RetiredGySgt
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #281
sure they do after he murdered how many millions of them?
According to these guys the US attacke Japan in ww2
- Thread starter RetiredGySgt
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GLASNOST
Platinum Member
You keep avoiding the issue. Nice move!
Mushroom
Gold Member
As were the attacks on the Philippines, Guam, and Wake that all started on the same day.
Mushroom
Gold Member
Which is retarded, because the US was firmly gripped by Isolationists at the time. And was in the process of divesting themselves of the Philippines at the time in order to eliminate overseas threats to the country.
One thing about WWII, is that it pretty much killed the idea in the US that they could remain neutral and stay out of a war. The US did not get involved in either World War, until it was forced to because of the actions of other nations.
One did not like our neutrality and ultimatum that if they did not stop attacking neutral shipping we would declare war. So much so that they tried to get another neutral nation to attack them, then started unrestricted submarine warfare anyways.
And this is the other. Where a hostile nation attacked US territory in order to expand their own. If a certain failed Austrian painter had not stupidly decided to join in himself, the US would only have been involved in that conflict against Japan alone.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
I don't know, how many? I mean, you can get to millions after the famines, I guess.
Now, I'll be the first one to admit that there were mistakes. Like the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward.
Chinese people forgive Mao for those. The GLP was due to lower-level bureaucrats misreporting grain yields, and the Cultural Revolution they blamed on the Gang of Four.
A Chinese Diplomat remarked in the 1980s, "You are never going to see us denounce Mao the way the Soviets denounced Stalin".
AZrailwhale
Diamond Member
If you aren't ignorant, you are deliberately duplicitous. But we all know that.
AZrailwhale
Diamond Member
Eventually FDR would have found a pretext to declare war on Germany. He was already fighting an undeclared war
Failzero
Diamond Member
And Japan had already been rampaging in the Pacific & Asia for 5 years
Your wife isn't from China? I have no idea why Mao won. But you sure admire him.
RetiredGySgt
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #290
he won because the US cut off support to the Nationalists, they didn't have the ammo or parts or fuel to fight effectively.
Mushroom
Gold Member
Nope, he just would have continued Lend-Lease. Ultimately, in Europe the men that the US sent to that theater mattered far less than the material. In such a war, you would have seen most of that equipment still sent to that theater.
But I have no doubt that no pretext would have been needed. There had already been incidents with Germany attacking neutral shipping, the exact same thing that got the US involved in the First World War. It must be remembered, even before Japan attacked, Germany had attacked and sunk many US ships. The first being when the USS Niblack was responding to a call for aid from a Dutch freighter after it had been sunk by a German sub. And while picking up survivors it detected the sub making an attack run on it and drove it off.
Then the USS Greer was attacked by another German sub off the coast of Canada.
Then the USS Salinas, also attacked and damaged off the coast of Canada.
Then their torpedoing and damaging the USS Kearny near Iceland, and sinking the USS Reuben James.
That was the exact kind of thing that caused the US to give the ultimatum during WWI against Germany. As a neutral nation, their ships should not be attacked. This is especially seen in November 1941, when during a neutrality patrol in the South Atlantic they discovered a German blockade runner Oldenwald, flying the US flag and being painted as the SS Willmoto. When challenged the crew abandoned ship and tried to scuttle it.
No, Germany was already doing things that justified a declaration of war even before Japan attacked. It was only a matter of time before things escalated to where war would have been declared. Even by December, many of the isolationists were getting tired of the attacks against US Navy ships and neutral shipping that they were starting to demand firmer action.
I have absolutely no doubt that if Germany had continued such antics, by mid-1942 the attacks on neutral shipping and US vessels would have caused the US to declare war. The only "fighting an undeclared war" that there was happened when German war ships attacked US Navy and merchant ships.
A departed to heaven friend was a Navy commander who fought Hitlers navy off the east coast of the USA. FDR was already in war. This was prior to the bombing of Pearl Harbor.Nope, he just would have continued Lend-Lease. Ultimately, in Europe the men that the US sent to that theater mattered far less than the material. In such a war, you would have seen most of that equipment still sent to that theater.
