good works.
- The Apostle James states, "faith without works is dead," emphasizing that actions are a sign of genuine faith.
- While we cannot earn salvation, we do work to grow in holiness, which is a process of sanctification.
- This is done through the grace of God, received in sacraments and prayer, which empowers believers to desire and perform good works.
- This aligns with St. Paul's teaching to "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12), where God is the one working in us
You don’t believe in anything supernatural so your use of the word divine is disingenuous.
Supernatural and Divine are not synonymous.
"Saint Stephen with a rose
In and out of the garden he goes
Country garland in the wind and the rain
Wherever he goes the people all complain."
When you capitalize Divine and use it to refer to the creator of existence, they most certainly are. Which is why you are being disingenuous because you are trying to give the impression you believe in the supernatural.
Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
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