A message from a Mexican to The USA

Correll

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"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." Thomas Paine
Amen!
Lol amen your idiot buddy there
How is defending illegals collecting benefits from state government burrecracies fit into the libertarian movement and belief systems

Many state social service programs at thier core are anti liberty..... rules and regulations apply to all who collect ...people are wards of the state in a way .even a set of guidelines on who gets what and what qualified a person to be eligible to collect

ya know the topic of the thread is mexicans went home because they lost thier jobs and couldnt collect corona cash ...a true libertarain would be calling for the abolishment of these institutions as easily as you're calling for non regualted wide open borders free from government .

Free market starve or eat on your own for all...come back n forth across the border on your own for all ...that would make much more logical sense then repeatedly calling everyone who doesnt agree a bigot

You guys are shot and living in dreamworld

One thing I despise is a LIAR. YOU ARE A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR. We forfeited our Liberties and the Tea Party Republicans passed Orwellian laws (i.e. the National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify) on the promise it was going to keep undocumented foreigners from getting welfare and freebies. And here YOUR LYING ASS is, misrepresenting my every post, wanting more and more POLICE STATE intervention. Now that you've moved the bar to "state" benefits, I live in Georgia and have no legal say so in at least 49 other states in this Union. I can tell you that undocumented foreigners here get very very limited benefits - usually those that could save you.
I see undocumented aliens getting sanctuary without the consent of the local constituency. Now, I see 3 Mexicans in booth at the DMV clearly marked one person per booth (on cell phones which where also banned). And the newly passed Moter-Voter law...And the local politicians creating "sanctuary" for undocumented foreigners. Many of us are so disgusted with our so called state "governments". What can we do? Vote for Trump or something? What's the alternative?
Sanctuary was won by right wing conservatives. Sheriffs did not want to enforce unconstitutional gun laws. So, the United States Supreme Court ruled that the federal government cannot command state and local governments, forcing them to enforce federal laws. State and local governments that do not want to enforce federal immigration laws cannot be forced to do so. The short sighted thinking of the anti - liberty / POLICE STATE / MAGA supporters is to somehow overthrow sanctuary because of people they call "illegal aliens." IF those people prevail, gun owners would have NO recourse except to surrender to federal gun control laws even when their governor agrees that the feds actions may be unconstitutional. I could come up with a few more scenarios where having sanctuary is necessary. But, then this post would be TLDR.

Voting for Donald Trump does nothing to help you. Trump cannot over-rule the holding in the United States Supreme Court and if gun owners found out he made it possible for a legal federal gun confiscation scenario to take place, if Americans didn't rebel, then the ultimate POLICE STATE could not be refuted or dismissed. It would be official.

Unless and until those obsessed over the issue level with us, NOBODY can tell them what viable alternatives they may have. So, which bothers you? Are you upset because you think they violated some sacred law OR do you see immigration in general as being antithetical to our values?

She made 4 points in her post.


1. The local governments not representing their constituents.

2. The immigrants not respecting the laws or culture of her society.

3. The inability of the political system to deal with it,

4. and the lack of alternatives for the People.


Your response addressed none of her issues, but did contain significant elements of snark and ridicule.
 

Gdjjr

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. and the lack of alternatives for the People.
Liberty- Period. Unless, of course you believe in inalienable rights over unalienable rights- which you have yet to answer when asked which leaves but one alternative for this people- you prefer to not be cornered by one who espouses Liberty as the ONLY way to live- they are an UNalienable rights, not inalienable.

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. The war is actually begun! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

Do you know where the above came from? As has been said, the past is prelude.
 

Gdjjr

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Lol Freemarket libertarians for government social services cause all men are created equal pfft
Can you prove other men get here a different way? That they don't bleed red? Your ignorance about libertarians shows you're NOT well read yet you have the audacity to speak disparagingly of someone who is not only well read, but a lot more knowledgeable than you- your narrow and shallow minded attitude is sad-
There are some things things at play here I want to point out.

