11 Democrat states have formed a pact to sabotage the Electoral College

[Pogo]

One more time, the reason for the electoral college is so that every state in the union gets equal representation when it comes to federal elections.

Yup. The Electoral College exists to give each state the EXACT same sort of representation and power in the Presidential election that they have in the House of Representatives. So if one thinks the Electoral College is "unfair and undemocratic", then one obviously believes the House is also.

If that were the case --- states would not be getting two extra Electors for their Senators. Senators only exist because there's a state there, not because there's X number of people there.

That's a big part of why it takes three and a half New York votes to have the same influence as one Wyoming vote.

 

[Montrovant]

If the 2016 results were in reverse, Trump winning the popular vote the Hildebeast winning the EC the sore loser demrats would not be having their meltdown,

While there has certainly seemed to be a push for changing to a popular vote since the last election, this interstate compact was proposed years before now. In fact, while there are 11 states and DC that have agreed to the compact, Connecticut is the first to do so since the most recent election.

Connecticut OKs Measure to Join Effort to Bypass Electoral College

 

[Pogo]

You continuously fail to see the need for the EC because you keep trying to swing it back to being about PEOPLE. PEOPLE decide the outcome at the state level and the EC gives each STATE then a proportional voice so that all of them are represented fairly. Otherwise, every election would be decided not only by a handful of states like CA and NY, but by a handful of CITIES in those states, and none of the rest of the states would have any voice at all.

As opposed to giving too much influence to rural areas

Let THE PEOPLE elect the President, one man, one vote

The Senate is proportioned to protect the interests of unpopulated states

Exactly - Amazing right? California with 33 million residents has two Senators and so do all these states with less than 3/4 of a million.

That makes things PLENTY fair

Alaska 735,132
North Dakota 723,393
Vermont 626,630
Wyoming 582,658

Again, Moron, the Senators do not REPRESENT YOU. They represent the state. One state, two senators. The population doesn't mean JACK (except to you whining baby snowflakes). If you want REPRESENTATION, go to the ******* HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. God, did you ever graduate from high school? And if so, HOW?

My Senators don't represent me or my interests as well as state issues?

MMMMKay

One of my Senators dad's helped kill JFK. President "CT" Trumpybear said so.

What? Woody Harrelson is a Senator now?

 

[eagle7_31]

If the 2016 results were in reverse, Trump winning the popular vote the Hildebeast winning the EC the sore loser demrats would not be having their meltdown,

While there has certainly seemed to be a push for changing to a popular vote since the last election, this interstate compact was proposed years before now. In fact, while there are 11 states and DC that have agreed to the compact, Connecticut is the first to do so since the most recent election.

Connecticut OKs Measure to Join Effort to Bypass Electoral College

I agree there have been attempts to change the EC off and on over the years, but the decibel level by the left from 2016 results have very high to say the least since they hated the end result,

 

[Pogo]

Connecticut To Give Its Electoral College Votes To National Popular Vote Victor

Connecticut voted to give its Electoral College Votes to the national popular vote victor. The state Senate voted 21-14 on Saturday to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, which includes 10 states and the District of Columbia. The state House passed the measure last week, 77 to 73. California, Hawaii, Illinois, Massachusetts, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington and the District of Columbia have already signed the accord.

This might give the Corrupt Democratic Party permanent control.
With permanent control the Corrupt Democrats will be able ignore the laws and the constitution and nobody could stop them. What do you think will happen to America if the Democrats are undefeatable?

It will last until republicans win the popular vote.

Can you imagine if Donald trump does that in 2020 and all those blue states end up sending him electors?

The aliens from the next solar system over will send scouts to find out what all the noise is about, and to ask us to keep it down.

Those scouts will prolly get shot too.

--- which will confuse them to no end if those aliens happen not to have themselves developed firearms, which is to say, if they happen to not have penises.

 

[Pogo]

If the 2016 results were in reverse, Trump winning the popular vote the Hildebeast winning the EC the sore loser demrats would not be having their meltdown,

While there has certainly seemed to be a push for changing to a popular vote since the last election, this interstate compact was proposed years before now. In fact, while there are 11 states and DC that have agreed to the compact, Connecticut is the first to do so since the most recent election.

