Zone1 A masterful presentation of what the Book of Mormon actually is...

[Cougarbear]

Your interpretation is not doctrine. Scriptural inerrancy is not LDS Doctrine. Be guided by your QFP and the Q12.

The Bible says scripture is not for private interpretation. Therefore, my interpretation is justified.

 

[Cougarbear]

I have to admit that I did like the Book of Mormon but I could not believe that Prophet Joseph Smith is the final Elijah? It seemed to me that there is just too much yet to happen for Prophet Joseph Smith to have fulfilled all the predictions about what the final Elijah must accomplish.

The Book of Mormon does seem to have some pretty amazing insights on many topics though.

Here is a question for all Latter day Saints here, what do you think of the ancient Book of Adam and Eve?


......
Good question... I suspect that he would but I am not sure.

Another relevant question would be would Adam have a noticeable scar on his right side from an event spoken about in the rather ancient, Book of Adam and Eve?

.....

Zone1 Post in thread 'Did Adam Have Nipples?'

Jun 17, 2026

I know that this might seem like a strange question but think about it. All humans are inherently female at conception until later on in the pregnancy where that may or may not change. Which is why I do believe that men have nipples in the first place. Adam and Eve were never babies and they were never conceived or born they were created. It's for this reason that I know that they didn't have bellybuttons, but did that also mean that Adam didn't have nipples?


Lol this is probably more of a science question than a religious question, but I thought that people wouldn't like it if I...

• DennisPTate

It seems to me that much of the work of the final Elijah is yet to come?



I put some more ideas over here that Latter day Saint scholars may find very interesting?

Zone1 Post in thread 'Christadelphians?'

Jun 17, 2026

DennisPTate

Have you read this book?

Introduction | Judaism— Revelation of Moses Or Religion of Men?

Book: Judaism— Revelation of Moses Or Religion of Men?

www.cbcg.org

It gives a pretty detailed exegesis and history of the invention of 'Rabbinical Judaism' by the early 2nd Century. It is generally accurate re the Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox cults. Read it and let me know what you think.

I have got to do some more digging about that book.

Here is a question that I do believe that the Christadelphian scholars that I have met so far might be able to add some fascinating insights on?

.....

"Author...

• DennisPTate

• 

Since there is no book Adam and Eve, you'll have to decide on your own. By the way, Elijah came to the Prophet Joseph Smith in 1836 in the Kirkland Temple to restore the sealing powers of families. I would also give you the fact that Joseph was not the last Prophet of God. All Apostles called in these latter days are prophets, seers and revelators. With the senior Apostle who takes the Peter position as "The" Prophet of God whom the Lord will reveal His secrets to if necessary. But, it's pretty clear with all the restoration writings from the Lord through Joseph Smith that he is a main Prophet or Major Prophet like unto Moses, Isaiah and Elijah. Because of your Confirmation bias, you are missing out on all the Latter-day prophecies and works that will matter in the end.

 

[jacksonlamb]

The Bible says scripture is not for private interpretation. Therefore, my interpretation is justified.

Be guided by the FP and the Q12. Your belief is not inerrant.

 

[Cougarbear]

Be guided by the FP and the Q12. Your belief is not inerrant.

You simply have confirmation bias based on your inability to recognize it is the Democrat Party that approve of racism, bigotry, misogyny, and hate who approve of chaos, criminality, corruption, and approve of an authoritarian despotic tyranny lead by a communist or fascist king. All this can be proven. See, if Trump was what you say, you and every Democrat antagonist would be in jail. Just what Democrats were doing with January 6th trespassers, Trump himself, and many others well documented.

 

[jacksonlamb]

You are a King Man of these modern days, Cougarbear!

Characteristics of the King‑Men (Book of Mormon)​

1. Aristocratic Elites Seeking to Restore Monarchy​

King‑men were typically drawn from the wealthy, hereditary upper class.They believed they were “born better than their brethren” (Alma 51:8) and therefore entitled to rule.
Their core political goal:Abolish the Nephite system of judges and reinstate a king, with themselves in positions of power.

2. Opposed to the Voice of the People​

When the “voice of the people” voted to retain the judgeship, the king‑men refused to accept the outcome (Alma 51:7).They are portrayed as anti‑democratic, rejecting majority rule when it didn’t serve their interests.

3. Disloyal in Wartime​

One of their defining traits is refusal to defend the nation during the Amalickiahite war.

• They would not take up arms.
• They weakened the Nephite defense.
• Their refusal forced Captain Moroni to suppress them militarily (Alma 51:15–20).

