48%: The Democratic Party needs to face an ugly reality

[DustyInfinity]

I can't see how rational people would choose what the democrats are offering because they don't like Trump as a person.

Once again, your reasoning is flawed because you're not paying attention.

His embarrassing behaviors and the ugly stain that is Trumpism come AFTER the fact that many of us disagree with him on...

.... ready? ....

THE ISSUES.

This really doesn't need to be that complicated. But you need to listen and think a little.

Fine, what is the left offering that people should support? Don't just give a link to a platform. What do you believe working people want that democrats are offering? If it is all about the policies, then what besides higher taxes, energy costs, crime, and condemnation of all white people are democrats offering? Before you bash me for being lazy, your party is not exactly pushing any policy at the moment. None.

Do you realize you're on the internet? Why are you not curious enough to find out for yourself?

Why not listen to people who think differently than you instead of believing what you're TOLD they think?

This is on you, not me. YOU have to be CURIOUS for a change.

YOU'RE ON THE INTERNET.

There you have it....

Even he doesn't know THE ISSUES that he's supposedly supporting, to the extent that he'll tell you about them....It's up to you to Google it and presume that's what he's all about.

Not just a phony, but a fucking coward to boot.

Holy shit, you're making this too damn easy to just shove straight down your throat. But I'll still be more than happy to!

Go ahead. Start listing off the issues, and I'll be more than happy to show you where I agree or disagree with your buffoon hero.

If you had the balls, you'd just save time by clicking on the links in the 2nd and 4th lines of my sig, since they're going to be the same answers. I've been completely forthcoming on all my positions for a long time, right there.

But that's okay! You have no balls! So list 'em one at a time. Go!

Your party owns crime, anti-white and Asian racism, and is promising to raise the prices on absolutely everything. What is the silver lining that makes that a good idea?

 

[Slade3200]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

You have some very good points.
The problem is the Democrats have a major disadvantage. It is known as the MSM. Historically here is what the MSM did in 2016.
96% donated to Hillary, i.e. their choice and the ONLY way they could affect the aftermath was to present Trump in the worst light.
Honestly... where do you get most of your negative observations of Trump? From the MSM!
I've done this many times showing how a perception generated by the MSM has actually created more Trump supporters.
The perception the MSM has that "Trump is anti-immigrant". Google results: 48,900 "Trump is anti Illegal immigrant"..results 381.
So millions of Americans like me that have relatives OR are "Legal immigrants" are insulted and realize the MSM has fostered a totally
wrong image of Trump...who by the way is MARRIED to a LEGAL immigrant and had a LEGAL immigrant Grandmother.
So when the millions of us are insulted by the MSM making derogatory statements about Trump anti immigrant... WE KNOW that is a LIE!
And consequently we totally then disbelieve EVERYTHING the MSM puts out... sometimes even when it's true!
So the Democrats have a very bad ally with the MSM as it in the worst case that I heard today that could happen is that a vote in Congress would
determine the Presidency. The point the Democrats ALL know is this: There is only 1 vote per state in the House on this issue.

Contingent elections are extremely rare, having occurred only three times in American history, all in the early 1800s
Each state delegation votes en bloc, with each state having a single vote.

Contingent election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

YES each state has just ONE vote in case of contingent election.
So using 2016 as an example: Hillary Clinton won 20 states and DC Trump won 30 states.
So if this became a contingent election and the House determines the Presidency... based on today... Trump would win!
AGAIN just to remind you readers that THINK the electoral college in the case of a "Contingent election" is the end-all-be-all.. Wrong!
The House votes and each state gets just one vote. The candidate that won that state will get the vote.
So even Biden winning NY/CA/IL as Hillary did... the other states and NY/CA/IL all get just one vote!
FACTS..

View attachment 388694

Let’s dig into that. Here is an article by CNN trumps sworn enemy about his recent actions on legal immigration. Can you point out a few things that you think they are lying or misleading about?

Trump administration's swipe at legal immigration puts thousands of lives in limbo

The Trump administration's executive order this week dramatically curtailing legal immigration to the US sent hundreds of people and businesses into a scramble to understand whether their future plans are now derailed.

www.cnn.com

Well right away !

