A closer look at the creation story

[EGR one]

Wrong. At the heart of the debate is whether spirit created the material world.

What a laughable pile of bullshit. At the heart of the debate is whether or not your particular, preferred magical fairy tale about creation is true. hint: it's not.

Anyone who doubts that an entity that can create time and space, does not also have the power to control both, is an intellectual dud. The same applies to anyone who cannot conceive that time may not be a constant.

You cannot prove that biblical creation is a fairy tale, but you throw it out as settled fact. Hint: Your lack of scientific imagination is not a positive asset.

 

[ding]

Wrong. At the heart of the debate is whether spirit created the material world.

What a laughable pile of bullshit. At the heart of the debate is whether or not your particular, preferred magical fairy tale about creation is true. hint: it's not.

You mean the allegorical account of creation that was passed down orally from generation to generation for thousands of years?

lol....

You need to read more carefully. Genesis is an allegorical account of the creation of heaven and earth, a world above and the world below, when law that instructs intelligent people to distinguish between clean and unclean, right and wrong, true and false, good and evil, life and death was spoken into existence as a light to the nations when the world was without shape or form and void and darkness covered the face of the unknown and human beings, your knuckle dragging superstitious barbarian ancestors, were indistinguishable from the wild beats of the field, cattle, demons, ghouls, swine dogs, vultures, teeming vermin who go down on all fours, worms, maggots, creepy things that creep... and the lowest of the low, the magnificent and illustrious talking serpents.

Ding presents an expert witness in support of his position that the big bang matches the account of creation in the Bible:

Similarly, Bar Ilan University’s Professor Nathan Aviezer, author of the book In the Beginning, told The Times of Israel, this discovery “isn’t going to make anyone who wasn’t a believer in God into one, or vice versa, but one thing the announcement does do is make it clear that the universe had a definite starting point — a creation — as described in the Book of Genesis,” said Aviezer. “To deny this now is to deny scientific fact.”

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly. If I had to make up a theory to match the first passages in Genesis, the Big Bang theory would be it,” said Aviezer.

“It’s an example of Divine irony that it took atheistic scientists like [Nobel laureate Paul] Dirac and all the others to point out the truth of the Torah. At this point I think we can say that creation is a scientific fact.”

Could New Scientific Discovery Support Creation?

Nathan Aviezer - Wikipedia

 

[ding]

It’s really interesting that you claim to believe in God but won’t say if you believe God created space and time. What is even more interesting though is that you won’t say you believe he didn’t create space and time.

You are really dense.

How could Genesis be an allegorical account passed down orally about an alleged event that happened 14 billion years ago?

Thats just about as stupid as stupid gets.

Genesis is an allegorical account of the creation of heaven and earth, a world above and the world below, about 6000 years ago when law that instructs intelligent people to distinguish between clean and unclean, right and wrong, true and false, good and evil, life and death was spoken into existence as a light to the nations when the world was without shape or form and void and darkness covered the face of the deep, the unknown, and human beings, your knuckle dragging superstitious barbarian ancestors, were indistinguishable from the wild beats of the field, cattle, demons, sheep, goats, ghouls, swine, dogs, vultures, teeming vermin who go down on all fours, worms, maggots, creepy things that creep... and the lowest of the low, the magnificent and illustrious talking serpent, in other words, whatever species of bastard that filled your mind with irrational superstitious archaic lore to the point of uselessness.

So, do you believe God created space and time?

This thread is about talking a closer look at the creation story. Try it.

If you want to discuss whether God created space and time, ask an astrophysicist...or someone who gives a shit about what you think about the beginning of space and time..

This thread is about creation.

You claim to believe in the existence of God.

It’s a fair question. What is it that you believe God created.

Ancient man believe he created everything and that man is a product of that creation.

So, do you believe God created everything? Space and time is everything. Science tells us that space and time had a beginning. So do you believe God is responsible for that beginning?

We don't know whether space and time existed before our universe. Doofus.

