NoNukes
Gold Member
About time for a step in the right direction. Your vote should mean something.
11 Democrat states have formed a pact to sabotage the Electoral College
- Thread starter TroglocratsRdumb
- Start date
Cecilie1200
Diamond Member
Dude, the American left has wanted to change the Electoral College, not to mention virtually everything else about our system of government, for a whole lot longer than just Trump's win.
Cecilie1200
Diamond Member
The fact that YOU don't like the results of the election doesn't make the Electoral System "broken". And the EC has nothing to do with slavery. Geez, buy a history book or something.
Rustic
Diamond Member
- Oct 3, 2015
- 58,769
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- #526
Yep, It’s all about control.
Healthcare is not about health care it’s all about control, because insurance is not healthcare.
Gun control has nothing to do with guns, it’s all about control.
And without the electoral college rural states have zero say on anything, because it’s all about control.
Just like political correctness has destroyed politics, comedy, sports and And now even the Boy Scouts...
- Banned
- #527
In 2000, Dubya became President thanks to the totally botched vote count of a state that was run by, you guessed it, HIS OWN ******* BROTHER (still not enough to win him the majority vote). Which led to 8 absolutely disastrous years. So yes, the EC was absolutely proven broken and obsolete in that election.
THEN Trump wins despite having millions and millions less votes, with aid from a campaign launched by the Russians meant to take advantage of, you guessed it again, our COMPLETELY BROKEN ELECTORAL SYSTEM.
As to slavery having nothing to do with it... oh you poor snowflake; I bet you think the demand that slaves be worth 3/5 of a person had nothing to do with the vote either
"There was one difficulty however of a serious nature attending an immediate choice by the people. The right of suffrage was much more diffusive in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of the Negroes. The substitution of electors obviated this difficulty and seemed on the whole to be liable to fewest objections." - James Madison
Rustic
Diamond Member
- Oct 3, 2015
- 58,769
- 5,906
- 1,940
- Banned
- #528
Quit being a *****, you ever get tired of being hung up on the election?In 2000, Dubya became President thanks to the totally botched vote count of a state that was run by, you guessed it, HIS OWN ******* BROTHER (still not enough to win him the majority vote). Which led to 8 absolutely disastrous years. So yes, the EC was absolutely proven broken and obsolete in that election.
THEN Trump wins despite having millions and millions less votes, with aid from a campaign launched by the Russians meant to take advantage of, you guessed it again, our COMPLETELY BROKEN ELECTORAL SYSTEM.
As to slavery having nothing to do with it... oh you poor snowflake; I bet you think the demand that slaves be worth 3/5 of a person had nothing to do with the vote either
"There was one difficulty however of a serious nature attending an immediate choice by the people. The right of suffrage was much more diffusive in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of the Negroes. The substitution of electors obviated this difficulty and seemed on the whole to be liable to fewest objections." - James Madison
- Banned
- #529
Yes, "shut up and take it." What an American value.
evenflow1969
Gold Member
It certainly is not going to help the dems any. Right wingers should pretty happy. It will make more republicans win. Pretty stupid if it is actually what they are planning.
When the individual States screw it up, time after time? Yeah... you bet'cha.
Wyatt earp
Diamond Member
- Apr 21, 2012
- 69,975
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In 2000, Dubya became President thanks to the totally botched vote count of a state that was run by, you guessed it, HIS OWN ******* BROTHER (still not enough to win him the majority vote). Which led to 8 absolutely disastrous years. So yes, the EC was absolutely proven broken and obsolete in that election.
THEN Trump wins despite having millions and millions less votes, with aid from a campaign launched by the Russians meant to take advantage of, you guessed it again, our COMPLETELY BROKEN ELECTORAL SYSTEM.
As to slavery having nothing to do with it... oh you poor snowflake; I bet you think the demand that slaves be worth 3/5 of a person had nothing to do with the vote either
"There was one difficulty however of a serious nature attending an immediate choice by the people. The right of suffrage was much more diffusive in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of the Negroes. The substitution of electors obviated this difficulty and seemed on the whole to be liable to fewest objections." - James Madison
With out the EC their would be no United States..
BluesLegend
Diamond Member
The SCOTUS will dish out a beating to these uppity blue states and they will run home to their momma's crying.
Timmy
Gold Member
- Oct 2, 2015
- 22,432
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- 290
Oh, I see. You're talking about apportionment; I thought you were saying something about illegals voting. Thanks for clarifying.
I am speaking of electoral votes. Democrat states get extra votes in the EC for the illegals they bring in.
Might want to recount those illegal filled states. Lots of red ones .
The EC's racist origins are another factoid we haven't even mentioned (in this thread anyway) but it's telling that:
(a) four of the first five POTUSes (and all of the first seven who got two terms) were slaveholders from the South, where EC numbers were inflated by being apportioned on the basis of 3/5 of slaves who had 0/5 of a vote;
(b) that the last election held before that country temporarily broke apart was won by a candidate who carried no Electoral Votes in the South and wasn't even on ballots there, triggering the aforesaid split. Once that split was resolved of course, that infamous Three-Fifths Compromise and its representation without franchise, was obliterated;
and (c) that the same lame biased-representation the Old South wangled its way into via the Electrical College is the same scheme the latter-day EC apologists are going for when they trot out these ludicrous fantasies of "Noo Yawk and California determining elections" and "mob rule".