1, Some things cannot be denied
2, There is but one Truth (all men are created equal and have certain unalienable rights) all else is knowledge
3, Knowledge evolves
4, Knowledge isn't biased in its origin
5, Knowledge can manifest itself in ways unimaginable
6, Truth is constant. What was true yesterday is true today and will be true tomorrow.
7, See number one

Here- try reading to expand (let it evolve) your knowledge base-

STATEMENT OF PRINCIPLES
We, the members of the Libertarian Party, challenge the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual.
We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.
Governments throughout history have regularly operated on the opposite principle, that the State has the right to dispose of the lives of individuals and the fruits of their labor. Even within the United States, all political parties other than our own grant to government the right to regulate the lives of individuals and seize the fruits of their labor without their consent.
We, on the contrary, deny the right of any government to do these things, and hold that where governments exist, they must not violate the rights of any individual: namely, (1) the right to life — accordingly we support the prohibition of the initiation of physical force against others; (2) the right to liberty of speech and action — accordingly we oppose all attempts by government to abridge the freedom of speech and press, as well as government censorship in any form; and (3) the right to property — accordingly we oppose all government interference with private property, such as confiscation, nationalization, and eminent domain, and support the prohibition of robbery, trespass, fraud, and misrepresentation.
Since governments, when instituted, must not violate individual rights, we oppose all interference by government in the areas of voluntary and contractual relations among individuals. People should not be forced to sacrifice their lives and property for the benefit of others. They should be left free by government to deal with one another as free traders; and the resultant economic system, the only one compatible with the protection of individual rights, is the free market.


2.0 Economic Liberty
Libertarians want all members of society to have abundant opportunities to achieve economic success. A free and competitive market allocates resources in the most efficient manner. Each person has the right to offer goods and services to others on the free market. The only proper role of government in the economic realm is to protect property rights, adjudicate disputes, and provide a legal framework in which voluntary trade is protected. All efforts by government to redistribute wealth, or to control or manage trade, are improper in a free society.

Now, as I've said, at every opportunity, I don't subscribe to a Party. But, I felt compelled to show you where you're thinking? is wrong- the link provides you with no ammunition for your unfounded criticism, which sounds more like a Duopoly Party talking point than it does anything else.
 

Correll

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. and the lack of alternatives for the People.
Liberty- Period. Unless, of course you believe in inalienable rights over unalienable rights- which you have yet to answer when asked which leaves but one alternative for this people- you prefer to not be cornered by one who espouses Liberty as the ONLY way to live- they are an UNalienable rights, not inalienable.

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. The war is actually begun! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

Do you know where the above came from? As has been said, the past is prelude.

Having her community overrun by outsiders who do not respect her laws or culture or interests,


is not Liberty, it is just Weakness.


The weakness of a society that cannot protect itself.
 

Porter Rockwell

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"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." Thomas Paine
Amen!
Lol amen your idiot buddy there
How is defending illegals collecting benefits from state government burrecracies fit into the libertarian movement and belief systems

Many state social service programs at thier core are anti liberty..... rules and regulations apply to all who collect ...people are wards of the state in a way .even a set of guidelines on who gets what and what qualified a person to be eligible to collect

ya know the topic of the thread is mexicans went home because they lost thier jobs and couldnt collect corona cash ...a true libertarain would be calling for the abolishment of these institutions as easily as you're calling for non regualted wide open borders free from government .

Free market starve or eat on your own for all...come back n forth across the border on your own for all ...that would make much more logical sense then repeatedly calling everyone who doesnt agree a bigot

