A Child Can't Call 2 Women or 2 Men "Mom & Dad"

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

I hope everyone makes it but I'm smart enough to know some will make choices in life that means they won't. I'm comforted in knowing sinners won't be in heaven.

You can't fathom my high level of intelligence. If you even finished high school, the best you could do is a 2 year of State college. They let anyone in.

I shouldn't get involved in this silly sidetrack, but I can't help it.

It was my understand that according to Christianity, we are all sinners. Wouldn't that mean that everyone in heaven, minus Christ himself, is a sinner? I thought the point was to accept Christ as your savior and do your best to live sin free, but that we all will fail to do so; sinning is inherent in the human condition.

Sure we are. Some do their best to turn away and others think continuing to sin despite what Christ said about "go and sin no more" don't. They try to convince people being a "good person" or that because Christ said he loved all people, it means they can continue to sin and it will be OK.

When you say 'I'm comforted in knowing sinners won't be in heaven', then, what do you mean? Clearly, if everyone is a sinner, then there will be sinners in heaven. Unless you don't think anyone goes to heaven, that is.

Heaven is full of saints, not sinners. Saints repent of their sin, receive forgiveness, and mend their ways. Those who do not repent and forsake their sin are forever separated from the love of God.

Does that mean that you consider yourself a saint, or that you believe you will be a saint before you die, or that you will become a saint after you die but before judgement, or that you don't expect to go to heaven?

Again, one of the most common concepts I've heard from Christianity is that all people, every last one other than Christ himself, is a sinner. No amount of repentance changes this intrinsic part of humanity. We are to strive to be as close to perfect as we can but will never achieve it in this life.

Based on this, while I understand that those who do not repent may not get into heaven, those who do get into heaven will still have been sinners while on Earth.

Saying heaven is full of saints makes me wonder if you believe there are a lot of humans on Earth who are free from sin.

You haven't talked to many Christians then. Protestants believe in imputed righteousness, that is, a believer is positionally holy before God, sharing in the impeccable nature of Christ. We Catholics believe in progressive sanctification, that we pursue holiness in this life and that process is brought to completion in Purgatory, where all imperfections are removed in preparation for heaven. No Christian believes that we continue to be practicing sinners after conversion. The Bible says in several ways that we are to crucify the flesh and walk in the newness of our Christian confession; that we are new creations in Christ.

 

[Conservative65]

Sure we are. Some do their best to turn away and others think continuing to sin despite what Christ said about "go and sin no more" don't. They try to convince people being a "good person" or that because Christ said he loved all people, it means they can continue to sin and it will be OK.

When you say 'I'm comforted in knowing sinners won't be in heaven', then, what do you mean? Clearly, if everyone is a sinner, then there will be sinners in heaven. Unless you don't think anyone goes to heaven, that is.

Since heaven is a perfect place and sinning is a sign of imperfection, why would I want imperfect sin in a perfect place? The comfort comes from knowing that while I have to deal and be around their sin on Earth, I won't in heaven. It doesn't mean I want people to do to hell but that I won't have to be around sin in heaven.

Again, isn't sin intrinsic to humanity? Do you believe that there are many people who live their lives free of sin?

No one lives their life free from sin. That's why Jesus did what He did. Some make an honest effort to do so and others live thinking that if they are "good" people using their definition of good, they won't end up in hell despite God saying their choices will produce that result. It's not God's wish that any perish. God doesn't send people to hell. People's choices produce that result then they want to blame God for it.

There was a bumper sticker I saw several years ago that said "If you live like there's no hell, you better be right".

Would it be fair to say that your statement would be more accurate if it said, "I'm comforted in knowing unrepentant sinners won't be in heaven."?

That's what I meant to start with. Several who simply hate religion because it's religion tried to make it appear as something it wasn't. At least you get it. Some of them never will. They're the same ones that think saying you don't like what someone does is the same as saying you don't like someone. They can't make the distinction. However, they will tell you that while they may not like what their kids do sometimes, they still love their kids. That shows an ability to make a distinction but let it deal with homosexuality or situation like this question and the concept of separating the two is beyond their grasp.

 

[Montrovant]

I shouldn't get involved in this silly sidetrack, but I can't help it.

It was my understand that according to Christianity, we are all sinners. Wouldn't that mean that everyone in heaven, minus Christ himself, is a sinner? I thought the point was to accept Christ as your savior and do your best to live sin free, but that we all will fail to do so; sinning is inherent in the human condition.

