Abraham Lincoln: Alternative History?

[Mushroom]

The "simple" facts are that Virginia had voted to stay IN the Union until Lincoln issued his call for 75,000 troops to invade the seceding states. Lincoln was inaugurated on March 4, 1861. Virginia did not secede until April 17, 1861.

Many if not a majority of Americans think the South started the war. Proof government propaganda works on many.

And when and where did the war actually start?

When Confederate forces attacked Fort Sumter. In the early morning of 12 April.

So kindly explain how the Union started the war, if the Confederates fired the first shots. And by then over half of the South had already voted to secede, even before the President was inaugurated.

I also discussed the corrupt vote of the people of Virginia. A vote that was so corrupt that a large chunk of the state itself chose to secede because they were against the war and wanted no part of the Confederacy.

SO many keep trying to make that claim, meanwhile completely ignoring the actual timeline.

 

[Mushroom]

Get your servile ass out of the country. It's sad that you think it's admirable to be a boot licker.

You know, I am still waiting on your reply about how a massive concentration of Confederate forces just south of Washington DC was absolutely no threat at all, yet you seem to think a massive concentration of Russian forces just east of Ukraine are.

You see, this is a huge difference. And you are the one that brought that up in the first place, not me. So tell me, how was the tens of thousands of Confederates 25 miles away in Manassas of absolutely no threat at all, yet the buildup of Russians is such a huge deal.

At least I am consistent, and do not look at things through political and biased glasses.

 

[JoeB131]

it turns out you're not a fool, but just a servant of the feds

Sorry, man, I am still laughing at you thinking America is a Hapsburg Conspiracy...

 

[Mushroom]

Sorry, man, I am still laughing at you thinking America is a Hapsburg Conspiracy...

I will admit, RuPaul is a riot to read, but I blocked her long ago because of blatant rascism. And nice to see that they have not changed.

Like claiming the "political system of Austria-Hungary is a free republic."

Uh, there is no more Austria-Hungary, there has not been for over a century now. Officially known as the "Austro-Hungarian Empire", it was an Empire based upon a dual monarchy with the combined crowns of Ciseleithania (Austria) and the Hungarian Kingdom. It ceased to exist after the First World War, when the country was broken up into several different nations, including Austria, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Poland, and Yugoslavia.

It was never a republic, it was a "Constitutional Monarchy", where almost all power resided in Hungary.

 

[gipper]

And when and where did the war actually start?

When Confederate forces attacked Fort Sumter. In the early morning of 12 April.

So kindly explain how the Union started the war, if the Confederates fired the first shots. And by then over half of the South had already voted to secede, even before the President was inaugurated.

I also discussed the corrupt vote of the people of Virginia. A vote that was so corrupt that a large chunk of the state itself chose to secede because they were against the war and wanted no part of the Confederacy.

SO many keep trying to make that claim, meanwhile completely ignoring the actual timeline.

I know I’m wasting my time with you, but oh well.

SC told the federals to evacuate the fort. They indicated they would, as they had done in all the other federal facilities in the South. The federals changed their minds, and failed to evacuate. SC continued for several days waiting for them to exit. Then news reached them that Dishonest Abe was sending a ship to resupply the garrison. Abe made sure his troops didn’t leave, so as to set up events for SC to attack.

You must know that US Presidents have used such tactics multiple times to make it appear the enemy started the war. Probably not.

SC starting bombing THEIR fort to get the enemy to leave THEIR fort. The North surrendered, bombing stopped, and they withdrew peacefully. No one was killed or injured in the bombing.

You bring a dumb dick conclude from this WE MUST HAVE WAR AND KILL 850,000 Americans and destroy half the nation, because SC attacked THEIR fort.

 

[JoeB131]

I will admit, RuPaul is a riot to read, but I blocked her long ago because of blatant rascism. And nice to see that they have not changed.

Like claiming the "political system of Austria-Hungary is a free republic."

Uh, there is no more Austria-Hungary, there has not been for over a century now. Officially known as the "Austro-Hungarian Empire", it was an Empire based upon a dual monarchy with the combined crowns of Ciseleithania (Austria) and the Hungarian Kingdom. It ceased to exist after the First World War, when the country was broken up into several different nations, including Austria, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Poland, and Yugoslavia.

It was never a republic, it was a "Constitutional Monarchy", where almost all power resided in Hungary.

Oh, so this weird Austria Hungary thing isn't new? Because it was weird, even by USMB standards

 

[bripat9643]

You know, I am still waiting on your reply about how a massive concentration of Confederate forces just south of Washington DC was absolutely no threat at all, yet you seem to think a massive concentration of Russian forces just east of Ukraine are.

You see, this is a huge difference. And you are the one that brought that up in the first place, not me. So tell me, how was the tens of thousands of Confederates 25 miles away in Manassas of absolutely no threat at all, yet the buildup of Russians is such a huge deal.

At least I am consistent, and do not look at things through political and biased glasses.

I'm still waiting on your reply on how being a threat gives a foreign power the right to invade you. According to that theory, the USSR had the right to launch a full preemptive nuclear strike.