You guys are shot and living in dreamworld

One thing I despise is a LIAR. YOU ARE A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR. We forfeited our Liberties and the Tea Party Republicans passed Orwellian laws (i.e. the National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify) on the promise it was going to keep undocumented foreigners from getting welfare and freebies. And here YOUR LYING ASS is, misrepresenting my every post, wanting more and more POLICE STATE intervention. Now that you've moved the bar to "state" benefits, I live in Georgia and have no legal say so in at least 49 other states in this Union. I can tell you that undocumented foreigners here get very very limited benefits - usually those that could save you.
I see undocumented aliens getting sanctuary without the consent of the local constituency. Now, I see 3 Mexicans in booth at the DMV clearly marked one person per booth (on cell phones which where also banned). And the newly passed Moter-Voter law...And the local politicians creating "sanctuary" for undocumented foreigners. Many of us are so disgusted with our so called state "governments". What can we do? Vote for Trump or something? What's the alternative?
Sanctuary was won by right wing conservatives. Sheriffs did not want to enforce unconstitutional gun laws. So, the United States Supreme Court ruled that the federal government cannot command state and local governments, forcing them to enforce federal laws. State and local governments that do not want to enforce federal immigration laws cannot be forced to do so. The short sighted thinking of the anti - liberty / POLICE STATE / MAGA supporters is to somehow overthrow sanctuary because of people they call "illegal aliens." IF those people prevail, gun owners would have NO recourse except to surrender to federal gun control laws even when their governor agrees that the feds actions may be unconstitutional. I could come up with a few more scenarios where having sanctuary is necessary. But, then this post would be TLDR.

Voting for Donald Trump does nothing to help you. Trump cannot over-rule the holding in the United States Supreme Court and if gun owners found out he made it possible for a legal federal gun confiscation scenario to take place, if Americans didn't rebel, then the ultimate POLICE STATE could not be refuted or dismissed. It would be official.

Unless and until those obsessed over the issue level with us, NOBODY can tell them what viable alternatives they may have. So, which bothers you? Are you upset because you think they violated some sacred law OR do you see immigration in general as being antithetical to our values?

She made 4 points in her post.


1. The local governments not representing their constituents.

2. The immigrants not respecting the laws or culture of her society.

3. The inability of the political system to deal with it,

4. and the lack of alternatives for the People.


Your response addressed none of her issues, but did contain significant elements of snark and ridicule.
You're posting silliness. I have not ridiculed the woman at all. Neither am I being snarky. She is an immigrant. MaryL. in this thread and others is against sanctuary. The problem is, many Second Amendment Sanctuary Cities are popping up all over America so that the feds cannot force state and local governments from enforcing unconstitutional federal gun control laws. She doesn't want to accept that.

Local governments ARE representing their constituents. It's just that the left is winning out on this immigration issue. Why? The people like you and MaryL. have failed to state a cause of action upon which relief may be granted. If you look at the numbers of foreigners that were entering the United States and the numbers of undocumented foreigners we had a quarter of a century ago, it's been pretty consistent in terms of the percentages. In other words, the feds are controlling it. They just aren't controlling it to the liking of the right. There are NO alternatives to an issue you cannot articulate. For example, if you tell me you are getting your boxers in a bunch over foreigners violating a civil misdemeanor of the law that, in a worst case scenario, nets them a $250 fine and a few months in jail, then I'd say you need Dr. Phil. Drunk drivers pose a much more serious threat.

If you're just mad because they aren't citizens, then the government can offer them citizenship. Insofar as immigrants not respecting the laws or culture of OUR society (she's an immigrant IIRC), then it clearly is NOT a legal issue. The overwhelming majority of the so - called "legal" variety of immigrants don't respect your culture OR your laws. They want to repeal all of them. It is up to the voters to elect knowledgeable public servants that can and will pass laws consistent with the Constitution in order to deal with this.
 

Gdjjr

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Having her community overrun by outsiders who do not respect her laws or culture or interests,


is not Liberty, it is just Weakness.


The weakness of a society that cannot protect itself.
I disagree- the Liberty to do business (and or associate) with whomever one pleases will expand Liberty which will afford a protection NO godvernment empty suit bureaucrat even wants to protect. Relying on another for direction means one has to follow (comply) in order to achieve protection.... and then that isn't a guarantee.
 

Porter Rockwell

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. and the lack of alternatives for the People.
Liberty- Period. Unless, of course you believe in inalienable rights over unalienable rights- which you have yet to answer when asked which leaves but one alternative for this people- you prefer to not be cornered by one who espouses Liberty as the ONLY way to live- they are an UNalienable rights, not inalienable.

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. The war is actually begun! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

Do you know where the above came from? As has been said, the past is prelude.

Having her community overrun by outsiders who do not respect her laws or culture or interests,


is not Liberty, it is just Weakness.


