Wikileaks reveals WMDs

[CMike]

What he said. Divecon and CMike, are you wrong, flatly. Admit it, and let's move on.

Prove it.

 

[DiveCon]

For some reason they think that their own opinion is proof

Prove that the 11 points are incorrect.

Prove that the chief of Israeli counterintelligence and Sada were wrong.

Prove that the 500 chemical weapons found in Iraq were not WMD.

Opinion is not proof .

whats really funny ius that some of the stuff found they CLAIM Reagan gave/sold to Saddam
and it was WMD when Reagan did it, but suddenly not WMD when found later

 

[manu1959]

wmd's to me was the smoking gun that could show in the form of a mushroom cloud....

nuclear wmd's, yellowcake from africa kinda stuff...that was touted by the administration

the un has a definition of wmd.....items meeting that definition were found....the un also had 18 resolutions that definign what should be done.....

no whether the us should have invaded iraq based on the un's paperwork is a whole other issue....

 

[CMike]

For some reason they think that their own opinion is proof

Prove that the 11 points are incorrect.

Prove that the chief of Israeli counterintelligence and Sada were wrong.

Prove that the 500 chemical weapons found in Iraq were not WMD.

Opinion is not proof .

whats really funny ius that some of the stuff found they CLAIM Reagan gave/sold to Saddam
and it was WMD when Reagan did it, but suddenly not WMD when found later

They are very creative.

When it comes down to it their opinions are based on

 

[JakeStarkey]

What he said. Divecon and CMike, are you wrong, flatly. Admit it, and let's move on.

Prove it.

You have failed in your points. That is obvious. Now you are merely being stubborn. It's a human trait not to admit when you are wrong.

 

[JakeStarkey]

wmd's to me was the smoking gun that could show in the form of a mushroom cloud....

nuclear wmd's, yellowcake from africa kinda stuff...that was touted by the administration

the un has a definition of wmd.....items meeting that definition were found....the un also had 18 resolutions that definign what should be done.....

no whether the us should have invaded iraq based on the un's paperwork is a whole other issue....

Not in the sense that our Beloved Leader Kim il Bush was talking.

No such weapons have ever been found.

 

[DiveCon]

wmd's to me was the smoking gun that could show in the form of a mushroom cloud....

nuclear wmd's, yellowcake from africa kinda stuff...that was touted by the administration

the un has a definition of wmd.....items meeting that definition were found....the un also had 18 resolutions that definign what should be done.....

no whether the us should have invaded iraq based on the un's paperwork is a whole other issue....

Not in the sense that our Beloved Leader Kim il Bush was talking.

No such weapons have ever been found.

and jokey lies again

 

[JakeStarkey]

The WMDs as described by Bush did not exist in Iraq. They were never found. Anyone who says differently is either monumentally stupid, monumentally ignorant, or monumentally malignant.

 

[DiveCon]

The WMDs as described by Bush did not exist in Iraq. They were never found. Anyone who says differently is either monumentally stupid, monumentally ignorant, or monumentally malignant.

wrong again, dipshit, the STOCKPILES didnt exist

 

[JakeStarkey]

As described by Bush et al, they did not exist. Get it straight, fringer.

 

[DiveCon]

As described by Bush et al, they did not exist. Get it straight, fringer.

fuck off moron, you are wrong

 

[RoccoR]

CMike, et al,

It's impossible to prove a negative. You can only show that no one can show it's true.

For some reason they think that their own opinion is proof

Prove that the 11 points are incorrect.

Prove that the chief of Israeli counterintelligence and Sada were wrong.

Prove that the 500 chemical weapons found in Iraq were not WMD.

Opinion is not proof .

(COMMENT)

• Former Air Vice-Marshal Georges Hormis Sada, Iraqi Air Force, said what he said to make his book deal. There has to be something spectacular in the book, or no one would buy it. And the Syrians just love the rumor, because that would make them the top dog in the Middle East. But no one is buying that story, except for the Americans. There will be always those that cling to that rumor.
  
