Women say some rape victims should take blame - survey (UK)

[California Girl]

Dogbert should be pleased that we got the thread back on topic

Women are better at that than men. But then, we're better at most things than men.

 

[goldcatt]

So that is the mindset that women are expected to have everytime they even start to make out with a guy?? Beware ladies, men are dangerous brutes and we must always be on guard and not give into temptation, or else be labeled "reckless". Ugh.

Ah now, come on. That's not what she's saying.

Yeah, I guess I am just frustrated because I believe in personal responsibility as well, but sometimes you want a moment to be able to just let go and give in without fear. I don't know if that makes sense.

It makes perfect sense. Who doesn't want that?

That's where choosing your partner wisely and well comes into play, IMO. If you're in bed with somebody and have any fear, you probably aren't with the right man. Or at least, you don't know him well enough. Maybe I'm just old fashioned that way, but if I feel like I have to have my defenses up the whole time it just isn't really worth doing.

 

[Modbert]

Dogbert should be pleased that we got the thread back on topic

I am, and rep to you all. Even if I disagree with you.

 

[goldcatt]

Dogbert should be pleased that we got the thread back on topic

I am, and rep to you all. Even if I disagree with you.

So what are your thoughts, Doggie? Now that the ladies have spoken.

 

[Modbert]

So what are your thoughts, Doggie? Now that the ladies have spoken.

Well I haven't had a chance to read every post. But I do generally agree with what I believe you, Emma, and CG are saying since you three seem to be agree.

I have to respectfully disagree with Contessa on this one as well.

The whole issue of rape is a difficult one for me to decide upon in certain areas, such as punishment. I mean, it's so difficult now to look at the various degrees and know for sure the guy did it. Especially when you hear a new story every other day of a girl crying wolf.

Though every time a girl does cry wolf, she hurts not only herself but her entire gender. I mean that's like taking a entire step back. Because now people are going to not believe as much if you ever do come forward with a real accusation.

I can say one thing though. Even though legally, anyone with alcohol in their system cannot give consent, I feel that if both parties are drunk out of their minds then it's not rape either.

 

[goldcatt]

So what are your thoughts, Doggie? Now that the ladies have spoken.

Well I haven't had a chance to read every post. But I do generally agree with what I believe you, Emma, and CG are saying since you three seem to be agree.

I have to respectfully disagree with Contessa on this one as well.

The whole issue of rape is a difficult one for me to decide upon in certain areas, such as punishment. I mean, it's so difficult now to look at the various degrees and know for sure the guy did it. Especially when you hear a new story every other day of a girl crying wolf.

Though every time a girl does cry wolf, she hurts not only herself but her entire gender. I mean that's like taking a entire step back. Because now people are going to not believe as much if you ever do come forward with a real accusation.

I can say one thing though. Even though legally, anyone with alcohol in their system cannot give consent, I feel that if both parties are drunk out of their minds then it's not rape either.

Abso-fucking-lutely.

I'm not sure I agree about being drunk though. Voluntary intoxication isn't an excuse for any other crime, I don't personally see a reason to make an exception for rape. If you choose to get that loaded, you take on the risk of your behavior.

 

[Meister]

Dogbert should be pleased that we got the thread back on topic

Women are better at that than men. But then, we're better at most things than men.

Hey wait a doggone minute.....I'm twice the man you are.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

I lean towards attributing the 'but for your actions' role to a female as much as a male. You climb into bed with some guy - ie, the scenario outlined in the article (and not the ridiculous fantasy dreamed up by the droolaider Contessa) then, in my female opinion, that female has placed herself in a situation whereby a guy could misinterpret the situation.

key words: but for your actions (not your dress)

What's the matter with you you stupid twat! NO ONE, regardless of circumstances deserves to be raped.

I find it pathetic that you would think any do, but have to say, only a bitch that has offered it up regularly and still gets no takers would take the position you do. Sorry your luck, but then who would want you ? ? ? ?

Exactly how stupid can one woman be? Where in my post did I claim she would deserve to be raped. You are one seriously stupid bitch. Neg repping me for something I didn't even say - what an idiot. Then instead of addressing the topic you indulge in your stupid 'insults' about me. Your stupidity is showing, cover it up, bitch.

And along with everythjing else you are a liar!

I lean towards attributing the 'but for your actions' role to a female...

When someone SAYS NO then it MEANS NO, NO MATTER WHEN... NO EXCEPTIONS, NO EXCUSES, no bullshitting, and just because someone may have thought they wanted to, and for whatever reason changes their mind then that is the end of it. None of this Oh, but, oh but, oh but crap.

