With all due respect, Mr. Romney, what the HELL?

[SniperFire]

Weren't taxes also higher under Clinton?

It isn't about higher taxes any more than it's about lower taxes.

It's about fair taxes.

On all income in excess of $30,000 a year, acquired by any and all means of acquiring money from wages to contracting, through interest earned, capital investments, hustling pool and lottery winnings, everyone should pay 18%. 'Cept for foreigners. Foreigners should have to pay 18% on everything and Citizens should get to earn their first $30k a year tax free. Citizenship should have perks other than voting.

I don't think you know what fair means.

Fair means EVERYONE puts skin in the game.

I mean fucking everyone.

He simply does not get that.

Probably raised as a gubmint dependent.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I think the majority of America disagrees with that statement.

Most Important Problem
"what do you think is the most important problem facing this country today?"
As of May, 2012, 31% said the economy in general... 22% said jobs... 9% said deficit/debt... 4% said lack of money... 2% said taxes

I think you're wrong.

Beer?

i NEVER refuse beer Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Not sure how I am wrong here though, as I did not express a personal opinion on the matter at hand. I simply linked to a poll showing that considerably more people put the economy ahead of taxes. That puts you in the minority. Understand that I am not denigrating you or your opinion.

I was ass-u-me-ing that the link you posted was in support of a position that, in your opinion, fairness in the tax code was NOT necessarily the most important issue of our day.

If that's the case, we'll have to agree to disagree. Fairness and transparency in the collection of taxes and the corruption spawned by favoritism and complex confusion in the tax code are the most important political issues facing us, in my humble opinion.

Spending is a close second and public budgets that are balanced by law are necessary, but from family finances to government billions, nobody can craft a budget 'till a revenue stream is identified, and We The People are clueless as to what our tax base is actually worth.

 

[SniperFire]

What a pile of confused, aimless rhetoric.

LOL

 

[hortysir]

Lets summerize, shall we?

The rich pay their highest share of the total Federal Income tax burden.

The Federal income taxes increasingly go directly to the non-rich in the form of freebie handouts. That is also known as wealth redistribution. In fact, the handouts are now over half the budget and will consume 100% of all tax revenues in just over a decade.

The poor and especially the middle class should be paying much, much more of the Federal income tax burden if they are going to continue to gobble up Federal tax monies at an alarming rate.

The last thing a Liberal wants is 'fairness' in taxes.

I am not sure if you are just dishonest or woefully ignorant, Ave Joe.

Whatever dude...

One question - in your opinion, is American tax law simple, efficient and fair?

No, to all of the above.
Our tax laws should be more simple.
Until that happens and until it can be proven Romney has broken any tax laws, let's work on those tax laws.
Then.....
Let's work on Jobs, Budget, Debt/Deficit

 

[AVG-JOE]

“I just have to say given the challenges that America faces 23 million people out of work, Iran about to become nuclear, one out of six Americans in poverty, the fascination with taxes I paid I find to be very small minded compared to the broad issues we face,”


Mitt Romney Says He Never Paid Less Than 13 Percent In Taxes - ABC News

The most important issue of our day is fair taxes.

At the risk of redundancy: The most important issue of our day is fair taxes. Fairness through simplicity, especially at the federal level.



Fair and simple taxes, public budgets that are balanced by law, and transparency in all things politics.

The stars await, kids.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOx3uOeXtpM]First look: Nasa releases Mars Curiosity rover colour panoramic pictures - YouTube[/ame]

the fascination with taxes I paid I find to be very small minded compared to the broad issues we face,”

You think the issue with what he paid in taxes is paramount?
Because that's what he said here....I don't get your post at all.

I believe that if Romney believed he paid his fair share, he'd have published his returns going back to the 90's. I also believe that he's embarrassed by his tax returns now that he's running for president, and that he most likely has a valid reason to be embarrassed.

I believe that our tax code is complex, confusing and unfair, especially to folks who can't afford tax attorneys and accountants.

That's it. One point specific to Romney coupled with my standard political banner of fair and simple taxes, public budgets that are balanced by law and transparency in all things politics 'cause it dove-tails in real nice.

 

[AVG-JOE]

That Heritage chart is typical Heritage bullshit. Social Security is not welfare - people pay into it their entire working lives. Wall Street desperately wants to get their hands on that money.

Defense should be cut in half - at least.

You know what they want even more than the money? The data base. What do you think the income and work records of everyone* would be worth?








* Note that in this case, 'everyone' literally means everyone. Not just some of y'all... All y'all.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The last thing idiot Liberals want is 'fair' taxation.

