A Religious View of Welfare

PoliticalChic

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While Leftism is a religion of 'rights,' real religion is based on obligations.


The great difference between the two concepts can best be seen when the discussion gets around to the welfare system.


1. Marvin Olasky, in "The Tragedy of American Compassion," explains that, in earlier times,human needs were taken care of by other human beings-not by bureaucracies. The important difference was that the latter may take care of food and shelter...but the formeralso dealt with the human spirit and behavior.

Welfare programs today, are Liberal….conservatives don’t look for material solutions, but understand that changing values is what solves the problem of poverty..

a. The government's welfare plan is based on a lack of understanding of human nature: those accepting largesse without working for same hate themselves, and learn to hate the giver as well.
"If you pick up a stray dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. That is the principal difference between dogs and men." Mark Twain.




2. In earlier times, before materialism and secularism took their toll, social communication proceeded, largely, from church sermons. And sermons, frequently propounding the need for personal help and hospitality, were "powerful in shaping cultural values, meanings, and a sense of corporate purpose."
"The New England Soul: Preaching and Religious Culture in Colonial New England," p. 3,byHarry S. Stout

a. "...compassion and Mercy to the poor is Conformity to God."
Benjamin Colman, " The merchandise of a people holiness to the Lord : A sermon preached in part at the publick lecture in Boston, July 1. 1725"


b. So, in times where God was considered a personal intervenor ( e.g., "God's Providence"), the premise was that charity should not be limited to the clockwork view that it was simply money to be handed over...."God values our hearts and spirits above all our silver and gold....If a man gives all the substance of his house instead of love, ....it would be condemned."
Benjamin Colman, Op. Cit.




3. In the earlier times, as Gertrude Himmelfarb explains: "There was nothing invidious in being preached to. What was invidious was not being preached to, not having access to the kinds of moral, religious and communal experiences that were a normal part of life for those not so poor as to be deprived of them".
A stark reversal was the result of the new emphasis on materialism, actually producing folks who rail about 'religion being forced down their throat.'
Quite an exaggeration, I believe.

'Welfare' was was taken over by Franklin Roosevelt's government, moving it out of the realm of the private charities.
Lyndon Johnson was the second coming of Franklin Roosevelt.



4. " Governments have enacted enormous welfare programs to try to feed, clothe, shelter, educate and transport their citizens and even to put cell phones in their hands....the welfare state has grown to consume nearly a third of the government’s annual budget. In 1965, President Lyndon Johnson launched a massive spending program to eradicate poverty in the world’s richest nation. But the program didn’t defeat poverty. Instead, it created welfare dependency, laziness and opportunity for fraud.

a. In 1960, nearly two thirds of these heads of households worked. But by 1991, only one third of them worked, and only 11 percent worked full-time, year-round.... 45 million Americans (14.5 percent) are still living below the poverty line."
The Welfare System That Works - theTrumpet.com


Of course, the current resident of the White House has made it even worse.
 

danielpalos

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The left knows it merely requires social morals for free to achieve a secular and temporal, Commune of Heaven on Earth; we are merely waiting for the right to overcome their cognitive dissonance regarding a moral of "goodwill toward men".
 

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All my dogs are profitable, and yet still bite..strangers...
 

NYcarbineer

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While Leftism is a religion of 'rights,' real religion is based on obligations.


The great difference between the two concepts can best be seen when the discussion gets around to the welfare system.


1. Marvin Olasky, in "The Tragedy of American Compassion," explains that, in earlier times,human needs were taken care of by other human beings-not by bureaucracies. The important difference was that the latter may take care of food and shelter...but the formeralso dealt with the human spirit and behavior.

Welfare programs today, are Liberal….conservatives don’t look for material solutions, but understand that changing values is what solves the problem of poverty..

a. The government's welfare plan is based on a lack of understanding of human nature: those accepting largesse without working for same hate themselves, and learn to hate the giver as well.
"If you pick up a stray dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. That is the principal difference between dogs and men." Mark Twain.