The Migration Policy Institute, a think tank based in Washington, DC, estimates some 167,000 temporary workers will be kept out of the United States as a result of the new restrictions, which took effect on Wednesday.
The administration argued, in the proclamation, that the "extraordinary circumstances" posed by coronavirus called for the suspension of employment-based visas

Trump administration's swipe at legal immigration puts thousands of lives in limbo

The Trump administration's executive order this week dramatically curtailing legal immigration to the US sent hundreds of people and businesses into a scramble to understand whether their future plans are now derailed.

www.cnn.com

So with today's unemployment under 8% you would prefer giving jobs to these people who haven't signed up to become Naturalized Citizens... but are Temporary workers... YOU want THEM to take jobs from people that WANT to be here?

And this anecdotal, heart wrenching oh so sad story...
"I have to work in the location I'm supposed to work, so I'm stuck in Austin," he told CNN. "I have no choice, but I have to stay here all alone."
Venugopal expects to be separated from his wife and 11-month-old daughter through the rest of the year.
Choices. That's what has to be done. It's hard I know!
Shit....! I've been separated from my better half for nearly 2 years! And I'm a natural citizen!
Big f...king woo!
As I pointed out CNN IS NOT a Trump supporter and finds anything... but this is just simply wrong!
Go to Venugopal's country of India... see how hard it is to become a citizen... if you are not in the right CASTE!
The U.S. has one of the world’s weaker laws for illegal entry, according to the data in a study by the Library of Congress, which surveyed statutes in more than 160 nations and released its findings amid a heated debate over whether America’s penalties are too stiff.

Illegal entry penalties in other countries include prison, labor camps, caning

Jumping the border in Singapore is punishable by six months in prison — and not less than three strokes with a cane. In Russia, it can earn you up to two years in a prison labor camp. Pakistan goes as high as 10 years in prison, while India allows for up to eight years behind bars for those who...

www.washingtontimes.com

You are making points sticking up for the policy instead of pointing out where CNN lied which is what I asked

 

[bripat9643]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

And the majors pepper them with frivolous lawsuits challenging that access. Combine that with 'reality tv' media, and there's not much hope. But - the real issue is the stupidity of voters. You simply can't maintain a democracy when voters are so easily manipulated.

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

It’s gotta be a Perot, Cuban, Bloomberg type with the cash to do it and they have to run on Campaign reform to break up the Rs and Ds

Perot was a one-off and the hurdles in many states are even higher now because of his candidacy....The debates are now closed to anyone but (R) & (D) because of him.

I worked in the trenches, while you're spitballing on a message board....You have next to zero chance of getting any new third party on enough ballots to do anything.

I never said I was working to do that I just said I think it would be a great thing for our country if we elected somebody outside of the Reps or Dems and ran our elections in a different way

And I'm telling you that it's a total pipe dream.....The (D)s and (R)s have erected enough barriers so as to make the prospect next to impossible.

That’s very sad if true

I'm afraid it is. I used to think that when the two major parties got bad enough, people would wake up. Clearly, that's not happening. People are stuck on the fear-game - lesser-of-two-evils. Until we neutralize that, by changing to ranked-choice or approval voting, idiot voters are going to keep voting for shitty candidates.

It would be interesting to see if a candidate could exist that pulls equally from
Both sides... my thoughts would be anti-establishment, Fiscal conservative, socially liberal, and able to recognize middle ground on all the major issues. Tough part is the wingnuts are ruling the day so compromise is a dirty word

Spending is the single major issue, and there is no middle ground on that. Immigration is a close second, and once again there is no middle ground.

 

[bripat9643]

I can't see how rational people would choose what the democrats are offering because they don't like Trump as a person.

Once again, your reasoning is flawed because you're not paying attention.

His embarrassing behaviors and the ugly stain that is Trumpism come AFTER the fact that many of us disagree with him on...

.... ready? ....

THE ISSUES.

This really doesn't need to be that complicated. But you need to listen and think a little.

Fine, what is the left offering that people should support? Don't just give a link to a platform. What do you believe working people want that democrats are offering? If it is all about the policies, then what besides higher taxes, energy costs, crime, and condemnation of all white people are democrats offering? Before you bash me for being lazy, your party is not exactly pushing any policy at the moment. None.