Perhaps, but it's the very FIRST thing us intelligent Liberals want addressed. Followed closely by public budgets that are balanced by law and transparency in all things politics.

How the FUCK can spending be addressed before we know what the tax base of this country is truly worth? As long as there is favoritism in the tax code, corruption will run our politics.

Now, be careful with your labels, do you see how I'm saying that Obama is just as wrong in wanting to coddle 'green' industry with tax favoritism as the stuffy old white guys creeping around DC since the petroleum hay-days are to continue coddling 'old' energy?

Taxes that are simple are taxes that are fair.

Complete bullshit, of course, because you OP postulation was the the rich were not paying enough when in fact it is obvious to any honest observer that the lack of 'fairness' in the taxation is that the masses are not paying NEARLY what they should be paying bases on their ever-increasing consumption of redistributive goodies.

You are either dishonest or ignorant, or both.

What I am is in disagreement with you on what constitutes fair and simple taxes. Nothing evil, nothing sinister.

I hope you won't mind a little more free time every spring, 'cause simplicity and fairness will eventually win out over the favoritism that all that paperwork breeds on BOTH ends of the spectrum. Earned Income Tax Credits is a stupid way to dole out welfare. Almost as stupid as 'industry incentives'. I say almost as stupid because at least the EITC's don't come with millions in campaign contributions to keep the wheels of favoritism greased.

 

[francoHFW]

Social Security IS welfare.

There IS no money to be paid out. They spent it. Now you want more in the name of, "I paid into it, its my money!"

Yet if anyone who has that ideology is asked about what money they should get if they happen to outlive the money they put into the system, they are strangely silent.

And then there is the biggest kicker.

I paid into it, so it is my money! It loses any real value when the same people are willing to 'means test' social security and take the money paid in if the person happens to have enough money to not need social security.

So, which is it? Is it their money, or is it just fucking greed by the left?

The proof that it is welfare is that Obama threatened to not send out the checks if the debt ceiling was not increased.

Yes, because when they open the box, it is empty. Everyone knows this. Everywhere you go, just say "Social Security." Nothing more....Every person in the room will say that they won't see it.

Every one of them.

You hang out with Pub dupe idiots. Shocking. LOL But vote for them and you'll get feqqed....

 

[SillyWabbit]

The rich pay their greatest share of the Federal income tax burden in America ever in our history.

And the poor and middle class pay less, yet continue to gobble up a larger and larger share of the tax dolla, thanks to explosive entitlement growth :

The last thing idiot Liberals want is 'fair' taxation.

Two things struck me as I looked at this graph: I am fairly certain I will never see a dime of Social Security or Medicare money, and not too deep into this graph are points covering my death and and the death of pretty much everyone I know. I hope my donations prove useful.

 

[francoHFW]

Lets summerize, shall we?

The rich pay their highest share of the total Federal Income tax burden.

The Federal income taxes increasingly go directly to the non-rich in the form of freebie handouts. That is also known as wealth redistribution. In fact, the handouts are now over half the budget and will consume 100% of all tax revenues in just over a decade.

The poor and especially the middle class should be paying much, much more of the Federal income tax burden if they are going to continue to gobble up Federal tax monies at an alarming rate.

The last thing a Liberal wants is 'fairness' in taxes.

I am not sure if you are just dishonest or woefully ignorant, Ave Joe.

Whatever dude...

One question - in your opinion, is American tax law simple, efficient and fair?

No, to all of the above.
Our tax laws should be more simple.
Until that happens and until it can be proven Romney has broken any tax laws, let's work on those tax laws.
Then.....
Let's work on Jobs, Budget, Debt/Deficit

But in the real world...

I know, let's cut taxes on the bloated rich, destroy Medicare and health reform, raise taxes and fees on the nonrich, let corporate cheats run wild, cut aid to states and localities, raise military spending to more than the rest of the world combined, and worry about the debt in 2035.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Weren't taxes also higher under Clinton?

It isn't about higher taxes any more than it's about lower taxes.

It's about fair taxes.

On all income in excess of $30,000 a year, acquired by any and all means of acquiring money from wages to contracting, through interest earned, capital investments, hustling pool and lottery winnings, everyone should pay 18%. 'Cept for foreigners. Foreigners should have to pay 18% on everything and Citizens should get to earn their first $30k a year tax free. Citizenship should have perks other than voting.

I don't think you know what fair means.

Fair means EVERYONE puts skin in the game.

I mean fucking everyone.

