A Short Primer on the Citizenship Clause in the 14th Amendment

The real issue is the nationwide injunction bullshit .... on both parties.

Congress could pass a law, and Trump could sign it, requiring asylum seekers to apply BEFORE coming here, and any illegal breach of our borders evidences an illegal immigrant having no desire to submit to US law. Then, the Supreme Court might actually have to do something
That could perhaps happen. But until then ...

Barrett and Kavanaugh had their own issues today. Barrett did not like the seemingly "we will pick and choose which court orders we will follow" while Kavanaugh seemed skeptical to the whole government approach. If they and Roberts join the three liberals, it's all over.

I think they will return it to the courts for further review.
 
That could perhaps happen. But until then ...

Barrett and Kavanaugh had their own issues today. Barrett did not like the seemingly "we will pick and choose which court orders we will follow" while Kavanaugh seemed skeptical to the whole government approach. If they and Roberts join the three liberals, it's all over.

I think they will return it to the courts for further review.
I'm not even sure Gorsuch wants the uncertainty of having literally NO 14th amendment regarding the children of slaves/guest workers. Maga wants the SC to write the law for them. Not unlike the women of Roe.
 
They could still come illegally and have kids that would still be citizens.
The argument would be that since their parents do NOT evidence a desire to live " subject to the jurisdiction" neither do their children. So they can be deported with their parents.
 
This is the historically accurate reason for the citizenship clause in the 14th.

After passing the Civil Rights Act of 1866, former Confederate states said freed slaves may well be a United States citizen, but only a state could grant them state citizenship, and former Confederate states refused to grant [state] citizenship.

Further, Dred Scott was still the law of the land, thus freed slaves, all blacks in fact, could not be United States citizens either.

Thus, Congress added the citizenship clause to the 14th, to enforce the Civil Rights Act of 1866, and included both state and United States citizenship in order to overcome both of those situations.

PS Wong Kim Ark's parents were legal resident aliens, thus making themselves subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

All academic now I'm afraid, things are being done differently now the despot in chief has seized control, here let me explain...

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Those who wrote the 14th Amendment understood the English language.
If they meant former slaves, they could have said so.
But they used the term “all people ” which applies to everyone
All people means all American citizens, it does not mean all 7 billion people on the planet.
The 14th amendment was written for the emancipated slaves and for all American citizens.
It was not written for foreigners who illegally crossed our border.
 
The argument would be that since their parents do NOT evidence a desire to live " subject to the jurisdiction" neither do their children. So they can be deported with their parents.

Legal or illegal they are subject to the jurisdiction or we couldn't arrest them.
 
I'm glad you posted this.

The 14th amendment was allegedly ratified to provide former slaves and their offspring the full protection of the U.S. Constitution that is granted to citizens. Yet EVERYONE, judges, SCOTUS, local municipalities, as well as the very states that are expressly forbidden in the plain language of the amendment from passing any laws that infringe upon the equal rights of it's citizens, did so with impunity and ushered in 96 years of Jim Crow, in spite of the plain language of the 14th Amendment forbidding them from doing so.

To date, no one has anything to say about how THIS part of the 14th amendment has been ignored for close to 100 years in respect to those it was created to benefit - Black people - yet well more than 100 years since it's ratification, the 14th amendment has been cited as the grounds for granting birthright citizenship to those who are NOT only NOT citizens (compared to those MADE citizens by the 14th), but are in the country unlawfully.

Fourteenth Amendment​

Section 1

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.​
This is what was then allowed:

Following the ratification of the 14th Amendment in 1868, which aimed to ensure equal protection under the law for all citizens, numerous state and local governments enacted laws that directly contravened its provisions, particularly targeting African Americans. These laws, commonly known as "Jim Crow" laws, institutionalized racial segregation and discrimination. Below is a list of notable laws and practices that violated the 14th Amendment's equal protection clause:
1. Black Codes (Late 1860s):
  • Mississippi Black Code (1865): Mandated that African Americans sign yearly labor contracts; those without proof of employment could be arrested and fined.
  • South Carolina Black Code (1865): Restricted African Americans from holding certain occupations unless they paid a special tax.
2. Segregation Laws:
  • Louisiana Separate Car Act (1890): Required separate railway cars for white and Black passengers. This law led to the landmark Supreme Court case Plessy v. Ferguson, which upheld the "separate but equal" doctrine.
  • Florida Education Law (1885): Mandated separate schools for white and Black children.
3. Voting Restrictions:
  • Alabama Constitution (1901): Implemented literacy tests and poll taxes specifically designed to disenfranchise Black voters.
  • Mississippi Constitution (1890): Established complex voter registration requirements, including literacy tests and poll taxes, to suppress Black voter participation.
4. Anti-Miscegenation Laws:
  • Virginia Racial Integrity Act (1924): Prohibited marriage between white and non-white individuals.
  • Alabama Anti-Miscegenation Law (1927): Made itghenterracial marriage illegal, with severe penalties for those who violated the law.
5. Public Accommodation Segregation:
  • Georgia Public Accommodations Law (1905): Required segregation in hotels, restaurants, and other public facilities.
  • Texas Railcar Segregation Law (1889): Mandated separatetghe railroad cars for Black passengers.
6. Employment Discrimination:
  • South Carolina Labor Law (1915): Prohibited Black individuals from holding certain jobs in factories and mines.
  • Louisiana Sugar Plantation Law (1907): Allowed only white laborers to work in specific industries.
These laws systematically undermined the 14th Amendment's guarantee of equal protection, leading to widespread discrimination and inequality [specifically against Black people]. It wasn't until the Civil Rights Movement, culminating in the Civil Rights Act of 1964, that many of these discriminatory laws were challenged and overturned.
A host of of other un-race related things as well, but the bottom line here is that the 14th Amendment was written
with Black Americans who are already here in mind.
 
All people means all American citizens, it does not mean all 7 billion people on the planet.
The 14th amendment was written for the emancipated slaves and for all American citizens.
It was not written for foreigners who illegally crossed our border.
Just think of all of those British soldiers in the war of 1812 (retroactive) and the nazi sabateurs and the Japanese flyers who attacked Pearl Harbor were all denied their 14th amendment rights.
 
I don't have confidence in the Supreme Court.
But the original intent of the 14th amendment was for the citizenship of emancipated slaves and for all American citizens.
Its intent was never for foreigners who illegally crossed our border.
 
Legal or illegal they are subject to the jurisdiction or we couldn't arrest them


That is a different kind of jurisdiction.

American Indians had to have an Act of Congress passed in 1924 to make them citizens, even though many had served in the U.S. military over the decades after the 14th was ratified.
 
That is a different kind of jurisdiction.

American Indians had to have an Act of Congress passed in 1924 to make them citizens, even though many had served in the U.S. military over the decades after the 14th was ratified.
That even further illustrates how the 14th was written specifically for black Americans.
 
I don't have confidence in the Supreme Court.
But the original intent of the 14th amendment was for the citizenship of emancipated slaves and for all American citizens.
Its intent was never for foreigners who illegally crossed our border.


Right, too many political actors on SCOTUS for my liking to get it right, aka "empathy". Or national suicide over 'feelings'.

The thought that any woman can pop out a child in our territory and that child is automatically a citizen is absurd.

If down the road SCOTUS says they are, what is to stop massive shiploads from Asia (think modern cruise ships) entering U.S. territorial waters full of pregnant women ready to birth newly minted American citizens?

And see the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924, also known as the Snyder Act, which puts a lie to the birthright citizen claim we are discussing.
 
Legal or illegal they are subject to the jurisdiction or we couldn't arrest them.
everyone in the US territory is subject to our jurisdiction, but when you break a law seeking to get away with it, you don't evidence an intent to submit to the law.

btw, that's one reason why the standard of proof to deport someone is pretty low.
 
Just think of all of those British soldiers in the war of 1812 (retroactive) and the nazi sabateurs and the Japanese flyers who attacked Pearl Harbor were all denied their 14th amendment rights.
The laws of war at that time ruled their fate.
 
Right, too many political actors on SCOTUS for my liking to get it right, aka "empathy". Or national suicide over 'feelings'.

The thought that any woman can pop out a child in our territory and that child is automatically a citizen is absurd.

If down the road SCOTUS says they are, what is to stop massive shiploads from Asia (think modern cruise ships) entering U.S. territorial waters full of pregnant women ready to birth newly minted American citizens?

And see the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924, also known as the Snyder Act, which puts a lie to the birthright citizen claim we are discussing.

Your argument is absurd.
 
If at least one of the parents are American citizens then the child is also an American citizen., and it doesn't matter where the child is born.
If neither of the parents are American citizens then the child is not an American citizen.
 

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