The weakness of a society that cannot protect itself.
When we have a system that encourages outsiders (sic) to get some human registration papers and participate in the process, you're simply being "legally" over-run and the only person you can blame is yourself. Whatever laws you contemplate leave you with making some drastic changes OR you are going to have to accept the direction the majority is taking us.

I don't know what I have to do in order to get you to answer three or four questions honestly, but without knowing what you're really complaining about, not even Jesus could help you in a prayer.
 

Correll

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"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." Thomas Paine
Amen!
Lol amen your idiot buddy there
How is defending illegals collecting benefits from state government burrecracies fit into the libertarian movement and belief systems

Many state social service programs at thier core are anti liberty..... rules and regulations apply to all who collect ...people are wards of the state in a way .even a set of guidelines on who gets what and what qualified a person to be eligible to collect

ya know the topic of the thread is mexicans went home because they lost thier jobs and couldnt collect corona cash ...a true libertarain would be calling for the abolishment of these institutions as easily as you're calling for non regualted wide open borders free from government .

Free market starve or eat on your own for all...come back n forth across the border on your own for all ...that would make much more logical sense then repeatedly calling everyone who doesnt agree a bigot

You guys are shot and living in dreamworld

One thing I despise is a LIAR. YOU ARE A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR. We forfeited our Liberties and the Tea Party Republicans passed Orwellian laws (i.e. the National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify) on the promise it was going to keep undocumented foreigners from getting welfare and freebies. And here YOUR LYING ASS is, misrepresenting my every post, wanting more and more POLICE STATE intervention. Now that you've moved the bar to "state" benefits, I live in Georgia and have no legal say so in at least 49 other states in this Union. I can tell you that undocumented foreigners here get very very limited benefits - usually those that could save you.
I see undocumented aliens getting sanctuary without the consent of the local constituency. Now, I see 3 Mexicans in booth at the DMV clearly marked one person per booth (on cell phones which where also banned). And the newly passed Moter-Voter law...And the local politicians creating "sanctuary" for undocumented foreigners. Many of us are so disgusted with our so called state "governments". What can we do? Vote for Trump or something? What's the alternative?
Sanctuary was won by right wing conservatives. Sheriffs did not want to enforce unconstitutional gun laws. So, the United States Supreme Court ruled that the federal government cannot command state and local governments, forcing them to enforce federal laws. State and local governments that do not want to enforce federal immigration laws cannot be forced to do so. The short sighted thinking of the anti - liberty / POLICE STATE / MAGA supporters is to somehow overthrow sanctuary because of people they call "illegal aliens." IF those people prevail, gun owners would have NO recourse except to surrender to federal gun control laws even when their governor agrees that the feds actions may be unconstitutional. I could come up with a few more scenarios where having sanctuary is necessary. But, then this post would be TLDR.

Voting for Donald Trump does nothing to help you. Trump cannot over-rule the holding in the United States Supreme Court and if gun owners found out he made it possible for a legal federal gun confiscation scenario to take place, if Americans didn't rebel, then the ultimate POLICE STATE could not be refuted or dismissed. It would be official.

Unless and until those obsessed over the issue level with us, NOBODY can tell them what viable alternatives they may have. So, which bothers you? Are you upset because you think they violated some sacred law OR do you see immigration in general as being antithetical to our values?

She made 4 points in her post.


1. The local governments not representing their constituents.

2. The immigrants not respecting the laws or culture of her society.

3. The inability of the political system to deal with it,

4. and the lack of alternatives for the People.


Your response addressed none of her issues, but did contain significant elements of snark and ridicule.
You're posting silliness. I have not ridiculed the woman at all. Neither am I being snarky. She is an immigrant. MaryL. in this thread and others is against sanctuary. The problem is, many Second Amendment Sanctuary Cities are popping up all over America so that the feds cannot force state and local governments from enforcing unconstitutional federal gun control laws. She doesn't want to accept that.