Do you realize you're on the internet? Why are you not curious enough to find out for yourself?

Why not listen to people who think differently than you instead of believing what you're TOLD they think?

This is on you, not me. YOU have to be CURIOUS for a change.

YOU'RE ON THE INTERNET.

There you have it....

Even he doesn't know THE ISSUES that he's supposedly supporting, to the extent that he'll tell you about them....It's up to you to Google it and presume that's what he's all about.

Not just a phony, but a fucking coward to boot.

Holy shit, you're making this too damn easy to just shove straight down your throat. But I'll still be more than happy to!

Go ahead. Start listing off the issues, and I'll be more than happy to show you where I agree or disagree with your buffoon hero.

If you had the balls, you'd just save time by clicking on the links in the 2nd and 4th lines of my sig, since they're going to be the same answers. I've been completely forthcoming on all my positions for a long time, right there.

But that's okay! You have no balls! So list 'em one at a time. Go!

Your party owns crime, anti-white and Asian racism, and is promising to raise the prices on absolutely everything. What is the silver lining that makes that a good idea?

Nothing Dims propose will benefit productive middle class Americans. That's why they lie all the time.

 

[Slade3200]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

And the majors pepper them with frivolous lawsuits challenging that access. Combine that with 'reality tv' media, and there's not much hope. But - the real issue is the stupidity of voters. You simply can't maintain a democracy when voters are so easily manipulated.

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

It’s gotta be a Perot, Cuban, Bloomberg type with the cash to do it and they have to run on Campaign reform to break up the Rs and Ds

Perot was a one-off and the hurdles in many states are even higher now because of his candidacy....The debates are now closed to anyone but (R) & (D) because of him.

I worked in the trenches, while you're spitballing on a message board....You have next to zero chance of getting any new third party on enough ballots to do anything.

I never said I was working to do that I just said I think it would be a great thing for our country if we elected somebody outside of the Reps or Dems and ran our elections in a different way

And I'm telling you that it's a total pipe dream.....The (D)s and (R)s have erected enough barriers so as to make the prospect next to impossible.

That’s very sad if true

I'm afraid it is. I used to think that when the two major parties got bad enough, people would wake up. Clearly, that's not happening. People are stuck on the fear-game - lesser-of-two-evils. Until we neutralize that, by changing to ranked-choice or approval voting, idiot voters are going to keep voting for shitty candidates.

It would be interesting to see if a candidate could exist that pulls equally from
Both sides... my thoughts would be anti-establishment, Fiscal conservative, socially liberal, and able to recognize middle ground on all the major issues. Tough part is the wingnuts are ruling the day so compromise is a dirty word

Spending is the single major issue, and there is no middle ground on that. Immigration is a close second, and once again there is no middle ground.

There’s always middle ground. It’s assholes like yourself on both sides that make getting anything done impossible

 

[Oddball]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

And the majors pepper them with frivolous lawsuits challenging that access. Combine that with 'reality tv' media, and there's not much hope. But - the real issue is the stupidity of voters. You simply can't maintain a democracy when voters are so easily manipulated.

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

It’s gotta be a Perot, Cuban, Bloomberg type with the cash to do it and they have to run on Campaign reform to break up the Rs and Ds

Perot was a one-off and the hurdles in many states are even higher now because of his candidacy....The debates are now closed to anyone but (R) & (D) because of him.

I worked in the trenches, while you're spitballing on a message board....You have next to zero chance of getting any new third party on enough ballots to do anything.

I never said I was working to do that I just said I think it would be a great thing for our country if we elected somebody outside of the Reps or Dems and ran our elections in a different way

And I'm telling you that it's a total pipe dream.....The (D)s and (R)s have erected enough barriers so as to make the prospect next to impossible.

That’s very sad if true

I'm afraid it is. I used to think that when the two major parties got bad enough, people would wake up. Clearly, that's not happening. People are stuck on the fear-game - lesser-of-two-evils. Until we neutralize that, by changing to ranked-choice or approval voting, idiot voters are going to keep voting for shitty candidates.