Connecticut OKs Measure to Join Effort to Bypass Electoral College

I agree there have been attempts to change the EC off and on over the years, but the decibel level by the left from 2016 results have very high to say the least since they hated the end result,

Once AGAIN this initiative was under way way before 2016.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Connecticut To Give Its Electoral College Votes To National Popular Vote Victor

Connecticut voted to give its Electoral College Votes to the national popular vote victor. The state Senate voted 21-14 on Saturday to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, which includes 10 states and the District of Columbia. The state House passed the measure last week, 77 to 73. California, Hawaii, Illinois, Massachusetts, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington and the District of Columbia have already signed the accord.

This might give the Corrupt Democratic Party permanent control.
With permanent control the Corrupt Democrats will be able ignore the laws and the constitution and nobody could stop them. What do you think will happen to America if the Democrats are undefeatable?

Based on this move, Democrats clearly believe in a raw, up or down vote. What happens if a concentration of conservatives in a state or local region have a popular vote that says prayers must be said before school starts? Majority rules!!! ...... and Democrats will tell you day and night that they are for the "little guy".

 

[eagle7_31]

If the 2016 results were in reverse, Trump winning the popular vote the Hildebeast winning the EC the sore loser demrats would not be having their meltdown,

While there has certainly seemed to be a push for changing to a popular vote since the last election, this interstate compact was proposed years before now. In fact, while there are 11 states and DC that have agreed to the compact, Connecticut is the first to do so since the most recent election.

Connecticut OKs Measure to Join Effort to Bypass Electoral College

I agree there have been attempts to change the EC off and on over the years, but the decibel level by the left from 2016 results have very high to say the least since they hated the end result,

Once AGAIN this initiative was under way way before 2016.

I understand that. What I am saying its taken a new and very emotional push because of the left's hating Trump. And if the results were reversed as I stated before the movement would not have near the same urgency,

 

[Pogo]

Really. What FEC rule would this be?

In fact, states are not required to hold an election at all. All they have to do is choose electors, and how they choose said electors is entirely up to that state. Show us how that's not the case.

Presumably you've already been in court on the same complaint every time your state gave its entire electoral vote to a candy you voted against then, correct? Good for you, hope you get results someday..

There presumably some limits to how undemocratic a States Elector selection can be.

Article 4, Section 4, Clause 1 guarantees a Republican form of government for each State, and if you add the whole 14th amendment thing, i doubt the governor could just pick electors whilly nilly.

Still the State does have some latitude, just not enough latitude, in my opinion, to select their electors based on mostly the votes of people outside the State.

I'd be curious to see how the SCOTUS would rule on the issue.

Article 4 Section 4 guarantees each state a Republican form of government. That is in no way harmed by having EC electors not voted on; the government is still representational and has a chief of state which is not a king. Add in the explicit choice given to state legislatures in how electors are chosen, and I don't know if there's any ground to prevent a state from doing just about whatever they want to choose electors, so long as the legislature makes the decision in accordance with that state's laws.

With the 14th amendment, while people (men, specifically, but I would think women also are included now) are guaranteed the right to vote at any election of presidential or vice presidential electors, I think that if the legislature gets rid of elections, that becomes moot.

I can't see any state legislature doing away with some form of voting being the way electors are chosen, but they do seem to have that right per the Constitution.

If you had the legislators directly selecting electors, you might be able to get away with it, but by signing legislation like this you are taking your own votes and diluting them with votes outside the state, thus basically making any of your votes moot.

Someone else deciding the outcome of your own election is decidedly un-republican.

again, switch "the popular vote winner" with "the candidate from party X" and you see how pretty daft the whole concept is.

And again at the risk of noting the same thing over and over to deaf ears, diluting votes with other contrary votes is ALREADY THE WAY IT'S DONE every time your state or mine or anybody else's goes to Congress and tells the lie that literally everybody in that state voted for the Red or Blue candidate, because that kind of unanimous vote has never happened anywhere ever. So the un-republicanism is not only already here, it has a way long and shoddy history.