2. In earlier times, before materialism and secularism took their toll, social communication proceeded, largely, from church sermons. And sermons, frequently propounding the need for personal help and hospitality, were "powerful in shaping cultural values, meanings, and a sense of corporate purpose."
"The New England Soul: Preaching and Religious Culture in Colonial New England," p. 3,byHarry S. Stout

a. "...compassion and Mercy to the poor is Conformity to God."
Benjamin Colman, " The merchandise of a people holiness to the Lord : A sermon preached in part at the publick lecture in Boston, July 1. 1725"


b. So, in times where God was considered a personal intervenor ( e.g., "God's Providence"), the premise was that charity should not be limited to the clockwork view that it was simply money to be handed over...."God values our hearts and spirits above all our silver and gold....If a man gives all the substance of his house instead of love, ....it would be condemned."
Benjamin Colman, Op. Cit.




3. In the earlier times, as Gertrude Himmelfarb explains: "There was nothing invidious in being preached to. What was invidious was not being preached to, not having access to the kinds of moral, religious and communal experiences that were a normal part of life for those not so poor as to be deprived of them".
A stark reversal was the result of the new emphasis on materialism, actually producing folks who rail about 'religion being forced down their throat.'
Quite an exaggeration, I believe.

'Welfare' was was taken over by Franklin Roosevelt's government, moving it out of the realm of the private charities.
Lyndon Johnson was the second coming of Franklin Roosevelt.



4. " Governments have enacted enormous welfare programs to try to feed, clothe, shelter, educate and transport their citizens and even to put cell phones in their hands....the welfare state has grown to consume nearly a third of the government’s annual budget. In 1965, President Lyndon Johnson launched a massive spending program to eradicate poverty in the world’s richest nation. But the program didn’t defeat poverty. Instead, it created welfare dependency, laziness and opportunity for fraud.

a. In 1960, nearly two thirds of these heads of households worked. But by 1991, only one third of them worked, and only 11 percent worked full-time, year-round.... 45 million Americans (14.5 percent) are still living below the poverty line."
The Welfare System That Works - theTrumpet.com


Of course, the current resident of the White House has made it even worse.
Then state for the record that you want to end all welfare. Flip flop on your previous positions.
 

danielpalos

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While Leftism is a religion of 'rights,' real religion is based on obligations.


The great difference between the two concepts can best be seen when the discussion gets around to the welfare system.


1. Marvin Olasky, in "The Tragedy of American Compassion," explains that, in earlier times,human needs were taken care of by other human beings-not by bureaucracies. The important difference was that the latter may take care of food and shelter...but the formeralso dealt with the human spirit and behavior.

Welfare programs today, are Liberal….conservatives don’t look for material solutions, but understand that changing values is what solves the problem of poverty..

a. The government's welfare plan is based on a lack of understanding of human nature: those accepting largesse without working for same hate themselves, and learn to hate the giver as well.
"If you pick up a stray dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. That is the principal difference between dogs and men." Mark Twain.




2. In earlier times, before materialism and secularism took their toll, social communication proceeded, largely, from church sermons. And sermons, frequently propounding the need for personal help and hospitality, were "powerful in shaping cultural values, meanings, and a sense of corporate purpose."
"The New England Soul: Preaching and Religious Culture in Colonial New England," p. 3,byHarry S. Stout

a. "...compassion and Mercy to the poor is Conformity to God."
Benjamin Colman, " The merchandise of a people holiness to the Lord : A sermon preached in part at the publick lecture in Boston, July 1. 1725"


b. So, in times where God was considered a personal intervenor ( e.g., "God's Providence"), the premise was that charity should not be limited to the clockwork view that it was simply money to be handed over...."God values our hearts and spirits above all our silver and gold....If a man gives all the substance of his house instead of love, ....it would be condemned."
Benjamin Colman, Op. Cit.




3. In the earlier times, as Gertrude Himmelfarb explains: "There was nothing invidious in being preached to. What was invidious was not being preached to, not having access to the kinds of moral, religious and communal experiences that were a normal part of life for those not so poor as to be deprived of them".
A stark reversal was the result of the new emphasis on materialism, actually producing folks who rail about 'religion being forced down their throat.'
Quite an exaggeration, I believe.

'Welfare' was was taken over by Franklin Roosevelt's government, moving it out of the realm of the private charities.
Lyndon Johnson was the second coming of Franklin Roosevelt.