It would be interesting to see if a candidate could exist that pulls equally from
Both sides... my thoughts would be anti-establishment, Fiscal conservative, socially liberal, and able to recognize middle ground on all the major issues. Tough part is the wingnuts are ruling the day so compromise is a dirty word

Spending is the single major issue, and there is no middle ground on that. Immigration is a close second, and once again there is no middle ground.

There’s always middle ground. It’s asshole like yourself on both sides that make getting anything done impossible

"The middle ground" almost always ends up in getting the law abiding and the taxpayer ass raped.

Moreover, what "middle ground" would you accept between a NY strip steak and a heap of shit?

 

[Oddball]

I can't see how rational people would choose what the democrats are offering because they don't like Trump as a person.

Once again, your reasoning is flawed because you're not paying attention.

His embarrassing behaviors and the ugly stain that is Trumpism come AFTER the fact that many of us disagree with him on...

.... ready? ....

THE ISSUES.

This really doesn't need to be that complicated. But you need to listen and think a little.

Fine, what is the left offering that people should support? Don't just give a link to a platform. What do you believe working people want that democrats are offering? If it is all about the policies, then what besides higher taxes, energy costs, crime, and condemnation of all white people are democrats offering? Before you bash me for being lazy, your party is not exactly pushing any policy at the moment. None.

Do you realize you're on the internet? Why are you not curious enough to find out for yourself?

Why not listen to people who think differently than you instead of believing what you're TOLD they think?

This is on you, not me. YOU have to be CURIOUS for a change.

YOU'RE ON THE INTERNET.

There you have it....

Even he doesn't know THE ISSUES that he's supposedly supporting, to the extent that he'll tell you about them....It's up to you to Google it and presume that's what he's all about.

Not just a phony, but a fucking coward to boot.

Holy shit, you're making this too damn easy to just shove straight down your throat. But I'll still be more than happy to!

Go ahead. Start listing off the issues, and I'll be more than happy to show you where I agree or disagree with your buffoon hero.

If you had the balls, you'd just save time by clicking on the links in the 2nd and 4th lines of my sig, since they're going to be the same answers. I've been completely forthcoming on all my positions for a long time, right there.

But that's okay! You have no balls! So list 'em one at a time. Go!

Your party owns crime, anti-white and Asian racism, and is promising to raise the prices on absolutely everything. What is the silver lining that makes that a good idea?

Mac the Hack gets to feel good about himself.....Besides, voting for others to do his looting for him saves him the effort and the possibility of getting his ass kicked.

 

[MarathonMike]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

Your entire case against President Trump is based in your hatred for the man and how you perceive him to be on a personal level. Neither should be the criterion for selecting a President.

 

[Oddball]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

Your entire case against President Trump is based in your hatred for the man and how you perceive him to be on a personal level. Neither should be the criterion for selecting a President.

But....but....but...butbutbutbut....

IT'S THE ISSUES!

 

[dblack]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

Your entire case against President Trump is based in your hatred for the man and how you perceive him to be on a personal level. Neither should be the criterion for selecting a President.

Trump is the first candidate I reject purely on character. I don't trust him. At all.

 

[Oddball]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

Your entire case against President Trump is based in your hatred for the man and how you perceive him to be on a personal level. Neither should be the criterion for selecting a President.

Trump is the first candidate I reject purely on character. I don't trust him. At all.

And there's not one thing wrong with that opinion, or your actions based upon it.

But you're not the one coming here one day saying that you'll vote for Biden because of that mistrust one day, then cynically turning around and claiming that you're all about the issues the next.

 

[healthmyths]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

You have some very good points.
The problem is the Democrats have a major disadvantage. It is known as the MSM. Historically here is what the MSM did in 2016.
96% donated to Hillary, i.e. their choice and the ONLY way they could affect the aftermath was to present Trump in the worst light.
Honestly... where do you get most of your negative observations of Trump? From the MSM!
I've done this many times showing how a perception generated by the MSM has actually created more Trump supporters.
The perception the MSM has that "Trump is anti-immigrant". Google results: 48,900 "Trump is anti Illegal immigrant"..results 381.
So millions of Americans like me that have relatives OR are "Legal immigrants" are insulted and realize the MSM has fostered a totally
wrong image of Trump...who by the way is MARRIED to a LEGAL immigrant and had a LEGAL immigrant Grandmother.
So when the millions of us are insulted by the MSM making derogatory statements about Trump anti immigrant... WE KNOW that is a LIE!
And consequently we totally then disbelieve EVERYTHING the MSM puts out... sometimes even when it's true!
So the Democrats have a very bad ally with the MSM as it in the worst case that I heard today that could happen is that a vote in Congress would
determine the Presidency. The point the Democrats ALL know is this: There is only 1 vote per state in the House on this issue.