Local governments ARE representing their constituents. It's just that the left is winning out on this immigration issue. Why? The people like you and MaryL. have failed to state a cause of action upon which relief may be granted. If you look at the numbers of foreigners that were entering the United States and the numbers of undocumented foreigners we had a quarter of a century ago, it's been pretty consistent in terms of the percentages. In other words, the feds are controlling it. They just aren't controlling it to the liking of the right. There are NO alternatives to an issue you cannot articulate. For example, if you tell me you are getting your boxers in a bunch over foreigners violating a civil misdemeanor of the law that, in a worst case scenario, nets them a $250 fine and a few months in jail, then I'd say you need Dr. Phil. Drunk drivers pose a much more serious threat.

If you're just mad because they aren't citizens, then the government can offer them citizenship. Insofar as immigrants not respecting the laws or culture of OUR society (she's an immigrant IIRC), then it clearly is NOT a legal issue. The overwhelming majority of the so - called "legal" variety of immigrants don't respect your culture OR your laws. They want to repeal all of them. It is up to the voters to elect knowledgeable public servants that can and will pass laws consistent with the Constitution in order to deal with this.

Our political class sabotages any candidates that want to do that. Our media lies about them. Our political class lies about their intent and the effects of their laws and policies.


ANd, responding to her point with a comment about "sacred laws" is snark.

And what do you mean, "she is an immigrant"?
 

Correll

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Having her community overrun by outsiders who do not respect her laws or culture or interests,


is not Liberty, it is just Weakness.


The weakness of a society that cannot protect itself.
I disagree- the Liberty to do business (and or associate) with whomever one pleases will expand Liberty which will afford a protection NO godvernment empty suit bureaucrat even wants to protect. Relying on another for direction means one has to follow (comply) in order to achieve protection.... and then that isn't a guarantee.

Letting outsiders invade and take over your territory, is not a protection. It will not help her at all. They are not coming to help, they are coming to advance and serve THEIR interests.

Saying "liberty" is not an argument.
 

Correll

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. and the lack of alternatives for the People.
Liberty- Period. Unless, of course you believe in inalienable rights over unalienable rights- which you have yet to answer when asked which leaves but one alternative for this people- you prefer to not be cornered by one who espouses Liberty as the ONLY way to live- they are an UNalienable rights, not inalienable.

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. The war is actually begun! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

Do you know where the above came from? As has been said, the past is prelude.

Having her community overrun by outsiders who do not respect her laws or culture or interests,


is not Liberty, it is just Weakness.


The weakness of a society that cannot protect itself.
When we have a system that encourages outsiders (sic) to get some human registration papers and participate in the process, you're simply being "legally" over-run and the only person you can blame is yourself. Whatever laws you contemplate leave you with making some drastic changes OR you are going to have to accept the direction the majority is taking us.

I don't know what I have to do in order to get you to answer three or four questions honestly, but without knowing what you're really complaining about, not even Jesus could help you in a prayer.




IF the public was kept informed and the politicians honest about their intent and their policies, and their planned actions, and still won elections, then you could say, that it is just the "direction the majority is taking us. "

But none of that is happening, so blaming the Political Class and media, is valid.
 

Porter Rockwell

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"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." Thomas Paine
Amen!
Lol amen your idiot buddy there
How is defending illegals collecting benefits from state government burrecracies fit into the libertarian movement and belief systems

Many state social service programs at thier core are anti liberty..... rules and regulations apply to all who collect ...people are wards of the state in a way .even a set of guidelines on who gets what and what qualified a person to be eligible to collect

ya know the topic of the thread is mexicans went home because they lost thier jobs and couldnt collect corona cash ...a true libertarain would be calling for the abolishment of these institutions as easily as you're calling for non regualted wide open borders free from government .