4. " Governments have enacted enormous welfare programs to try to feed, clothe, shelter, educate and transport their citizens and even to put cell phones in their hands....the welfare state has grown to consume nearly a third of the government’s annual budget. In 1965, President Lyndon Johnson launched a massive spending program to eradicate poverty in the world’s richest nation. But the program didn’t defeat poverty. Instead, it created welfare dependency, laziness and opportunity for fraud.

a. In 1960, nearly two thirds of these heads of households worked. But by 1991, only one third of them worked, and only 11 percent worked full-time, year-round.... 45 million Americans (14.5 percent) are still living below the poverty line."
The Welfare System That Works - theTrumpet.com


Of course, the current resident of the White House has made it even worse.
Then state for the record that you want to end all welfare. Flip flop on your previous positions.
We cannot end all welfare simply because providing for the general welfare is in our Constitution.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

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While Leftism is a religion of 'rights,' real religion is based on obligations.


The great difference between the two concepts can best be seen when the discussion gets around to the welfare system.


1. Marvin Olasky, in "The Tragedy of American Compassion," explains that, in earlier times,human needs were taken care of by other human beings-not by bureaucracies. The important difference was that the latter may take care of food and shelter...but the formeralso dealt with the human spirit and behavior.

Welfare programs today, are Liberal….conservatives don’t look for material solutions, but understand that changing values is what solves the problem of poverty..

a. The government's welfare plan is based on a lack of understanding of human nature: those accepting largesse without working for same hate themselves, and learn to hate the giver as well.
"If you pick up a stray dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. That is the principal difference between dogs and men." Mark Twain.




2. In earlier times, before materialism and secularism took their toll, social communication proceeded, largely, from church sermons. And sermons, frequently propounding the need for personal help and hospitality, were "powerful in shaping cultural values, meanings, and a sense of corporate purpose."
"The New England Soul: Preaching and Religious Culture in Colonial New England," p. 3,byHarry S. Stout

a. "...compassion and Mercy to the poor is Conformity to God."
Benjamin Colman, " The merchandise of a people holiness to the Lord : A sermon preached in part at the publick lecture in Boston, July 1. 1725"


b. So, in times where God was considered a personal intervenor ( e.g., "God's Providence"), the premise was that charity should not be limited to the clockwork view that it was simply money to be handed over...."God values our hearts and spirits above all our silver and gold....If a man gives all the substance of his house instead of love, ....it would be condemned."
Benjamin Colman, Op. Cit.




3. In the earlier times, as Gertrude Himmelfarb explains: "There was nothing invidious in being preached to. What was invidious was not being preached to, not having access to the kinds of moral, religious and communal experiences that were a normal part of life for those not so poor as to be deprived of them".
A stark reversal was the result of the new emphasis on materialism, actually producing folks who rail about 'religion being forced down their throat.'
Quite an exaggeration, I believe.

'Welfare' was was taken over by Franklin Roosevelt's government, moving it out of the realm of the private charities.
Lyndon Johnson was the second coming of Franklin Roosevelt.



4. " Governments have enacted enormous welfare programs to try to feed, clothe, shelter, educate and transport their citizens and even to put cell phones in their hands....the welfare state has grown to consume nearly a third of the government’s annual budget. In 1965, President Lyndon Johnson launched a massive spending program to eradicate poverty in the world’s richest nation. But the program didn’t defeat poverty. Instead, it created welfare dependency, laziness and opportunity for fraud.

a. In 1960, nearly two thirds of these heads of households worked. But by 1991, only one third of them worked, and only 11 percent worked full-time, year-round.... 45 million Americans (14.5 percent) are still living below the poverty line."
The Welfare System That Works - theTrumpet.com


Of course, the current resident of the White House has made it even worse.
Then state for the record that you want to end all welfare. Flip flop on your previous positions.



Hmmm......where are all of your examples in support of the charge you've made?

None?


I suppose this is the reason why you are the "NYLiar," huh?
 

NYcarbineer

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While Leftism is a religion of 'rights,' real religion is based on obligations.


The great difference between the two concepts can best be seen when the discussion gets around to the welfare system.