Contingent elections are extremely rare, having occurred only three times in American history, all in the early 1800s
Each state delegation votes en bloc, with each state having a single vote.

Contingent election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

YES each state has just ONE vote in case of contingent election.
So using 2016 as an example: Hillary Clinton won 20 states and DC Trump won 30 states.
So if this became a contingent election and the House determines the Presidency... based on today... Trump would win!
AGAIN just to remind you readers that THINK the electoral college in the case of a "Contingent election" is the end-all-be-all.. Wrong!
The House votes and each state gets just one vote. The candidate that won that state will get the vote.
So even Biden winning NY/CA/IL as Hillary did... the other states and NY/CA/IL all get just one vote!
FACTS..

View attachment 388694

Let’s dig into that. Here is an article by CNN trumps sworn enemy about his recent actions on legal immigration. Can you point out a few things that you think they are lying or misleading about?

Trump administration's swipe at legal immigration puts thousands of lives in limbo

The Trump administration's executive order this week dramatically curtailing legal immigration to the US sent hundreds of people and businesses into a scramble to understand whether their future plans are now derailed.

www.cnn.com

Well right away !

The Migration Policy Institute, a think tank based in Washington, DC, estimates some 167,000 temporary workers will be kept out of the United States as a result of the new restrictions, which took effect on Wednesday.
The administration argued, in the proclamation, that the "extraordinary circumstances" posed by coronavirus called for the suspension of employment-based visas

Trump administration's swipe at legal immigration puts thousands of lives in limbo

The Trump administration's executive order this week dramatically curtailing legal immigration to the US sent hundreds of people and businesses into a scramble to understand whether their future plans are now derailed.

www.cnn.com

So with today's unemployment under 8% you would prefer giving jobs to these people who haven't signed up to become Naturalized Citizens... but are Temporary workers... YOU want THEM to take jobs from people that WANT to be here?

And this anecdotal, heart wrenching oh so sad story...
"I have to work in the location I'm supposed to work, so I'm stuck in Austin," he told CNN. "I have no choice, but I have to stay here all alone."
Venugopal expects to be separated from his wife and 11-month-old daughter through the rest of the year.
Choices. That's what has to be done. It's hard I know!
Shit....! I've been separated from my better half for nearly 2 years! And I'm a natural citizen!
Big f...king woo!
As I pointed out CNN IS NOT a Trump supporter and finds anything... but this is just simply wrong!
Go to Venugopal's country of India... see how hard it is to become a citizen... if you are not in the right CASTE!
The U.S. has one of the world’s weaker laws for illegal entry, according to the data in a study by the Library of Congress, which surveyed statutes in more than 160 nations and released its findings amid a heated debate over whether America’s penalties are too stiff.

Illegal entry penalties in other countries include prison, labor camps, caning

Jumping the border in Singapore is punishable by six months in prison — and not less than three strokes with a cane. In Russia, it can earn you up to two years in a prison labor camp. Pakistan goes as high as 10 years in prison, while India allows for up to eight years behind bars for those who...

www.washingtontimes.com

You are making points sticking up for the policy instead of pointing out where CNN lied which is what I asked

You are right. I couldn't find anything in the CNN article where they lied.
But what they did is while they DIDN"T LIE... they didn't tell the whole story. Their emphasis was Trump bad. Here's how.
It wasn't an objective unbiased story. They said 167,000 temporary workers will be kept out of the United States as a result of the new restrictions, which took effect on Wednesday. BUT they didn't say the primary reason... COVID travel ban.
But immigrant advocates, industries, and experts say the administration is taking advantage of the pandemic to make sweeping changes to the nation's immigration system and advance its agenda to slash legal immigration.
And CNN thinks this is a bad idea!
Some companies had already spent thousands of dollars on visa processing. Nair said she's engaged in conversations with businesses who are wondering whether they should expand their operations overseas, instead of in the US.

