10 Pillars of Communism

[KMAN]

Funny how communism used to be seen as evil...

Number 2, 5, 10 and 6 sound pretty familiar especially if the fairness doctrine goes in...

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

 

[Diuretic]

And you got this from....?

 

[WillowTree]

yep! looks like we are well on the way. from the individual to the collective..

 

[Agnapostate]

Those are the ten reforms set out in the Communist Manifesto by Marx and Engels. By themselves, they do not constitute a communist society, and many other non-Marxist socialists (anarchists, for instance), would argue that state ownership of the means of production does not even constitute a socialist economic framework. Number 2 is also mistranslated in that the Manifesto does not call for an "income" tax.

To me, continued postings of this indicate a continued ignorance of Marx and Engels, and indeed a continued ignorance of any socialist political philosophy.

 

[xsited1]

And you got this from....?

Ever heard of Karl Marx?

 

[Diuretic]

Vaguely

We share the same birthday (different years though)*

My point was to look at the claim in the statement by KMAN and get it into some sort of context. Agna's done that so no point in me pursuing it.


*and Kierkegaard

 

[Agnapostate]

Ah. Ever read Fear and Trembling?

 

[Diuretic]

Ah. Ever read Fear and Trembling?

Nope. But from the sound of it it's Kierkegaard eh? I know he had a terrible internal battle all his life with the idea of religion and his doubts and fears that produced, I think, his existentialism. I should go and look for that one. He was a fascinating character.

Sorry thread drift!

 

[Toro]

Vaguely

We share the same birthday (different years though)*

Same decade though, hahaha

Ah. Ever read Fear and Trembling?

I watched the movie. It was on Lifetime.

 

[Diuretic]

Vaguely

We share the same birthday (different years though)*

Same decade though, hahaha

....

Oi! Whippersnapper!

 

[AllieBaba]

Those are the ten reforms set out in the Communist Manifesto by Marx and Engels. By themselves, they do not constitute a communist society, and many other non-Marxist socialists (anarchists, for instance), would argue that state ownership of the means of production does not even constitute a socialist economic framework. Number 2 is also mistranslated in that the Manifesto does not call for an "income" tax.

To me, continued postings of this indicate a continued ignorance of Marx and Engels, and indeed a continued ignorance of any socialist political philosophy.

Lol. It's there in black and white. You really do think everyone else is really stupid, don't you?

Honestly, if you say the sky is green, we won't all believe you. Because we actually do have eyes in our heads to see the true color.

 

[Diuretic]

Reading the Communist Manifesto without reading other writings by both Marx and Engels is like thinking if you know the alphabet then you can confidently know every single word in the English language.

THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO

Marx and Engels Collected Works

As for the attempted linking of Obama with the Communist Manifesto, I'm just really glad I wasn't drinking any coffee at the time

 

[Diuretic]

yep! looks like we are well on the way. from the individual to the collective..

Collective...oh, like corporations?

 

[Toro]

Reading the Communist Manifesto without reading other writings by both Marx and Engels is like thinking if you know the alphabet then you can confidently know every single word in the English language.

THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO

Marx and Engels Collected Works

As for the attempted linking of Obama with the Communist Manifesto, I'm just really glad I wasn't drinking any coffee at the time

Its pretty funny, eh? I go from being appalled to amused.

 

[Tigerlils13]

First off, please forgive me if I have mistaken the spirit that the original post was published in. It was, most surely, not my intention, so please no harsh remarks if I have indeed made a mistake!

Let us all remember that the "idea" of Communism is an honorable one: everyone is equal. But, as Animal Farm showed, human nature leans towards believing that some are more equal than others, which is why Communism is beautiful on paper but monstrous in practice.
Let us also point out that history is just one progressive, liberal movement after another. If any thing, history does show that liberalism always wins in the very end. Considering this, it stands to reason that some liberal ideas might match with socialist ones. However, it is our job as American citizens to keep a healthy balance (yes, I did just use the word balance) between capitalism and equality. We cannot and must not forsake one for the other.

 

[Wolfmoon]

Now, there is strong talk about nationalizing the banks. When they begin they won't stop. The only thing holding them back is the Second Amendment. We have got to vote out all these politicians! OR all of us will suffer.

 

[Diuretic]

Nothng wrong with "communism", it's a natural human state, well, primitive communism anyway.