1. Marvin Olasky, in "The Tragedy of American Compassion," explains that, in earlier times,human needs were taken care of by other human beings-not by bureaucracies. The important difference was that the latter may take care of food and shelter...but the formeralso dealt with the human spirit and behavior.

Welfare programs today, are Liberal….conservatives don’t look for material solutions, but understand that changing values is what solves the problem of poverty..

a. The government's welfare plan is based on a lack of understanding of human nature: those accepting largesse without working for same hate themselves, and learn to hate the giver as well.
"If you pick up a stray dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. That is the principal difference between dogs and men." Mark Twain.




2. In earlier times, before materialism and secularism took their toll, social communication proceeded, largely, from church sermons. And sermons, frequently propounding the need for personal help and hospitality, were "powerful in shaping cultural values, meanings, and a sense of corporate purpose."
"The New England Soul: Preaching and Religious Culture in Colonial New England," p. 3,byHarry S. Stout

a. "...compassion and Mercy to the poor is Conformity to God."
Benjamin Colman, " The merchandise of a people holiness to the Lord : A sermon preached in part at the publick lecture in Boston, July 1. 1725"


b. So, in times where God was considered a personal intervenor ( e.g., "God's Providence"), the premise was that charity should not be limited to the clockwork view that it was simply money to be handed over...."God values our hearts and spirits above all our silver and gold....If a man gives all the substance of his house instead of love, ....it would be condemned."
Benjamin Colman, Op. Cit.




3. In the earlier times, as Gertrude Himmelfarb explains: "There was nothing invidious in being preached to. What was invidious was not being preached to, not having access to the kinds of moral, religious and communal experiences that were a normal part of life for those not so poor as to be deprived of them".
A stark reversal was the result of the new emphasis on materialism, actually producing folks who rail about 'religion being forced down their throat.'
Quite an exaggeration, I believe.

'Welfare' was was taken over by Franklin Roosevelt's government, moving it out of the realm of the private charities.
Lyndon Johnson was the second coming of Franklin Roosevelt.



4. " Governments have enacted enormous welfare programs to try to feed, clothe, shelter, educate and transport their citizens and even to put cell phones in their hands....the welfare state has grown to consume nearly a third of the government’s annual budget. In 1965, President Lyndon Johnson launched a massive spending program to eradicate poverty in the world’s richest nation. But the program didn’t defeat poverty. Instead, it created welfare dependency, laziness and opportunity for fraud.

a. In 1960, nearly two thirds of these heads of households worked. But by 1991, only one third of them worked, and only 11 percent worked full-time, year-round.... 45 million Americans (14.5 percent) are still living below the poverty line."
The Welfare System That Works - theTrumpet.com


Of course, the current resident of the White House has made it even worse.
Then state for the record that you want to end all welfare. Flip flop on your previous positions.



Hmmm......where are all of your examples in support of the charge you've made?

None?


I suppose this is the reason why you are the "NYLiar," huh?
What is your position on Medicaid?
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

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While Leftism is a religion of 'rights,' real religion is based on obligations.


The great difference between the two concepts can best be seen when the discussion gets around to the welfare system.


1. Marvin Olasky, in "The Tragedy of American Compassion," explains that, in earlier times,human needs were taken care of by other human beings-not by bureaucracies. The important difference was that the latter may take care of food and shelter...but the formeralso dealt with the human spirit and behavior.

Welfare programs today, are Liberal….conservatives don’t look for material solutions, but understand that changing values is what solves the problem of poverty..

a. The government's welfare plan is based on a lack of understanding of human nature: those accepting largesse without working for same hate themselves, and learn to hate the giver as well.
"If you pick up a stray dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. That is the principal difference between dogs and men." Mark Twain.




2. In earlier times, before materialism and secularism took their toll, social communication proceeded, largely, from church sermons. And sermons, frequently propounding the need for personal help and hospitality, were "powerful in shaping cultural values, meanings, and a sense of corporate purpose."
"The New England Soul: Preaching and Religious Culture in Colonial New England," p. 3,byHarry S. Stout

a. "...compassion and Mercy to the poor is Conformity to God."
Benjamin Colman, " The merchandise of a people holiness to the Lord : A sermon preached in part at the publick lecture in Boston, July 1. 1725"


b. So, in times where God was considered a personal intervenor ( e.g., "God's Providence"), the premise was that charity should not be limited to the clockwork view that it was simply money to be handed over...."God values our hearts and spirits above all our silver and gold....If a man gives all the substance of his house instead of love, ....it would be condemned."
Benjamin Colman, Op. Cit.