• As for Israeli disinformation, the Israelis are not the allies people think they are (Remember the USS Liberty). It is to there advantage if they could convince the US Intelligence Community that there are weapons in the hands of the Syrian (State Supporters of Terrorism). That would drag us into another war that would serve simply to eliminate another Israeli opponent. The Israelis would love for us to invade any nation hostile to them. We would be their proxy warriors.

Don't be so easily fooled. If the Syrians had viable (weapons grade) WMD, then simply storage is not all there is to it. That material requires maintenance; it has a shelf life, and the Syrian could not do this all on their own without it coming the the attention of all the assets (non-US) that are looking at them everyday.

(WHO ARE YOU GOING TO BELIEVE?)

You have a choice, as to who you are going to believe. VAM Sada and Israeli Intelligence, "OR" the CIA chief weapons inspector in Iraq, Dr David Kay, Iraq Survey Group (ISG)?

KAY: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

As you know and we discussed, I do not have a written statement. This hearing came about very quickly. I do have a few preliminary comments, but I suspect you're more interested in asking questions, and I'll be happy to respond to those questions to the best of my ability.

I would like to open by saying that the talent, dedication and bravery of the staff of the ISG that was my privilege to direct is unparalleled and the country owes a great debt of gratitude to the men and women who have served over there and continue to serve doing that.

A great deal has been accomplished by the team, and I do think -- I echo what you said, Senator -- I think it important that it goes on and it is allowed to reach its full conclusion. In fact, I really believe it ought to be better resourced and totally focused on WMD; that that is important to do it.

But I also believe that it is time to begin the fundamental analysis of how we got here, what led us here and what we need to do in order to ensure that we are equipped with the best possible intelligence as we face these issues in the future.

KAY: Let me begin by saying, we were almost all wrong, and I certainly include myself here.

Senator Kennedy knows very directly. Senator Kennedy and I talked on several occasions prior to the war that my view was that the best evidence that I had seen was that Iraq, indeed, had weapons of mass destruction.

I would also point out that many governments that chose not to support this war -- certainly, the French president, Chirac, as I recall in April of last year, referred to Iraq's possession of WMD. The German certainly -- the intelligence service believed that there were WMD.

It turns out that we were all wrong, probably in my judgment, and that is most disturbing.

We're also in a period in which we've had intelligence surprises in the proliferation area that go the other way. The case of Iran, a nuclear program that the Iranians admit was 18 years on, that we underestimated. And, in fact, we didn't discover it. It was discovered by a group of Iranian dissidents outside the country who pointed the international community at the location.

The ISG did an outstanding job. And they had access to all the information you could have wanted. They too knew about the battlefield remnants. But they were looking for the material that the IC predicted. They were looking for the useable material and the project documentation and plans. They busted their ass, and wanted nothing more than to go back to The President and report: They found it! But that's not what they discovered; not at all.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[CMike]

Okay let's go by the UN.

http://www.iraqwatch.org/wmd/iraqarticle2pg1.pdf

This is from the New York Times



The authors, Gary Milhollin and Kelly Nugent, based their work principally on reports from the United Nations Special Commission and the International Atomic Energy Agency, and statements by Richard Butler, the commission's chief inspector. POISON GAS