The communism that provoked Orwell to write about in Animal Farm was Stalinism and Stalinism had been preceeded by Leninism (which is where the application of Marxism in the Soviet Union went right off the rails).

Orwell knew it but the British Left, Orwell's contemporaries, pilloried him and would have none of it.

Orwell may have written Animal Farm as a response, I don't know, I just know the British Left condemned him for his putting down of the Soviet Union.

You have to understand that this was just after WWII when the Soviets had helped the Allies to win WWII by flogging the Germans something chronic. The Brit Left was full of misty-eyed praise for the brave patriots of the Great Soviet Union and of course Comrade General Secretary Stalin, za Stalina! Crap of course, he was a fucking psychopath running an immensely corrupt state and Orwell said so.

I don't think the ideas of Marx and Engels have been applied anywhere in history. So-called Marxists are usually despots and have little relation with Marxism.

 

[midcan5]

...Let us all remember that the "idea" of Communism is an honorable one: everyone is equal. But, as Animal Farm showed, human nature leans towards believing that some are more equal than others, which is why Communism is beautiful on paper but monstrous in practice.
Let us also point out that history is just one progressive, liberal movement after another. If any thing, history does show that liberalism always wins in the very end. Considering this, it stands to reason that some liberal ideas might match with socialist ones. However, it is our job as American citizens to keep a healthy balance (yes, I did just use the word balance) between capitalism and equality. We cannot and must not forsake one for the other.

That was nicely put, they are going to love you around here, be prepared. Welcome.

"Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." John Kenneth Galbraith

 

[Toro]

Now, there is strong talk about nationalizing the banks. When they begin they won't stop. The only thing holding them back is the Second Amendment.

I can guarantee you that when they are sitting around talking about whether or not they should nationalize the banks, they aren't worried about Timothy McVeigh wannabes.

 

[Agnapostate]

Lol. It's there in black and white. You really do think everyone else is really stupid, don't you?

Honestly, if you say the sky is green, we won't all believe you. Because we actually do have eyes in our heads to see the true color.

Posts such as this do little to prove anything other than that you have a profound ignorance of Marxism and socialism in general. Of course, I've attempted to test your knowledge by asking several questions about the respective ideologies, and you have failed to provide an answer.

Nothng wrong with "communism", it's a natural human state, well, primitive communism anyway.

The communism that provoked Orwell to write about in Animal Farm was Stalinism and Stalinism had been preceeded by Leninism (which is where the application of Marxism in the Soviet Union went right off the rails).

Orwell knew it but the British Left, Orwell's contemporaries, pilloried him and would have none of it.

Orwell may have written Animal Farm as a response, I don't know, I just know the British Left condemned him for his putting down of the Soviet Union.

You have to understand that this was just after WWII when the Soviets had helped the Allies to win WWII by flogging the Germans something chronic. The Brit Left was full of misty-eyed praise for the brave patriots of the Great Soviet Union and of course Comrade General Secretary Stalin, za Stalina! Crap of course, he was a fucking psychopath running an immensely corrupt state and Orwell said so.

I don't think the ideas of Marx and Engels have been applied anywhere in history. So-called Marxists are usually despots and have little relation with Marxism.

What's most entertaining is that Orwell is today mendaciously depicted as an "anti-socialist," despite the fact that he clearly supported libertarian socialism as applied in the anarchist collectives of Spain, as indicated by his service in the anti-Stalinist Workers' Party of Marxist Unification during the Spanish Civil War, and his writings in his Homage to Catalonia.

I had dropped more or less by chance into the only community of any size in Western Europe where political consciousness and disbelief in capitalism were more normal than their opposites. Up here in Aragon one was among tens of thousands of people, mainly though not entirely of working-class origin, all living at the same level and mingling on terms of equality. In theory it was perfect equality, and even in practice it was not far from it. There is a sense in which it would be true to say that one was experiencing a foretaste of Socialism, by which I mean that the prevailing mental atmosphere was that of Socialism. Many of the normal motives of civilized life--snobbishness, money-grubbing, fear of the boss, etc.--had simply ceased to exist. The ordinary class-division of society had disappeared to an extent that is almost unthinkable in the money-tainted air of England; there was no one there except the peasants and ourselves, and no one owned anyone else as his master.