3. In the earlier times, as Gertrude Himmelfarb explains: "There was nothing invidious in being preached to. What was invidious was not being preached to, not having access to the kinds of moral, religious and communal experiences that were a normal part of life for those not so poor as to be deprived of them".
A stark reversal was the result of the new emphasis on materialism, actually producing folks who rail about 'religion being forced down their throat.'
Quite an exaggeration, I believe.

'Welfare' was was taken over by Franklin Roosevelt's government, moving it out of the realm of the private charities.
Lyndon Johnson was the second coming of Franklin Roosevelt.



4. " Governments have enacted enormous welfare programs to try to feed, clothe, shelter, educate and transport their citizens and even to put cell phones in their hands....the welfare state has grown to consume nearly a third of the government’s annual budget. In 1965, President Lyndon Johnson launched a massive spending program to eradicate poverty in the world’s richest nation. But the program didn’t defeat poverty. Instead, it created welfare dependency, laziness and opportunity for fraud.

a. In 1960, nearly two thirds of these heads of households worked. But by 1991, only one third of them worked, and only 11 percent worked full-time, year-round.... 45 million Americans (14.5 percent) are still living below the poverty line."
The Welfare System That Works - theTrumpet.com


Of course, the current resident of the White House has made it even worse.
Then state for the record that you want to end all welfare. Flip flop on your previous positions.
We cannot end all welfare simply because providing for the general welfare is in our Constitution.

You could not be more wrong. You could try, but you would not be successful.


It seems you require remedial education as to the meaning of 'welfare' in 'general welfare.'

  1. Article I, section 8, clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;….
    1. Hamilton’s view was that this clause gave Congress the power to tax and spend for the general welfare, whatsoever they decide that might be.
    2. William Drayton, in 1828, came down on the side of Madison, Jefferson and others, pointing out that if Hamilton was correct, what point would there have been to enumerate Congresses’ other powers? If Congress wished to do anything it was not authorized to do, it could accomplish it via taxing and spending. He said, "If Congress can determine what constitutes the general welfare and can appropriate money for its advancement, where is the limitation to carrying into execution whatever can be effected by money?" Charity Not a Proper Function of the American Government by Walter E. Williams
Clearly, the welfare system of today is not one of the enumerated powers.

As Thomas Jefferson once wrote regarding the "general Welfare" clause:

To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his father has acquired too much, in order to spare to others who (or whose fathers) have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, "to guarantee to everyone a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it." US Department of the Treasury

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Delta4Embassy

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Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and break the yoke from the oppressed and the glory of God shall be your rear guard.

That's the religious view of welfare.
 

Moonglow

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Then the FF's should have been a little more clear on vague comments...and expressions...
 

danielpalos

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While Leftism is a religion of 'rights,' real religion is based on obligations.


The great difference between the two concepts can best be seen when the discussion gets around to the welfare system.


1. Marvin Olasky, in "The Tragedy of American Compassion," explains that, in earlier times,human needs were taken care of by other human beings-not by bureaucracies. The important difference was that the latter may take care of food and shelter...but the formeralso dealt with the human spirit and behavior.

Welfare programs today, are Liberal….conservatives don’t look for material solutions, but understand that changing values is what solves the problem of poverty..

a. The government's welfare plan is based on a lack of understanding of human nature: those accepting largesse without working for same hate themselves, and learn to hate the giver as well.
"If you pick up a stray dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. That is the principal difference between dogs and men." Mark Twain.