There's no reason for any voter in any locked-red or locked-blue state to go vote at all. They can vote with their state, vote against their state, vote for some third party or stay home and play sudoku and all four produce exactly the same result. So it's a bit late to be suddenly stat noticing what's been there the whole time. Or else a bit selective.

Again, you're being obtuse.

No one is telling Congress that "literally everybody in the state voted for this candidate". No one thinks that, either.

Obviously no one actually believes that, including those who claim it.

But that's exactly what my state, and 48 others, did in the last election, and the one before that, and the one before that, etc etc ad infinitum. Yet no state's election, anywhere, at any time, has ever been unanimous. That's a fact.

Obviously they didn't use my wording. I paraphrase, but I do so to demonstrate the preposterity therein. To utter such would be absurd, and they don't utter such. Yet they DO it, and it's no less absurd to do it than to utter it.

Follow me?

All that happens now is really what the EC-ignorant claim to want, except on a smaller scale: a popular vote where the person with the most votes takes the prize. The only difference is that it happens at the state level instead of nationally, and the prize is the slate of Electors, instead of the Presidency. So why is that "fair" and "democratic" on a national level, but "disenfranchising voters" and "making votes count less" on a state level?

When I go to vote, I don't vote on the basis of "who's probably going to win". I vote on the basis of "who is the best choice". And when that choice differs from my state's, it means my vote was tossed in the trash. And when that choice agrees with my state's, it means somebody else's votes were tossed in the trash.

What seems fair to me (and too ******* bad if "fair" is a kindergarten term to you but it's how courts work so feel free to walk into a courtroom tomorrow and tell them how they're in kindergarten) is that NOBODY's vote should be tossed in the trash. Not even Californians or Massachusettsians who voted for Rump. They all got tossed too.

By the way for somebody who admits not knowing how the Electoral College is set up, you're kinda going out on a limb here with the phrase "EC-ignorant".

And if you think voting in a state where you're the minority is an exercise in futility, just think how utterly meaningless it's going to become to every part of the country that isn't California and New York if this bullshit "pact" is allowed to stand. Every person who isn't a coastal leftist might as well just lock on a slave collar and slap some duct tape on their mouths, and get to pickin' the Democrat cotton, because we won't exist as citizens in any substantial way.

What makes you think this pact favors "Democrats"? Had Rump won the popular vote in 2016 for an example, and this pact were in full effect, Connecticut would have had to vote for Rump.

 

[Pogo]

Connecticut To Give Its Electoral College Votes To National Popular Vote Victor

Connecticut voted to give its Electoral College Votes to the national popular vote victor. The state Senate voted 21-14 on Saturday to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, which includes 10 states and the District of Columbia. The state House passed the measure last week, 77 to 73. California, Hawaii, Illinois, Massachusetts, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington and the District of Columbia have already signed the accord.

This might give the Corrupt Democratic Party permanent control.
With permanent control the Corrupt Democrats will be able ignore the laws and the constitution and nobody could stop them. What do you think will happen to America if the Democrats are undefeatable?

Based on this move, Democrats clearly believe in a raw, up or down vote. What happens if a concentration of conservatives in a state or local region have a popular vote that says prayers must be said before school starts? Majority rules!!! ...... and Democrats will tell you day and night that they are for the "little guy".

Once AGAIN this is the legislatures of various states contemplating this --- not "Democrats". You have to understand that USMB thread titles are not subject to vetting or any kind of accuracy standard.

Those state legislatures would be the same entities by the way that are charged by the Constitution of the United States to select their electors ---- however they see fit to do so.

 

[Pogo]

Looks like your system may not be EC anymore, allowing a perpetual government based on the whims of California and New York I suppose.

Insane how one loss to an Outsider and some want to change what has worked for you since forever...