 

[AllieBaba]

Folks need to decide on the fucking definition. If it's rape to have sex with a girl who is unconscious, or who says "no" once, then it's fucking rape regardless of how drunk she is, how drunk you are, where it is, what time it is, etc.

Last I heard, that was the definition of the word rape. Having sex with someone who has either stated they don't want to have sex, or not given consent.

 

[AllieBaba]

And my advice to assholes who want to wiggle out of that...put your pecker back in your pants and use your fucking brains for once. You don't want to risk pregnancy, disease, the "false" accusation of rape?

Stop having sex with women you don't fucking know.

 

[Ravi]

Folks need to decide on the fucking definition. If it's rape to have sex with a girl who is unconscious, or who says "no" once, then it's fucking rape regardless of how drunk she is, how drunk you are, where it is, what time it is, etc.

Last I heard, that was the definition of the word rape. Having sex with someone who has either stated they don't want to have sex, or not given consent.

Seriously. Some of these posters probably also think that if you agree to go bungy jumping and chicken out on the platform that you should just be pushed over the edge...and if you go splat, oh well, you were asking for it.

 

[Modbert]

Abso-fucking-lutely.

I'm not sure I agree about being drunk though. Voluntary intoxication isn't an excuse for any other crime, I don't personally see a reason to make an exception for rape. If you choose to get that loaded, you take on the risk of your behavior.

What I'm saying is if that both parties are intoxicated and had sex, it's unlikely in my opinion that it was rape if she calls it that.

Now if she's drugged, that's a whole different story. However, if she's slamming down shot after shot, then she knows the consequences of impaired thinking. Sex in this case would be one of them with a guy you may regret doing so in the morning.

 

[Modbert]

Folks need to decide on the fucking definition. If it's rape to have sex with a girl who is unconscious, or who says "no" once, then it's fucking rape regardless of how drunk she is, how drunk you are, where it is, what time it is, etc.

Last I heard, that was the definition of the word rape. Having sex with someone who has either stated they don't want to have sex, or not given consent.

Except if they gave consent, then go back and say they got raped, it's not rape.

 

[Modbert]

And my advice to assholes who want to wiggle out of that...put your pecker back in your pants and use your fucking brains for once. You don't want to risk pregnancy, disease, the "false" accusation of rape?

Stop having sex with women you don't fucking know.

And this is why I'll never try and go out to get a random woman even if I did have the inclination. This is the type of thing I'm talking about. People who want to place the responsibility of keeping it in one's pants on the man alone.

While you basically justify any false accusations of rape, etc.

On the flip side of the coin, it takes two to tango Allie.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Show of hands, everyone who's surprised that Mr. F's response to his reality check was to pick a random post of mine to neg rep and tell me to - and I quote - "Fuck off"?

On the other hand, Kalam pos-repped and thanked me nicely for being even-handed, so . . .

Next question is, anyone care to guess which one is ignored as an incurable asshole troll, and which one isn't?

 

[Cecilie1200]

If a man forces sex against the woman's will, then it's rape. But if a woman allows things to progress, even to the point of 'getting in bed' with the guy, then she must accept responsibility for her actions as well.

I think a real risk of refusing to place any responsibility on the woman's actions (not necessarily blame, but at least acknowledging she may have contributed to what happened) is that you end up with women acting damned stupid, using little to no judgement, and getting themselves into situations where rape or an assault can (and is even likely) to occur.


I hope that made sense...

I see what you're saying, and I agree women have to use their judgment and keep the risk in mind. On the other hand, both a woman and a man have every right to change their mind - even after hopping into the same bed. What happens if he starts to play too rough, or something else unexpected happens that makes her want to call it off? It's rather difficult to force a man, but a woman is vulnerable. Assigning blame or even "responsibility" based on them being in bed together is dangerous, if you ask me. We want rapes to be reported and prosecuted, and that means recognizing that NO means NO - regardless of the circumstances.

I have a much bigger problem with the irreponsibility of women who make false rape accusations. It doesn't get much lower than that.

I agree. I guess I'm not being clear.

As I said in the above post, it's naive to think that you can protect yourself against assault regardless of your actions by just saying no. Most men will stop; but not all.

True. You must first protect yourself against assault by knowing a person VERY well BEFORE jumping into bed. It reduces the chance of finding out at an awkward moment that he plays too rough or whatever.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The burden of being the responsible party lies on EVERYONE'S shoulders as it regards their own actions. The man is responsible for his choice to have sex with the woman, regardless of her protests, but the woman is responsible if she made the choice to put herself in danger. It is ludicrous to take the position that any person should be able to behave recklessly and with a disregard for his or her own safety, and expect to remain as safe as in a mother's arms.

