Zone1 Why was Jesus crucified?

[surada]

I am fascinated. You believe Jesus supported Roman control of Judea?

Read the sermon on the mount.

 

[irosie91]

Read the sermon on the mount.

I read it----what point are you struggling to make?

 

[surada]

I read it----what point are you struggling to make?

Shame the enemy...MLK and Gandhi studied non violent resistance.

 

[irosie91]

Shame the enemy...MLK and Gandhi studied non violent resistance.

you could squeeze that idea into parts of whatever the shill for Rome, Matthew,
transcribed from aramaic into Greek or even "LOVE DA ROMANS" ----if such an
endeavor meets with your standard for scholarly pursuits

 

[norwegen]

Okay, just out of curiosity, I started reading one of rosends' links. The second one. After a couple of errors in the piece, I finally stopped at this one:

As we all know, there was a double agent in the room. Judas left the meal to betray Jesus to the Romans. Perhaps he was working for them all along. What he betrayed to the Romans was the route Jesus would take to leave the city after the meal, through the Garden of Gethsemane. And since Jesus was from Galilee and not well known in Jerusalem, the Romans would need someone to identify him by sight to the Roman authorities. Judas accomplished this by kissing Jesus to mark him as the one.​

Judas did not betray Jesus to the Romans. He betrayed him to the Jews. And that nonsense about the route Jesus would take is just ridiculous, completely embellished.

This is why I don't read "sources" from futurists and others who don't know the New Testament. Reading error is just a waste of time. It only imparts more confusion, which is why Christians are so confused.

 

[irosie91]

you could squeeze that idea into parts of whatever the shill for Rome, Matthew,
transcribed from aramaic into Greek or even "LOVE DA ROMANS" ----if such an
endeavor meets with your standard for scholarly pursuits

suradie DISAGREED----I am not sure as to what she alludes---in her 'disagreement'
Is it the fact that Matthew the ROMAN APPOINTED TAX COLLECTOR was
a shill for Rome?----well were he not he would not have that lucrative job. It is a
fact that the putative "SERMON ON THE MOUNT" is written----putatively BY MATTHEW
in Greek-----not Aramaic, the language of Jesus and the masses. There is more---the
content of that Greek writing----something like---"YOU HAVE BEEN COMMANDED TO HATE
YOUR ENEMIES" where does that commandment come up? -----and knock out their teeth?
Very IMAGINATIVE. It must have gotten screwed up in translation

 

[irosie91]

Okay, just out of curiosity, I started reading one of rosends' links. The second one. After a couple of errors in the piece, I finally stopped at this one:

As we all know, there was a double agent in the room. Judas left the meal to betray Jesus to the Romans. Perhaps he was working for them all along. What he betrayed to the Romans was the route Jesus would take to leave the city after the meal, through the Garden of Gethsemane. And since Jesus was from Galilee and not well known in Jerusalem, the Romans would need someone to identify him by sight to the Roman authorities. Judas accomplished this by kissing Jesus to mark him as the one.​

Judas did not betray Jesus to the Romans. He betrayed him to the Jews. And that nonsense about the route Jesus would take is just ridiculous, completely embellished.

This is why I don't read "sources" from futurists and others who don't know the New Testament. Reading error is just a waste of time. It only imparts more confusion, which is why Christians are so confused.

who did the ridiculous "embellishing" The JEWS WERE LOOKING FOR JESUS but could not
find him|?------what happened to the theory that the MASSES LOVED HIM so much that the
JOOOS were "afraid" to kill him? How did DA JOOOS HATE him so much but had no idea who
he was??? As to the Jew involved---the only one of importance was CAIAPHAS----uniformly
despised TO THIS day by DA JOOOOS and their descendants-----you got a problem Mr Wegen.
Read the BS AGAIN. I read the OT and the NT----not the FUTURISTS----the contradictions
are GLARING. I do agree that christians are confused----it's jelly bean school where christian
children come out believing that DA CRUCIFIXION is a unique CHRISTIAN EVENT done by
JOOOS because Jesus ate bacon and eggs for breakfast

 

[BreezeWood]

How did DA JOOOS HATE him so much but had no idea who
he was???

norway got that wrong ...

the jews hated - liberation theology, self determination - jesus so much they paid judas to point him out to the romans, obviously the romans hadn't a clue who they were looking for. sent by the jews to begin with -

91 do tell, is that in the jewish book - their meeting and conspiracy w/ judas ... beforehand.

 

[irosie91]

norway got that wrong ...

the jews hated - liberation theology, self determination - jesus so much they paid judas to point him out to the romans, obviously the romans hadn't a clue who they were looking for. sent by the jews to begin with -

91 do tell, is that in the jewish book - their meeting and conspiracy w/ judas ... beforehand.