Sure we are. Some do their best to turn away and others think continuing to sin despite what Christ said about "go and sin no more" don't. They try to convince people being a "good person" or that because Christ said he loved all people, it means they can continue to sin and it will be OK.

When you say 'I'm comforted in knowing sinners won't be in heaven', then, what do you mean? Clearly, if everyone is a sinner, then there will be sinners in heaven. Unless you don't think anyone goes to heaven, that is.

Heaven is full of saints, not sinners. Saints repent of their sin, receive forgiveness, and mend their ways. Those who do not repent and forsake their sin are forever separated from the love of God.

Does that mean that you consider yourself a saint, or that you believe you will be a saint before you die, or that you will become a saint after you die but before judgement, or that you don't expect to go to heaven?

Again, one of the most common concepts I've heard from Christianity is that all people, every last one other than Christ himself, is a sinner. No amount of repentance changes this intrinsic part of humanity. We are to strive to be as close to perfect as we can but will never achieve it in this life.

Based on this, while I understand that those who do not repent may not get into heaven, those who do get into heaven will still have been sinners while on Earth.

Saying heaven is full of saints makes me wonder if you believe there are a lot of humans on Earth who are free from sin.

Never said I was a saint. What I will say is that I don't look at God's word then say He really didn't mean that.

Never said I didn't sin. Difference between me and those who try to alter God's word to make it out as if He meant something other than what He said is that I, although I fail due to being human, make an effort to live by God's word. Those that want to alter it to suit their personal choice don't. They live by the mindset that if they're a "good" person God wouldn't punish them eternally despite His word saying otherwise. That's the difference you get based on your last statement of "Based on this, while I understand that those who do not repent may not get into heaven, those who do get into heaven will still have been sinners while on Earth" with one change. It's not a a may not get into heaven without repentance, it's a won't get in. God's word is clear just like God's word is clear about all falling short of His glory. There are those who fall short, because they are human, yet repent and try to live a way God would have them live and those who live like there's no hell.

This was directed at saintmichaeldefendthem, not you, sorry.

I would like to say that I don't think god's word is all that clear. If it were, there would not be so many religions in the world nor different sects within those religions. For that matter, the various translations of holy books almost guarantee clarity issues as different languages do not always translate directly.

We are taking this thread far from its origins, however, so please don't feel any sort of obligation to reply.

 

[Conservative65]

Democrats desire to teach Homosexuality to children and nobody will stop them, not even the law.

Conservatives desire to teach hatred of homosexuals to children- and luckily we have been largely successful at stopping them.

As a Conservative I teach my children that HOMOSEXUALITY is wrong. YOU twist it to call it hate of the person.

If your children did something wrong, did you hate them or did you just dislike what they did?

 

[Montrovant]

I shouldn't get involved in this silly sidetrack, but I can't help it.

It was my understand that according to Christianity, we are all sinners. Wouldn't that mean that everyone in heaven, minus Christ himself, is a sinner? I thought the point was to accept Christ as your savior and do your best to live sin free, but that we all will fail to do so; sinning is inherent in the human condition.

Sure we are. Some do their best to turn away and others think continuing to sin despite what Christ said about "go and sin no more" don't. They try to convince people being a "good person" or that because Christ said he loved all people, it means they can continue to sin and it will be OK.

When you say 'I'm comforted in knowing sinners won't be in heaven', then, what do you mean? Clearly, if everyone is a sinner, then there will be sinners in heaven. Unless you don't think anyone goes to heaven, that is.

Heaven is full of saints, not sinners. Saints repent of their sin, receive forgiveness, and mend their ways. Those who do not repent and forsake their sin are forever separated from the love of God.

Does that mean that you consider yourself a saint, or that you believe you will be a saint before you die, or that you will become a saint after you die but before judgement, or that you don't expect to go to heaven?

Again, one of the most common concepts I've heard from Christianity is that all people, every last one other than Christ himself, is a sinner. No amount of repentance changes this intrinsic part of humanity. We are to strive to be as close to perfect as we can but will never achieve it in this life.

Based on this, while I understand that those who do not repent may not get into heaven, those who do get into heaven will still have been sinners while on Earth.

Saying heaven is full of saints makes me wonder if you believe there are a lot of humans on Earth who are free from sin.

You haven't talked to many Christians then. Protestants believe in imputed righteousness, that is, a believer is positionally holy before God, sharing in the impeccable nature of Christ. We Catholics believe in progressive sanctification, that we pursue holiness in this life and that process is brought to completion in Purgatory, where all imperfections are removed in preparation for heaven. No Christian believes that we continue to be practicing sinners after conversion. The Bible says in several ways that we are to crucify the flesh and walk in the newness of our Christian confession; that we are new creations in Christ.