You are one of them dumber forum members who has tried to justify Lincoln's invasion of Virginia.

BTW, turd, you haven't seen anyone on this board claim that Ukraine has the right to invade Russia. In fact, you appear to be trying to justify Russia invading Ukraine.

You really are a loathsome creature.

 

[bripat9643]

And when and where did the war actually start?

When Confederate forces attacked Fort Sumter. In the early morning of 12 April.

So kindly explain how the Union started the war, if the Confederates fired the first shots. And by then over half of the South had already voted to secede, even before the President was inaugurated.

I also discussed the corrupt vote of the people of Virginia. A vote that was so corrupt that a large chunk of the state itself chose to secede because they were against the war and wanted no part of the Confederacy.

SO many keep trying to make that claim, meanwhile completely ignoring the actual timeline.

Nope. Ft Sumter was not an act of war. You don't start a war by attacking your own territory.

The war started when Lincoln invaded Virginia. Lincoln fired the first shots.

How was the secession vote "corrupt?"

 

[Mushroom]

SC told the federals to evacuate the fort.

And by what right does a state order the Federal Government to evacuate its own property?

By this reasoning, even the Castro Regime in Cuba is more rational and peaceful than the Confederates are.

So once again, what does that have to do with who started the war?

And yes, it is pointless because I actually know history, which you do not. You are simply another Lost Cause believer, that is trying to do everything they can to justify the actions of Aristocratic slave owners.

 

[Mushroom]

Oh, so this weird Austria Hungary thing isn't new? Because it was weird, even by USMB standards

RuPaul is always going off on strange tangents that only make sense to herself.

 

[Mushroom]

I'm still waiting on your reply on how being a threat gives a foreign power the right to invade you. According to that theory, the USSR had the right to launch a full preemptive nuclear strike.

You are one of them dumber forum members who has tried to justify Lincoln's invasion of Virginia.

BTW, turd, you haven't seen anyone on this board claim that Ukraine has the right to invade Russia. In fact, you appear to be trying to justify Russia invading Ukraine.

You really are a loathsome creature.

No, what I am doing actually is using your own argument against you.

I have said nothing about what Russia can or can not do, it is actually not applicable here. You are the one that is trying to compare the current situation with the Confederate buildups, and the funny thing is that you are apparently condemning what Russia is doing, yet applauding when the Confederates did the exact same thing and implying it was no threat at all. That is a huge flaw in logic, and an inconsistency that I to be honest find absolutely hilarious.

Because to you, the only thing that matters is what you believe about a certain thing, no matter if they conflict with each other or not.

Now if you want to know about my thoughts on the current situation, feel free to look in the Military section where I have discussed it. But this is the History section, and the discussion is the Civil War. Do please try to stay on track.

 

[Mushroom]

Nope. Ft Sumter was not an act of war. You don't start a war by attacking your own territory.

Actually, a military installation is not "State Territory". It is Federal Territory, and not actually part of the state that it is in.

So once again, logic and fact fail.

 

[gipper]

And by what right does a state order the Federal Government to evacuate its own property?

By this reasoning, even the Castro Regime in Cuba is more rational and peaceful than the Confederates are.

So once again, what does that have to do with who started the war?

And yes, it is pointless because I actually know history, which you do not. You are simply another Lost Cause believer, that is trying to do everything they can to justify the actions of Aristocratic slave owners.

SECESSION! Learn it. Statists can’t wrap their brain around it. Lincoln said the union is perpetual. You believe that shit.

 

[bripat9643]

That's totally wrong. All the people working there pay state taxes to the state where it's located. They are all subject to the laws of that state, like their divorce laws, their tax laws. etc..

 

[TNHarley]

And by what right does a state order the Federal Government to evacuate its own property?

By this reasoning, even the Castro Regime in Cuba is more rational and peaceful than the Confederates are.

So once again, what does that have to do with who started the war?

And yes, it is pointless because I actually know history, which you do not. You are simply another Lost Cause believer, that is trying to do everything they can to justify the actions of Aristocratic slave owners.

You need to learn what secession means, man.
trying to do everything they can to justify the actions of Aristocratic slave owners.
wayyyyyyyyyyycist!

 

[AMart]

Yes.

Easy for you to say. You were not drafted against your will. The wealthy were allowed to buy out of the draft, and Lincoln used that money to fund the war.

 

[Unkotare]

Easy for you to say. You were not drafted against your will.

Nor did I attempt to destroy the United States of America.

 

[AMart]

Nor did I attempt to destroy the United States of America.

Well is seems the states were not united duh.

 

[Unkotare]

Well is seems the states were not united duh.

On April 9th, 1865 it was still the UNITED States of America.

 

[gipper]

Nor did I attempt to destroy the United States of America.

Lincoln did that with his aggressive war against fellow Americans, but you’re too dumb to accept the truth.

YOU:
Oh that nasty MFer FDR! He threw Japanese Americans into concentration camps. He’s a tyrant, but Lincoln is a hero.

You are terribly confused.