So I agree they didn't lie. But what they did is make the article another "Bash Trump". More negatives and NO positives, i.e. that unemployed
Americans might be hired now. Or gasp the best idea... expand overseas.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often a
llowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

The Democrats need to retake control of their party, they need to tell the Neo-Marxists to GTFO because NO Western nation and ESPECIALLY America wants Marxism and wants to collapse Capitalism and replace it with Anarchy and a Communist System.

It would be very nice if Republican wanna bees could speak without the th echo chamber dog whistles that show up every election.Ie Neo-Marxism, communism, socialism all connotations of actions that will not happen just because the opposition may get elected.

It would be much nicer if there weren't actual, confessed Neo-Marxists/Commies/etc.

Are we not allowed to take these motherfucking pieces of shit at their cocksucking word? They admit it!!!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

And the majors pepper them with frivolous lawsuits challenging that access. Combine that with 'reality tv' media, and there's not much hope. But - the real issue is the stupidity of voters. You simply can't maintain a democracy when voters are so easily manipulated.

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

It’s gotta be a Perot, Cuban, Bloomberg type with the cash to do it and they have to run on Campaign reform to break up the Rs and Ds

Perot was a one-off and the hurdles in many states are even higher now because of his candidacy....The debates are now closed to anyone but (R) & (D) because of him.

I worked in the trenches, while you're spitballing on a message board....You have next to zero chance of getting any new third party on enough ballots to do anything.

I never said I was working to do that I just said I think it would be a great thing for our country if we elected somebody outside of the Reps or Dems and ran our elections in a different way

And I'm telling you that it's a total pipe dream.....The (D)s and (R)s have erected enough barriers so as to make the prospect next to impossible.

That’s very sad if true

I'm afraid it is. I used to think that when the two major parties got bad enough, people would wake up. Clearly, that's not happening. People are stuck on the fear-game - lesser-of-two-evils. Until we neutralize that, by changing to ranked-choice or approval voting, idiot voters are going to keep voting for shitty candidates.

It would be interesting to see if a candidate could exist that pulls equally from
Both sides... my thoughts would be anti-establishment, Fiscal conservative, socially liberal, and able to recognize middle ground on all the major issues. Tough part is the wingnuts are ruling the day so compromise is a dirty word

Spending is the single major issue, and there is no middle ground on that. Immigration is a close second, and once again there is no middle ground.

There’s always middle ground. It’s assholes like yourself on both sides that make getting anything done impossible

There is no middle ground when one side wants nothing to do with it.

Look at this last bill that failed in the House. Democrats wanted 600 bucks extra unemployment. Republicans said they'd settle for 300. They wanted 30 billion for the Post Office. The Republicans said they'd go with ten billion. The Democrats wanted another $1,200 stimulus check and the Republicans didn't go for it, but Nancy didn't even try for any negotiations. It's their way or no way at all, and they refused to meet at this middle-ground you talk about.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

And the majors pepper them with frivolous lawsuits challenging that access. Combine that with 'reality tv' media, and there's not much hope. But - the real issue is the stupidity of voters. You simply can't maintain a democracy when voters are so easily manipulated.

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

It’s gotta be a Perot, Cuban, Bloomberg type with the cash to do it and they have to run on Campaign reform to break up the Rs and Ds

Perot was a one-off and the hurdles in many states are even higher now because of his candidacy....The debates are now closed to anyone but (R) & (D) because of him.

I worked in the trenches, while you're spitballing on a message board....You have next to zero chance of getting any new third party on enough ballots to do anything.

I never said I was working to do that I just said I think it would be a great thing for our country if we elected somebody outside of the Reps or Dems and ran our elections in a different way

And I'm telling you that it's a total pipe dream.....The (D)s and (R)s have erected enough barriers so as to make the prospect next to impossible.

That’s very sad if true

I'm afraid it is. I used to think that when the two major parties got bad enough, people would wake up. Clearly, that's not happening. People are stuck on the fear-game - lesser-of-two-evils. Until we neutralize that, by changing to ranked-choice or approval voting, idiot voters are going to keep voting for shitty candidates.