This is one of the strongest condemnations Mormon levels at any internal faction.

4. Motivated by Pride, Class Superiority, and Power​

Mormon repeatedly ties the king‑men to:

• Pride
• Class distinction
• Desire for power and privilege
• Contempt for equality

Their ideology is framed as fundamentally incompatible with the covenant‑based, egalitarian ideal of the Nephite judgeship.

5. Willing to Ally with External Enemies​

Later, some king‑men actively sought to deliver the Nephites into Lamanite hands (Helaman 1:5–12).This marks them as a recurring internal threat, not a one‑time political faction.

6. A Counter‑Movement to the “Freemen”​

The Book of Mormon sets up a clear binary:

• Freemen → support the judges, equality, and defense of liberty
• King‑men → support aristocracy, monarchy, and class privilege

This ideological conflict becomes a major narrative engine in Alma 51–62.

In Summary​

A King‑Man in the Book of Mormon is defined by:

• Aristocratic elitism
• Desire to overthrow the judges and restore monarchy
• Rejection of majority rule
• Refusal to defend the nation in wartime
• Willingness to collaborate with enemies
• Pride and belief in inherent superiority

They are one of the clearest examples of internal political dissent in the Nephite record, and Mormon uses them as a cautionary tale about class privilege, anti‑democratic impulses, and the dangers of internal division during external conflict.

 

[Cougarbear]

You are a King Man of these modern days, Cougarbear!

Characteristics of the King‑Men (Book of Mormon)​

1. Aristocratic Elites Seeking to Restore Monarchy​

King‑men were typically drawn from the wealthy, hereditary upper class.They believed they were “born better than their brethren” (Alma 51:8) and therefore entitled to rule.
Their core political goal:Abolish the Nephite system of judges and reinstate a king, with themselves in positions of power.

2. Opposed to the Voice of the People​

When the “voice of the people” voted to retain the judgeship, the king‑men refused to accept the outcome (Alma 51:7).They are portrayed as anti‑democratic, rejecting majority rule when it didn’t serve their interests.

3. Disloyal in Wartime​

One of their defining traits is refusal to defend the nation during the Amalickiahite war.

• They would not take up arms.
• They weakened the Nephite defense.
• Their refusal forced Captain Moroni to suppress them militarily (Alma 51:15–20).

This is one of the strongest condemnations Mormon levels at any internal faction.

4. Motivated by Pride, Class Superiority, and Power​

Mormon repeatedly ties the king‑men to:

• Pride
• Class distinction
• Desire for power and privilege
• Contempt for equality

Their ideology is framed as fundamentally incompatible with the covenant‑based, egalitarian ideal of the Nephite judgeship.

5. Willing to Ally with External Enemies​

Later, some king‑men actively sought to deliver the Nephites into Lamanite hands (Helaman 1:5–12).This marks them as a recurring internal threat, not a one‑time political faction.

6. A Counter‑Movement to the “Freemen”​

The Book of Mormon sets up a clear binary:

• Freemen → support the judges, equality, and defense of liberty
• King‑men → support aristocracy, monarchy, and class privilege

This ideological conflict becomes a major narrative engine in Alma 51–62.

In Summary​

A King‑Man in the Book of Mormon is defined by:

• Aristocratic elitism
• Desire to overthrow the judges and restore monarchy
• Rejection of majority rule
• Refusal to defend the nation in wartime
• Willingness to collaborate with enemies
• Pride and belief in inherent superiority

They are one of the clearest examples of internal political dissent in the Nephite record, and Mormon uses them as a cautionary tale about class privilege, anti‑democratic impulses, and the dangers of internal division during external conflict.