2. In earlier times, before materialism and secularism took their toll, social communication proceeded, largely, from church sermons. And sermons, frequently propounding the need for personal help and hospitality, were "powerful in shaping cultural values, meanings, and a sense of corporate purpose."
"The New England Soul: Preaching and Religious Culture in Colonial New England," p. 3,byHarry S. Stout

a. "...compassion and Mercy to the poor is Conformity to God."
Benjamin Colman, " The merchandise of a people holiness to the Lord : A sermon preached in part at the publick lecture in Boston, July 1. 1725"


b. So, in times where God was considered a personal intervenor ( e.g., "God's Providence"), the premise was that charity should not be limited to the clockwork view that it was simply money to be handed over...."God values our hearts and spirits above all our silver and gold....If a man gives all the substance of his house instead of love, ....it would be condemned."
Benjamin Colman, Op. Cit.




3. In the earlier times, as Gertrude Himmelfarb explains: "There was nothing invidious in being preached to. What was invidious was not being preached to, not having access to the kinds of moral, religious and communal experiences that were a normal part of life for those not so poor as to be deprived of them".
A stark reversal was the result of the new emphasis on materialism, actually producing folks who rail about 'religion being forced down their throat.'
Quite an exaggeration, I believe.

'Welfare' was was taken over by Franklin Roosevelt's government, moving it out of the realm of the private charities.
Lyndon Johnson was the second coming of Franklin Roosevelt.



4. " Governments have enacted enormous welfare programs to try to feed, clothe, shelter, educate and transport their citizens and even to put cell phones in their hands....the welfare state has grown to consume nearly a third of the government’s annual budget. In 1965, President Lyndon Johnson launched a massive spending program to eradicate poverty in the world’s richest nation. But the program didn’t defeat poverty. Instead, it created welfare dependency, laziness and opportunity for fraud.

a. In 1960, nearly two thirds of these heads of households worked. But by 1991, only one third of them worked, and only 11 percent worked full-time, year-round.... 45 million Americans (14.5 percent) are still living below the poverty line."
The Welfare System That Works - theTrumpet.com


Of course, the current resident of the White House has made it even worse.
Then state for the record that you want to end all welfare. Flip flop on your previous positions.



Hmmm......where are all of your examples in support of the charge you've made?

None?


I suppose this is the reason why you are the "NYLiar," huh?
You are basing it on a fallacy of composition (potentially through an appeal to ignorance) and then a fallacy of false cause.

It is simple socialism 101:

Nothing is more certain than the indispensable necessity of government, and it is equally undeniable, that whenever and however it is instituted, the people must cede to it some of their natural rights in order to vest it with requisite powers.--The Federalist Number 2

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises,

to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States;

but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;


This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

Our supreme law of the land is more supreme than even Any commandments of Religion simply because our Founding Fathers ordained and established and spake it thus, in Article the Sixth.
 

Moonglow

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Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and break the yoke from the oppressed and the glory of God shall be your rear guard.

That's the religious view of welfare.
The religious could not handle the poor and starving in the large numbers after industrialization....
 

Delta4Embassy

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Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and break the yoke from the oppressed and the glory of God shall be your rear guard.

That's the religious view of welfare.
The religious could not handle the poor and starving in the large numbers after industrialization....
That's capitalism's fault. It is not a pro-Christian system.
 

danielpalos

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While Leftism is a religion of 'rights,' real religion is based on obligations.


The great difference between the two concepts can best be seen when the discussion gets around to the welfare system.


1. Marvin Olasky, in "The Tragedy of American Compassion," explains that, in earlier times,human needs were taken care of by other human beings-not by bureaucracies. The important difference was that the latter may take care of food and shelter...but the formeralso dealt with the human spirit and behavior.

Welfare programs today, are Liberal….conservatives don’t look for material solutions, but understand that changing values is what solves the problem of poverty..

a. The government's welfare plan is based on a lack of understanding of human nature: those accepting largesse without working for same hate themselves, and learn to hate the giver as well.
"If you pick up a stray dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. That is the principal difference between dogs and men." Mark Twain.

2. In earlier times, before materialism and secularism took their toll, social communication proceeded, largely, from church sermons. And sermons, frequently propounding the need for personal help and hospitality, were "powerful in shaping cultural values, meanings, and a sense of corporate purpose."
"The New England Soul: Preaching and Religious Culture in Colonial New England," p. 3,byHarry S. Stout

a. "...compassion and Mercy to the poor is Conformity to God."
Benjamin Colman, " The merchandise of a people holiness to the Lord : A sermon preached in part at the publick lecture in Boston, July 1. 1725"


b. So, in times where God was considered a personal intervenor ( e.g., "God's Providence"), the premise was that charity should not be limited to the clockwork view that it was simply money to be handed over...."God values our hearts and spirits above all our silver and gold....If a man gives all the substance of his house instead of love, ....it would be condemned."
Benjamin Colman, Op. Cit.