We know from science that space and time had a beginning. Specifically, red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations, quantum mechanics, the First Law of Thermodynamics, the Second Law of Thermodynamics and Inflation Theory.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation and Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations tells us that all matter and energy in the universe once occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of an atom and then began to expand and cool. The the First Law of Thermodynamics (i.e. conservation of energy) tells us that since that time matter and energy has only changed form. Which means that the atoms in our bodies were created from nothing when space and and time were created from nothing.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations and the Second Law of Thermodynamics tells us that space and time did have a beginning. If the universe is expanding then it must have a beginning. If you follow it backwards in time, then any object must come to a boundary of space time. You cannot continue that history indefinitely. This is still true even if a universe has periods of contraction. It still has to have a beginning if expansion over weights the contraction. Physicists have been uncomfortable with the idea of a beginning since the work of Friedman which showed that the solutions of Einstein's equation showed that the universe had a beginning. The problem with a cyclical universe is with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. For every matter to energy or energy to matter exchange there is a loss of usable energy. So while the total energy of the universe does not decrease, the usable energy of the universe does decrease. If it is a periodic or cyclical universe then the entropy will increase with each cycle. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a fundamental law of nature which tells us that entropy can only increase or stay the same. Entropy can never decrease. Which means that in a finite amount of time, a finite system will reach a maximum state of disorder which is called thermal equilibrium and then it will stay in that state. A cyclical universe cannot avoid this problem. Since we do not see thermal equilibrium (good thing too because there would be no life) we know that the universe did have a beginning.

Inflation Theory, the First Law of Thermodynamics and quantum mechanics tells us that it is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

Chapters 1 and 2 of Genesis is the allegorical account of creation and describes that the universe was created in steps or stage or phases. Scientific evidence tells us that the universe started out as subatomic particles and very quickly formed hydrogen and helium. This is called cosmic evolution. The hydrogen and helium formed stellar structures such as galaxies. This is called stellar evolution. The supernovas of stars created all of the elements and compounds that we see through fusion. This is called chemical evolution. All of these stages or phases had to occur before inanimate matter could make the leap to life. An event we still do not fully understand although the best understanding is that it can only occur in hot, wet conditions with an atmosphere rich in certain chemical compounds. Even with these condition being present we do not know how these chemical compounds could fold themselves in just the correct sequence to create life capable of replicating itself. The amount of information required for life to replicate is staggering. But however life made this leap we know it had to begin from a single celled organism and evolved into evermore increasing complex life forms up to the point that beings that know and create eventually arose.

Chapters 1 and 2 of Genesis tells us that space and time had a beginning, that it was created in steps and that life came from inanimate matter.

 

[Taz]

You are really dense.

How could Genesis be an allegorical account passed down orally about an alleged event that happened 14 billion years ago?

Thats just about as stupid as stupid gets.

Genesis is an allegorical account of the creation of heaven and earth, a world above and the world below, about 6000 years ago when law that instructs intelligent people to distinguish between clean and unclean, right and wrong, true and false, good and evil, life and death was spoken into existence as a light to the nations when the world was without shape or form and void and darkness covered the face of the deep, the unknown, and human beings, your knuckle dragging superstitious barbarian ancestors, were indistinguishable from the wild beats of the field, cattle, demons, sheep, goats, ghouls, swine, dogs, vultures, teeming vermin who go down on all fours, worms, maggots, creepy things that creep... and the lowest of the low, the magnificent and illustrious talking serpent, in other words, whatever species of bastard that filled your mind with irrational superstitious archaic lore to the point of uselessness.

So, do you believe God created space and time?

This thread is about talking a closer look at the creation story. Try it.

If you want to discuss whether God created space and time, ask an astrophysicist...or someone who gives a shit about what you think about the beginning of space and time..

This thread is about creation.

You claim to believe in the existence of God.

It’s a fair question. What is it that you believe God created.

Ancient man believe he created everything and that man is a product of that creation.

So, do you believe God created everything? Space and time is everything. Science tells us that space and time had a beginning. So do you believe God is responsible for that beginning?

We don't know whether space and time existed before our universe. Doofus.