#1 - Hillary called all Republicans "Deplorables." Democrats call all MAGA racists and all sorts of horrible names. And, the Democrats have plenty of billionaires and millionaires. So, #1 goes to the Democrat Party.
#2 - This is true as long as there is not cheating going on as the Democrats do every election. And, if they don't win and have the power of the House, they attempt to remove the Republican President by fake impeachment trials. Or, if a Presidential candidate cannot continue "His" campaign due to aging health challenges, instead of electing a fill-in candidate, the Democrats cheat and just elevate whoever they can. Which is un-democratic. Ballot stuffing is their means of cheating. #2 goes clearly to the Democrat Party.
#3 - Every time there is a Democrat President, he has stripped funding for the military and the weapons fall apart as did during the Carter Presidency when the helicopters couldn't take off from Iran and the Mullah's took over. Obama weakened the military and Biden nearly destroyed it. Biden let wokeism destroy the morale of the military having transvestites run much of the military. We were a disgrace to the world with men in the military with boobs. Look how the Democrat Party is attacking the Police, IC and the Military now since Obama and Biden. Definitely this goes to the Democrats.
#4 - The Democrats with their socialist and fascist leaders are all about class warfare and race warfare. Destroying the country within. Before Obama, the country was pretty peaceful. No cities burning and people getting along. Then, Obama. Immediately calls for reparations, free Obama phones for blacks, the middle east lights up in warfare with the Muslim Brotherhood and Obama causing countries to fight more and more. And, again, Democrats calling Republicans deplorables is all about their wrongful pride. Again, definitely a win for the Democrats. 4 for 4 so far.
#5 - Trump and the Republicans have brought many Muslim countries together with Israel. The Abraham Accords. We now also have Venezuela back on America's side working with us. The treaties have been to get countries to trade fairly with America and other countries as well. Democrats have opposed all of this. #5 goes to the Democrats again.
#6 - All Democrats are opposing free moral agency. The right of free speech. Look at what they did during the 2020 elections stopping even Trump from being heard on social media as well as the main stream media. Then, Christians and Jews have been under attack by immoral Democrat transvestites blowing up churches and shooting up Churches and Synagogues. Also shooting up elementary schools. And, shooting Charlie Kirk, 4 attempts now on President Trump and other conservative media. At the same time, attacking whites even if the Democrats are white. Race- shamming. There's a long list of abuses by the Democrats about being anti-liberty and anti-freedom. Voting in communists to high offices. Another to the Democrats.

You lose.

 

[jacksonlamb]

Cougarbear is a King Man, enemy of the LDS Church and the United States.

Scripture condemns you, LDS apostate.

 

[DennisPTate]

The Bible says scripture is not for private interpretation. Therefore, my interpretation is justified.

Cougarbear... it is my firm belief that Latter day Saints who live in Canada are in a special position to deal with the following question that has huge implications for all nations of the earth at this time?

.....

I plead guilty to having a bias on this question.....
I was taught the basics of "British Israel Movement" which is basically that some groups from the lost tribes of Israel migrated to the British Isles and from the British Isles groups from the Lost Tribes of Israel migrated to many other nations.

I cannot refute the theory that there are groups and families and individuals from the Lost Tribes of Israel everywhere where the British Empire influenced for a number of decades. But obviously the same can be said of the Spanish Empire. Spain even has a policy to grant citizenship to people with certain last names as a way to say that they are sorry for the Spanish Empire expelling the Jews of Spain.

My wife is from Quito, Ecuador and she could easily begin an application for her Spanish citizenship, [or even for her Israeli citizenship based on her mother's maiden name].

I personally am biased toward the northern ten tribes of Israel migrating to Ireland and then Scotland and then England and Wales in a very special way that fulfills many scriptures and predictions in the Book of Jeremiah.

It is my belief that anti-Semitism is deep in England and in the British Isles. Lord Balfour thought a lot like me and he wanted to see Israel given enough territory so that they could defend themselves but others in England wanted Jews to be given such a small territory that it would be impossible to defend because they wanted to see the completion of what had been began by Adolf Hitler?

Now in 2026 we can see that those anti-Semites in London who wanted to see the final solution taken to its conclusion should rethink that maybe they are fighting against something so huge and so powerful that maybe they should wave white flags and say that they surrender. In a way I have done that myself and I know that my own surrendering worked out really good for me.

I now support the idea that Christians and Muslims who actually believe in the Bible and in the Koran should support the construction of an Ezekiel chapter forty to forty eight temple complex as well as a replica of the Temple of King Solomon over the Gihon Spring that is several hundred meters away from the Al Aqsa Mosque and from the Dome of the Rock.

I believe that a literal Ezekiel chapter forty to forty eight temple complex will lead to the literal fulfillment of Ezekiel chapters forty seven which will be a win, win, win, win, win, win scenario for all Israelis, all Jordanians, all Palestinians, all Egyptians, as well as all residents of Lebanon and Syria.

I also believe that the Roman Catholic Bible book of Ecclesiasticus chapter forty eight is about to be fulfilled which will be astonishingly good news for all Palestinians, [because I do believe that the Tsvi Misinai theory is correct that the ancestors of the Palestinian people are significantly the four hundred thousand or so Messianic Jews, [followers of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus], from the time of the Bar Kochba Revolt.

Thread 'Was anti-Semitism at a high level in Canada in 1939 when the M. S. St. Louis was turned away?'

Jun 19, 2026

In my opinion the turning away of the M. S. St. Louis in 1939 was one of the worst acts done by
my nation Canada in our history.