I have listened to many Christians discuss their beliefs and I think you are the first to say or imply that people might live free from sin. If you are saying that people are freed from sin in the afterlife, that is entirely different.

 

[Conservative65]

Sure we are. Some do their best to turn away and others think continuing to sin despite what Christ said about "go and sin no more" don't. They try to convince people being a "good person" or that because Christ said he loved all people, it means they can continue to sin and it will be OK.

When you say 'I'm comforted in knowing sinners won't be in heaven', then, what do you mean? Clearly, if everyone is a sinner, then there will be sinners in heaven. Unless you don't think anyone goes to heaven, that is.

Heaven is full of saints, not sinners. Saints repent of their sin, receive forgiveness, and mend their ways. Those who do not repent and forsake their sin are forever separated from the love of God.

Does that mean that you consider yourself a saint, or that you believe you will be a saint before you die, or that you will become a saint after you die but before judgement, or that you don't expect to go to heaven?

Again, one of the most common concepts I've heard from Christianity is that all people, every last one other than Christ himself, is a sinner. No amount of repentance changes this intrinsic part of humanity. We are to strive to be as close to perfect as we can but will never achieve it in this life.

Based on this, while I understand that those who do not repent may not get into heaven, those who do get into heaven will still have been sinners while on Earth.

Saying heaven is full of saints makes me wonder if you believe there are a lot of humans on Earth who are free from sin.

Never said I was a saint. What I will say is that I don't look at God's word then say He really didn't mean that.

Never said I didn't sin. Difference between me and those who try to alter God's word to make it out as if He meant something other than what He said is that I, although I fail due to being human, make an effort to live by God's word. Those that want to alter it to suit their personal choice don't. They live by the mindset that if they're a "good" person God wouldn't punish them eternally despite His word saying otherwise. That's the difference you get based on your last statement of "Based on this, while I understand that those who do not repent may not get into heaven, those who do get into heaven will still have been sinners while on Earth" with one change. It's not a a may not get into heaven without repentance, it's a won't get in. God's word is clear just like God's word is clear about all falling short of His glory. There are those who fall short, because they are human, yet repent and try to live a way God would have them live and those who live like there's no hell.

This was directed at saintmichaeldefendthem, not you, sorry.

I would like to say that I don't think god's word is all that clear. If it were, there would not be so many religions in the world nor different sects within those religions. For that matter, the various translations of holy books almost guarantee clarity issues as different languages do not always translate directly.

We are taking this thread far from its origins, however, so please don't feel any sort of obligation to reply.

God's word is clear. The reason there are so many different denomination within Christianity is because of the people focusing on specifics that don't really matter rather than the clear message of God's word. For example, some denominations believe in speaking in tongues. I don't. Does it really matter as nothing God said comes close to mentioning that if you do, you're saved and if you don't, you're not. It's not a lack of clarity by God but a clouding of it by humans. I had a former minister and longtime friend tell me that Christians fight amongst themselves over issues that don't really matter nor have anything to do with salvation while forgetting that we all have one thing in common and that's God's word through his Son's death. It's like missing the forest because of the trees.

 

[Conservative65]

Sure we are. Some do their best to turn away and others think continuing to sin despite what Christ said about "go and sin no more" don't. They try to convince people being a "good person" or that because Christ said he loved all people, it means they can continue to sin and it will be OK.

When you say 'I'm comforted in knowing sinners won't be in heaven', then, what do you mean? Clearly, if everyone is a sinner, then there will be sinners in heaven. Unless you don't think anyone goes to heaven, that is.

Heaven is full of saints, not sinners. Saints repent of their sin, receive forgiveness, and mend their ways. Those who do not repent and forsake their sin are forever separated from the love of God.

Does that mean that you consider yourself a saint, or that you believe you will be a saint before you die, or that you will become a saint after you die but before judgement, or that you don't expect to go to heaven?

Again, one of the most common concepts I've heard from Christianity is that all people, every last one other than Christ himself, is a sinner. No amount of repentance changes this intrinsic part of humanity. We are to strive to be as close to perfect as we can but will never achieve it in this life.

Based on this, while I understand that those who do not repent may not get into heaven, those who do get into heaven will still have been sinners while on Earth.