There is no discussion of that which you call "liberation theology" in any Jewish literature
that I know of. I do not know how to say that phrase in hebrew. There is extensive discussion
on the issue of CHOICE---but the issue of CHOICE, is, clearly, not YOUR ISSUE

 

[BreezeWood]

There is no discussion of that which you call "liberation theology" in any Jewish literature
that I know of.

of course not, its not in the moses lexicon of servitude - nor self determination ... cry a river - liberation - theology - are not words spoken in hebrew ... how about hereditary idolatry - not that one for sure.

well, that's why hebrew was a dead language, fittingly so and now the jews want to resurrect it.

just like christians want the religious to read their book of forgeries and fallacies the c-bible when that book is riddled with evil all through it.

- and they wonder, what happened to jesus.

 

[seaofnails]

.

We must go to the original manuscripts of scriptures to understand the truth that Yahashua, the Anointing / Jesus - Is “ God “ himself manifested in flesh.

Notice the passage here in - Col 2:9

:9 For in him { Jesus } dwelled all the fulfillment of the divinity bodily.

The scriptures explain how God manifested his divinity on earth, within this man : Jesus : was the Spirit of the Father manifested in the flesh, this man was a physical manifestation of God’s invisible spirit which was the fulfillment,

fulfillment - meaning = the completion, accomplishment, performance, achievement, - of God’s divinity to mankind, the fulfillment of the divinity bodily.

This Greek word Divinity / Divine
“ divinity “ has a meaning that is much more than to just simply posses an attribute of deification, worship veneration, glorification, exaltation, and worship


But the word “ DIVINITY “ applied to the God of the Bible indicates his Omniscience, all knowing - and power of divinization, knowledge of the future discerning, forecasting, foretelling, perceiving and prophesy as fore - knowledge

God is a spirit, invisible and unseen and cannot be seen, therefore this is explained further in Rom 1:20

:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and divinity ; - so that they are without excuse:

So….. Jesus Christ was born, conceived by the Spirit, Holy - so that mankind can clearly see and understand - the Spirit’s eternal power and divinity


Heb 1: 1 – 2 explains
:1 Many ways, also various ways, long ago the God spoke to their fathers

:2 in their prophets unto these last of days, of these, he spoke to them in his son upon whom is given heir, of whom also this is forever done

:3 Who being the emanation / radiating of his glory, and the express image of his confidence , and upholding all things by the word of his power,


Jesus is the glory and confidence that has been emanated / flowed out, issued out, or proceeded out , come forth from the spirit of God and the purpose of Jesus was to - by himself, purge our sins and sat down in the right of the Majesty in high; - his son is given heir to the throne of God because the son literally has emanated / flowed out, issued out, or proceeded out , come forth ( OUT OF ) from the spirit of God

:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Jesus is the called literally - THE ANOINTING - THE CHRIST - he is the literal anointing of the Spirit, Holy Of God, - the spirit of the Father

The Greek word CHRIST means Anointing or Anointed - in him { Jesus } dwelled all the fulfillment of the divinity bodily.
- the Spirit of God - was the very Spirit of Yahashua.

As Peter clearly says in 1Pe 1:10 “ CONCERNING THE SPIRIT OF GOD INSIDE THE OLD TESTAMENT PROPHETS “

:10 The prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
:11 Searching what, or what manner of time “ THE SPIRIT OF THE ANOINTING / CHRIST “ WHICH WAS IN THEM - did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of THE ANOINTING / CHRIST :

We see clearly that the very same Spirit of Jesus himself, was the very same Spirit that had been previously been sent to earth - as “ THE SPIRIT OF ANOINTING “ - – in / inside the prophets in the Old testament..Jesus was made to benefit mankind because he is the ANOINTING of the Spirit, Holy -- BEING THE LITERAL ANOINTING OF GOD - MEANS - the installation, placement, application, positioning, stationing, appointment, applying of the Spirit, Holy Of The God in our lives.

To apply to be the application

His Spirit is the invisible Spirit, Holy of the Father Creator in the manifestation, form of what is being applied, ANOINTED - placed, applied, positioned, stationed, appointed, working, rubbing, moving anointing - the idea of contact; to smear or rub with oil, to handle); to furnish what is needed; , to apply and to use.