We know from science that space and time had a beginning. Specifically, red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations, quantum mechanics, the First Law of Thermodynamics, the Second Law of Thermodynamics and Inflation Theory.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation and Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations tells us that all matter and energy in the universe once occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of an atom and then began to expand and cool. The the First Law of Thermodynamics (i.e. conservation of energy) tells us that since that time matter and energy has only changed form. Which means that the atoms in our bodies were created from nothing when space and and time were created from nothing.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations and the Second Law of Thermodynamics tells us that space and time did have a beginning. If the universe is expanding then it must have a beginning. If you follow it backwards in time, then any object must come to a boundary of space time. You cannot continue that history indefinitely. This is still true even if a universe has periods of contraction. It still has to have a beginning if expansion over weights the contraction. Physicists have been uncomfortable with the idea of a beginning since the work of Friedman which showed that the solutions of Einstein's equation showed that the universe had a beginning. The problem with a cyclical universe is with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. For every matter to energy or energy to matter exchange there is a loss of usable energy. So while the total energy of the universe does not decrease, the usable energy of the universe does decrease. If it is a periodic or cyclical universe then the entropy will increase with each cycle. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a fundamental law of nature which tells us that entropy can only increase or stay the same. Entropy can never decrease. Which means that in a finite amount of time, a finite system will reach a maximum state of disorder which is called thermal equilibrium and then it will stay in that state. A cyclical universe cannot avoid this problem. Since we do not see thermal equilibrium (good thing too because there would be no life) we know that the universe did have a beginning.

Inflation Theory, the First Law of Thermodynamics and quantum mechanics tells us that it is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

Chapters 1 and 2 of Genesis is the allegorical account of creation and describes that the universe was created in steps or stage or phases. Scientific evidence tells us that the universe started out as subatomic particles and very quickly formed hydrogen and helium. This is called cosmic evolution. The hydrogen and helium formed stellar structures such as galaxies. This is called stellar evolution. The supernovas of stars created all of the elements and compounds that we see through fusion. This is called chemical evolution. All of these stages or phases had to occur before inanimate matter could make the leap to life. An event we still do not fully understand although the best understanding is that it can only occur in hot, wet conditions with an atmosphere rich in certain chemical compounds. Even with these condition being present we do not know how these chemical compounds could fold themselves in just the correct sequence to create life capable of replicating itself. The amount of information required for life to replicate is staggering. But however life made this leap we know it had to begin from a single celled organism and evolved into evermore increasing complex life forms up to the point that beings that know and create eventually arose.

Chapters 1 and 2 of Genesis tells us that space and time had a beginning, that it was created in steps and that life came from inanimate matter.

We don't know what was before the BB, so don't know if time and space had already existed. Numbskull.

Genesis is fiction, so doesn't tell us anything.

 

[anynameyouwish]

Often when reading about the age of the earth, atheists tend to believe that the earth is millions of years old. Yet, many bible believing Christians believe that the creation of the earth occurred in 7 of our days that we experience on earth today. The purpose of this thread is to address the Christian view of a six day creation according to our current days. Let's turn to Genesis chapter 1:

Genesis 1:1-5
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

The above are the events of the first day of creation as told in the King James Version of the Bible. The first thing to note is that the earth itself was created in what God calls "the beginning". The earth at this time was without form and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep. This seems to indicate that the entire earth was covered with water and no land with shape and mountains was yet established. It says that God moved upon the face of the waters. Once the earth was in this initial state, only then was light introduced upon the earth and the beginning of counting days was reckoned.

After the initial creation of the earth, God said, "Let there be light" and there was light. God divided the light from the darkness and called the light day and the darkness night. The evening and the morning were the first day. What was the source of the light of the first day? According to the following verses it was not the sun.

Genesis 1:14-19
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Evidently God had not yet set the sun, moon, or stars in the heavens above the earth until the 4th day of creation. So from this we can know that it was not the light of the sun the first gave light upon the earth during the first 3 days of creation. It had to be a separate source of light. Perhaps also, God had not given the earth the same rotation that it has today. What evidence in the Bible do we have of days being longer than they are today?

