14 yr old rape victim lashed to death

[Bosun]

how would apostasy be dealt with in, say iran?

 

[Trajan]

he reports said Hena was raped by her 40-year-old relative Mahbub on Sunday. Next day, a fatwa was announced at a village arbitration that she must be given 100 lashes. She fell unconscious after nearly 80 lashes.

Fatally injured Hena was rushed to Naria health complex where she succumbed to her injuries.

Govt asked to explain failure to stop fatwa

what the hell is a fatwa?

Definition: A fatwa is an Islamic religious ruling, a scholarly opinion on a matter of Islamic law.

A fatwa is issued by a recognized religious authority in Islam. But since there is no hierarchical priesthood or anything of the sort in Islam, a fatwa is not necessarily "binding" on the faithful. The people who pronounce these rulings are supposed to be knowledgable, and base their rulings in knowledge and wisdom. They need to supply the evidence from Islamic sources for their opinions, and it is not uncommon for scholars to come to different conclusions regarding the same issue.

Islamic Glossary: Fatwa

well part of the answer is the gov. has decided that this really has to be, as they need the islamic/fundie cooperation in their gov. which is collapsing, in that they are simply going through the motions, and expressed sppt. all be it in their own polite circles a sympathetic attitude for the body guard who assassinated a provincial gov. who was moderate and asked that blasphemy laws etc. be softened.....


see here..
Pakistani Religious Groups Cheer Bodyguard Who Murdered Moderate Governor (Video) | The Gateway Pundit

I believe this incident took place in Bangladesh, not Pakistan.

yes you are right and imho a distinction without a difference....

 

[Kalam]

that is right, you are not sunni are you?

I am Sunni and follow the Hanafi madhhab in most jurisprudential matters.

how would apostasy be dealt with in, say iran?

Incorrectly, I imagine.

 

[Bosun]

that is right, you are not sunni are you?

I am Sunni and follow the Hanafi madhhab in most jurisprudential matters.

how would apostasy be dealt with in, say iran?

Incorrectly, I imagine.

so, you are sunni... thanks.... now how would the hanafi madhhab deal with those who have fallen away from the faith?


food for thought, from the article in linked previously,

The United Nations estimates that about 5,000 honour killings occur across the globe every year. Although rare, they do happen in the U.S.

In the Dallas suburb of Lewisville, Texas, Yaser Abdel Said, of Egypt, is accused of shooting his two Texas-born teenage daughters in the back of his taxi cab in 2008 in what the FBI calls an honour killing. Family members say Said felt the girls were acting too Western and had shamed him by dating non-Muslims.

In Buffalo, New York, Muzzammil Hassan is accused of beheading his wife in 2009, about a week after he was served with divorce papers. The body of Aasiya Hassan was found at the offices of Bridges TV, the station the Pakistan-born couple established in 2004 to counter negative stereotypes of Muslims.

 

[Kalam]

so, you are sunni... thanks.... now how would the hanafi madhhab deal with those who have fallen away from the faith?

As I've said, I can't answer this question without you being more specific. Was the apostate coerced? Had the apostate converted to Islam from another religion before leaving Islam for their original faith, or was he or she born into Islam? What was the nature of his or her apostasy -- did he or she speak against Islam or become involved in some sort of effort against it?

food for thought, from the article in linked previously,

Were you going to comment on this incident?

 

[Grace]

I find it quite interesting how kalam seems very respectful to the other men in answering questions. Telling, in fact.

Bros before hos mentality.

Are you insinuating that I'm a sexist? Please feel free to offer any statement of mine degrading women as evidence of this.

If the shoe fits, wear it. I just laid it at your feet and you're seemingly wanting to put them on. Go for it.
I don't need to post a statement. It's my opinion of which I am entitled to. Don't like it? Tough patooties.

How do you know that these posters are men? How did you know that I'm a man?

If you are not a man, you are a disgrace to all females. Again, my opinion.

 

[Kalam]

Don't like it? Tough patooties.

To be honest, I don't really care. Tell yourself whatever makes you happy.

 

[Grace]

I know you don't care. That's the problem.

*Shrug*


Insha'Allah

 

[Bosun]

so, you are sunni... thanks.... now how would the hanafi madhhab deal with those who have fallen away from the faith?

As I've said, I can't answer this question without you being more specific. Was the apostate coerced? Had the apostate converted to Islam from another religion before leaving Islam for their original faith, or was he or she born into Islam? What was the nature of his or her apostasy -- did he or she speak against Islam or become involved in some sort of effort against it?

food for thought, from the article in linked previously,

Were you going to comment on this incident?