3. In the earlier times, as Gertrude Himmelfarb explains: "There was nothing invidious in being preached to. What was invidious was not being preached to, not having access to the kinds of moral, religious and communal experiences that were a normal part of life for those not so poor as to be deprived of them".
A stark reversal was the result of the new emphasis on materialism, actually producing folks who rail about 'religion being forced down their throat.'
Quite an exaggeration, I believe.

'Welfare' was was taken over by Franklin Roosevelt's government, moving it out of the realm of the private charities.
Lyndon Johnson was the second coming of Franklin Roosevelt.



4. " Governments have enacted enormous welfare programs to try to feed, clothe, shelter, educate and transport their citizens and even to put cell phones in their hands....the welfare state has grown to consume nearly a third of the government’s annual budget. In 1965, President Lyndon Johnson launched a massive spending program to eradicate poverty in the world’s richest nation. But the program didn’t defeat poverty. Instead, it created welfare dependency, laziness and opportunity for fraud.

a. In 1960, nearly two thirds of these heads of households worked. But by 1991, only one third of them worked, and only 11 percent worked full-time, year-round.... 45 million Americans (14.5 percent) are still living below the poverty line."
The Welfare System That Works - theTrumpet.com


Of course, the current resident of the White House has made it even worse.
Then state for the record that you want to end all welfare. Flip flop on your previous positions.



Hmmm......where are all of your examples in support of the charge you've made?

None?


I suppose this is the reason why you are the "NYLiar," huh?
What is your position on Medicaid?
That we solve simple poverty and reserve means tested welfare for those for whom solving for a simple poverty of money in our political-economy, may not be enough.
 

Moonglow

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Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and break the yoke from the oppressed and the glory of God shall be your rear guard.

That's the religious view of welfare.
The religious could not handle the poor and starving in the large numbers after industrialization....
That's capitalism's fault. It is not a pro-Christian system.
Christianity is an agrarian based society philosophy......and has yet come up to the present....
 
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Then the FF's should have been a little more clear on vague comments...and expressions...

You find this 'unclear'?????

"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his father has acquired too much, in order to spare to others who (or whose fathers) have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, "to guarantee to everyone a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."
Jefferson
 

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Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and break the yoke from the oppressed and the glory of God shall be your rear guard.

That's the religious view of welfare.
The religious could not handle the poor and starving in the large numbers after industrialization....
That's capitalism's fault. It is not a pro-Christian system.
Christianity is an agrarian based society philosophy......and has yet come up to the present....
Only 2000 years though, and the sincerity expressed by Christians of the recent past is all but gone today. It's being marginalized and made more and more quaint.
 

Moonglow

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Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and break the yoke from the oppressed and the glory of God shall be your rear guard.

That's the religious view of welfare.
The religious could not handle the poor and starving in the large numbers after industrialization....
That's capitalism's fault. It is not a pro-Christian system.
Christianity is an agrarian based society philosophy......and has yet come up to the present....
Only 2000 years though, and the sincerity expressed by Christians of the recent past is all but gone today. It's being marginalized and made more and more quaint.
The Roman Catholics did all they could to kill the original church and it's gospels, and also any competition from any sects that sprang up and grew to powerful...
 

danielpalos

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While Leftism is a religion of 'rights,' real religion is based on obligations.


The great difference between the two concepts can best be seen when the discussion gets around to the welfare system.


1. Marvin Olasky, in "The Tragedy of American Compassion," explains that, in earlier times,human needs were taken care of by other human beings-not by bureaucracies. The important difference was that the latter may take care of food and shelter...but the formeralso dealt with the human spirit and behavior.

Welfare programs today, are Liberal….conservatives don’t look for material solutions, but understand that changing values is what solves the problem of poverty..

a. The government's welfare plan is based on a lack of understanding of human nature: those accepting largesse without working for same hate themselves, and learn to hate the giver as well.
"If you pick up a stray dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. That is the principal difference between dogs and men." Mark Twain.