2 Peter 3:8
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

If the days of the creation were after the Lord's time, then each day of the creation would have been one thousand of our years. This is why the duration of man's temporal existence upon this earth is 7000 years. The seventh thousand year being that of the millennial era of the earth. Perhaps it wasn't until the fall of Adam and Eve that God gave unto them their own reckoning of time in this temporal existence known as mortality.

"The purpose of this thread is to address the Christian view of a six day creation according to our current days."

Ok

I'll address it.

It's nonsense.

 

[ding]

So, do you believe God created space and time?

This thread is about talking a closer look at the creation story. Try it.

If you want to discuss whether God created space and time, ask an astrophysicist...or someone who gives a shit about what you think about the beginning of space and time..

This thread is about creation.

You claim to believe in the existence of God.

It’s a fair question. What is it that you believe God created.

Ancient man believe he created everything and that man is a product of that creation.

So, do you believe God created everything? Space and time is everything. Science tells us that space and time had a beginning. So do you believe God is responsible for that beginning?

We don't know whether space and time existed before our universe. Doofus.

We know from science that space and time had a beginning. Specifically, red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations, quantum mechanics, the First Law of Thermodynamics, the Second Law of Thermodynamics and Inflation Theory.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation and Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations tells us that all matter and energy in the universe once occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of an atom and then began to expand and cool. The the First Law of Thermodynamics (i.e. conservation of energy) tells us that since that time matter and energy has only changed form. Which means that the atoms in our bodies were created from nothing when space and and time were created from nothing.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations and the Second Law of Thermodynamics tells us that space and time did have a beginning. If the universe is expanding then it must have a beginning. If you follow it backwards in time, then any object must come to a boundary of space time. You cannot continue that history indefinitely. This is still true even if a universe has periods of contraction. It still has to have a beginning if expansion over weights the contraction. Physicists have been uncomfortable with the idea of a beginning since the work of Friedman which showed that the solutions of Einstein's equation showed that the universe had a beginning. The problem with a cyclical universe is with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. For every matter to energy or energy to matter exchange there is a loss of usable energy. So while the total energy of the universe does not decrease, the usable energy of the universe does decrease. If it is a periodic or cyclical universe then the entropy will increase with each cycle. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a fundamental law of nature which tells us that entropy can only increase or stay the same. Entropy can never decrease. Which means that in a finite amount of time, a finite system will reach a maximum state of disorder which is called thermal equilibrium and then it will stay in that state. A cyclical universe cannot avoid this problem. Since we do not see thermal equilibrium (good thing too because there would be no life) we know that the universe did have a beginning.

Inflation Theory, the First Law of Thermodynamics and quantum mechanics tells us that it is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

Chapters 1 and 2 of Genesis is the allegorical account of creation and describes that the universe was created in steps or stage or phases. Scientific evidence tells us that the universe started out as subatomic particles and very quickly formed hydrogen and helium. This is called cosmic evolution. The hydrogen and helium formed stellar structures such as galaxies. This is called stellar evolution. The supernovas of stars created all of the elements and compounds that we see through fusion. This is called chemical evolution. All of these stages or phases had to occur before inanimate matter could make the leap to life. An event we still do not fully understand although the best understanding is that it can only occur in hot, wet conditions with an atmosphere rich in certain chemical compounds. Even with these condition being present we do not know how these chemical compounds could fold themselves in just the correct sequence to create life capable of replicating itself. The amount of information required for life to replicate is staggering. But however life made this leap we know it had to begin from a single celled organism and evolved into evermore increasing complex life forms up to the point that beings that know and create eventually arose.

Chapters 1 and 2 of Genesis tells us that space and time had a beginning, that it was created in steps and that life came from inanimate matter.

We don't know what was before the BB, so don't know if time and space had already existed. Numbskull.

Genesis is fiction, so doesn't tell us anything.

The only way time and space can exist is if matter and energy exist. No matter, no energy, no time and space.

 

[ding]

So whatever created space and time cannot be anything that is material. It must be something which is wholly foreign to us. It can be no thing because things cannot last forever without reaching thermal equilibrium.

 

[Taz]

This thread is about talking a closer look at the creation story. Try it.

