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7 States Sue Biden Over Loan Forgiveness Plan

pknopp

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I own a beach house in Ponte Vedra, Florida. I bought it two years ago for $1.2 million. The monthly mortgage on it is a little north of $7,000. I'm fortunate to be in a position where I can do that. That said, if I suddenly decided, due to some "various reason", that I could no longer pay that mortgage, would it then be fair to forgive that loan, allow me to keep the house, and pass the cost of that loan on to the American taxpayer?

Because I don't think it would be, yet that's fundamentally the same scenario as exists with the student loans...

And the banks, and auto makers and well, the list is long.

I don't believe it's fair for taxpayers to be on the hook for Trump's failed trade war with China either. He failed, not me.


Well, if Biden has his way it will be your problem because you're going to be on the hook to pay for those loans...

OK. A small portion of what I've been responsible for, for years.


Despite your obvious desire for it to be so, GM has zero relevance in this discussion...

It most certainly does. They could not meet their obligations (just as in your example of you not paying for your house) and put the debt on the back of taxpayers.
 

Ray From Cleveland

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I'm not convinced that anyone's paying anything extra for federal debt relief. I suppose you could argue that a) there might be some inflationary pressure as a result of people having more money to spend, and b) taxes may be raised in the future to compensate for the lost revenue. However, both of these are unknowns at this point.

We're talking a half a trillion dollars here. Somebody is going to have to pay for it. Believe it or not, there are voters like myself that vote for what's good for the country rather than themselves. I see a country headed for financial collapse and vote buying is only going to get us there faster.
 

Nostra

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Nowhere in a free market do taxpayers get put on the hook.
How are taxpayers put on the hook when a company is offered property tax abatements, Simp? Be specific.
 

multivita-man

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We're talking a half a trillion dollars here. Somebody is going to have to pay for it. Believe it or not, there are voters like myself that vote for what's good for the country rather than themselves. I see a country headed for financial collapse and vote buying is only going to get us there faster.

Oh, no question we're headed for a financial collapse, but it's not because of student borrowers in arrears. If anything freeing them up of that obligation gives them new financial life, which is a good thing for an economy.

We're headed for a collapse - not just of our economy but our civilization, because our way of living is ecologically unsustainable. We probably won't recognize it as such, though. It'll just look like a lot of economic and political crisis, and ultimately, lots and lots of war.
 

Canon Shooter

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The lender can repo the house and sell it.

I would want to ask my attorney, but I'm pretty sure a lender can attach a lien on real property owned by the student loan borrower through legal action if they default on their loan...

The borrower can also declare bankruptcy.

Well, I'm the borrower, so that's not even an issue. See, I only borrow what I know I can afford to repay.

What a fuckin' concept, huh?

Student loan borrowers get their wages garnished and their penalties add up to the point where they have no chance of paying it off. It becomes debt slavery. I believe in moral hazard myself but a financial mistake shouldn't be permanent indentured servitude.

Nor should it mean that they get absolved of their responsibility.

Anyone who has their student loan forgiven should have that reflected as a default on their credit report, and the amount forgiven should be treated as taxable income...
 

Flash

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If you can't pay back the loan that you took out to get a degree then one or both of these things apply:

1. You have a worthless degree.

2. You are a sorry lazy no account individual.
 

multivita-man

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I would want to ask my attorney, but I'm pretty sure a lender can attach a lien on real property owned by the student loan borrower through legal action if they default on their loan...

I think you're missing my point, which is that a student loan default is more burdensome than other kinds of defaults. Sure, bankruptcy's a bitch but it gives people a chance to start over. Student borrowers generally are prohibited from discharging student loan debt, and the penalties are draconian. If you don't like the EO, fine, but change the law. It's perverse.

Well, I'm the borrower, so that's not even an issue. See, I only borrow what I know I can afford to repay.

What a fuckin' concept, huh?

A lot of the people who sign these loans don't know what they're getting into - they don't have life experience or an adult brain. They can get into debt and don't need to prove creditworthiness, only that they've been accepted to a university. Sure, the student borrower deserves blame, but so does the lender and the conduit through which students borrow (i.e., the academic institution).

Nor should it mean that they get absolved of their responsibility.

Agreed - change the laws so that students need to do more to demonstrate they can pay off the loans, and so that schools can demonstrate that they're actually screening students who are likely to finish their programs. Student loan money has often gone to for-profit schools with graduation rates in the 30% range, which is fucking ridiculous. Like the government doesn't realize that the "college" is nothing more than a debt factory at that point...please. Change the laws so that students have to prove to schools they can graduate and let them declare bankruptcy if they can't. That'll put an end to this shit.

Anyone who has their student loan forgiven should have that reflected as a default on their credit report, and the amount forgiven should be treated as taxable income...

Why? That defeats the whole purpose of the relief program. The specific criticisms of the EO aside, I really don't understand why people want to see people in financial distress suffer. How do you benefit from that? How is that "right"? What do taxpayers gain from that? Zero.
 

OhPleaseJustQuit

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As long as you also stick it to those who took PPP payments or you’re just a hypocrite.
I'm glad you think so. At least you have an opinion.
 