But I have no doubt that no pretext would have been needed. There had already been incidents with Germany attacking neutral shipping, the exact same thing that got the US involved in the First World War. It must be remembered, even before Japan attacked, Germany had attacked and sunk many US ships. The first being when the USS Niblack was responding to a call for aid from a Dutch freighter after it had been sunk by a German sub. And while picking up survivors it detected the sub making an attack run on it and drove it off.
Then the USS Greer was attacked by another German sub off the coast of Canada.
Then the USS Salinas, also attacked and damaged off the coast of Canada.
Then their torpedoing and damaging the USS Kearny near Iceland, and sinking the USS Reuben James.
That was the exact kind of thing that caused the US to give the ultimatum during WWI against Germany. As a neutral nation, their ships should not be attacked. This is especially seen in November 1941, when during a neutrality patrol in the South Atlantic they discovered a German blockade runner Oldenwald, flying the US flag and being painted as the SS Willmoto. When challenged the crew abandoned ship and tried to scuttle it.
No, Germany was already doing things that justified a declaration of war even before Japan attacked. It was only a matter of time before things escalated to where war would have been declared. Even by December, many of the isolationists were getting tired of the attacks against US Navy ships and neutral shipping that they were starting to demand firmer action.
I have absolutely no doubt that if Germany had continued such antics, by mid-1942 the attacks on neutral shipping and US vessels would have caused the US to declare war. The only "fighting an undeclared war" that there was happened when German war ships attacked US Navy and merchant ships.
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Mushroom
Gold Member
Japan and Italy were really the nations that started WWII, with their attacks in Asia and Africa. It was not until Germany brought the war to Europe that it became a "World War".
And Japan had to attack when they did, because their next target was clearly the Dutch and UK territories in the SW Pacific. But there was no way they could go after them, with a rapidly growing military presence on the Philippines ready to cut their supply lines in half.
If Japan had not declared war against the US in December 1941 and only gone after the Dutch and UK territories, then the US would have responded by pouring even more forces to the Philippines. And by June, if war broke out they literally could have cut the Empire in two. The carriers in the region were working overtime to bring in as many planes as possible, and B-17s were already being ferried to the islands when war broke out. And the Navy was considering converting the USS Langley from a sea plane tender back into a carrier to assist in moving aircraft even faster.
And Japan knew this. And knew they had to attack fast, before the forces there were too strong to overpower without significant losses. The Philippines was really of no importance to Japan, but they needed to get the US off of there so it could not be used as a base to attack them from.
Unkotare
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^^^
JoeB131
Diamond Member
I don't admire any historical figure... A good historian looks at historical figures like an entomologist looks at a bug in a jar.
If you don't understand why the Communists won the Civil War, then probably you should keep your filthy Mormon Mouth shut about the topic.
Not to mention the topic of my wife.
Unkotare
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Bigot ^^^
GLASNOST
Platinum Member
You are being cryptic. We know that the German Navy was sinking cargo ships in the Atlantic Ocean before Pearl Harbour. You say your friend was a Navy commander. Military or merchant? American or British? You also say he was fighting. I'll need a little bit of proof of that or you can just fill in the blanks to clarify my questions.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
No, not at all. Chiang was losing the war long before Truman and Marshall decided to stop throwing good money after bad.
Here's a major reason why Mao won. His troops were mostly volunteers.
Chiang's troops were mostly conscripts, many of them forced into service by the warlords who supported Chiang.
Frequently, when Kuomintang troops met CCP Troops, half of them would defect.
Mao took Beijing without firing a shot, because the general in charge, Fu Zuoyi, just switched sides, and remained a CCP official until his death.
Chiang wanted to maintain the landlord system. Mao promised the Chinese peasants their own land.
Unkotare
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Which turned out to be another communist lie.
RetiredGySgt
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #300
learn a little HISTORY before spouting off, the US agreed to defend the convoys over half the Atlantic, so the western half was US responsibility and the eastern half was the Commonwealth. This started in early 1941.
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