If you want to discuss whether God created space and time, ask an astrophysicist...or someone who gives a shit about what you think about the beginning of space and time..

This thread is about creation.

You claim to believe in the existence of God.

It’s a fair question. What is it that you believe God created.

Ancient man believe he created everything and that man is a product of that creation.

So, do you believe God created everything? Space and time is everything. Science tells us that space and time had a beginning. So do you believe God is responsible for that beginning?

We don't know whether space and time existed before our universe. Doofus.

We know from science that space and time had a beginning. Specifically, red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations, quantum mechanics, the First Law of Thermodynamics, the Second Law of Thermodynamics and Inflation Theory.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation and Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations tells us that all matter and energy in the universe once occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of an atom and then began to expand and cool. The the First Law of Thermodynamics (i.e. conservation of energy) tells us that since that time matter and energy has only changed form. Which means that the atoms in our bodies were created from nothing when space and and time were created from nothing.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations and the Second Law of Thermodynamics tells us that space and time did have a beginning. If the universe is expanding then it must have a beginning. If you follow it backwards in time, then any object must come to a boundary of space time. You cannot continue that history indefinitely. This is still true even if a universe has periods of contraction. It still has to have a beginning if expansion over weights the contraction. Physicists have been uncomfortable with the idea of a beginning since the work of Friedman which showed that the solutions of Einstein's equation showed that the universe had a beginning. The problem with a cyclical universe is with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. For every matter to energy or energy to matter exchange there is a loss of usable energy. So while the total energy of the universe does not decrease, the usable energy of the universe does decrease. If it is a periodic or cyclical universe then the entropy will increase with each cycle. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a fundamental law of nature which tells us that entropy can only increase or stay the same. Entropy can never decrease. Which means that in a finite amount of time, a finite system will reach a maximum state of disorder which is called thermal equilibrium and then it will stay in that state. A cyclical universe cannot avoid this problem. Since we do not see thermal equilibrium (good thing too because there would be no life) we know that the universe did have a beginning.

Inflation Theory, the First Law of Thermodynamics and quantum mechanics tells us that it is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

Chapters 1 and 2 of Genesis is the allegorical account of creation and describes that the universe was created in steps or stage or phases. Scientific evidence tells us that the universe started out as subatomic particles and very quickly formed hydrogen and helium. This is called cosmic evolution. The hydrogen and helium formed stellar structures such as galaxies. This is called stellar evolution. The supernovas of stars created all of the elements and compounds that we see through fusion. This is called chemical evolution. All of these stages or phases had to occur before inanimate matter could make the leap to life. An event we still do not fully understand although the best understanding is that it can only occur in hot, wet conditions with an atmosphere rich in certain chemical compounds. Even with these condition being present we do not know how these chemical compounds could fold themselves in just the correct sequence to create life capable of replicating itself. The amount of information required for life to replicate is staggering. But however life made this leap we know it had to begin from a single celled organism and evolved into evermore increasing complex life forms up to the point that beings that know and create eventually arose.

Chapters 1 and 2 of Genesis tells us that space and time had a beginning, that it was created in steps and that life came from inanimate matter.

We don't know what was before the BB, so don't know if time and space had already existed. Numbskull.

Genesis is fiction, so doesn't tell us anything.

The only way time and space can exist is if matter and energy exist. No matter, no energy, no time and space.

A universe may have existed before ours. We'll probably never be able to see back before our universe was created, so will never know.

 

[ding]

This thread is about creation.

You claim to believe in the existence of God.

It’s a fair question. What is it that you believe God created.

Ancient man believe he created everything and that man is a product of that creation.

So, do you believe God created everything? Space and time is everything. Science tells us that space and time had a beginning. So do you believe God is responsible for that beginning?

We don't know whether space and time existed before our universe. Doofus.