Papageorgio

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But as I explained, taxpayers aren't really paying for this anymore than they would for a tax cut. We're not adding new expenses; we're just getting less revenue. So explain, then, why it's good for billionaires to get a tax break but working class Americans to not have some debt relief.



Legally, I admit it's murky. But politically, it's helping people who need a break, and I suppose in some cases, it's helping some who really don't need a break, which is why I wish Biden would have crafted the EO a bit differently to help people who are really distressed, which is something he doesn't need an EO for.
No tax breaks for the rich, no debt forgiveness, we are over $30 trillion in debt. Loans need repaid, taxes need to go up, deductions and loopholes closed up and spending needs to be cut, what we are doing is putting ourselves in a worse position. I am all for helping those in need but this is not an answer.
 

Canon Shooter

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I think you're missing my point, which is that a student loan default is more burdensome than other kinds of defaults. Sure, bankruptcy's a bitch but it gives people a chance to start over. Student borrowers generally are prohibited from discharging student loan debt, and the penalties are draconian. If you don't like the EO, fine, but change the law. It's perverse.

I don't like the American taxpayer being on the hook for someone's poor decision to take on college debt that they couldn't afford...

A lot of the people who sign these loans don't know what they're getting into - they don't have life experience or an adult brain. They can get into debt and don't need to prove creditworthiness, only that they've been accepted to a university. Sure, the student borrower deserves blame, but so does the lender and the conduit through which students borrow (i.e., the academic institution).
Unless the borrower is putting a gun to their head, the borrower assumes all of the responsibility.

If two people borrow the same amount, get the same degree, and one pays his loan diligently while the other doesn't, that pretty much nullifies your argument...

Why? That defeats the whole purpose of the relief program.

No, it certainly does not.

The taxes one would owe on $25,000 is a Helluva' lot less than $25,000.

What are your thoughts regarding having it be a negative hit on their credit report?

The specific criticisms of the EO aside, I really don't understand why people want to see people in financial distress suffer. How do you benefit from that? How is that "right"? What do taxpayers gain from that? Zero.

We gain nothing. In fact, we suffer for it.

Ever see the movie "Jurassic Park"? John Hammond (Richard Attenborough) says to IT specialist Dennis Nedry (Wayne Knight) "Dennis, I don't blame people for their mistakes. But I do ask that they pay for them."

There's not a single thing wrong with that...
 

Ray From Cleveland

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A lot of the people who sign these loans don't know what they're getting into - they don't have life experience or an adult brain. They can get into debt and don't need to prove creditworthiness, only that they've been accepted to a university. Sure, the student borrower deserves blame, but so does the lender and the conduit through which students borrow (i.e., the academic institution).

It's not much different than a kid with their first credit card. When you turn 18 you need to accept responsibilities for your actions. Perhaps the solution is to make a law that you must be 21 years of age to go to college. By then you'll have some money saved up, exposed to the work life and learn a lot of things, and then have a better understanding of money and a direction to go in life.
 

Ray From Cleveland

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You didn’t answer. Paying out of pocket?

However they want to do it: using government money like they are now, going to a bank to get a loan, join our military and serve for four years to get college benefits, and as I mentioned, live at home with mom and dad for a couple of years. I don't care how it's done, just don't be a burden on taxpayers.
 

Ray From Cleveland

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Oh, no question we're headed for a financial collapse, but it's not because of student borrowers in arrears. If anything freeing them up of that obligation gives them new financial life, which is a good thing for an economy.
It's not good for the economy because printing phony money only increases inflation. Yes, student loan forgiveness will be one piece of the puzzle; how can it not be? A few hundred billion here, a few hundred billion there, and it all adds up.
 

CowboyTed

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CowboyTed

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It's not good for the economy because printing phony money only increases inflation. Yes, student loan forgiveness will be one piece of the puzzle; how can it not be? A few hundred billion here, a few hundred billion there, and it all adds up.
That is why countries around the world are targeting how they are giving money out...

The inflation push at the moment was mainly started by the mismanagement of the supply chain... Turns out it easy break and hard to fix, there should be a lesson there...

Liz Truss is the one that got it wrong and got UK in turmoil...
 

Lesh

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However they want to do it: using government money like they are now, going to a bank to get a loan, join our military and serve for four years to get college benefits, and as I mentioned, live at home with mom and dad for a couple of years. I don't care how it's done, just don't be a burden on taxpayers.
Still dodging?

Read this slowly,. How are you paying for your very expensive medical treatment?

Is there a reason you keep ducking that question?

Is it because you're burdening the taxpayers?
 

Nostra

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Most third world countries agree with you. First world, completely different.
Third world countries agree with me that Veggie Joe doesn’t have the Constitutional authority to spen half a trillion dollars on his own?

First world countries disagree?

Got some links?
 

Ray From Cleveland

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Most third world countries agree with you. First world, completely different.

I guess our founders were hoping to create a third world country.
 

Ray From Cleveland

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Still dodging?

Read this slowly,. How are you paying for your very expensive medical treatment?

Is there a reason you keep ducking that question?

Is it because you're burdening the taxpayers?

I don't recall you asking that question, and since it's a personal matter, it's really none of your business.
 

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