This is the role of Jesus the Anointing that Gods Spirit has applied HIS SACRIFICE for our salvation and also for communication to Him, the eternal spirit, Jesus is the eternal God because his very spirit was the Spirit, Holy In the beginning was the word that is the creative power and creating force of the Spirit of God,

this word, that is God himself, this word is creating literally creating and conceiving itself as a manifestation of the Spirit, Holy, the Father conceiving himself - in the womb of a woman - the word was with God - the word was God - the word was made flesh.

Here in - 1Pe 1:2, - The ““ SPIRIT OF GOD HIMSELF ““ - has sanctified the blood of Jesus Christ unto obedience and the blood of the Spirit, Holy has been showered and sprinkled literally as Jesus himself - ““ The Anointing ““

1Pe 1:2 through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Spirit Holy hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased WITH HIS OWN BLOOD

Jesus is literally the blood of the Spirit, Holy - whom the Spirit of God himself had conceived as himself - God’s very own spirit conceived himself in the likeness of sinful flesh.
This is why it was important for God to conceive himself formed as the manifestation or form / morph of Jesus, the anointing of his Spirit, Holy. His blood was sanctified by the eternal spirit of the Father, the Spirit Of The Holy that dwelled in him.

Heb 13:12 Therefore also Jesus that sanctified by his own blood the people outside the gate, suffered

MANUSCRIPTS - :12 διο Therefore - και also - ιησους Jesus - ινα that - αγιαση sanctified - δια by - του his - ιδιου own - αιματος blood - τον the - λαον people - εξω ouside - της the - πυλης gate,, - επαθεν suffered

 

[irosie91]

.

We must go to the original manuscripts of scriptures to understand the truth that Yahashua, the Anointing / Jesus - Is “ God “ himself manifested in flesh.

Notice the passage here in - Col 2:9

:9 For in him { Jesus } dwelled all the fulfillment of the divinity bodily.

The scriptures explain how God manifested his divinity on earth, within this man : Jesus : was the Spirit of the Father manifested in the flesh, this man was a physical manifestation of God’s invisible spirit which was the fulfillment,

fulfillment - meaning = the completion, accomplishment, performance, achievement, - of God’s divinity to mankind, the fulfillment of the divinity bodily.

This Greek word Divinity / Divine
“ divinity “ has a meaning that is much more than to just simply posses an attribute of deification, worship veneration, glorification, exaltation, and worship


But the word “ DIVINITY “ applied to the God of the Bible indicates his Omniscience, all knowing - and power of divinization, knowledge of the future discerning, forecasting, foretelling, perceiving and prophesy as fore - knowledge

God is a spirit, invisible and unseen and cannot be seen, therefore this is explained further in Rom 1:20

:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and divinity ; - so that they are without excuse:

So….. Jesus Christ was born, conceived by the Spirit, Holy - so that mankind can clearly see and understand - the Spirit’s eternal power and divinity


Heb 1: 1 – 2 explains
:1 Many ways, also various ways, long ago the God spoke to their fathers

:2 in their prophets unto these last of days, of these, he spoke to them in his son upon whom is given heir, of whom also this is forever done

:3 Who being the emanation / radiating of his glory, and the express image of his confidence , and upholding all things by the word of his power,


Jesus is the glory and confidence that has been emanated / flowed out, issued out, or proceeded out , come forth from the spirit of God and the purpose of Jesus was to - by himself, purge our sins and sat down in the right of the Majesty in high; - his son is given heir to the throne of God because the son literally has emanated / flowed out, issued out, or proceeded out , come forth ( OUT OF ) from the spirit of God

:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Jesus is the called literally - THE ANOINTING - THE CHRIST - he is the literal anointing of the Spirit, Holy Of God, - the spirit of the Father

The Greek word CHRIST means Anointing or Anointed - in him { Jesus } dwelled all the fulfillment of the divinity bodily.
- the Spirit of God - was the very Spirit of Yahashua.

As Peter clearly says in 1Pe 1:10 “ CONCERNING THE SPIRIT OF GOD INSIDE THE OLD TESTAMENT PROPHETS “

:10 The prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
:11 Searching what, or what manner of time “ THE SPIRIT OF THE ANOINTING / CHRIST “ WHICH WAS IN THEM - did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of THE ANOINTING / CHRIST :

We see clearly that the very same Spirit of Jesus himself, was the very same Spirit that had been previously been sent to earth - as “ THE SPIRIT OF ANOINTING “ - – in / inside the prophets in the Old testament..Jesus was made to benefit mankind because he is the ANOINTING of the Spirit, Holy -- BEING THE LITERAL ANOINTING OF GOD - MEANS - the installation, placement, application, positioning, stationing, appointment, applying of the Spirit, Holy Of The God in our lives.