What's not fair about letting everyone get their first 30k in the bank tax free? What part of 'applies to everyone' isn't fair?

 

[SniperFire]

Perhaps, but it's the very FIRST thing us intelligent Liberals want addressed. Followed closely by public budgets that are balanced by law and transparency in all things politics.

How the FUCK can spending be addressed before we know what the tax base of this country is truly worth? As long as there is favoritism in the tax code, corruption will run our politics.

Now, be careful with your labels, do you see how I'm saying that Obama is just as wrong in wanting to coddle 'green' industry with tax favoritism as the stuffy old white guys creeping around DC since the petroleum hay-days are to continue coddling 'old' energy?

Taxes that are simple are taxes that are fair.

Complete bullshit, of course, because you OP postulation was the the rich were not paying enough when in fact it is obvious to any honest observer that the lack of 'fairness' in the taxation is that the masses are not paying NEARLY what they should be paying bases on their ever-increasing consumption of redistributive goodies.

You are either dishonest or ignorant, or both.

What I am is in disagreement with you on what constitutes fair and simple taxes. Nothing evil, nothing sinister.

I hope you won't mind a little more free time every spring, 'cause simplicity and fairness will eventually win out over the favoritism that all that paperwork breeds on BOTH ends of the spectrum. Earned Income Tax Credits is a stupid way to dole out welfare. Almost as stupid as 'industry incentives'. I say almost as stupid because at least the EITC's don't come with millions in campaign contributions to keep the wheels of favoritism greased.

Actually, you are wrong again. EITC is an excellent way to dole out welfare, as it not only lowers distribution costs but is tied to incentive to go out and try to get a job.

You have a very poor grasp on the topic, and like a good little libtard refuse to acknowledge the several truths and facts presented to you.

Beyond that, you are a rambling and bumbling mess of rhetorical doublespeak, and in general, a poor poster.

 

[Trajan]

The most important issue of our day is fair taxes.

At the risk of redundancy: The most important issue of our day is fair taxes. Fairness through simplicity, especially at the federal level.



Fair and simple taxes, public budgets that are balanced by law, and transparency in all things politics.

The stars await, kids.
First look: Nasa releases Mars Curiosity rover colour panoramic pictures - YouTube

the fascination with taxes I paid I find to be very small minded compared to the broad issues we face,”

You think the issue with what he paid in taxes is paramount?
Because that's what he said here....I don't get your post at all.

I believe that if Romney believed he paid his fair share, he'd have published his returns going back to the 90's. I also believe that he's embarrassed by his tax returns now that he's running for president, and that he most likely has a valid reason to be embarrassed.

I believe that our tax code is complex, confusing and unfair, especially to folks who can't afford tax attorneys and accountants.

That's it. One point specific to Romney coupled with my standard political banner of fair and simple taxes, public budgets that are balanced by law and transparency in all things politics 'cause it dove-tails in real nice.

its already on record hes paid around 15%...lets assume he paid that every years since he was Governor...so what? thats the tax code. what more do you want? if he paid less it wasn't by much, 13% maybe, there is a floor for anyone especially when they take 'income' via investment vehicles that they will wind up paying no matter how smart your tax attorney is..... McCain provided 2 years worth and there was no big snit over that, so I am at a loss here. So you wish to assume hes hiding something?

I posted a graph here before on what each candidate has made public....*shrugs* its all over the place.

if 15% is to low for you, then I'd say, thats an argument on investment taxes, and if you think thats unfair, I disagree, but that has zip to do with income tax btw.

here:

and-

 

[SniperFire]

It isn't about higher taxes any more than it's about lower taxes.

It's about fair taxes.

On all income in excess of $30,000 a year, acquired by any and all means of acquiring money from wages to contracting, through interest earned, capital investments, hustling pool and lottery winnings, everyone should pay 18%. 'Cept for foreigners. Foreigners should have to pay 18% on everything and Citizens should get to earn their first $30k a year tax free. Citizenship should have perks other than voting.

I don't think you know what fair means.

Fair means EVERYONE puts skin in the game.

I mean fucking everyone.

What's not fair about letting everyone get their first 30k in the bank tax free? What part of 'applies to everyone' isn't fair?

Did you even look at the entitlement consumption chart which has been posted and reposted about 12 times in this thread?

 

[francoHFW]

The rich pay their greatest share of the Federal income tax burden in America ever in our history.

And the poor and middle class pay less, yet continue to gobble up a larger and larger share of the tax dolla, thanks to explosive entitlement growth :

The last thing idiot Liberals want is 'fair' taxation.