2. In earlier times, before materialism and secularism took their toll, social communication proceeded, largely, from church sermons. And sermons, frequently propounding the need for personal help and hospitality, were "powerful in shaping cultural values, meanings, and a sense of corporate purpose."
"The New England Soul: Preaching and Religious Culture in Colonial New England," p. 3,byHarry S. Stout

a. "...compassion and Mercy to the poor is Conformity to God."
Benjamin Colman, " The merchandise of a people holiness to the Lord : A sermon preached in part at the publick lecture in Boston, July 1. 1725"


b. So, in times where God was considered a personal intervenor ( e.g., "God's Providence"), the premise was that charity should not be limited to the clockwork view that it was simply money to be handed over...."God values our hearts and spirits above all our silver and gold....If a man gives all the substance of his house instead of love, ....it would be condemned."
Benjamin Colman, Op. Cit.




3. In the earlier times, as Gertrude Himmelfarb explains: "There was nothing invidious in being preached to. What was invidious was not being preached to, not having access to the kinds of moral, religious and communal experiences that were a normal part of life for those not so poor as to be deprived of them".
A stark reversal was the result of the new emphasis on materialism, actually producing folks who rail about 'religion being forced down their throat.'
Quite an exaggeration, I believe.

'Welfare' was was taken over by Franklin Roosevelt's government, moving it out of the realm of the private charities.
Lyndon Johnson was the second coming of Franklin Roosevelt.



4. " Governments have enacted enormous welfare programs to try to feed, clothe, shelter, educate and transport their citizens and even to put cell phones in their hands....the welfare state has grown to consume nearly a third of the government’s annual budget. In 1965, President Lyndon Johnson launched a massive spending program to eradicate poverty in the world’s richest nation. But the program didn’t defeat poverty. Instead, it created welfare dependency, laziness and opportunity for fraud.

a. In 1960, nearly two thirds of these heads of households worked. But by 1991, only one third of them worked, and only 11 percent worked full-time, year-round.... 45 million Americans (14.5 percent) are still living below the poverty line."
The Welfare System That Works - theTrumpet.com


Of course, the current resident of the White House has made it even worse.
Then state for the record that you want to end all welfare. Flip flop on your previous positions.
We cannot end all welfare simply because providing for the general welfare is in our Constitution.

You could not be more wrong. You could try, but you would not be successful.


It seems you require remedial education as to the meaning of 'welfare' in 'general welfare.'

  1. Article I, section 8, clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;….
    1. Hamilton’s view was that this clause gave Congress the power to tax and spend for the general welfare, whatsoever they decide that might be.
    2. William Drayton, in 1828, came down on the side of Madison, Jefferson and others, pointing out that if Hamilton was correct, what point would there have been to enumerate Congresses’ other powers? If Congress wished to do anything it was not authorized to do, it could accomplish it via taxing and spending. He said, "If Congress can determine what constitutes the general welfare and can appropriate money for its advancement, where is the limitation to carrying into execution whatever can be effected by money?" Charity Not a Proper Function of the American Government by Walter E. Williams
Clearly, the welfare system of today is not one of the enumerated powers.

As Thomas Jefferson once wrote regarding the "general Welfare" clause:

To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his father has acquired too much, in order to spare to others who (or whose fathers) have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, "to guarantee to everyone a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it." US Department of the Treasury

Founding.com A Project of the Claremont Institute

Propaganda and rhetoric is simply that; there is no Appeal to Ignorance of our own laws.

Let us examine the terms, to provide for the general welfare. Do you agree that
providing for the general welfare must be distinguishable from providing for the private welfare, and even any, more dogmatic, (sergeant) major general welfare?

It seems that the diversion of the right that any Thing and every Thing is ok for the alleged, common Defense, but no amount of socialism is ok for the general welfare if it may have any benefit for the least wealthy under our form of Capitalism, regardless of any socialism of a religion regarding a moral of "goodwill toward men".

Thus, if you feel that way, how can you justify your view of the common defense as distinguished from the common Offense or the general Warfare?
 

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