We know from science that space and time had a beginning. Specifically, red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations, quantum mechanics, the First Law of Thermodynamics, the Second Law of Thermodynamics and Inflation Theory.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation and Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations tells us that all matter and energy in the universe once occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of an atom and then began to expand and cool. The the First Law of Thermodynamics (i.e. conservation of energy) tells us that since that time matter and energy has only changed form. Which means that the atoms in our bodies were created from nothing when space and and time were created from nothing.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations and the Second Law of Thermodynamics tells us that space and time did have a beginning. If the universe is expanding then it must have a beginning. If you follow it backwards in time, then any object must come to a boundary of space time. You cannot continue that history indefinitely. This is still true even if a universe has periods of contraction. It still has to have a beginning if expansion over weights the contraction. Physicists have been uncomfortable with the idea of a beginning since the work of Friedman which showed that the solutions of Einstein's equation showed that the universe had a beginning. The problem with a cyclical universe is with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. For every matter to energy or energy to matter exchange there is a loss of usable energy. So while the total energy of the universe does not decrease, the usable energy of the universe does decrease. If it is a periodic or cyclical universe then the entropy will increase with each cycle. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a fundamental law of nature which tells us that entropy can only increase or stay the same. Entropy can never decrease. Which means that in a finite amount of time, a finite system will reach a maximum state of disorder which is called thermal equilibrium and then it will stay in that state. A cyclical universe cannot avoid this problem. Since we do not see thermal equilibrium (good thing too because there would be no life) we know that the universe did have a beginning.

Inflation Theory, the First Law of Thermodynamics and quantum mechanics tells us that it is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

Chapters 1 and 2 of Genesis is the allegorical account of creation and describes that the universe was created in steps or stage or phases. Scientific evidence tells us that the universe started out as subatomic particles and very quickly formed hydrogen and helium. This is called cosmic evolution. The hydrogen and helium formed stellar structures such as galaxies. This is called stellar evolution. The supernovas of stars created all of the elements and compounds that we see through fusion. This is called chemical evolution. All of these stages or phases had to occur before inanimate matter could make the leap to life. An event we still do not fully understand although the best understanding is that it can only occur in hot, wet conditions with an atmosphere rich in certain chemical compounds. Even with these condition being present we do not know how these chemical compounds could fold themselves in just the correct sequence to create life capable of replicating itself. The amount of information required for life to replicate is staggering. But however life made this leap we know it had to begin from a single celled organism and evolved into evermore increasing complex life forms up to the point that beings that know and create eventually arose.

Chapters 1 and 2 of Genesis tells us that space and time had a beginning, that it was created in steps and that life came from inanimate matter.

We don't know what was before the BB, so don't know if time and space had already existed. Numbskull.

Genesis is fiction, so doesn't tell us anything.

The only way time and space can exist is if matter and energy exist. No matter, no energy, no time and space.

A universe may have existed before ours. We'll probably never be able to see back before our universe was created, so will never know.

And would have been created in the exact same manner as ours. So I am not sure what you think that means.

 

[Taz]

We don't know whether space and time existed before our universe. Doofus.

We know from science that space and time had a beginning. Specifically, red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations, quantum mechanics, the First Law of Thermodynamics, the Second Law of Thermodynamics and Inflation Theory.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation and Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations tells us that all matter and energy in the universe once occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of an atom and then began to expand and cool. The the First Law of Thermodynamics (i.e. conservation of energy) tells us that since that time matter and energy has only changed form. Which means that the atoms in our bodies were created from nothing when space and and time were created from nothing.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations and the Second Law of Thermodynamics tells us that space and time did have a beginning. If the universe is expanding then it must have a beginning. If you follow it backwards in time, then any object must come to a boundary of space time. You cannot continue that history indefinitely. This is still true even if a universe has periods of contraction. It still has to have a beginning if expansion over weights the contraction. Physicists have been uncomfortable with the idea of a beginning since the work of Friedman which showed that the solutions of Einstein's equation showed that the universe had a beginning. The problem with a cyclical universe is with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. For every matter to energy or energy to matter exchange there is a loss of usable energy. So while the total energy of the universe does not decrease, the usable energy of the universe does decrease. If it is a periodic or cyclical universe then the entropy will increase with each cycle. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a fundamental law of nature which tells us that entropy can only increase or stay the same. Entropy can never decrease. Which means that in a finite amount of time, a finite system will reach a maximum state of disorder which is called thermal equilibrium and then it will stay in that state. A cyclical universe cannot avoid this problem. Since we do not see thermal equilibrium (good thing too because there would be no life) we know that the universe did have a beginning.