Apparently Boobfreek hasn't been informed of the Seventeenth Amendment yet.
The state could do away with any presidential elections and just use the results from the rest of the country.
It also might be argued that the voters are not being disenfranchised, as their votes are counting equally with every other voter in the country. I'm not sure if that would work or not since it's the state electors in question.
There's also the argument that the winner-take-all system of assigning electors already disenfranchises many voters.
Electors have not always been chosen by voters within a state, so there is precedent as well as the text of Article 2 Section 1.
I don't think any of that is the case.
I'm far from being an expert on the sometimes-Byzantine and arcane laws regarding the Electoral College, particularly since every state has its own laws regarding it. I don't think any of them currently allow for simply doing away with holding an election, and I think if they tried to change the law to do away with holding the election in their state, you'd be able to hear the explosion from outer space.
I don't think for a second that rank-and-file voters are going to buy the idea that "this is what everyone's doing, so we're gonna follow them, and THAT'S your vote counting". Pretty much anything other than actually casting an individual ballot and feeling like it's reflected somewhere is not gonna fly.
If THIS bullshit stands, it's only going to be a testament to how much work the left has put into brainwashing people into believing a crapload of lies about what our system is, how it works, and what it's supposed to be and how it's supposed to work. Just the frenzy about " national popular vote", as if that's a real, meaningful thing tells us that.
Once again, the left might be able to snow people into believing "this makes your vote REALLY count" for maybe an election or two, but the first time their state's Electoral votes go to someone who did NOT win the most votes IN THEIR STATE, the shit is going to hit the fan.
Again, nothing --- absolutely nothing --- in the Constitution in any way requires an election (by the people) for President. Such does not exist. The POTUS of course is elected by the EC, and again nothing in the Constitution prescribes how Electors are chosen. States hold elections out of the same momentum that they use the WTA system --- "because everybody else is doing it". But they're not in any way Constitutionally required to hold anything. And many an Elector went and cast a state's vote for POTUS with no election having happened at all.
And by the same token once those Electors meet, they can vote for whoever they want, election or no election. This isn't a "left" or "right" thing; it's how the Constitution is set up.
It may be a poor concept, but that doesn't mean it isn't Constitutionally acceptable.
I wouldn't want to hang my hopes on how the Supreme Court defines "Republican." That's a much less clear argument when compared to the more well-defined rules for how electors are chosen.
I just can't imagine that "Our Electoral votes will go to whoever wins in other states" over "Our Electoral votes will go to whoever wins in OUR state" is gonna fly. However good it might sound to short-sighted leftists in those states right now, because all they can see is "Woo hoo, we can stick it to Trump", it's eventually going to dawn on them that they've completely invalidated their own state's elections for all practical purposes.
Ultimately, though, it might have a positive effect by way of waking people up to WHY states are supposed to be sovereign and not merely provincial subjects to an imperial national government.
This movement was started way before Rump. It was triggered not by a contemporary demagogue but by the ridicularity of the WTA system, which has been criticized for its flaws for literally centuries. As noted already, James Madison himself, one of the primary architects of the EC, advocated for a Constitutional Amendment that would ban the practice of WTA -- even though his own state of Virginia, the largest Electoral pot at the time, would have suffered.
The present story is simply about another state, Connecticut in this case, joining the movement. But we've posted about it on this site in the past, and elsewhere.
I know the butthurt Rumpbots on this site, of which I'm pleased to note you are not one, love to try to pretend it's about Rump, but speaking of the orange fizz:
It may be a poor concept, but that doesn't mean it isn't Constitutionally acceptable.
I wouldn't want to hang my hopes on how the Supreme Court defines "Republican." That's a much less clear argument when compared to the more well-defined rules for how electors are chosen.
I just can't imagine that "Our Electoral votes will go to whoever wins in other states" over "Our Electoral votes will go to whoever wins in OUR state" is gonna fly. However good it might sound to short-sighted leftists in those states right now, because all they can see is "Woo hoo, we can stick it to Trump", it's eventually going to dawn on them that they've completely invalidated their own state's elections for all practical purposes.
Ultimately, though, it might have a positive effect by way of waking people up to WHY states are supposed to be sovereign and not merely provincial subjects to an imperial national government.
This movement was started way before Rump. It was triggered not by a contemporary demagogue but by the ridicularity of the WTA system, which has been criticized for its flaws for literally centuries. As noted already, James Madison himself, one of the primary architects of the EC, advocated for a Constitutional Amendment that would ban the practice of WTA -- even though his own state of Virginia, the largest Electoral pot at the time, would have suffered.
The present story is simply about another state, Connecticut in this case, joining the movement. But we've posted about it on this site in the past, and elsewhere.
If the 2016 results were in reverse, Trump winning the popular vote the Hildebeast winning the EC the sore loser demrats would not be having their meltdown,
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