Without "original sin" all of Christianity collapses

[garyganu]

If you don't buy the literal idea of a talking snake and a man created out of dust and a woman created out of man's rib, then how can you possibly believe the concept of original sin?

All of Christianity collapses without this biblical myth. Without "original sin", human beings wouldn't be "sinners" in need of "redemption in the form of a "redeemer or savior", Christ. Until Augustine, Christians regarded freedom, not redemption as the primary message of Genesis.

"...I came to see that for nearly the first four hundred years of our era, Christians regarded "FREEDOM as the primary message of Genesis 1-3. Freedom in its many forms, including free will, freedom from demonic powers, freedom from social and sexual obligations, freedom from tyrannical government and from fate; and self mastery as the source of such freedom. With Augustine, this message changed.

(E. Pagels, ADAM, EVE, AND THE SERPENT, intro p.XXII, 1988, Random House)

Original sin is passed down from generation to generation because all parents are imperfect. All parents unwittingly leave emotional scars on their children who then pass down emotional scars to their children.

 

[bayoubill]

LAIR!

Sorry, am in squirrely mood today.

I know the feeling... ;-)

 

[bayoubill]

Weren't we all born of sin?

hmmm... "born of sin"...?

I thought the Church approved and encouraged married folks to fuck and make babies...

as I recall, it was even considered a sacred duty for married folks to fuck and make babies...

 

[ABikerSailor]

First off, you've got to define what original sin was.

Was it eating from the Tree of Knowledge? Not really.

Was it because Adam and Eve succumbed to temptation? Again. Not really.

Was it because Adam and Eve got caught by God eating of the fruit and they refused to take responsibility for their actions? Exactly.

The main sin of the Garden wasn't that they ate the fruit, or even that they were embarrassed about being naked. When God asked Adam why he ate, Adam said "it's not my fault, because the woman that You made for me conned me into it".

When God asked Eve why she did it, it was the same answer, she refused to take responsibility for her own actions and admit to what she'd done, instead choosing to blame the serpent.

It's not that humans ate the apple, it's that we lied about eating it and tried to dodge responsibility for our actions.

Now..........in the concept of forgiveness, if you take responsibility for what you've done, apologize to whomever you harmed and make sincere restitution for what you'd done, as well as sincerely endeavor to never repeat those actions again, then you've achieved true forgiveness, because you've admitted you were wrong, repented, and then had a sincere desire to never do that again.

So, if you recognize what the original sin really IS (avoiding responsibility for what you do), then you can be forgiven for it.

And no............original sin has NOTHING to do with sex, because why would a loving God engineer the human race with a black mark against them before they even get started?

 

[bayoubill]

Yes without original sin we would still be in protected Eden and not out in a fallen world. There would have been no need for Christs Sacrifice. I wish Adam and Eve had listened to God and not touched the tree. Yes early Chrisitans did prize freedom from the law of Moses and it's restrictions. Unfortunatley man has heaped up new Dogma in it's place.

hmmm... a coupla things just occurred to me regarding the Adam and Eve story:

Wasn't it only after "the fall" that Adam and Eve got it on and made babies...? (as I recall, Adam got the hots for Eve only after "the fall"...)

If Adam and Eve had not touched the tree, and "the fall" had never occurred, would they have ever done the baby-making thing...?

If Adam and Eve had never done the baby-making thing, where would that leave us...?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yes without original sin we would still be in protected Eden and not out in a fallen world. There would have been no need for Christs Sacrifice. I wish Adam and Eve had listened to God and not touched the tree. Yes early Chrisitans did prize freedom from the law of Moses and it's restrictions. Unfortunatley man has heaped up new Dogma in it's place.

hmmm... a coupla things just occurred to me regarding the Adam and Eve story:

Wasn't it only after "the fall" that Adam and Eve got it on and made babies...? (as I recall, Adam got the hots for Eve only after "the fall"...)

If Adam and Eve had not touched the tree, and "the fall" had never occurred, would they have ever done the baby-making thing...?

If Adam and Eve had never done the baby-making thing, where would that leave us...?

Actually, Adam and Eve DID have sex in the Garden. Matter of fact, Adam even had sex with Lillith before she uttered the 4 Letter Name of God and disappeared.

Why did she utter the name and disappear? Because Adam wouldn't let her be on top, with the end result being that God created Eve.

 

[Liability]

LAIR!

Sorry, am in squirrely mood today.

Squirrels are cool.

 

[BDBoop]

LAIR!

Sorry, am in squirrely mood today.

Squirrels are cool.

I have seen both a black one, and a white one. I don't know why I thought they were so cool. They're still rodents.

 

[Liability]

LAIR!

Sorry, am in squirrely mood today.

Squirrels are cool.

I have seen both a black one, and a white one. I don't know why I thought they were so cool. They're still rodents.

So is the fucking Easter fucking bunny.

 

[BDBoop]

Squirrels are cool.

I have seen both a black one, and a white one. I don't know why I thought they were so cool. They're still rodents.