OK, apostasy was not coerced. the person, born a Muslim, heard the word of god through unbelievers and accepted that the House of Issac over Ismael. In other-words reject the Qur'an as not being true, and Muhammad as the inventor of a religion and not being inspired of the Archangel Gabriel.... The Apostate now believes that Abraham took Issac up on the mountain and was justified at releasing Ismael and Hagar from his home because they were unusally cruel to Issac.

Now the Apostate reveals that Islam is not the true religion, however, does not go out of his or her way to openly oppose or disrespect it.... How would you and your Islamic court deal with that person? What if it was one who was emotionally close to you, how would you deal with it?

 

[Bosun]

In another case, we could complicate it that an Apostate converts to Buddhism or Hinduism and believes in more than one God.....

Me, I do not like all the hypetheticals... But we can play it any way you like.....

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

A rape victim is never punished. A rapist is always punished whether there are four witnesses or not.

Id like some authority beyond just your interwebbing.
Links or it is trite bullshit.

 

[Intense]

so, you are sunni... thanks.... now how would the hanafi madhhab deal with those who have fallen away from the faith?

As I've said, I can't answer this question without you being more specific. Was the apostate coerced? Had the apostate converted to Islam from another religion before leaving Islam for their original faith, or was he or she born into Islam? What was the nature of his or her apostasy -- did he or she speak against Islam or become involved in some sort of effort against it?

food for thought, from the article in linked previously,

Were you going to comment on this incident?

OK, apostasy was not coerced. the person, born a Muslim, heard the word of god through unbelievers and accepted that the House of Issac over Ismael. In other-words reject the Qur'an as not being true, and Muhammad as the inventor of a religion and not being inspired of the Archangel Gabriel.... The Apostate now believes that Abraham took Issac up on the mountain and was justified at releasing Ismael and Hagar from his home because they were unusally cruel to Issac.

Now the Apostate reveals that Islam is not the true religion, however, does not go out of his or her way to openly oppose or disrespect it.... How would you and your Islamic court deal with that person? What if it was one who was emotionally close to you, how would you deal with it?

Isn't that obvious. He will tell you exactly what he thinks you want to hear until he gets you were he wants you, and then it's time to meet your maker. Slam-dunk.

 

[Bosun]

As I've said, I can't answer this question without you being more specific. Was the apostate coerced? Had the apostate converted to Islam from another religion before leaving Islam for their original faith, or was he or she born into Islam? What was the nature of his or her apostasy -- did he or she speak against Islam or become involved in some sort of effort against it?



Were you going to comment on this incident?

OK, apostasy was not coerced. the person, born a Muslim, heard the word of god through unbelievers and accepted that the House of Issac over Ismael. In other-words reject the Qur'an as not being true, and Muhammad as the inventor of a religion and not being inspired of the Archangel Gabriel.... The Apostate now believes that Abraham took Issac up on the mountain and was justified at releasing Ismael and Hagar from his home because they were unusally cruel to Issac.

Now the Apostate reveals that Islam is not the true religion, however, does not go out of his or her way to openly oppose or disrespect it.... How would you and your Islamic court deal with that person? What if it was one who was emotionally close to you, how would you deal with it?

Isn't that obvious. He will tell you exactly what he thinks you want to hear until he gets you were he wants you, and then it's time to meet your maker. Slam-dunk.

depends whose maker it is, my brother... I hope that I have not even nudged that line.... I have been civil and I am not trying to put him (or anyone) in a box... I am still learning about this forum... If you see me straying in shallow waters, throw me a lead line and tell me to take a sounding to see how much water is under my keel. Peace.

 

[Big Fitz]

I think the women over there need to rip off their face masks and riot against their repressors. Get those curvy swords and start whackin'. They will probably die, but...better to go down swinging than be subject to such bullshit. (ala Burning Bed sorta thing).
Viva la revolution!

interesting, does the end justify the means/

no, but incoming fire has the 'right of way'.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Oh for fucks sake. FOUR WITNESSES?

See above. Four witnesses are not required to pass sentence on a rapist.

Is not about rape, it is about adultery.
The Dead girls claim of rape was insufficient in Islam.

