Abraham? Really?

[TNHarley]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

 

[yiostheoy]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

For all we know, the story of Abraham is just a myth that Moses invented as he was writing his epic fiction novel called Genesis in English and Greek or Bereshet in Hebrew.

These stories are fun but I would not get all bent out of shape over them TNHarley

 

[TNHarley]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

For all we know, the story of Abraham is just a myth that Moses invented as he was writing his epic fiction novel called Genesis in English and Greek or Bereshet in Hebrew.

These stories are fun but I would not get all bent out of shape over them TNHarley

Thats not my point at all.
Even if it is an invention, the image was a common patriarch for major religions. Why?

 

[yiostheoy]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

For all we know, the story of Abraham is just a myth that Moses invented as he was writing his epic fiction novel called Genesis in English and Greek or Bereshet in Hebrew.

These stories are fun but I would not get all bent out of shape over them TNHarley

Thats not my point at all.
Even if it is an invention, the image was a common patriarch for major religions. Why?

I know it is not your "point".

However your point becomes a fallacy because you are relying on fiction literature to make and support your point.

Give it a rest.

The story of Moses and of the Hebrew peoples (Jews, Cohens, etc.) begins with Moses and pretty much ends with Josephus.

Read some history -- Josephus is the best source of that for the Hebrews.

As far as Atheism goes, that's just a religious system that proclaims there is no Super-Being. Atheism is as foolish as fanaticism just the other side of that coin.

So as you see, your logic on all this -- your point -- is pure fallacy.

List of fallacies - Wikipedia

 

[TNHarley]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

For all we know, the story of Abraham is just a myth that Moses invented as he was writing his epic fiction novel called Genesis in English and Greek or Bereshet in Hebrew.

These stories are fun but I would not get all bent out of shape over them TNHarley

Thats not my point at all.
Even if it is an invention, the image was a common patriarch for major religions. Why?

I know it is not your "point".

However your point becomes a fallacy because you are relying on fiction literature to make and support your point.

Give it a rest.

The story of Moses and of the Hebrew peoples (Jews, Cohens, etc.) begins with Moses and pretty much ends with Josephus.

Read some history -- Josephus is the best source of that for the Hebrews.

As far as Atheism goes, that's just a religious system that proclaims there is no Super-Being. Atheism is as foolish as fanaticism just the other side of that coin.

So as you see, your logic on all this -- your point -- is pure fallacy.

List of fallacies - Wikipedia

Most of it is fictional literature, chipsahoy.
You cant just pick and choose like that to support your agenda. Well, i guess you can... :/ Seems to be a common stigma with religion.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

You forgot the part about Abraham letting Sarah be kidnapped by the Pharaoh of Egypt.

 

[Moonglow]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

God didn't chose Abraham, Abraham is the only guy out of all the other fellows God ask to believe in him as a deity to have actually agreed to worship God.

 

[TNHarley]

You forgot the part about Abraham letting Sarah be kidnapped by the Pharaoh of Egypt.

Indeed. Gods promise to him got put in a little jeopardy.
She must have been exceptionally attractive for them to kidnap an old woman because of her looks lol

 

[OldLady]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

TN you should read the story in Genesis.
Abraham married his half sister.
I don't know what you mean, was "subordinate to his sister wife."
He had many children by concubines, it says in Genesis. He wanted a legitimate child, but Sarah was barren, so finally, after listening to Abraham bellyache about it for years, she said okay, I'll let you make a baby with my personal servant Hagar and we'll call the child legitimate. It was done, but Sarah became jealous of Hagar and threw a fit, so Abraham had to relocate Hagar and the baby Ishmael. Abraham vowed he would never forget him, and he never did.
That sacrificing Isaac story is one of the most memorable in the Bible. But what you got from it that Abraham lied to Isaac about it?

I got a very different understanding of what went on when I read his story.

 

[strollingbones]

the bible ..smh.....who sends a bear to kill the wee ones for mocking him?