Inflation Theory, the First Law of Thermodynamics and quantum mechanics tells us that it is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

Chapters 1 and 2 of Genesis is the allegorical account of creation and describes that the universe was created in steps or stage or phases. Scientific evidence tells us that the universe started out as subatomic particles and very quickly formed hydrogen and helium. This is called cosmic evolution. The hydrogen and helium formed stellar structures such as galaxies. This is called stellar evolution. The supernovas of stars created all of the elements and compounds that we see through fusion. This is called chemical evolution. All of these stages or phases had to occur before inanimate matter could make the leap to life. An event we still do not fully understand although the best understanding is that it can only occur in hot, wet conditions with an atmosphere rich in certain chemical compounds. Even with these condition being present we do not know how these chemical compounds could fold themselves in just the correct sequence to create life capable of replicating itself. The amount of information required for life to replicate is staggering. But however life made this leap we know it had to begin from a single celled organism and evolved into evermore increasing complex life forms up to the point that beings that know and create eventually arose.

Chapters 1 and 2 of Genesis tells us that space and time had a beginning, that it was created in steps and that life came from inanimate matter.

We don't know what was before the BB, so don't know if time and space had already existed. Numbskull.

Genesis is fiction, so doesn't tell us anything.

The only way time and space can exist is if matter and energy exist. No matter, no energy, no time and space.

A universe may have existed before ours. We'll probably never be able to see back before our universe was created, so will never know.

And would have been created in the exact same manner as ours. So I am not sure what you think that means.

How do you know that it would be created in the exact same manner as ours? You don't, so don't be so stupid.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So you have no clue at all? Interesting.

I ignored your question. Pay attention!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You cannot prove that biblical creation is a fairy tale

Of course i can, as much as anything can be proven. Youre only way to slither out of that is to introduce "magic!!". At which point, causality ceasea to be a validco dept, as does evidence. So your magical nonsense is utterly worhless.

 

[hobelim]

Ding presents an expert witness in support of his position that the big bang matches the account of creation in the Bible:

Ding is speaking in the third person. Researchers have found that people create distance between themselves and whatever is causing negative emotions, like fear or anxiety, when they self-talk in the third person.

Whatever could be causing Ding distress?




Ding believes in a god that created the material universe so that he can experience the material world through "us", the possessed.

Ding believes in a carnal god who became a man that became a matzo that he eats.

Ding has lost control of his mind.

 

[ding]

We know from science that space and time had a beginning. Specifically, red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations, quantum mechanics, the First Law of Thermodynamics, the Second Law of Thermodynamics and Inflation Theory.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation and Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations tells us that all matter and energy in the universe once occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of an atom and then began to expand and cool. The the First Law of Thermodynamics (i.e. conservation of energy) tells us that since that time matter and energy has only changed form. Which means that the atoms in our bodies were created from nothing when space and and time were created from nothing.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations and the Second Law of Thermodynamics tells us that space and time did have a beginning. If the universe is expanding then it must have a beginning. If you follow it backwards in time, then any object must come to a boundary of space time. You cannot continue that history indefinitely. This is still true even if a universe has periods of contraction. It still has to have a beginning if expansion over weights the contraction. Physicists have been uncomfortable with the idea of a beginning since the work of Friedman which showed that the solutions of Einstein's equation showed that the universe had a beginning. The problem with a cyclical universe is with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. For every matter to energy or energy to matter exchange there is a loss of usable energy. So while the total energy of the universe does not decrease, the usable energy of the universe does decrease. If it is a periodic or cyclical universe then the entropy will increase with each cycle. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a fundamental law of nature which tells us that entropy can only increase or stay the same. Entropy can never decrease. Which means that in a finite amount of time, a finite system will reach a maximum state of disorder which is called thermal equilibrium and then it will stay in that state. A cyclical universe cannot avoid this problem. Since we do not see thermal equilibrium (good thing too because there would be no life) we know that the universe did have a beginning.