Two things struck me as I looked at this graph: I am fairly certain I will never see a dime of Social Security or Medicare money, and not too deep into this graph are points covering my death and and the death of pretty much everyone I know. I hope my donations prove useful.

LOL BUT O-care as proven by Teddycare, cuts med spending by 10% after 6 years. The incredible Pub propaganda machine, Un desastre!!

That is, cut cost rise yearly to 2% from the 15% Pub level of the last 30 years!! Which is what ruins Medicare/aid and the economy....

 

[AVG-JOE]

Hilarious, considering your assclown OP postulated that the rich weren't paying their 'fairness' in taxes.

Hey, some are and some aren't - the point is we can never know as long as we have a tax code that's so complicated that the agency tasked with administering it is confused, confusing and contradictory.

Do I really need a link to an article probing confusion emanating from The IRS?

Can you point to what Obama has done to simplify the tax code?

No. All he's really done tax code wise is to continue playing the favoritism game perfected by the Republicans with tax 'incentives' for 'green' energy companies.

It's all bullshit and favoritism. Just 'cause I rag on Romney doesn't mean I'm happy with Obama.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Complete bullshit, of course, because you OP postulation was the the rich were not paying enough when in fact it is obvious to any honest observer that the lack of 'fairness' in the taxation is that the masses are not paying NEARLY what they should be paying bases on their ever-increasing consumption of redistributive goodies.

You are either dishonest or ignorant, or both.

What I am is in disagreement with you on what constitutes fair and simple taxes. Nothing evil, nothing sinister.

I hope you won't mind a little more free time every spring, 'cause simplicity and fairness will eventually win out over the favoritism that all that paperwork breeds on BOTH ends of the spectrum. Earned Income Tax Credits is a stupid way to dole out welfare. Almost as stupid as 'industry incentives'. I say almost as stupid because at least the EITC's don't come with millions in campaign contributions to keep the wheels of favoritism greased.

Actually, you are wrong again. EITC is an excellent way to dole out welfare, as it not only lowers distribution costs but is tied to incentive to go out and try to get a job.

You have a very poor grasp on the topic, and like a good little libtard refuse to acknowledge the several truths and facts presented to you.

Beyond that, you are a rambling and bumbling mess of rhetorical doublespeak, and in general, a poor poster.

One more question, SniperFire... have you written anything worth reading in this thread? You display a fine knack for childish insults, but other than winning the hearts and minds of 13 year old boys busy flaming farts for entertainment, I see very little in the way of actual game.

What is our most pressing national issue in your opinion?
What is a fair and equitable tax concept in your opinion?
What is your political opinion, sans the simple spewing of right-wing regurgitations and teen-age insults?

 

[007]

Well, jeesh Mitten, if your taxes were unimportant we'd sure as fuck know about them.

Really? You mean like we'd know about this? ...

 

[AVG-JOE]

the fascination with taxes I paid I find to be very small minded compared to the broad issues we face,”

You think the issue with what he paid in taxes is paramount?
Because that's what he said here....I don't get your post at all.

I believe that if Romney believed he paid his fair share, he'd have published his returns going back to the 90's. I also believe that he's embarrassed by his tax returns now that he's running for president, and that he most likely has a valid reason to be embarrassed.

I believe that our tax code is complex, confusing and unfair, especially to folks who can't afford tax attorneys and accountants.

That's it. One point specific to Romney coupled with my standard political banner of fair and simple taxes, public budgets that are balanced by law and transparency in all things politics 'cause it dove-tails in real nice.

its already on record hes paid around 15%...lets assume he paid that every years since he was Governor...so what? thats the tax code. what more do you want? if he paid less it wasn't by much, 13% maybe, there is a floor for anyone especially when they take 'income' via investment vehicles that they will wind up paying no matter how smart your tax attorney is..... McCain provided 2 years worth and there was no big snit over that, so I am at a loss here. So you wish to assume hes hiding something?

I posted a graph here before on what each candidate has made public....*shrugs* its all over the place.

if 15% is to low for you, then I'd say, thats an argument on investment taxes, and if you think thats unfair, I disagree, but that has zip to do with income tax btw.

here:

and-

My two points are that the current tax code is patently unfair, especially towards folks who can't afford accountants and attorneys and that Romney seems to be embarrassed by something in his tax returns.

Connected? Legitimate concern? That's for the voters to decide, I suppose.

 

[Lakhota]

Well, jeesh Mitten, if your taxes were unimportant we'd sure as fuck know about them.

Really? You mean like we'd know about this? ...

That's a lie!