 

[RodISHI]

When you have reach the spiritual point of Abraham your wife (spiritually speaking 'life' consciousness that is teaching and showing you where life is) Sarai = 'princess, meaning you have a conscious spirit that is able to contend' allows you to have a concubine/handmaiden/slave spiritual host of Hagar = 'flight, (as in escape mode ready to flee away) which is Egyptian= 'double straights, (that place where you are still stuck learning to fully walk in the spirit between two spiritual worlds') handmaid to your 'wife'. Since you have not produced a full blown spiritual heir/children/prospered spiritually yet your Hagar spirit is allowed to bring forth another host called Ishmael = 'God will hear'.

 

[TNHarley]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

TN you should read the story in Genesis.
Abraham married his half sister.
I don't know what you mean, was "subordinate to his sister wife."
He had many children by concubines, it says in Genesis. He wanted a legitimate child, but Sarah was barren, so finally, after listening to Abraham bellyache about it for years, she said okay, I'll let you make a baby with my personal servant Hagar and we'll call the child legitimate. It was done, but Sarah became jealous of Hagar and threw a fit, so Abraham had to relocate Hagar and the baby Ishmael. Abraham vowed he would never forget him, and he never did.
That sacrificing Isaac story is one of the most memorable in the Bible. But what you got from it that Abraham lied to Isaac about it?

I got a very different understanding of what went on when I read his story.

Sarah is the one that told abraham to get rid of Ishmael and hagar. Thats what i meant by that. I believe he was troubled so he asked god and he told him to do it. Isaac was his seed.
He lied to him and said they were going to sacrifice a goat or something. He was a coward.
Why would it be "memorable" when he was about kill his own child? PLEASE explain that

 

[TNHarley]

the bible ..smh.....who sends a bear to kill the wee ones for mocking him?

Dont get me started on gods tyranny

 

[irosie91]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

get yourself a little book --------"intro to sociology---101"---------once you get into it-----sociology
gets interesting. And re-read the scriptural writings called DA BIBLE. Abraham was ----what
in Babylon was something like upper middle class. -----also read about the culture of
Mesopotamia. ------VERY CLASS CONSCIOUS---something like CASTES Historically,
the person named ABRAM was married to something like a cousin (not sister) of his own
class---------sarah implies PRINCESS. in Mesopotamian. In Mesopotamia-----there was an
actual CUSTOM in which upper class women use HIRED women to carry pregnancies for them --
sorta like the custom of "wet nurses" Hagar was not a concubine for Abraham---she was donated
by Sara to Abraham because SHE WANTED A BABY-----weird but true. and not UNIQUE in the
history of human civilization. The Hummarabi code is so caste conscious----criminal
penalties for low caste people are entirely different as compared to those for higher caste
people. A high caste person could get away with killing someone of low caste and just
be compelled to pay a small fine. Sara and Abraham were doing the Mesopotamian thing

 

[irosie91]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

TN you should read the story in Genesis.
Abraham married his half sister.
I don't know what you mean, was "subordinate to his sister wife."
He had many children by concubines, it says in Genesis. He wanted a legitimate child, but Sarah was barren, so finally, after listening to Abraham bellyache about it for years, she said okay, I'll let you make a baby with my personal servant Hagar and we'll call the child legitimate. It was done, but Sarah became jealous of Hagar and threw a fit, so Abraham had to relocate Hagar and the baby Ishmael. Abraham vowed he would never forget him, and he never did.
That sacrificing Isaac story is one of the most memorable in the Bible. But what you got from it that Abraham lied to Isaac about it?

I got a very different understanding of what went on when I read his story.

Sarah is the one that told abraham to get rid of Ishmael and hagar. Thats what i meant by that. I believe he was troubled so he asked god and he told him to do it. Isaac was his seed.
He lied to him and said they were going to sacrifice a goat or something. He was a coward.
Why would it be "memorable" when he was about kill his own child? PLEASE explain that

In the land of CANAAN at that time (they lived in Beersheba)-------sacrificing one's
child to the "GOD" was a prevalent custom-------AMALEKITES did it ----moloch
was the "god" The story represents a repudiation of that custom by Abraham. He
was person into SYMBOLS-----which is why he knocked his fathers' Idols over ----breaking
them to prove that they are powerless. Did you pass High School Literature class?