Inflation Theory, the First Law of Thermodynamics and quantum mechanics tells us that it is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

Chapters 1 and 2 of Genesis is the allegorical account of creation and describes that the universe was created in steps or stage or phases. Scientific evidence tells us that the universe started out as subatomic particles and very quickly formed hydrogen and helium. This is called cosmic evolution. The hydrogen and helium formed stellar structures such as galaxies. This is called stellar evolution. The supernovas of stars created all of the elements and compounds that we see through fusion. This is called chemical evolution. All of these stages or phases had to occur before inanimate matter could make the leap to life. An event we still do not fully understand although the best understanding is that it can only occur in hot, wet conditions with an atmosphere rich in certain chemical compounds. Even with these condition being present we do not know how these chemical compounds could fold themselves in just the correct sequence to create life capable of replicating itself. The amount of information required for life to replicate is staggering. But however life made this leap we know it had to begin from a single celled organism and evolved into evermore increasing complex life forms up to the point that beings that know and create eventually arose.

Chapters 1 and 2 of Genesis tells us that space and time had a beginning, that it was created in steps and that life came from inanimate matter.

We don't know what was before the BB, so don't know if time and space had already existed. Numbskull.

Genesis is fiction, so doesn't tell us anything.

The only way time and space can exist is if matter and energy exist. No matter, no energy, no time and space.

A universe may have existed before ours. We'll probably never be able to see back before our universe was created, so will never know.

And would have been created in the exact same manner as ours. So I am not sure what you think that means.

How do you know that it would be created in the exact same manner as ours? You don't, so don't be so stupid.

Why wouldn’t it?

 

[ding]

Ding presents an expert witness in support of his position that the big bang matches the account of creation in the Bible:

Ding is speaking in the third person. Researchers have found that people create distance between themselves and whatever is causing negative emotions, like fear or anxiety, when they self-talk in the third person.

Whatever could be causing Ding distress?




Ding believes in a god that created the material universe so that he can experience the material world through "us", the possessed.

Ding believes in a carnal god who became a man that became a matzo that he eats.

Ding has lost control of his mind.

And yet the Big Bang matches the account in Genesis.

 

[ding]

So you have no clue at all? Interesting.

I ignored your question. Pay attention!

That’s why I won.

 

[hobelim]

Ding presents an expert witness in support of his position that the big bang matches the account of creation in the Bible:

Ding is speaking in the third person. Researchers have found that people create distance between themselves and whatever is causing negative emotions, like fear or anxiety, when they self-talk in the third person.

Whatever could be causing Ding distress?




Ding believes in a god that created the material universe so that he can experience the material world through "us", the possessed.

Ding believes in a carnal god who became a man that became a matzo that he eats.

Ding has lost control of his mind.

And yet the Big Bang matches the account in Genesis.

No it doesn't. The earth was in existence before light according to Genesis.

You are a dunce. Either that or you are an actor and lying fraud. Just not a very good one.

 

[ding]

Ding presents an expert witness in support of his position that the big bang matches the account of creation in the Bible:

Ding is speaking in the third person. Researchers have found that people create distance between themselves and whatever is causing negative emotions, like fear or anxiety, when they self-talk in the third person.

Whatever could be causing Ding distress?




Ding believes in a god that created the material universe so that he can experience the material world through "us", the possessed.

Ding believes in a carnal god who became a man that became a matzo that he eats.

Ding has lost control of his mind.

And yet the Big Bang matches the account in Genesis.

No it doesn't. The earth was in existence before light according to Genesis.

You are a dunce. Either that or you are an actor and lying fraud. Just not a very good one.

It’s an allegorical account. They believe God created everything. Do you?

 

[ding]

Still winning.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So you have no clue at all? Interesting.

I ignored your question. Pay attention!

That’s why I won.

You didn't win anything but your daily episode of self fellation. In fact, you seem completely unable even to state your argument.

This is because you dont actually have any argument. You are a fraud.