Blue states rally to upend Electoral College, with addition of Connecticut

Connecticut is joining a growing alliance of liberal states in a "pact" that would supposedly allow them to change the way presidents are picked -- by allocating each state's electoral votes to the winner of the national popular vote.

The uphill campaign, which if ever brought to fruition would almost certainly face a court challenge, has gained renewed attention amid Democratic grumbling about the Electoral College in the wake of President Trump's 2016 win. While he defeated Hillary Clinton in the electoral vote, he lost the popular vote by 2.9 million ballots.

Enter the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, which blue states are joining to commit to allocating their electoral votes to the national popular-vote winner -- regardless of their own state results.

The pact is meant to be a work-around to the constitutional requirements that created the Electoral College system, which awards each state's electors to the winner of that state.

In theory, the game-changing compact would take effect once it signs on states representing at least 270 electoral votes, the threshold to win the presidency. With the expected addition of Connecticut's seven electoral votes, the group now has 172.

Here's the ironical twist you're not getting --- there's no such thing as a "blue state". Nor a "red state". Both of those are artificial terms created by the uniquely rotting WTA (winner take all) system on which the Electoral College operates, meaning if a POTUS candidate gets 33.4% of a states' votes in a three-way race, then that state sends 100% of its votes to that candidate and zero to anybody else. If that winning candidate happens to be a Republican, then for the purpose of election-tallying it's called a "red" state, to denote where that state's Electoral Votes are (presumably) going.

But voters don't vote that way. No state anywhere in any year has ever voted for anyone unanimously. Therein lies the lie we live. You'd never know it from counting Electoral Votes or the fake "red' and "blue" state hysteria, but there are Californians and New Yorkers who voted for Rump, just as there are Utahans and West Virginians who voted for Clinton. All of them had their votes ripped up, set on fire and spat on.

Bottom line is that, were it not for the ludicrous WTA system, the terms "red state" and "blue state" would not exist, nor would "battleground state" which means it could go either way. These are all artificial constructs oozing out from an artificial system that got started for no legitimate reason that even the chief architect of the Electoral College itself wanted to see abolished. And as evidenced throughout this thread, these fake distinctions serve to divide the country against itself just as the Civil War did.

As for the 'certain court challenge', it could be challenged but it couldn't be challenged successfully, since our sterling Constitution only prescribes that the several states send X number of Electors --- how they choose those Electors is entirely up to the state. That state could if it wished apportion its electors to reflect its election, but it's not even required to HAVE an election. Or it could do what this compact calls for. Or it could consult a numerologist. Whatever they want.

 

[Pogo]

If the 2016 results were in reverse, Trump winning the popular vote the Hildebeast winning the EC the sore loser demrats would not be having their meltdown,

While there has certainly seemed to be a push for changing to a popular vote since the last election, this interstate compact was proposed years before now. In fact, while there are 11 states and DC that have agreed to the compact, Connecticut is the first to do so since the most recent election.

Connecticut OKs Measure to Join Effort to Bypass Electoral College

I agree there have been attempts to change the EC off and on over the years, but the decibel level by the left from 2016 results have very high to say the least since they hated the end result,

Once AGAIN this initiative was under way way before 2016.

I understand that. What I am saying its taken a new and very emotional push because of the left's hating Trump. And if the results were reversed as I stated before the movement would not have near the same urgency,

Apparently you don't understand that, because this plan has been active for at least twelve years. The only thing new with this thread is (a) another state joined it recently, and (b) there walk among us those who have never heard of it before.

And again --- this is states taking this position --- not "the left". NOR does it have anything to do with Rump, who at the time this initiative started was on a bus looking for Tic Tacs and his whiny tweets about how the Electoral College is a joke and we should have a revolution lay years in the future.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

One more time, the reason for the electoral college is so that every state in the union gets equal representation when it comes to federal elections.

Then it's a failure. An Electoral Vote from Wyoming represents 143,000 people, while one from Florida represents more than three times that. Or to put it more meaningfully, a vote from Florida is worth about 30% of a vote from Wyoming.