Saying heaven is full of saints makes me wonder if you believe there are a lot of humans on Earth who are free from sin.

You haven't talked to many Christians then. Protestants believe in imputed righteousness, that is, a believer is positionally holy before God, sharing in the impeccable nature of Christ. We Catholics believe in progressive sanctification, that we pursue holiness in this life and that process is brought to completion in Purgatory, where all imperfections are removed in preparation for heaven. No Christian believes that we continue to be practicing sinners after conversion. The Bible says in several ways that we are to crucify the flesh and walk in the newness of our Christian confession; that we are new creations in Christ.

I have listened to many Christians discuss their beliefs and I think you are the first to say or imply that people might live free from sin. If you are saying that people are freed from sin in the afterlife, that is entirely different.

ANY Christian that tells you that people live free from sin goes directly against God's word. If there is an implication, perhaps that could be on your part.

 

[Montrovant]

Democrats desire to teach Homosexuality to children and nobody will stop them, not even the law.

Conservatives desire to teach hatred of homosexuals to children- and luckily we have been largely successful at stopping them.

As a Conservative I teach my children that HOMOSEXUALITY is wrong. YOU twist it to call it hate of the person.

If your children did something wrong, did you hate them or did you just dislike what they did?

I completely understand the difference between hating a person and hating something about them or something they do. However, when you throw around epithets like ****** as you have in this thread, it strongly suggests more than simply 'hating the sin'.

 

[Conservative65]

Democrats desire to teach Homosexuality to children and nobody will stop them, not even the law.

Conservatives desire to teach hatred of homosexuals to children- and luckily we have been largely successful at stopping them.

As a Conservative I teach my children that HOMOSEXUALITY is wrong. YOU twist it to call it hate of the person.

If your children did something wrong, did you hate them or did you just dislike what they did?

I completely understand the difference between hating a person and hating something about them or something they do. However, when you throw around epithets like ****** as you have in this thread, it strongly suggests more than simply 'hating the sin'.

Don't confuse politically incorrect terms with hate. That would be a good example of you implying something incorrectly. I'm not politically correct in person and damn sure won't change for this site.

 

[elektra]

Democrats desire to teach Homosexuality to children and nobody will stop them, not even the law.

Conservatives desire to teach hatred of homosexuals to children- and luckily we have been largely successful at stopping them.

Liar, why must democrats lie and stereotype, just like the bigots who killed jews and african americans.

 

[Skylar]

Oops, sounds like a religious debate to me.

This thread is about the SECULAR PROBLEM of psychologically-depriving boys of fathers and girls of mothers...

Discuss.

Okay- what do you propose to do to prevent the millions of children in America from being raised by a single parent?

Well to take your model, we should allow single parents, polygamists and incest duos/groups to redact the word "marriage" so that every child has married parent(s). Right? Or do you hate some children?

So describe a single marriage. How would it differ from the rights and privileges that the individual already possesses?

 

[Skylar]

Democrats desire to teach Homosexuality to children and nobody will stop them, not even the law.

Conservatives desire to teach hatred of homosexuals to children- and luckily we have been largely successful at stopping them.

Liar, why must democrats lie and stereotype, just like the bigots who killed jews and african americans.

I'm gonna let the irony of that post just hang in the air like the scent of a burrito fart.

 

[elektra]

Democrats desire to teach Homosexuality to children and nobody will stop them, not even the law.

What do you mean 'teach homosexuality'? You mean inform children of an appropriate age that homosexuality *exists*?

If you do not understand what I "mean" you are part of the problem.

 

[Skylar]

Democrats desire to teach Homosexuality to children and nobody will stop them, not even the law.

Conservatives desire to teach hatred of homosexuals to children- and luckily we have been largely successful at stopping them.

As a Conservative I teach my children that HOMOSEXUALITY is wrong. YOU twist it to call it hate of the person.

If your children did something wrong, did you hate them or did you just dislike what they did?

I completely understand the difference between hating a person and hating something about them or something they do. However, when you throw around epithets like ****** as you have in this thread, it strongly suggests more than simply 'hating the sin'.

I think Conservative is a fine representative of the conservative religious view point on the matter.

Tell us more about the 'faggots' and 'n*ggers' and Jesus.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Sure we are. Some do their best to turn away and others think continuing to sin despite what Christ said about "go and sin no more" don't. They try to convince people being a "good person" or that because Christ said he loved all people, it means they can continue to sin and it will be OK.

