Working with Anger and Hatred

[Sky Dancer]

I don't hate God. I don't hate Jesus. I hate what his followers do in his name.

I find it very difficult to condemn the followers, when there is really no Religion whose followers have a strong moral history to stand on. That's more a matter of human nature than anything else. However, I can hate a God (among the many) who claims to be loving and just and then does many of the things that He does, or at least allows them to happen.

Can't Buddhists forgive ?

I can't speak for Buddhists, not being one myself, but this Ecclectic Pagan doesn't do very well with Forgiveness. Especially when it comes to material slights and injuries.

It's harder to forgive than to hate but a lot easier to live with. Some people need their victimhood as it has become who they think they are.

You probably don't know this, but people who have been traumatized are called survivors, not victims. Trauma affects the brain, it interrrupts neural pathways forcing people to relive emotional memories that have been triggered by some present phenomena.

Was it your intention to use the word, 'victim' as a putdown, insult or weapon? I may not be remembering your background accurately but I thought you were a therapist. Is that how you think of your clients? As victims to be despised?

I get the feeling it was, but I may be wrong. Elaborate.

If you're using it as a insult, no problem. I'm working with patience today, the patience to bear with insults.

 

[dilloduck]

I find it very difficult to condemn the followers, when there is really no Religion whose followers have a strong moral history to stand on. That's more a matter of human nature than anything else. However, I can hate a God (among the many) who claims to be loving and just and then does many of the things that He does, or at least allows them to happen.



I can't speak for Buddhists, not being one myself, but this Ecclectic Pagan doesn't do very well with Forgiveness. Especially when it comes to material slights and injuries.

It's harder to forgive than to hate but a lot easier to live with. Some people need their victimhood as it has become who they think they are.

You probably don't know this, but people who have been traumatized are called survivors, not victims. Trauma affects the brain, it interrrupts neural pathways forcing people to relive emotional memories that have been triggered by some present phenomena.

Was it your intention to use the word, 'victim' as a putdown, insult or weapon? I may not be remembering your background accurately but I thought you were a therapist. Is that how you think of your clients? As victims to be despised?

I get the feeling it was, but I may be wrong. Elaborate.

If you're using it as a insult, no problem. I'm working with patience today, the patience to bear with insults.

Transactional Analysis: Drama Triangle Of Rescuer, Persecutor And Victim | Counselling Central

http://www.soulselfhelp.on.ca/karpmandramatriangle.pdf

http://www.melmenzies.co.uk/blog/20...nalysis_getting_off_the_drama_triangle_part_1

 

[Sky Dancer]

It's harder to forgive than to hate but a lot easier to live with. Some people need their victimhood as it has become who they think they are.

You probably don't know this, but people who have been traumatized are called survivors, not victims. Trauma affects the brain, it interrrupts neural pathways forcing people to relive emotional memories that have been triggered by some present phenomena.

Was it your intention to use the word, 'victim' as a putdown, insult or weapon? I may not be remembering your background accurately but I thought you were a therapist. Is that how you think of your clients? As victims to be despised?

I get the feeling it was, but I may be wrong. Elaborate.

If you're using it as a insult, no problem. I'm working with patience today, the patience to bear with insults.

Transactional Analysis: Drama Triangle Of Rescuer, Persecutor And Victim | Counselling Central

http://www.soulselfhelp.on.ca/karpmandramatriangle.pdf

I feel sorry for your clients. Please don't work with trauma survivors. Maybe there are some Christians who'd like to be beaten over the head by you.

 

[dilloduck]

You probably don't know this, but people who have been traumatized are called survivors, not victims. Trauma affects the brain, it interrrupts neural pathways forcing people to relive emotional memories that have been triggered by some present phenomena.

Was it your intention to use the word, 'victim' as a putdown, insult or weapon? I may not be remembering your background accurately but I thought you were a therapist. Is that how you think of your clients? As victims to be despised?

I get the feeling it was, but I may be wrong. Elaborate.

If you're using it as a insult, no problem. I'm working with patience today, the patience to bear with insults.

Transactional Analysis: Drama Triangle Of Rescuer, Persecutor And Victim | Counselling Central

http://www.soulselfhelp.on.ca/karpmandramatriangle.pdf

I feel sorry for your clients. Please don't work with trauma survivors. Maybe there are some Christians who'd like to be beaten over the head by you.