 

[TNHarley]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

TN you should read the story in Genesis.
Abraham married his half sister.
I don't know what you mean, was "subordinate to his sister wife."
He had many children by concubines, it says in Genesis. He wanted a legitimate child, but Sarah was barren, so finally, after listening to Abraham bellyache about it for years, she said okay, I'll let you make a baby with my personal servant Hagar and we'll call the child legitimate. It was done, but Sarah became jealous of Hagar and threw a fit, so Abraham had to relocate Hagar and the baby Ishmael. Abraham vowed he would never forget him, and he never did.
That sacrificing Isaac story is one of the most memorable in the Bible. But what you got from it that Abraham lied to Isaac about it?

I got a very different understanding of what went on when I read his story.

Sarah is the one that told abraham to get rid of Ishmael and hagar. Thats what i meant by that. I believe he was troubled so he asked god and he told him to do it. Isaac was his seed.
He lied to him and said they were going to sacrifice a goat or something. He was a coward.
Why would it be "memorable" when he was about kill his own child? PLEASE explain that

In the land of CANAAN at that time (they lived in Beersheba)-------sacrificing one's
child to the "GOD" was a prevalent custom-------AMALEKITES did it ----moloch
was the "god" The story represents a repudiation of that custom by Abraham. He
was person into SYMBOLS-----which is why he knocked his fathers' Idols over ----breaking
them to prove that they are powerless. Did you pass High School Literature class?

No shit dumbass
Thats not my point. Try comprehending.

 

[irosie91]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

TN you should read the story in Genesis.
Abraham married his half sister.
I don't know what you mean, was "subordinate to his sister wife."
He had many children by concubines, it says in Genesis. He wanted a legitimate child, but Sarah was barren, so finally, after listening to Abraham bellyache about it for years, she said okay, I'll let you make a baby with my personal servant Hagar and we'll call the child legitimate. It was done, but Sarah became jealous of Hagar and threw a fit, so Abraham had to relocate Hagar and the baby Ishmael. Abraham vowed he would never forget him, and he never did.
That sacrificing Isaac story is one of the most memorable in the Bible. But what you got from it that Abraham lied to Isaac about it?

I got a very different understanding of what went on when I read his story.

Sarah is the one that told abraham to get rid of Ishmael and hagar. Thats what i meant by that. I believe he was troubled so he asked god and he told him to do it. Isaac was his seed.
He lied to him and said they were going to sacrifice a goat or something. He was a coward.
Why would it be "memorable" when he was about kill his own child? PLEASE explain that

In the land of CANAAN at that time (they lived in Beersheba)-------sacrificing one's
child to the "GOD" was a prevalent custom-------AMALEKITES did it ----moloch
was the "god" The story represents a repudiation of that custom by Abraham. He
was person into SYMBOLS-----which is why he knocked his fathers' Idols over ----breaking
them to prove that they are powerless. Did you pass High School Literature class?

No shit dumbass
Thats not my point. Try comprehending.

oh---ok I missed your point? I read the story-------I also read the ODYSSEY ----
wonderful book-------full of SYMBOLISM-------I did not have to BELIEVE that Poseidan
REALLY gave Odysseus a BAG OF WIND in order to appreciate the literature.
PLEASE POINT OUT YOUR POINT--------

 

[Weatherman2020]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

And David had his best friend killed so he could have his wife.
Everyone in the Bible has some serious flaws.
God is about redemption. What better way to show that than to select examples of God's grace.

BTW - it was not Abrahams sister. She was his niece.

 

[TNHarley]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

And David had his best friend killed so he could have his wife.
Everyone in the Bible has some serious flaws.
God is about redemption. What better way to show that than to select examples of God's grace.

BTW - it was not Abrahams sister. She was his niece.

Yes and all it took was loyalty. Sounds a little tyrannical, no?
I thought they had same father?

 

[irosie91]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

And David had his best friend killed so he could have his wife.
Everyone in the Bible has some serious flaws.
God is about redemption. What better way to show that than to select examples of God's grace.

BTW - it was not Abrahams sister. She was his niece.

some kind of relative------Uriah was not David's BEST FRIEND--------the best friend
that he killed was ACHITOPHEL------a cousin and friend. I think that she was the
son of his mother's sister (???? don't quote me) The story of the life of David is a classy
EPIC