When you say 'I'm comforted in knowing sinners won't be in heaven', then, what do you mean? Clearly, if everyone is a sinner, then there will be sinners in heaven. Unless you don't think anyone goes to heaven, that is.

Heaven is full of saints, not sinners. Saints repent of their sin, receive forgiveness, and mend their ways. Those who do not repent and forsake their sin are forever separated from the love of God.

Does that mean that you consider yourself a saint, or that you believe you will be a saint before you die, or that you will become a saint after you die but before judgement, or that you don't expect to go to heaven?

Again, one of the most common concepts I've heard from Christianity is that all people, every last one other than Christ himself, is a sinner. No amount of repentance changes this intrinsic part of humanity. We are to strive to be as close to perfect as we can but will never achieve it in this life.

Based on this, while I understand that those who do not repent may not get into heaven, those who do get into heaven will still have been sinners while on Earth.

Saying heaven is full of saints makes me wonder if you believe there are a lot of humans on Earth who are free from sin.

You haven't talked to many Christians then. Protestants believe in imputed righteousness, that is, a believer is positionally holy before God, sharing in the impeccable nature of Christ. We Catholics believe in progressive sanctification, that we pursue holiness in this life and that process is brought to completion in Purgatory, where all imperfections are removed in preparation for heaven. No Christian believes that we continue to be practicing sinners after conversion. The Bible says in several ways that we are to crucify the flesh and walk in the newness of our Christian confession; that we are new creations in Christ.

I have listened to many Christians discuss their beliefs and I think you are the first to say or imply that people might live free from sin. If you are saying that people are freed from sin in the afterlife, that is entirely different.

That's not what I said at all. I gave a very clear explanation which you ignored both from the prevailing Protestant view and from the Catholic view, neither of which said that people live free from sin. So you prove that you don't actually listen.

Moreover, your argument that anyone who is perfect in heaven must also be perfect on earth is more than myopic. Christians are translated, made perfect for heaven. What we do here is practice for eternal life, for we are called to abandon the ways of the flesh and pursue the holiness of God and to live holy lives as best we can. Nothing in that implies that we can continue in reprobate practices. Here's what St. James says:

"Submit yourselves then to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail! Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord and he will lift you up."

(4:7-10)

That's the calling of every Christian, to repent, to abandon wicked ways, and to purge ourselves of the filth of sin. In no way can that be mistaken for a belief in living as sinners

 

[Skylar]

Democrats desire to teach Homosexuality to children and nobody will stop them, not even the law.

What do you mean 'teach homosexuality'? You mean inform children of an appropriate age that homosexuality *exists*?

If you do not understand what I "mean" you are part of the problem.

From your inability to answer the question, it seems you don't understand what you 'mean' either.

So we share bafflement at the steaming rhetorical pile that was your post.

 

[Conservative65]

When you say 'I'm comforted in knowing sinners won't be in heaven', then, what do you mean? Clearly, if everyone is a sinner, then there will be sinners in heaven. Unless you don't think anyone goes to heaven, that is.

Heaven is full of saints, not sinners. Saints repent of their sin, receive forgiveness, and mend their ways. Those who do not repent and forsake their sin are forever separated from the love of God.

Does that mean that you consider yourself a saint, or that you believe you will be a saint before you die, or that you will become a saint after you die but before judgement, or that you don't expect to go to heaven?

Again, one of the most common concepts I've heard from Christianity is that all people, every last one other than Christ himself, is a sinner. No amount of repentance changes this intrinsic part of humanity. We are to strive to be as close to perfect as we can but will never achieve it in this life.

Based on this, while I understand that those who do not repent may not get into heaven, those who do get into heaven will still have been sinners while on Earth.

Saying heaven is full of saints makes me wonder if you believe there are a lot of humans on Earth who are free from sin.

You haven't talked to many Christians then. Protestants believe in imputed righteousness, that is, a believer is positionally holy before God, sharing in the impeccable nature of Christ. We Catholics believe in progressive sanctification, that we pursue holiness in this life and that process is brought to completion in Purgatory, where all imperfections are removed in preparation for heaven. No Christian believes that we continue to be practicing sinners after conversion. The Bible says in several ways that we are to crucify the flesh and walk in the newness of our Christian confession; that we are new creations in Christ.

I have listened to many Christians discuss their beliefs and I think you are the first to say or imply that people might live free from sin. If you are saying that people are freed from sin in the afterlife, that is entirely different.

That's not what I said at all. I gave a very clear explanation which you ignored both from the prevailing Protestant view and from the Catholic view, neither of which said that people live free from sin. So you prove that you don't actually listen.