Pity is the last thing they need.

 

[Anachronism]

How wonderful it is to talk to another human being who struggles with hurt and anger.

Everyone else around here is so holy.

That's not an uncommon thing to find, Sky. So many people are willing to just go with the crowd and accept things that they truly almost enter a state of non-thought, where what they actually experience is secondary to what they're told they should or can experience.

In 1992 I encountered a ghost in the dormitory that I was living in at the time. I was with another individual who was devoutly Christian. To this day he refuses to accept what we saw in that hallway, because it doesn't fit in with his religious beliefs. All too often people do the same thing with their philosophies.

I think the fact that you hate God means you still believe in him. Otherwise, what would there be to hate? I don't believe in God, not a bit.

I have experienced timeless awareness, and spacious presence.

I believe in the Christian God. I believe that HE is one of the many faces/facets that humanity has put on the Almighty Power of the Universe. I believe just as fervently in Thor, Odin, Zeus, The Goddess & Her Consort, Osiris, The Great Spirit, Aphrodite, etc.... as other facets/faces of that same power.

It's harder to forgive than to hate but a lot easier to live with. Some people need their victimhood as it has become who they think they are.

I have had absolutely no problem living with this anger and hatred for almost 37 years. Some of those around me don't terribly care for it, but personally I have no problem with it.

As for being a Victim.... I am who and what I am. I take my revenge when necessary and leave that for Powers greater than me when I cannot. That's just life.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Transactional Analysis: Drama Triangle Of Rescuer, Persecutor And Victim | Counselling Central

http://www.soulselfhelp.on.ca/karpmandramatriangle.pdf

I feel sorry for your clients. Please don't work with trauma survivors. Maybe there are some Christians who'd like to be beaten over the head by you.

Pity is the last thing they need.

I agree. Pity is the last thing they need. They don't need harsh judgment either. They need compassion, warmth, genuineness, skillful means, presence, interested curiosity.

Perhaps, it's your method to 'slap them around' psychologically. That's the last thing in the world a trauma survivor needs.

 

[AllieBaba]

The strong negative emotions are irrational. I don't understand them, never blessed with having them.... But you must combat them. They lead to ruin.

At least you have publicly admitted the hatred.... That's a good first step. Most never do, and it just rots them from inside like a cancer.

I can only speak for myself, but I have to say that if it hadn't been for Anger and Hatred, I would probably not have gotten anywhere near what I have achieved in the nearly 37 years that I've been alive. I definitely would not have gotten through the last 10 years.

But at what cost?

Sometimes what we want and what we strive for isn't what is best for us or others. If you need anger to succeed it might be time to re-evaluate what success means to you.

Incidentally, 27-37 are definitely *angry* years for a lot of people. It's when you leave childhood behind but are still dealing with those issues and it can generate a lot of anger. It's really important to face that and decide how you want to be as you age..joyfulness is its own reward. Angry people are typically very, very unhappy people, and the older they get the unhappier they are.

 

[dilloduck]

I feel sorry for your clients. Please don't work with trauma survivors. Maybe there are some Christians who'd like to be beaten over the head by you.

Pity is the last thing they need.

I agree. Pity is the last thing they need. They don't need harsh judgment either. They need compassion, warmth, genuineness, skillful means, presence, interested curiosity.

Perhaps, it's your method to 'slap them around' psychologically. That's the last thing in the world a trauma survivor needs.

You have no clue as to how I actually would work with a client yet you assume my method would to slap them around. How did you come to that conclusion? The links I provided or do you automatically assume people that aren't victims to be persecutors?

 

[AllieBaba]

I feel sorry for your clients. Please don't work with trauma survivors. Maybe there are some Christians who'd like to be beaten over the head by you.

Pity is the last thing they need.

le
I agree. Pity is the last thing they need. They don't need harsh judgment either. They need compassion, warmth, genuineness, skillful means, presence, interested curiosity.

Perhaps, it's your method to 'slap them around' psychologically. That's the last thing in the world a trauma survivor needs.

Yeah, let the lying, hypocritical, volunteer *counselor* advise the paid professionals about counseling.