A womans word is worth half that of a mans
CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts
A man claiming consensual sex without witness is a liar unless he is a good guy

24:4

And those who accuse chaste women, and produce not four witnesses, flog them with eighty stripes, and reject their testimony forever, they indeed are the Fâsiqûn (liars, rebellious, disobedient to Allâh). (An-Nur 24:4)


24:5

Except those who repent thereafter and do righteous deeds, (for such) verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (An-Nur 24:5)


SalafiPublications.Com : The Salafi, Creed, Worship and Methodology

4 witnesses needed to prove adultery
CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts
Without four wintesses they are liars
CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts

The background for the Qur'anic requirement of four witnesses to adultery. Muhammad's favorite wife, Aisha, was accused of cheating [on her polygamous husband]. Three witnesses corroborated the event, but Muhammad did not want to believe it, and so established the arbitrary rule that four witnesses are required.
CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts

A women would be a fool to say anything about anything as she is likely to be punished for zina ( unlawful intercourse) if the man does not confess.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Sharia always fails everytime .

 

[mdn2000]

This is just not one persons interpetation of Islam, it seems its the whole cities interpetation. This was not one cleric simply passing judgement, not in the least. How is it that a man is raping a girl yet even his wife joins to beat the woman, the wife and a brother.

And you're suggesting that a local "judge" and villagers in one of the world's poorest countries -- people who are almost certainly illiterate and have had no formal education, "Islamic" or otherwise -- are likely to have a better understanding of Shari'ah than, say, people who teach Shari'ah at a university in one of the world's largest Muslim countries? Do you know that the village was unanimous in its support of this decision?

You clearly want this to be legitimate under Shari'ah and are ignoring common sense in your attempt to make that appear to be the case. Yawn.

There is no indication that the Imam of the local Mosque is illiterate, there is also no indication that he interpeted Sharia law incorrectly. There is actually no reason for you to stereotype the entire town as being illiterate, without a formal education, or of knowing less about Islam than an unnamed Universtiy.

The case can be made that the people of who Kalem stereotypes as illiterate have a better understanding of how Islam is practiced than lets say, Kalem, who does not live in a village where Islam is the culture and has been for a centuries.

I am not ignoring common sense, simply trying to show you have no common sense. Kalem, as Islam is practiced is not how you have expained Islam should be interpeted.

 

[Kalam]

OK, apostasy was not coerced. the person, born a Muslim, heard the word of god through unbelievers and accepted that the House of Issac over Ismael. In other-words reject the Qur'an as not being true, and Muhammad as the inventor of a religion and not being inspired of the Archangel Gabriel.... The Apostate now believes that Abraham took Issac up on the mountain and was justified at releasing Ismael and Hagar from his home because they were unusally cruel to Issac.

Now the Apostate reveals that Islam is not the true religion, however, does not go out of his or her way to openly oppose or disrespect it.... How would you and your Islamic court deal with that person? What if it was one who was emotionally close to you, how would you deal with it?

If this person abandoned the Truth for the falsehoods you describe above and spread the news of their apostasy in public, they will have sufficiently proved themselves guilty of apostasy and treason and face execution if they did not recant. Their closeness to me or anybody else would not affect the sentencing.

 

[mdn2000]

If I lived in a truly Islamic society with courts that observed Shari'ah, I'd defer to their judgment and trust that they'd make the proper decision based on the Word of Allah ta'ala and the example provided by his Messenger, Muhammad (SAWS).
.

So in the case of this murder of a fourteen old girl, you would defer to the judgement of the culture in which this happened.

Absolutely not. I said that I'd defer to the judgment of a Shari'i court that made decisions based on the Qur'an and the Sunnah; I made no mention of culture and we've seen that the arbitration in the case of the murdered girl was neither based on the revelations of Allah ta'ala nor on the Sunnah of his Messenger.

I know that is attempting to put words in your mouth

I'd say so.

Sorry, I cannot call "Islamic society", culture?

In light of what Kalem stated I thought this was contradictory, I think so even more so as I think about my posts and Kalem's.

 

[Bosun]

OK, apostasy was not coerced. the person, born a Muslim, heard the word of god through unbelievers and accepted that the House of Issac over Ismael. In other-words reject the Qur'an as not being true, and Muhammad as the inventor of a religion and not being inspired of the Archangel Gabriel.... The Apostate now believes that Abraham took Issac up on the mountain and was justified at releasing Ismael and Hagar from his home because they were unusally cruel to Issac.

Now the Apostate reveals that Islam is not the true religion, however, does not go out of his or her way to openly oppose or disrespect it.... How would you and your Islamic court deal with that person? What if it was one who was emotionally close to you, how would you deal with it?

If this person abandoned the Truth for the falsehoods you describe above and spread the news of their apostasy in public, they will have sufficiently proved themselves guilty of apostasy and treason and face execution if they did not recant. Their closeness to me or anybody else would not affect the sentencing.

so, the sentence of death is appropriate? would honour killing by a senior member of the family be appropriate? would you caste the first stone, Bro?