The parties are splintering a bit. Donald Trump was a protest vote by Republicans in the primary, and Republicans and Independents in the general election. Look at the Democrat party. They are split between the socialists and the establishment. The face of the party is now the idiot three socialists, one of them not even from our country.

Did they form new parties or move to another one? No they didn't. But does it really matter?

 

[Oddball]

The parties are splintering a bit. Donald Trump was a protest vote by Republicans in the primary, and Republicans and Independents in the general election. Look at the Democrat party. They are split between the socialists and the establishment. The face of the party is now the idiot three socialists, one of them not even from our country.

Did they form new parties or move to another one? No they didn't. But does it really matter?

The face of the party is now the idiot three socialists, one of them not even from our country.

And one borderline coherent, tone deaf, washed up old hag, who can only keep her tenuous grip on power through coercion and intimidation.

 

[Dr Grump]

The Democrats need to retake control of their party, they need to tell the Neo-Marxists to GTFO because NO Western nation and ESPECIALLY America wants Marxism and wants to collapse Capitalism and replace it with Anarchy and a Communist System.

Stop with the Chicken littling. As if that is going to happen. Stop throwing words around that you have no idea what they mean. And I say that because if you did know what they meant, you wouldn't be saying that.

 

[Dr Grump]

And one borderline coherent, tone deaf, washed up old hag, who can only keep her tenuous grip on power through coercion and intimidation.

And yet Trump makes her look like Einstein.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I can't see how rational people would choose what the democrats are offering because they don't like Trump as a person.

Once again, your reasoning is flawed because you're not paying attention.

His embarrassing behaviors and the ugly stain that is Trumpism come AFTER the fact that many of us disagree with him on...

.... ready? ....

THE ISSUES.

This really doesn't need to be that complicated. But you need to listen and think a little.

Fine, what is the left offering that people should support? Don't just give a link to a platform. What do you believe working people want that democrats are offering? If it is all about the policies, then what besides higher taxes, energy costs, crime, and condemnation of all white people are democrats offering? Before you bash me for being lazy, your party is not exactly pushing any policy at the moment. None.

Do you realize you're on the internet? Why are you not curious enough to find out for yourself?

Why not listen to people who think differently than you instead of believing what you're TOLD they think?

This is on you, not me. YOU have to be CURIOUS for a change.

YOU'RE ON THE INTERNET.

There you have it....

Even he doesn't know THE ISSUES that he's supposedly supporting, to the extent that he'll tell you about them....It's up to you to Google it and presume that's what he's all about.

Not just a phony, but a fucking coward to boot.

Holy shit, you're making this too damn easy to just shove straight down your throat. But I'll still be more than happy to!

Go ahead. Start listing off the issues, and I'll be more than happy to show you where I agree or disagree with your buffoon hero.

If you had the balls, you'd just save time by clicking on the links in the 2nd and 4th lines of my sig, since they're going to be the same answers. I've been completely forthcoming on all my positions for a long time, right there.

But that's okay! You have no balls! So list 'em one at a time. Go!

Once again, I'm not a Trumpster...Unless you've foolishly ^ahem^ assumed that my understanding of who a guy is and what he's going through signals approval of him....I'm here to break the bad news to you that it doesn't.

And I don't need to click on any of your silly links to remember what you said all the way back to yesterday, or maybe Saturday, in that you'll be voting for Biden because you see him as less bad than Trump.

Lo2E NOT voting the issues, you fraudulent, disingenuous, lying piece of shit.

Its binary thinking in action.

Unless you react in opposition to everything Trump does, you are a " Trumpster"

This is the problem with today's left as far as I'm concerned. They haven't the foggiest idea what liberalism actually entails. All they know is that if Trump says up , they say down.

Take tarrifs, for instance. Is there one single leftist in this forum with enough political savy to understand that this has always been a LIBERAL position taken to defend American workers? No, of course not. All they know is that when Orange man did it, they were required to oppose it.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

And yet Trump makes her look like Einstein.

Well, maybe BEFORE her latest trip to the hairdressers without wearing the mask she demands the hoi polloi must use.

Not so much after the taming of those wild locks.