To put it more meaningfully, if I hire you and give you a choice of being paid a value of 100 dollars or 100 Polish Zlotys, (a Zloty being worth 28 US cents) --- would you have a preference or would you claim they're "equal" because either way it's "a hundred'?

Here's a map to illustrate (from this page):

​

Illustrated thusly, now the truth comes out --- while these whiny wags wail about "New York and California deciding elections", it's actually the opposite going on. They're already being diluted.

An Electoral Vote from Wyoming represents 143,000 people, while one from Florida represents more than three times that.

Incorrect!!!
Wyoming's population is about 595,000. 595,000 citizens per House seat
Florida's population is about 20,464,000. 757,926 citizens per House seat.


757,926 / 595,000 = 1.27
Not 3.
And if they only counted citizens, instead of residents, it would be even lower than 1.27

 

[oreo]

I think that's great. next election when Trump wins the popular vote, they will have to give him their delegates.

Personally, I don't think Trump is going to make it to the next election. Go to this link on this board, and scroll down to post # 56. There you can read one article, watch 2 FOX NEWS video's and another video with Trump admitting to Obstruction of Justice on National T.V.
It’s Russia, Russia, Russia

Then a good book to read:

Very well written, easy to follow & hard to put down.
Top seller on Amazon today.

 

[Rustic]

Looks like your system may not be EC anymore, allowing a perpetual government based on the whims of California and New York I suppose.

Insane how one loss to an Outsider and some want to change what has worked for you since forever...

Blue states rally to upend Electoral College, with addition of Connecticut

Connecticut is joining a growing alliance of liberal states in a "pact" that would supposedly allow them to change the way presidents are picked -- by allocating each state's electoral votes to the winner of the national popular vote.

The uphill campaign, which if ever brought to fruition would almost certainly face a court challenge, has gained renewed attention amid Democratic grumbling about the Electoral College in the wake of President Trump's 2016 win. While he defeated Hillary Clinton in the electoral vote, he lost the popular vote by 2.9 million ballots.

Enter the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, which blue states are joining to commit to allocating their electoral votes to the national popular-vote winner -- regardless of their own state results.

The pact is meant to be a work-around to the constitutional requirements that created the Electoral College system, which awards each state's electors to the winner of that state.

In theory, the game-changing compact would take effect once it signs on states representing at least 270 electoral votes, the threshold to win the presidency. With the expected addition of Connecticut's seven electoral votes, the group now has 172.

Here's the ironical twist you're not getting --- there's no such thing as a "blue state". Nor a "red state". Both of those are artificial terms created by the uniquely rotting WTA (winner take all) system on which the Electoral College operates, meaning if a POTUS candidate gets 33.4% of a states' votes in a three-way race, then that state sends 100% of its votes to that candidate and zero to anybody else. If that winning candidate happens to be a Republican, then for the purpose of election-tallying it's called a "red" state, to denote where that state's Electoral Votes are (presumably) going.

But voters don't vote that way. No state anywhere in any year has ever voted for anyone unanimously. Therein lies the lie we live. You'd never know it from counting Electoral Votes or the fake "red' and "blue" state hysteria, but there are Californians and New Yorkers who voted for Rump, just as there are Utahans and West Virginians who voted for Clinton. All of them had their votes ripped up, set on fire and spat on.

Bottom line is that, were it not for the ludicrous WTA system, the terms "red state" and "blue state" would not exist, nor would "battleground state" which means it could go either way. These are all artificial constructs oozing out from an artificial system that got started for no legitimate reason that even the chief architect of the Electoral College itself wanted to see abolished. And as evidenced throughout this thread, these fake distinctions serve to divide the country against itself just as the Civil War did.

As for the 'certain court challenge', it could be challenged but it couldn't be challenged successfully, since our sterling Constitution only prescribes that the several states send X number of Electors --- how they choose those Electors is entirely up to the state. That state could if it wished apportion its electors to reflect its election, but it's not even required to HAVE an election. Or it could do what this compact calls for. Or it could consult a numerologist. Whatever they want.

The electoral college is the only say rural states have, a pure popular vote would be pointless...