Free market starve or eat on your own for all...come back n forth across the border on your own for all ...that would make much more logical sense then repeatedly calling everyone who doesnt agree a bigot

You guys are shot and living in dreamworld

One thing I despise is a LIAR. YOU ARE A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR. We forfeited our Liberties and the Tea Party Republicans passed Orwellian laws (i.e. the National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify) on the promise it was going to keep undocumented foreigners from getting welfare and freebies. And here YOUR LYING ASS is, misrepresenting my every post, wanting more and more POLICE STATE intervention. Now that you've moved the bar to "state" benefits, I live in Georgia and have no legal say so in at least 49 other states in this Union. I can tell you that undocumented foreigners here get very very limited benefits - usually those that could save you.
I see undocumented aliens getting sanctuary without the consent of the local constituency. Now, I see 3 Mexicans in booth at the DMV clearly marked one person per booth (on cell phones which where also banned). And the newly passed Moter-Voter law...And the local politicians creating "sanctuary" for undocumented foreigners. Many of us are so disgusted with our so called state "governments". What can we do? Vote for Trump or something? What's the alternative?
Sanctuary was won by right wing conservatives. Sheriffs did not want to enforce unconstitutional gun laws. So, the United States Supreme Court ruled that the federal government cannot command state and local governments, forcing them to enforce federal laws. State and local governments that do not want to enforce federal immigration laws cannot be forced to do so. The short sighted thinking of the anti - liberty / POLICE STATE / MAGA supporters is to somehow overthrow sanctuary because of people they call "illegal aliens." IF those people prevail, gun owners would have NO recourse except to surrender to federal gun control laws even when their governor agrees that the feds actions may be unconstitutional. I could come up with a few more scenarios where having sanctuary is necessary. But, then this post would be TLDR.

Voting for Donald Trump does nothing to help you. Trump cannot over-rule the holding in the United States Supreme Court and if gun owners found out he made it possible for a legal federal gun confiscation scenario to take place, if Americans didn't rebel, then the ultimate POLICE STATE could not be refuted or dismissed. It would be official.

Unless and until those obsessed over the issue level with us, NOBODY can tell them what viable alternatives they may have. So, which bothers you? Are you upset because you think they violated some sacred law OR do you see immigration in general as being antithetical to our values?

She made 4 points in her post.


1. The local governments not representing their constituents.

2. The immigrants not respecting the laws or culture of her society.

3. The inability of the political system to deal with it,

4. and the lack of alternatives for the People.


Your response addressed none of her issues, but did contain significant elements of snark and ridicule.
You're posting silliness. I have not ridiculed the woman at all. Neither am I being snarky. She is an immigrant. MaryL. in this thread and others is against sanctuary. The problem is, many Second Amendment Sanctuary Cities are popping up all over America so that the feds cannot force state and local governments from enforcing unconstitutional federal gun control laws. She doesn't want to accept that.

Local governments ARE representing their constituents. It's just that the left is winning out on this immigration issue. Why? The people like you and MaryL. have failed to state a cause of action upon which relief may be granted. If you look at the numbers of foreigners that were entering the United States and the numbers of undocumented foreigners we had a quarter of a century ago, it's been pretty consistent in terms of the percentages. In other words, the feds are controlling it. They just aren't controlling it to the liking of the right. There are NO alternatives to an issue you cannot articulate. For example, if you tell me you are getting your boxers in a bunch over foreigners violating a civil misdemeanor of the law that, in a worst case scenario, nets them a $250 fine and a few months in jail, then I'd say you need Dr. Phil. Drunk drivers pose a much more serious threat.

If you're just mad because they aren't citizens, then the government can offer them citizenship. Insofar as immigrants not respecting the laws or culture of OUR society (she's an immigrant IIRC), then it clearly is NOT a legal issue. The overwhelming majority of the so - called "legal" variety of immigrants don't respect your culture OR your laws. They want to repeal all of them. It is up to the voters to elect knowledgeable public servants that can and will pass laws consistent with the Constitution in order to deal with this.

Our political class sabotages any candidates that want to do that. Our media lies about them. Our political class lies about their intent and the effects of their laws and policies.


ANd, responding to her point with a comment about "sacred laws" is snark.

And what do you mean, "she is an immigrant"?
IIRC in a post on another thread I thought she said she came here "legally." I might be mistaken; it may have been her parents. In any case, she is the product of what her parents or the cults have taught her. MaryL. consistently refuses to answer questions I've asked such as "Have you ever read the Constitution?" When I ask if someone believes that foreigners violated some sacred law, it's not meant to be snarky, it is an honest and objective question.