To apply to be the application

His Spirit is the invisible Spirit, Holy of the Father Creator in the manifestation, form of what is being applied, ANOINTED - placed, applied, positioned, stationed, appointed, working, rubbing, moving anointing - the idea of contact; to smear or rub with oil, to handle); to furnish what is needed; , to apply and to use.

This is the role of Jesus the Anointing that Gods Spirit has applied HIS SACRIFICE for our salvation and also for communication to Him, the eternal spirit, Jesus is the eternal God because his very spirit was the Spirit, Holy In the beginning was the word that is the creative power and creating force of the Spirit of God,

this word, that is God himself, this word is creating literally creating and conceiving itself as a manifestation of the Spirit, Holy, the Father conceiving himself - in the womb of a woman - the word was with God - the word was God - the word was made flesh.

Here in - 1Pe 1:2, - The ““ SPIRIT OF GOD HIMSELF ““ - has sanctified the blood of Jesus Christ unto obedience and the blood of the Spirit, Holy has been showered and sprinkled literally as Jesus himself - ““ The Anointing ““

1Pe 1:2 through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Spirit Holy hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased WITH HIS OWN BLOOD

Jesus is literally the blood of the Spirit, Holy - whom the Spirit of God himself had conceived as himself - God’s very own spirit conceived himself in the likeness of sinful flesh.
This is why it was important for God to conceive himself formed as the manifestation or form / morph of Jesus, the anointing of his Spirit, Holy. His blood was sanctified by the eternal spirit of the Father, the Spirit Of The Holy that dwelled in him.

Heb 13:12 Therefore also Jesus that sanctified by his own blood the people outside the gate, suffered

MANUSCRIPTS - :12 διο Therefore - και also - ιησους Jesus - ινα that - αγιαση sanctified - δια by - του his - ιδιου own - αιματος blood - τον the - λαον people - εξω ouside - της the - πυλης gate,, - επαθεν suffered

YOU found the ORIGINIAL MANUSCRPTS??????? Does the FBI KNOW----( don't let the
Vatican get their greedy fingers on them!!!!)

 

[tyroneweaver]

This is in response to the thread about why Jews reject Jesus as Messiah

Answer this question and you get your answer to the other thread.

After all, the rejection of Jesus by the Jewish leaders of the time of Jesus is why he was rejected by Jews today.

The Gospel is what it is. It's not my idea. But I'm compelled to live by it
It is an interesting concept the idea of The Crucifixion paying for out sins

 

[irosie91]

Okay, just out of curiosity, I started reading one of rosends' links. The second one. After a couple of errors in the piece, I finally stopped at this one:

As we all know, there was a double agent in the room. Judas left the meal to betray Jesus to the Romans. Perhaps he was working for them all along. What he betrayed to the Romans was the route Jesus would take to leave the city after the meal, through the Garden of Gethsemane. And since Jesus was from Galilee and not well known in Jerusalem, the Romans would need someone to identify him by sight to the Roman authorities. Judas accomplished this by kissing Jesus to mark him as the one.​

Judas did not betray Jesus to the Romans. He betrayed him to the Jews. And that nonsense about the route Jesus would take is just ridiculous, completely embellished.

This is why I don't read "sources" from futurists and others who don't know the New Testament. Reading error is just a waste of time. It only imparts more confusion, which is why Christians are so confused.

your version----Mr. wegen----is even more idiotic than is Constantine's. According to you
"the jews" hated jesus so much that they wanted to "force" the Romans to kill him but
could not even recognize the VERY FAMOUS PUBLIC PREACHER and MIRACLE WORKER---
and, somehow, -----had no idea how to kill a person. Can you cite some evidence that
"the jews" hated Jesus? According to Wikki-----the high priests (roman appointees ) did
"the jews" who hated Jesus, the popular miracle man, a favor by paying Judas to ID him?

 

[irosie91]

norway got that wrong ...

the jews hated - liberation theology, self determination - jesus so much they paid judas to point him out to the romans, obviously the romans hadn't a clue who they were looking for. sent by the jews to begin with -

91 do tell, is that in the jewish book - their meeting and conspiracy w/ judas ... beforehand.

according to the NT-----it was the (roman appointed) high priests that paid Judas to
ID Jesus so that guards---most likely Roman soldiers, could arrest him. As to the HATED
Jesus---there are plenty of writings from that time but none that mention Jesus

 

[BreezeWood]

- there are plenty of writings from that time but none that mention Jesus ...

so true, not a relief of any kind - stone, clay, mosaic or script. almost so as to have been purposely made to be ... liberation theology obviously was not golden during that time.