So is the fucking Easter fucking bunny.

HEATHEN!! Easter bunnies do not fuck!! They are virgin bunnies!

 

[Liability]

I have seen both a black one, and a white one. I don't know why I thought they were so cool. They're still rodents.

So is the fucking Easter fucking bunny.

HEATHEN!! Easter bunnies do not fuck!! They are virgin bunnies!

Look. Every year, Jesus comes out of the tomb. And if he sees his shadow, SIX more weeks of winter.

Bam!

JUST that simple.

So don't tell me the Easter bunny doesn't get drunk and laid a lot.

 

[BDBoop]

So is the fucking Easter fucking bunny.

HEATHEN!! Easter bunnies do not fuck!! They are virgin bunnies!

Look. Every year, Jesus comes out of the tomb. And if he sees his shadow, SIX more weeks of winter.

Bam!

JUST that simple.

So don't tell me the Easter bunny doesn't get drunk and laid a lot.

I didn't quite catch that connection, but I shall give you the point because you seem very sure of yourself.

 

[Liability]

HEATHEN!! Easter bunnies do not fuck!! They are virgin bunnies!

Look. Every year, Jesus comes out of the tomb. And if he sees his shadow, SIX more weeks of winter.

Bam!

JUST that simple.

So don't tell me the Easter bunny doesn't get drunk and laid a lot.

I didn't quite catch that connection, but I shall give you the point because you seem very sure of yourself.

Odd.

I was in full incoherence mode.

'Night amiga.

 

[BDBoop]

Look. Every year, Jesus comes out of the tomb. And if he sees his shadow, SIX more weeks of winter.

Bam!

JUST that simple.

So don't tell me the Easter bunny doesn't get drunk and laid a lot.

I didn't quite catch that connection, but I shall give you the point because you seem very sure of yourself.

Odd.

I was in full incoherence mode.

'Night amiga.

'Night, amigo. Careful on the stairs.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If you don't buy the literal idea of a talking snake and a man created out of dust and a woman created out of man's rib, then how can you possibly believe the concept of original sin?

All of Christianity collapses without this biblical myth. Without "original sin", human beings wouldn't be "sinners" in need of "redemption in the form of a "redeemer or savior", Christ. Until Augustine, Christians regarded freedom, not redemption as the primary message of Genesis.

"...I came to see that for nearly the first four hundred years of our era, Christians regarded "FREEDOM as the primary message of Genesis 1-3. Freedom in its many forms, including free will, freedom from demonic powers, freedom from social and sexual obligations, freedom from tyrannical government and from fate; and self mastery as the source of such freedom. With Augustine, this message changed.

(E. Pagels, ADAM, EVE, AND THE SERPENT, intro p.XXII, 1988, Random House)

Are you trying to argue that, without the Bible, human beings would be perfect?

 

[The Professor]

I have seen both a black one, and a white one. I don't know why I thought they were so cool. They're still rodents.

So is the fucking Easter fucking bunny.

HEATHEN!! Easter bunnies do not fuck!! They are virgin bunnies!

With all due respect, dear lady, I must protest your use of the phrase “Easter bunnies.” Since there is only one Easter bunny, your pluralization of the word is blasphemous . While chocolate treats formed in bunny images can be referred to in the plural sense, the suggestion that there are multiple Easter bunnies is as insane as the proposition that there is more than one Santa Clause.

PS: all the children of the world think YOU are a heathen, I know because I talked to all of them. It's Easter bunny (singular), not Easter bunnies (plural). Now, apologize to all the kids, say ten hail-Marys and promise never to do it again!!

 

[BDBoop]

If it's all the same to you, I'm gonna say ten Our Father's, drink three Bloody Marys and watch Hello Dolly.

 

[Katzndogz]

I love it when non-believers try to explain Christianity. It reminds me of the legends cargo cults dream up to explain away airplanes.

 

[BDBoop]

I love it when non-believers try to explain Christianity. It reminds me of the legends cargo cults dream up to explain away airplanes.

Hope you're not responding to the last who knows how many posts, whereby I had some fun with a couple of banter buddies.

 

[California Girl]

No. it doesnt. but that's irrelevant because man is fallen and imperfect. That's undeniable. Are you seriously claiming that you are without fault?

I completely disagree with you. All beings are pure from the beginning and have Buddha nature.

That nature is like a crystal, and it has the capacity for rainbow like radiance.

Crystal are covered in rock, and the rock must be refined away. The rock doesn't damage the crystal in any way.

So our impurites of mind, ignorance, anger, attachment, jealousy and pride are like the rock covering the crystal. By doing meditation practice, the rock, or adventitious flaws are refined away revealing the crystal purity and rainbow radiance of awareness within.

Different views. That's all I'm gonna say.

I know you don't respect other people's spiritual views, but I had to say the truth anyway.

Since when did you show any respect for other people's spiritual views? You bitch and whine about Christians constantly. Hypocrite.