Coming into the United States without papers is the federal equivalent of making an improper U Turn. It is, technically speaking, a federal civil misdemeanor. The United States Supreme Court has gone so far as to state that it is not a crime to be in the United States without papers. So, knowing that this is statutory law and has been ruled on by the United States Supreme Court, it's not the fault of any legislator at any level because the United States Supreme Court has claimed that THEY, not we, the sheeple, are the final arbiters of what the law is. Barring a constitutional amendment, you're mostly out of options since the legislators and not even Trump can over-rule the United States Supreme Court - well, it hasn't been done since the high Court declared themselves to be the most powerful branch of government (around 1804 IIRC in Marbury v. Madison.)

Without knowing, specifically, what your objectives really are, I cannot offer up a solution. I asked once before if they gave all the undocumented foreigners citizenship. would that allay your fears? Between about 1987 and 2001 I know that those kinds of "amnesties" have taken place. There were more than half a dozen or so. Since nobody has challenged the constitutionality of those amnesties, I have to put that on the table. Everybody seems to be at peace with those who were given citizenship.

And, I keep coming back to the fact that, like it or not, we force people to become citizens as opposed to simply exercising their unalienable Rights and once they outnumber us, they vote in politicians that don't see things like you and MaryL. want them to be. And they are the majority now. The only reason Trump is in office is due to the electoral college, NOT the popular vote. So, today, try being honest with me and I will give you a no nonsense evaluation of what is open to you and why.
 

Porter Rockwell

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. and the lack of alternatives for the People.
Liberty- Period. Unless, of course you believe in inalienable rights over unalienable rights- which you have yet to answer when asked which leaves but one alternative for this people- you prefer to not be cornered by one who espouses Liberty as the ONLY way to live- they are an UNalienable rights, not inalienable.

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. The war is actually begun! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

Do you know where the above came from? As has been said, the past is prelude.

Having her community overrun by outsiders who do not respect her laws or culture or interests,


is not Liberty, it is just Weakness.


The weakness of a society that cannot protect itself.
When we have a system that encourages outsiders (sic) to get some human registration papers and participate in the process, you're simply being "legally" over-run and the only person you can blame is yourself. Whatever laws you contemplate leave you with making some drastic changes OR you are going to have to accept the direction the majority is taking us.

I don't know what I have to do in order to get you to answer three or four questions honestly, but without knowing what you're really complaining about, not even Jesus could help you in a prayer.




IF the public was kept informed and the politicians honest about their intent and their policies, and their planned actions, and still won elections, then you could say, that it is just the "direction the majority is taking us. "

But none of that is happening, so blaming the Political Class and media, is valid.
You apparently have the equation wrong. A Representative represents. The reason things aren't getting done is you throw out a bumper sticker at a politician and expect them to do God knows what. I don't know what you want any more than they do. And, if you looked at the real price tag of what you hear these dishonest dolts say, you wouldn't want to pay the price either. One brush with the LEO community over the so called "Patriot Act" taught me to fully investigate the downsides to all legislation.
 

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Having her community overrun by outsiders who do not respect her laws or culture or interests,


is not Liberty, it is just Weakness.


The weakness of a society that cannot protect itself.
I disagree- the Liberty to do business (and or associate) with whomever one pleases will expand Liberty which will afford a protection NO godvernment empty suit bureaucrat even wants to protect. Relying on another for direction means one has to follow (comply) in order to achieve protection.... and then that isn't a guarantee.

Letting outsiders invade and take over your territory, is not a protection. It will not help her at all. They are not coming to help, they are coming to advance and serve THEIR interests.

Saying "liberty" is not an argument.
Correll, When you politicize a discussion, you do yourself a great disservice. Let's look at that word invade. According to Blacks Law Dictionary an invasion is:

"An encroachment upon the rights of another; the incursion of an army for conquest or plunder."


What rights do you have that are being encroached upon by foreign workers? We've certainly not seen any army with their rifles, forcing employers to hire those from south of he border. What we see are Americans willingly doing business with foreigners. So, the onus is now on you to show us what rights you have that are being encroached upon.
 

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