It is my belief that anti-Semitism was very serious in London, England and in Ottawa, Canada at that time.
I am of the belief that rather extreme anti-Semites in London, England pushed for a territory for the "Jewish State" that would make it impossible to defend....... so that what Adolf Hitler had began could be completed.

Now in 2026 the anti-Semitism that is somewhat hidden in London, England as well as in Ottawa, Canada can be better seen for what it...

• DennisPTate
• Replies: 9
• Forum: Canada

• 

 

[The Irish Ram]

This is why I can't go along with any religion. My relationship with God doesn't depend on a book or a church or an invitation or anything. It exists all on its own

A relationship with Jesus Christ is what God says is necessary to sit at His table.

Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

1John 5:11-12 And this is that testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. / Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Acts 4:12 Salvation exists in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.

John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Get to know Him. He is the one that nailed our sins to His cross and gave us His perfect record to enter Heaven with...

 

[Eman623]

A relationship with Jesus Christ is what God says is necessary to sit at His table.

Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

1John 5:11-12 And this is that testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. / Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Acts 4:12 Salvation exists in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.

John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Get to know Him. He is the one that nailed our sins to His cross and gave us His perfect record to enter Heaven with...

I don't want to sit at the God of the Bible's table. His vision of Heaven is a little too totalitarian for my liking.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I don't want to sit at the God of the Bible's table. His vision of Heaven is a little too totalitarian for my liking.

And yet, the God in the book considers us His children and co-heirs with Christ.
Does your God consider himself God over all, or do you vote to keep him on your level? What about your parents? A little totalitarian were they? < Did you resent that too? If the Bible God is our Father, why would He be any more or less totalitarian than your earthly father?
The Bible God forgives us continually, and does not tolerate sin. Does your god tolerate sin so everyone can be equal in his eyes?
I am intrigued. Tell me about the attributes of your nondictatorial god. Does he demand anything from you? How do you know? Is it a feeling you get? Do others know your god or is he exclusive to your understanding?

 

[Eman623]

And yet, the God in the book considers us His children and co-heirs with Christ.
Does your God consider himself God over all, or do you vote to keep him on your level? What about your parents? A little totalitarian were they? < Did you resent that too? If the Bible God is our Father, why would He be any more or less totalitarian than your earthly father?
The Bible God forgives us continually, and does not tolerate sin. Does your god tolerate sin so everyone can be equal in his eyes?
I am intrigued. Tell me about the attributes of your nondictatorial god. Does he demand anything from you? How do you know? Is it a feeling you get? Do others know your god or is he exclusive to your understanding?

My God is only my God. Not anyone else's. He demands nothing from me. Not even that I believe in Him. If there was some Godly bargain, that if I believed in Him then good things would happen to me after death, then that wouldn't really be sincere.

What does He have in store for me after I die? No clue. So what? I don't know what He has in store for me tomorrow, or even 10 minutes from now. How dreary would life be if I did know everything in advance?

My parents gave me restrictions that gradually lessened as until I grew old enough to make my own choices. They accepted that I had free agency and learned to tolerate my mistakes because they were not totalitarians. The God of the Bible does not tolerate sin or anything less than absolute obedience. Sounds like North Korea or even Oceania from 1984, but infinitely worse and for eternity.

 

[Cougarbear]

Cougarbear... it is my firm belief that Latter day Saints who live in Canada are in a special position to deal with the following question that has huge implications for all nations of the earth at this time?

.....

I plead guilty to having a bias on this question.....
I was taught the basics of "British Israel Movement" which is basically that some groups from the lost tribes of Israel migrated to the British Isles and from the British Isles groups from the Lost Tribes of Israel migrated to many other nations.

I cannot refute the theory that there are groups and families and individuals from the Lost Tribes of Israel everywhere where the British Empire influenced for a number of decades. But obviously the same can be said of the Spanish Empire. Spain even has a policy to grant citizenship to people with certain last names as a way to say that they are sorry for the Spanish Empire expelling the Jews of Spain.

My wife is from Quito, Ecuador and she could easily begin an application for her Spanish citizenship, [or even for her Israeli citizenship based on her mother's maiden name].

I personally am biased toward the northern ten tribes of Israel migrating to Ireland and then Scotland and then England and Wales in a very special way that fulfills many scriptures and predictions in the Book of Jeremiah.

It is my belief that anti-Semitism is deep in England and in the British Isles. Lord Balfour thought a lot like me and he wanted to see Israel given enough territory so that they could defend themselves but others in England wanted Jews to be given such a small territory that it would be impossible to defend because they wanted to see the completion of what had been began by Adolf Hitler?