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- At least 3.9 tons of VX nerve gas. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq admits producing this amount in 1988 and 1990. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- The gas was low quality and the effort to make it failed.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- VX nerve gas put into warheads. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- U.S. and French tests found traces of nerve gas on warhead remnants. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- The evidence was planted.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- About 600 tons of ingredients for VX gas. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Out of 805 tons on hand, only 191 could be verified as destroyed. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- Everything was destroyed or consumed in production.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- Up to 3,000 tons of other poison gas agents. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq admits producing agents in the 1980's. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- They were used, thrown away or destroyed by U.S. bombs during the 1991 gulf war.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- Several hundred additional tons of poison gas agents that Iraq may have produced. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq had enough ingredients to make more poison gas than it admits producing. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- All poison gas production has been declared.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- 4,000 tons of ingredients to make poison gas. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq admits importing or producing them. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- No records of what happened to them are available.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- 500 bombs with parachutes to deliver gas or germ payloads. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq admits producing them. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- They were secretly destroyed.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- About 550 artillery shells filled with mustard gas. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq admits they existed. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- They were lost shortly after the gulf war.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- 107,500 casings for chemical arms HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq admits producing or importing them. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- No records are available.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- 31,658 filled and empty chemical munitions. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq admits producing or importing them. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- They were thrown away, destroyed secretly or destroyed by U.S. bombs.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- An Iraqi Air Force document showing how much poison gas was used against Iran, and thus how much Iraq has left. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- A U.N. inspector held the document briefly in her hands before Iraq confiscated it. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- Inspectors might be able to see it, but only in the presence of the Secretary General's personal envoy.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- The results of a project to make binary artillery shells for sarin nerve gas. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq admits it ran such a project and made experimental shells. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- There are no records or physical traces of the program.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- Production procedures for making poison gas. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Such proceedures are needed for large-scale production. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- No documents containing these procedures can be found.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- Documents showing the overall size of the chemical weapons program. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Inspectors determined that specific documents are still missing. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- No such documents can be found.

GERM WARFARE AGENTS UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- At least 157 aerial bombs filled with germ agents. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq admits filling this many. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- They were secretly destroyed. UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- At least 25 missile warheads containing germ agents (anthrax, aflotoxin and botulinum). HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq admits producing them. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- They were secretly destroyed.


UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- Excess germ warfare agent. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq admits producing more of the agent than was used to fill munitions. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- The excess was secretly destroyed.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- Spraying equipment to deliver germ agents by helicopter. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq admits it tested such equipment. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- Iraq refuses to explain what happened to it.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- The results of a project to deliver germ agents by drop tanks. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq admits the project existed, but inspectors cannot verify Iraq's account. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- Everything has been accounted for.


UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- Growth media to produce three or four times the amount of anthrax Iraq admits producing. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- U.N. inspectors discovered that this much was imported. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- Either the material was not imported or it went to a civilian lab.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- Equipment to produce germ agents. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq provided an incomplete inventory. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- Everything has been accounted for.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- Program to dry germ agents so they are easier to store and use. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Inspectors saw a document revealing the program's existence. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- No such program existed.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- Log book showing purchases for the germ warfare program. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Inspectors saw the log book in 1995. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- The book cannot be found.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- List of imported ingredients for germ agents. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq admits the document exists. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- The document cannot be found.


UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- List of ingredients for germ agents stored at Iraq's main germ facility. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq admits the document exists. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- The document cannot be found.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- The total amount of germ agents Iraq produced (anthrax, botulinum, gas gangrene, aflatoxin). HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Production capacity far exceeds the amount Iraq admits producing. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- Iraq did not use full capacity.

NUCLEAR WEAPONS UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- Components for three to four implosion-type nuclear weapons, lacking only uranium fuel. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Intelligence gathered by the former U.N. inspector Scott Ritter. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- Such weapons do not exist.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- Drawings showing the latest stage of Iraq's nuclear weapon design. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Inspectors determined the drawings must exist. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- Cannot explain why the drawings are missing.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- Design drawings of individual nuclear weapon components, including the precise dimensions of explosive lenses. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Other drawings show that these drawings. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- Iraq no longer has these drawings exist.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- Drawings of how to mate a nuclear warhead to a missile. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Other drawings show that these drawings exist. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- Iraq no longer has these drawings.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- Documents detailing cooperation among various Iraqi nuclear weapon and missile groups. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- The cooperation must have generated a paper trail. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- No response.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- Documents revealing how far Iraq got in developing centrifuges to process uranium to weapons grade. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq tested one or two prototypes. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- The documents were secretly destroyed.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- 170 technical reports explaining how to produce and operate these centrifuges. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq admits a German supplier provided them, and a few were found. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- The documents were secretly destroyed.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- Materials and equipment belonging to Iraq's most advanced nuclear weapon design team. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Inspectors have determined that important items are still missing. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- Iraq has provided everything it can find.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- Materials and equipment belonging to the group trying to process uranium to nuclear weapons grade. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Inspectors have determined that important items are still missing WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- Iraq has provided everything it can find.