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Connecticut To Give Its Electoral College Votes To National Popular Vote Victor

Connecticut voted to give its Electoral College Votes to the national popular vote victor. The state Senate voted 21-14 on Saturday to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, which includes 10 states and the District of Columbia. The state House passed the measure last week, 77 to 73. California, Hawaii, Illinois, Massachusetts, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington and the District of Columbia have already signed the accord.

This might give the Corrupt Democratic Party permanent control.
With permanent control the Corrupt Democrats will be able ignore the laws and the constitution and nobody could stop them. What do you think will happen to America if the Democrats are undefeatable?

******* New England. We should just send all those assholes back across the ocean.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Connecticut To Give Its Electoral College Votes To National Popular Vote Victor

Connecticut voted to give its Electoral College Votes to the national popular vote victor. The state Senate voted 21-14 on Saturday to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, which includes 10 states and the District of Columbia. The state House passed the measure last week, 77 to 73. California, Hawaii, Illinois, Massachusetts, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington and the District of Columbia have already signed the accord.

This might give the Corrupt Democratic Party permanent control.
With permanent control the Corrupt Democrats will be able ignore the laws and the constitution and nobody could stop them. What do you think will happen to America if the Democrats are undefeatable?

You mean the electoral college that sabotages WE THE PEOPLE from having their voices heard?

Tissue?

More of your bullshit.

When are you ever going to stop.

Lawyer my ass.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Connecticut To Give Its Electoral College Votes To National Popular Vote Victor

Connecticut voted to give its Electoral College Votes to the national popular vote victor. The state Senate voted 21-14 on Saturday to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, which includes 10 states and the District of Columbia. The state House passed the measure last week, 77 to 73. California, Hawaii, Illinois, Massachusetts, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington and the District of Columbia have already signed the accord.

This might give the Corrupt Democratic Party permanent control.
With permanent control the Corrupt Democrats will be able ignore the laws and the constitution and nobody could stop them. What do you think will happen to America if the Democrats are undefeatable?

Here's why this is a bad idea.

Texas, Oklahoma, Georgia, and Tennessee all agree to give their votes to the GOP, regardless of the state outcome, in perpetuity.

Electoral college, gerrymandering, voter suppression, vote theft - Its the only way the gop can win.

Why is the right so against their own country?

Why don't RWNJs just move to Russia?

The GOP has been winning governorships by gerrymandering ??????

Are you ******* drunk ?

 

[Rustic]

I think that's great. next election when Trump wins the popular vote, they will have to give him their delegates.

Personally, I don't think Trump is going to make it to the next election. Go to this link on this board, and scroll down to post # 56. There you can read one article, watch 2 FOX NEWS video's and another video with Trump admitting to Obstruction of Justice on National T.V.
It’s Russia, Russia, Russia

Then a good book to read:

Very well written, easy to follow & hard to put down.
Top seller on Amazon today.

David corn is an incompetent piece of shit... fake news

 

[oreo]

I think that's great. next election when Trump wins the popular vote, they will have to give him their delegates.

Personally, I don't think Trump is going to make it to the next election. Go to this link on this board, and scroll down to post # 56. There you can read one article, watch 2 FOX NEWS video's and another video with Trump admitting to Obstruction of Justice on National T.V.
It’s Russia, Russia, Russia

Then a good book to read:

Very well written, easy to follow & hard to put down.
Top seller on Amazon today.

David corn is an incompetent piece of shit... fake news

Is FOX NEWS also FAKE news? Are you afraid to watch those video's? Click on this link scroll down to post # 56. The Book (Russian Roulette) verifies the FOX NEWS video's.
It’s Russia, Russia, Russia

Then a very good article for you to read on how you have been brainwashed into believeing that all other news sources are FAKE news is right here.

An article you should spend the next 20 minutes reading so you never make the same mistake again.
Donald Trump broke the conservative media

Because of your loyalty to watching only right wing media, listening only to right wing talk show hosts, and only reading right wing web sites, FOX NEWS can get away with this. Because they know you'll be back for more.