Now in 2026 we can see that those anti-Semites in London who wanted to see the final solution taken to its conclusion should rethink that maybe they are fighting against something so huge and so powerful that maybe they should wave white flags and say that they surrender. In a way I have done that myself and I know that my own surrendering worked out really good for me.

I now support the idea that Christians and Muslims who actually believe in the Bible and in the Koran should support the construction of an Ezekiel chapter forty to forty eight temple complex as well as a replica of the Temple of King Solomon over the Gihon Spring that is several hundred meters away from the Al Aqsa Mosque and from the Dome of the Rock.

I believe that a literal Ezekiel chapter forty to forty eight temple complex will lead to the literal fulfillment of Ezekiel chapters forty seven which will be a win, win, win, win, win, win scenario for all Israelis, all Jordanians, all Palestinians, all Egyptians, as well as all residents of Lebanon and Syria.

I also believe that the Roman Catholic Bible book of Ecclesiasticus chapter forty eight is about to be fulfilled which will be astonishingly good news for all Palestinians, [because I do believe that the Tsvi Misinai theory is correct that the ancestors of the Palestinian people are significantly the four hundred thousand or so Messianic Jews, [followers of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus], from the time of the Bar Kochba Revolt.

Thread 'Was anti-Semitism at a high level in Canada in 1939 when the M. S. St. Louis was turned away?'

Jun 19, 2026

In my opinion the turning away of the M. S. St. Louis in 1939 was one of the worst acts done by
my nation Canada in our history.

It is my belief that anti-Semitism was very serious in London, England and in Ottawa, Canada at that time.
I am of the belief that rather extreme anti-Semites in London, England pushed for a territory for the "Jewish State" that would make it impossible to defend....... so that what Adolf Hitler had began could be completed.

Now in 2026 the anti-Semitism that is somewhat hidden in London, England as well as in Ottawa, Canada can be better seen for what it...

• DennisPTate
• Replies: 9
• Forum: Canada

• 

You believe Muslims think the Koran is in support of Christianity? Mohammad was anti-Christian and taught Jesus was no more than a prophet. Not what Christians teach. The Koran, Islam, is the antithesis of the Biblical Jesus. In fact, it’s the anti-Christ.

The Assyrians didn’t carry the 10 tribes to Europe. They went to Turkey and then to Asia Minor and places.

 

[GLASNOST]

So it doesn't open with a doctrine, it opens with a "invitation" (command) to get to know Christ. And from there, the simple message evolved into a church and doctrine and plural marriage and then not plural marriage and tithing and secret underwear and temples and getting your very own planet when you die. The religion basically jumped the shark. This is why I can't go along with any religion. My relationship with God ... exists all on its own.
Oh, and there is 200 years of evidence that Smith made up the book of Mormon in his head. Reformed Egyptian is not a thing. His known mistranslation of Egyptian hieroglyphics and fictitious .... are all you need to understand the man was a fraud.

I've heard people try to explain the Book of Mormon and all its purposes for being. But, you put it as clearly and precise as I've every heard it in my 79 years on this earth. Either you know a lot more about about the Book of Mormon (and, even Joseph Smith) or maybe you just are not afraid to say it out loud.

 

[GLASNOST]

... The Koran, Islam, is the antithesis of the Biblical Jesus.

It is the praise of God, not Jesus.

In fact, it’s the anti-Christ.

By bypassing the Creator of Heaven and Earth, Christianity is the anti-God. Worshipping Jesus instead of God is a Cult.

 

[GLASNOST]

A relationship with Jesus Christ is what God says is necessary to sit at His table.

Where did you read that? On the back of a box of Cracker Jacks?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Where did you read that? On the back of a box of Cracker Jacks?

I got it from John:
John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me".

 

[GLASNOST]

A relationship with Jesus Christ is what God says is necessary to sit at His table.

Where did you read that? On the back of a box of Cracker Jacks?

I got it from John:
John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me".

You got it from who? From John? Who is John? You claim "God says it is necessary to sit at His table". I can't find anything written by Him. So .... John said that Jesus said that God said .......
If Cougarbear said that Clairebell said that Luisa said you're an idiot - should I believe her, him, or someone else?

 

[GLASNOST]

If it comes from the scriptures it's doctrine.

John says it's not true.

 

[ding]

By bypassing the Creator of Heaven and Earth, Christianity is the anti-God. Worshipping Jesus instead of God is a Cult.

Jesus said there would be people like you.