That's what I fear is happening, that some feel no matter how they behave or what they do, that somehow 'no' will save the day. Of course 'no means no'. At the same time you have to temper that with common sense and not place yourself willingly into a risky situation. I'm not sure how to get that message across without being accused of 'blaming the victim'.

It's pretty simple. The blame for a rape lies with the rapist. Period. But the responsibility for the woman's safety lies with the woman.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I see what you're saying, and I agree women have to use their judgment and keep the risk in mind. On the other hand, both a woman and a man have every right to change their mind - even after hopping into the same bed. What happens if he starts to play too rough, or something else unexpected happens that makes her want to call it off? It's rather difficult to force a man, but a woman is vulnerable. Assigning blame or even "responsibility" based on them being in bed together is dangerous, if you ask me. We want rapes to be reported and prosecuted, and that means recognizing that NO means NO - regardless of the circumstances.

I have a much bigger problem with the irreponsibility of women who make false rape accusations. It doesn't get much lower than that.

I agree. I guess I'm not being clear.

As I said in the above post, it's naive to think that you can protect yourself against assault regardless of your actions by just saying no. Most men will stop; but not all.

Can't argue with that.

Women are more vulnerable and need to be more cautious, that's just a fact of life. IMO, we need to be wise about choosing a partner more than anything. But that might be a different topic.

I agree, and that is absolutely the same topic.

 

[RadiomanATL]

BBC News - Women say some rape victims should take blame - survey

A majority of women believe some rape victims should take responsibility for what happened, a survey suggests.

Almost three quarters of the women who believed this said if a victim got into bed with the assailant before an attack they should accept some responsibility.

One-third blamed victims who had dressed provocatively or gone back to the attacker's house for a drink.

The survey of more than 1,000 people in London marked the 10th anniversary of the Haven service for rape victims.

More than half of those of both sexes questioned said there were some circumstances when a rape victim should accept responsibility for an attack.

The study found that women were less forgiving of the victim than men.

Of the women who believed some victims should take responsibility, 71% thought a person should accept responsibility when getting into bed with someone, compared with 57% of men.

The survey also found more than one in 10 people were unsure whether they would report being raped to the police, and 2% said they would definitely not do so.

The main reasons were being too embarrassed or ashamed (55%), wanting to forget it had happened (41%) and not wanting to go to court (38%).

Thoughts USMB?

And does anyone think these poll numbers would be vastly different in the U.S. or about the same?

You used the wrong word Dogbert. It's not "blame" it's "responsibility". The woman should own some responsibility for the situation they willingly and knowingly (if stupidly) placed themselves in. The blame rests solely on the POS that committed the rape. But the responsibility for being in a situation that anyone with common sense would have left long ago sometimes is shared by the woman. If a woman drinks with a man to the point of inebriation, makes out with him, and climbs into bed with him, then the woman has stupidly partaken in activities which increase her chances of an assault.

Take the hot-button word "rape" out of it for a second. If you walk down the street in the worst part of town with a big fat stack of cash, and your constantly thumbing through it, you are increasing your chances of being mugged, or a victim of an even more violent crime. Yes, you should not have been robbed, but the behavior you exhibited increased your chances of being robbed. Therefore you own some "responsibility" for your cash-less self now.

Common sense means you don't engage in risky behavior. Such behavior increases the chances of bad things happening to you. And while no one deserves such bad things to happen to them, there are some easy steps that a person can take to not increase the risks.

Sorry, I know this is probably a big old piece of flamebait, but it's just the way I see things.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I think it's indicative of a mindset that still exists among some women that the burden of being the responsible party still lies primarily on their shoulders, especially in regards to issues involving sex. Plus, a prevailing attitude among those same women that men have a more difficult challenge containing their sexual urges.

The burden of being the responsible party lies on EVERYONE'S shoulders as it regards their own actions. The man is responsible for his choice to have sex with the woman, regardless of her protests, but the woman is responsible if she made the choice to put herself in danger. It is ludicrous to take the position that any person should be able to behave recklessly and with a disregard for his or her own safety, and expect to remain as safe as in a mother's arms.

So that is the mindset that women are expected to have everytime they even start to make out with a guy?? Beware ladies, men are dangerous brutes and we must always be on guard and not give into temptation, or else be labeled "reckless". Ugh.

No, the mindset that women are absolutely expected to have every time BEFORE they even CONSIDER making out with a guy is, "Beware, lady, SOME men are dangerous brutes, and we must always be on guard, because we do not want to find out that THIS one is a brute when it's too late." And if that's too damned much of a "limit on your freedom" for you to handle, then you are goddamned right that I'm going to think you're reckless, and you need not come to me asking for shitloads of sympathy when, SURPRISE! your one-night stand turns out to be Ted Bundy.