Brilliant.

Dillo, I'm sure you actually know what you're doing. Again Sky proves she's hypocritical...while expressing her disdain for people who are judgemental, she expresses her judgement of you.

What a whack job.

 

[AllieBaba]

You probably don't know this, but people who have been traumatized are called survivors, not victims. Trauma affects the brain, it interrrupts neural pathways forcing people to relive emotional memories that have been triggered by some present phenomena.

Was it your intention to use the word, 'victim' as a putdown, insult or weapon? I may not be remembering your background accurately but I thought you were a therapist. Is that how you think of your clients? As victims to be despised?

I get the feeling it was, but I may be wrong. Elaborate.

If you're using it as a insult, no problem. I'm working with patience today, the patience to bear with insults.

Transactional Analysis: Drama Triangle Of Rescuer, Persecutor And Victim | Counselling Central

http://www.soulselfhelp.on.ca/karpmandramatriangle.pdf

I feel sorry for your clients. Please don't work with trauma survivors. Maybe there are some Christians who'd like to be beaten over the head by you.

And we all know how you don't hate Christians, you jackass. Your love for them is evident right there.

 

[Anachronism]

But at what cost?

At the cost of nothing that has actually meant anything to me.

Sometimes what we want and what we strive for isn't what is best for us or others. If you need anger to succeed it might be time to re-evaluate what success means to you.

To me success is being the one standing up smiling, rather than the one lying on the ground with a bloody nose, crying like a little girl. I finally learned that difference in junior high school when I got so made one day that without even thinking about it, I reached back and slugged another student in the face after a repeated verbal assault from the individual. All of the sudden HE was the one on the ground, crying and bleeding instead of me being the one who was upset and bleeding on the inside. It felt GOOD to be the one who WON for a change. It taught me a very important lesson.

Incidentally, 27-37 are definitely *angry* years for a lot of people. It's when you leave childhood behind but are still dealing with those issues and it can generate a lot of anger. It's really important to face that and decide how you want to be as you age..joyfulness is its own reward. Angry people are typically very, very unhappy people, and the older they get the unhappier they are.

Joy, happiness, and pleasure are three things I don't see or experience a whole lot of in my life. Never have been. That's probably why I found the spiritual path that I did.... one that does not consider them to be important but rather places emphasis on doing what's Right and Proper as a means to achieve our Eternal Reward.

 

[AllieBaba]

BTW, one of the most effective ways to get a trauma VICTIM to open up is to use a very confrontational approach. Because some of them are very evasive, and not only does it affect them, it affects everyone around them. This isn't to say they aren't justified in their evasion but sometimes it takes a real confrontation for them to get their cards on the table so they can cope with them and get on with their lives.

I've seen this time and again in treatment. Sky's an idiot to poo-pooh it and it just reinforces my gut feeling that she's a hack who's primary purpose as a *volunteer counselor* isn't to counsel but to indoctrinate people into whatever cult she's promoting.

 

[Two Thumbs]

I hear you. I can't say my hatred looks much like wisdom. There's a reason all the Christians on this message board hate me. I HATE ALL OF THEM!

I TRY to reserve my hatred for individuals for the most part, or for groups that have truly shown me that the vast majority of the group has nothing to offer, rather than just its fringe elements.

To that end I have an amount of hatred for the Christian GOD, but not so much for those who chose to follow Him.

I don't hate God. I don't hate Jesus. I hate what his followers do in his name.

So you hate the Red Cross, the Salvation Army, all the charity work that is done world wide?

Ignorance is not bliss, it's just ignorance.

 

[AllieBaba]

But at what cost?

At the cost of nothing that has actually meant anything to me.

Sometimes what we want and what we strive for isn't what is best for us or others. If you need anger to succeed it might be time to re-evaluate what success means to you.

To me success is being the one standing up smiling, rather than the one lying on the ground with a bloody nose, crying like a little girl. I finally learned that difference in junior high school when I got so made one day that without even thinking about it, I reached back and slugged another student in the face after a repeated verbal assault from the individual. All of the sudden HE was the one on the ground, crying and bleeding instead of me being the one who was upset and bleeding on the inside. It felt GOOD to be the one who WON for a change. It taught me a very important lesson.