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- The name and whereabouts of a foreign national who offered to help Iraq's nuclear program. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Inspectors were informed that the offer was made. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- Inspectors should consult an Iraqi expatriate who might provide a lead. (They did; it was a dead end.)

UNACCOUNTED FOR IN IRAQ -- Documents proving Iraq's claim that it abandoned its secret nuclar-bomb program. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Inspectors determined that such a step must have been recorded. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- No records can be found. BALLISTIC MISSILES

U
NACCOUNTED FOR -- Seven, locally-produced ballistic missiles. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq admits it had them. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- They were secretly destroyed in 1991. UNACCOUNTED FOR -- Two operational missiles that Iraq imported. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq admits it had them. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- They were secretly destroyed in 1991.

UNACCOUNTED FOR -- Components for missile guidance that Iraq imported. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq supplied an inventory but it was incomplete. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- They were secretly destroyed.

UNACCOUNTED FOR -- Up to 150 tons of material for missile production. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq admits it had it; destruction could not be verified. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- It was secretly melted or dumped into rivers and canals.

UNACCOUNTED FOR -- Liquid fuel for long-range missiles. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq admits it had them. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- It was secretly destroyed and will not be discussed further.

UNACCOUNTED FOR -- Up to 50 Scud-type missile warheads, presumably for high exposives. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq admits it had them. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- They were secretly destroyed.

UNACCOUNTED FOR -- Drawings showing how to together a Scud missile. HOW INSPECTORS KNOW -- Iraq needed such drawings to produce these missiles. WHAT IRAQ SAYS -- All available drawings were provided

 

[westwall]

CMike, history is ongoing. It does not stop. History invalidates your conclusions. Thanks for getting it out there; I appreciate it.

yet you still dont get it
you are totally batshit crazy insane delusional

No, JS is intellectually dishonest. Just ignore it. It is a waste of air and time. He's the John Cleese character in the Argument Clinic sketch! Only nowhere near as smart!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y[/ame]

 

[CMike]

CMike, et al,

It's impossible to prove a negative. You can only show that no one can show it's true.

For some reason they think that their own opinion is proof

Prove that the 11 points are incorrect.

Prove that the chief of Israeli counterintelligence and Sada were wrong.

Prove that the 500 chemical weapons found in Iraq were not WMD.

Opinion is not proof .

(COMMENT)

• Former Air Vice-Marshal Georges Hormis Sada, Iraqi Air Force, said what he said to make his book deal. There has to be something spectacular in the book, or no one would buy it. And the Syrians just love the rumor, because that would make them the top dog in the Middle East. But no one is buying that story, except for the Americans. There will be always those that cling to that rumor.
  
• As for Israeli disinformation, the Israelis are not the allies people think they are (Remember the USS Liberty). It is to there advantage if they could convince the US Intelligence Community that there are weapons in the hands of the Syrian (State Supporters of Terrorism). That would drag us into another war that would serve simply to eliminate another Israeli opponent. The Israelis would love for us to invade any nation hostile to them. We would be their proxy warriors.

Don't be so easily fooled. If the Syrians had viable (weapons grade) WMD, then simply storage is not all there is to it. That material requires maintenance; it has a shelf life, and the Syrian could not do this all on their own without it coming the the attention of all the assets (non-US) that are looking at them everyday.

(WHO ARE YOU GOING TO BELIEVE?)

You have a choice, as to who you are going to believe. VAM Sada and Israeli Intelligence, "OR" the CIA chief weapons inspector in Iraq, Dr David Kay, Iraq Survey Group (ISG)?

KAY: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

As you know and we discussed, I do not have a written statement. This hearing came about very quickly. I do have a few preliminary comments, but I suspect you're more interested in asking questions, and I'll be happy to respond to those questions to the best of my ability.

I would like to open by saying that the talent, dedication and bravery of the staff of the ISG that was my privilege to direct is unparalleled and the country owes a great debt of gratitude to the men and women who have served over there and continue to serve doing that.

A great deal has been accomplished by the team, and I do think -- I echo what you said, Senator -- I think it important that it goes on and it is allowed to reach its full conclusion. In fact, I really believe it ought to be better resourced and totally focused on WMD; that that is important to do it.