Yes, (******) were fed to half-starved lions, burned alive, and hacked to death, but the most interesting aspect of this was that the (******) who died in the Colosseum wanted to die there as martyrs.

not even 91 can dispute those that died as jesus died - and did so for the same reason - they were neither jew nor roman - nor the yet to be 4th century christians.

the 1st century events were a repudiation of both rome and religion and who's aspirants (religion of antiquity) sadly died in vane as their hopes and dreams were diminished entirely by the crucifiers c-bible and the already existent jewish documents.

 

[irosie91]

so true, not a relief of any kind - stone, clay, mosaic or script. almost so as to have been purposely made to be ... liberation theology obviously was not golden during that time.



not even 91 can dispute those that died as jesus died - and did so for the same reason - they were neither jew nor roman - nor the yet to be 4th century christians.

the 1st century events were a repudiation of both rome and religion and who's aspirants (religion of antiquity) sadly died in vane as their hopes and dreams were diminished entirely by the crucifiers c-bible and the already existent jewish documents.

"died in vane..." ??? uhm they were tied to weather vanes and left to BLOW IN THE WIND?
Crucifixion is thought to have been an horrific form of execution invented in ancient Persia.
The Greeks picked it up and used it, especially the SPARTANS against rebellious HELOTS
(the slave caste in Sparta)----Later on Greek despots like ALEXANDER used to for
rebels. Rome used it for the same reason----conquered people or slaves who rebelled
AGAINST ROME. It is true that ROME considered itself "HOLY"----just as Alexander's
Greece was "holy" -----thus Alexander and the Caesars were "HOLY" It is true that the
Greek and Roman POV could be considered "cult like" but there were religions thruout
the world in the first century and many adherents to this or that faith-----none called
"the religion of antiquity"

 

[irosie91]

Shame the enemy...MLK and Gandhi studied non violent resistance.

the semon on the mount has nothing to do with "shaming the enemy". In fact,
it is kinda a nice summary of conciliation which was a very considerable issue
at the time------OPENLY advocated by recognized famous people-----or, at least
DISCUSSED. Josephus Flavius was an opened CONCILIATOR-----IMHO Philo runs
a close second. Much later on, even MAIMONIDES was a conciliator----with islam.
MLK and Gandhi too----CONCILIATORS ------a first of all "LET"S SURVIVE" During
World War II-----they came to be called KAPOS

 

[surada]

the semon on the mount has nothing to do with "shaming the enemy". In fact,
it is kinda a nice summary of conciliation which was a very considerable issue
at the time------OPENLY advocated by recognized famous people-----or, at least
DISCUSSED. Josephus Flavius was an opened CONCILIATOR-----IMHO Philo runs
a close second. Much later on, even MAIMONIDES was a conciliator----with islam.
MLK and Gandhi too----CONCILIATORS ------a first of all "LET"S SURVIVE" During
World War II-----they came to be called KAPOS

They sermon on the mount specifically addresses egregious, oppressive Roman laws that insulted and humiliated the Jews. Jesus was teaching coping mechanisms. The point being that his kingdom was not of this world. Any astute observer could see that a day of reckoning was coming.. It hadn't been long since the temple was defiled by Antiochus and the Maccabean wars.

The Jews couldn't win against the power of Rome..So yes, it was about survival.

 

[irosie91]

They sermon on the mount specifically addresses egregious, oppressive Roman laws that insulted and humiliated the Jews. Jesus was teaching coping mechanisms. The point being that his kingdom was not of this world. Any astute observer could see that a day of reckoning was coming.. It hadn't been long since the temple was defiled by Antiochus and the Maccabean wars.

The Jews couldn't win against the power of Rome..So yes, it was about survival.

They sermon on the mount specifically addresses egregious, oppressive Roman laws that insulted and humiliated the Jews. Jesus was teaching coping mechanisms. The point being that his kingdom was not of this world. Any astute observer could see that a day of reckoning was coming.. It hadn't been long since the temple was defiled by Antiochus and the Maccabean wars.

The Jews couldn't win against the power of Rome..So yes, it was about survival.

you jumped to yet another, somewhat, ludicrous theory that includes the notion that
Jesus supported Roman rule----AND delivered an important sermon to jews in a
very important venue---THE MOUNT OF OLIVES-----in greek---which most jews at that
time did not understand, nor is there evidence that Jesus did. Just what ASTUTE
observation of the future of the Roman empire did Jesus mention?----but you did admit
something surprising-----JESUS WANTED DA JOOOS TO SURVIVE THE FILTH OF ROME
just as Maimonides wanted da jooos to survive the filth of islam and the roman church.
Not bad for a jellybeaner