Moreover, your argument that anyone who is perfect in heaven must also be perfect on earth is more than myopic. Christians are translated, made perfect for heaven. What we do here is practice for eternal life, for we are called to abandon the ways of the flesh and pursue the holiness of God and to live holy lives as best we can. Nothing in that implies that we can continue in reprobate practices. Here's what St. James says:

"Submit yourselves then to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail! Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord and he will lift you up."

(4:7-10)

That's the calling of every Christian, to repent, to abandon wicked ways, and to purge ourselves of the filth of sin. In no way can that be mistaken for a belief in living as sinners

The way Montrovant makes Christianity out to be is why people oppose it. Someone that doesn't have a clue convince enough people they do and those other idiots listen because it's what they want to hear.

 

[Conservative65]

Democrats desire to teach Homosexuality to children and nobody will stop them, not even the law.

Conservatives desire to teach hatred of homosexuals to children- and luckily we have been largely successful at stopping them.

As a Conservative I teach my children that HOMOSEXUALITY is wrong. YOU twist it to call it hate of the person.

If your children did something wrong, did you hate them or did you just dislike what they did?

I completely understand the difference between hating a person and hating something about them or something they do. However, when you throw around epithets like ****** as you have in this thread, it strongly suggests more than simply 'hating the sin'.

I think Conservative is a fine representative of the conservative religious view point on the matter.

Tell us more about the 'faggots' and 'n*ggers' and Jesus.

You know about the first two but you damn sure don't know a thing about the last one. Pretend all you want.

 

[elektra]

I'm gonna let the irony of that post just hang in the air like the scent of a burrito fart.

Irony is that you just described the smell of two homosexual men after performing their abnormal idea of sex.

Your post lacks intelligence.

 

[Skylar]

Heaven is full of saints, not sinners. Saints repent of their sin, receive forgiveness, and mend their ways. Those who do not repent and forsake their sin are forever separated from the love of God.

Does that mean that you consider yourself a saint, or that you believe you will be a saint before you die, or that you will become a saint after you die but before judgement, or that you don't expect to go to heaven?

Again, one of the most common concepts I've heard from Christianity is that all people, every last one other than Christ himself, is a sinner. No amount of repentance changes this intrinsic part of humanity. We are to strive to be as close to perfect as we can but will never achieve it in this life.

Based on this, while I understand that those who do not repent may not get into heaven, those who do get into heaven will still have been sinners while on Earth.

Saying heaven is full of saints makes me wonder if you believe there are a lot of humans on Earth who are free from sin.

You haven't talked to many Christians then. Protestants believe in imputed righteousness, that is, a believer is positionally holy before God, sharing in the impeccable nature of Christ. We Catholics believe in progressive sanctification, that we pursue holiness in this life and that process is brought to completion in Purgatory, where all imperfections are removed in preparation for heaven. No Christian believes that we continue to be practicing sinners after conversion. The Bible says in several ways that we are to crucify the flesh and walk in the newness of our Christian confession; that we are new creations in Christ.

I have listened to many Christians discuss their beliefs and I think you are the first to say or imply that people might live free from sin. If you are saying that people are freed from sin in the afterlife, that is entirely different.

That's not what I said at all. I gave a very clear explanation which you ignored both from the prevailing Protestant view and from the Catholic view, neither of which said that people live free from sin. So you prove that you don't actually listen.

Moreover, your argument that anyone who is perfect in heaven must also be perfect on earth is more than myopic. Christians are translated, made perfect for heaven. What we do here is practice for eternal life, for we are called to abandon the ways of the flesh and pursue the holiness of God and to live holy lives as best we can. Nothing in that implies that we can continue in reprobate practices. Here's what St. James says:

"Submit yourselves then to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail! Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord and he will lift you up."

(4:7-10)

That's the calling of every Christian, to repent, to abandon wicked ways, and to purge ourselves of the filth of sin. In no way can that be mistaken for a belief in living as sinners

The way Montrovant makes Christianity out to be is why people oppose it. Someone that doesn't have a clue convince enough people they do and those other idiots listen because it's what they want to hear.

So you babble about '******' and 'n*ggers' and how you're going to take comfort that the 'faggots' are going to hell.

And you think its Montrovant that makes Christianity out to be something people oppose?

I think Jesus said something about motes and beams that might be useful for you to look up right about now. As the brand of Christianity that you and Fred Phelps specialize in make Christianty look hateful and awful.