But I also believe that it is time to begin the fundamental analysis of how we got here, what led us here and what we need to do in order to ensure that we are equipped with the best possible intelligence as we face these issues in the future.

KAY: Let me begin by saying, we were almost all wrong, and I certainly include myself here.

Senator Kennedy knows very directly. Senator Kennedy and I talked on several occasions prior to the war that my view was that the best evidence that I had seen was that Iraq, indeed, had weapons of mass destruction.

I would also point out that many governments that chose not to support this war -- certainly, the French president, Chirac, as I recall in April of last year, referred to Iraq's possession of WMD. The German certainly -- the intelligence service believed that there were WMD.

It turns out that we were all wrong, probably in my judgment, and that is most disturbing.

We're also in a period in which we've had intelligence surprises in the proliferation area that go the other way. The case of Iran, a nuclear program that the Iranians admit was 18 years on, that we underestimated. And, in fact, we didn't discover it. It was discovered by a group of Iranian dissidents outside the country who pointed the international community at the location.

The ISG did an outstanding job. And they had access to all the information you could have wanted. They too knew about the battlefield remnants. But they were looking for the material that the IC predicted. They were looking for the useable material and the project documentation and plans. They busted their ass, and wanted nothing more than to go back to The President and report: They found it! But that's not what they discovered; not at all.

Most Respectfully,
R

Also I care nothing about what the UN shits said because they opposed the war. All of a sudden because they opposed the US, they changed their tune. The UN has long been the enemy of the United States and freedom.

 

[CMike]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM[/ame]

 

[JakeStarkey]

Westwall tells lies because he knows the truth and attempst to cover his intellectual dishonesty in accusations he can't support.

The WMDs did not exist when we invaded Iraq, or we would have found them. Rove said Bush would never have invaded Iraq otherwise. If the WMDs had been there, the administration would have told us.

Thus . . . they did not exist.

The fringers and wing nuts and the lunatics crack me up. The scary thing is that folks CMike ande Westwall and CrusaderFrank and conhog and bigrebnc and Jack Fate walk among us as if they are normal. That is scarier than halloween.

 

[CMike]

Westwall tells lies because he knows the truth and attempst to cover his intellectual dishonesty in accusations he can't support.

The WMDs did not exist when we invaded Iraq, or we would have found them. Rove said Bush would never have invaded Iraq otherwise. If the WMDs had been there, the administration would have told us.

Thus . . . they did not exist.

The fringers and wing nuts and the lunatics crack me up. The scary thing is that folks CMike ande Westwall and CrusaderFrank and conhog and bigrebnc and Jack Fate walk among us as if they are normal. That is scarier than halloween.

Prove that Rove said that.

Also I don't consider using one of your left wing sources that tries to plug in two words taken out of context as proving it.

That said I care what Pres. Bush said, not Rove.

Pres. Bush gave 11 distinct reasons for invading Iraq which I showed in context.

What is scary about the libs is that they consider what their Emperious Leader to be fact. They don't have the brains to actually challenge anything they say or see if it's true or not.

That's why they are so fucked up.

 

[DiveCon]

Westwall tells lies because he knows the truth and attempst to cover his intellectual dishonesty in accusations he can't support.

The WMDs did not exist when we invaded Iraq, or we would have found them. Rove said Bush would never have invaded Iraq otherwise. If the WMDs had been there, the administration would have told us.

Thus . . . they did not exist.

The fringers and wing nuts and the lunatics crack me up. The scary thing is that folks CMike ande Westwall and CrusaderFrank and conhog and bigrebnc and Jack Fate walk among us as if they are normal. That is scarier than halloween.

you are the lunatic delusional fringe
you just think you are mainstream
but then i did say you were DELUSIONAL

 

[JakeStarkey]

Rove said it, and you know it. What you consider is a reputable source is immaterial, because you are loony. Bush's reasons for WMDs did not prove out, and nothing anyone has posted has changed that. Anyone who defends neo-conservatism is an enemy of American goodness and principles.