Incidentally, 27-37 are definitely *angry* years for a lot of people. It's when you leave childhood behind but are still dealing with those issues and it can generate a lot of anger. It's really important to face that and decide how you want to be as you age..joyfulness is its own reward. Angry people are typically very, very unhappy people, and the older they get the unhappier they are.

Joy, happiness, and pleasure are three things I don't see or experience a whole lot of in my life. Never have been. That's probably why I found the spiritual path that I did.... one that does not consider them to be important but rather places emphasis on doing what's Right and Proper as a means to achieve our Eternal Reward.

Oh I forgot, you're the freak. You and Sky are a good match. It's a shame for you she's already taken.

 

[Anachronism]

Oh I forgot, you're the freak.

Yep. I'm the Freak and you're part of the society that made me into one. Hope your Soul/Karma can live with that until Judgement Day.

You and Sky are a good match. It's a shame for you she's already taken.

While we have some ideas in common, I'm not sure how a Buddhist would do with a gun-owner, CCW holder, and someone who practices Western (medieval) martial arts as his main hobbies.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I TRY to reserve my hatred for individuals for the most part, or for groups that have truly shown me that the vast majority of the group has nothing to offer, rather than just its fringe elements.

To that end I have an amount of hatred for the Christian GOD, but not so much for those who chose to follow Him.

I don't hate God. I don't hate Jesus. I hate what his followers do in his name.

So you hate the Red Cross, the Salvation Army, all the charity work that is done world wide?

Ignorance is not bliss, it's just ignorance.

Call me a hater. It's true. I hate Christians. Big ones, little ones, fat ones, skinny ones, old ones, young ones. etc etc etc.

No, I don't hate the Red Cross or the Salvation Army. If you want me to, I could add them to my list.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Oh I forgot, you're the freak.

Yep. I'm the Freak and you're part of the society that made me into one. Hope your Soul/Karma can live with that until Judgement Day.

You and Sky are a good match. It's a shame for you she's already taken.

While we have some ideas in common, I'm not sure how a Buddhist would do with a gun-owner, CCW holder, and someone who practices Western (medieval) martial arts as his main hobbies.

A gun owner? That's a push for me, lol.

Truth is, Allie doesn't want me to have any friends, so she's attacking you. She seeks to isolate me on the messageboards.

It's kind of DV tactic, actually.

 

[AllieBaba]

Lol..you are such a professional victim, nutter.

I seek to isolate you..that's a new lie! Congrats, I didn't think there were any you hadn't covered already.

 

[Anachronism]

A gun owner? That's a push for me, lol.

More than just a gun owner. I practice/train in self-defense scenarios. I carry a handgun (and other self-defense tools) as a matter of my daily life. I would have no problem using them on another human being if properly provoked to do so.

Truth is, Allie doesn't want me to have any friends, so she's attacking you. She seeks to isolate me on the messageboards.

It's kind of DV tactic, actually.

I think this may be a situation where we have a common nemesis, Sky. She doesn't like me either, so I would guess that means we're likely to get along pretty well.

 

[Sky Dancer]

BTW, one of the most effective ways to get a trauma VICTIM to open up is to use a very confrontational approach. Because some of them are very evasive, and not only does it affect them, it affects everyone around them. This isn't to say they aren't justified in their evasion but sometimes it takes a real confrontation for them to get their cards on the table so they can cope with them and get on with their lives.

I've seen this time and again in treatment. Sky's an idiot to poo-pooh it and it just reinforces my gut feeling that she's a hack who's primary purpose as a *volunteer counselor* isn't to counsel but to indoctrinate people into whatever cult she's promoting.

Actually, one of the best ways to get a trauma survivor to open up is to be kind. You think of the person like an injured animal you've come across in the woods. You don't use a confrontational loud shouting approach at all. You're very gentle, and quiet, relaxed and spacious. Traumatized people are easily startled. They're wounded.

You're indirect. You don't stare. You don't act aggressively. You sit with your heart open and your loving arms available and when you touch the animal, you do so gently.

Your gut feeling is your gut feeling.

If you want to think I'm the devil incarnate, go right ahead. I have great respect for the way you teach me to be patient.