Why should I care?

[Quantum Windbag]

I have a lot of friends who are a bit less than incensed that innocent people are in prison. They seem to have the idea that it is a lot worse that a guilty person goes free than that an innocent person spends time in jail. Let us examine what really happens when an innocent person spends time in jail.

The police, and everyone else, stops looking for the guilty person. This means that every time an innocent person gets arrested and convicted at least one guilty person goes free. that means that because the prosecutor in this case convinced a jury that this guy committed the crime, even though evidence at the time excluded him, a child molester was able to continue walking the streets and victimizing others.

Tell me, how can you not care?

 

[Care4all]

get rid of those friends....they are inhuman....

 

[AllieBaba]

I think this is actually a good reason to get rid of the death penalty. Not that I don't believe that most good people are willing to live with the chance they may someday be imprisoned for something they didn't do if it means we are able to serve justice MOST of the time....

But without the death penalty at least we wouldn't actually be responsible for KILLING any innocent people.

 

[AllieBaba]

I just don't see the benefit of the death penalty anymore. I think we learn more by studying people, I don't think it saves any money to kill them, and what a horrible example to set. Let killers live with their sin, pray for their salvation, and keep society safe. There's really no need for execution anymore.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I just don't see the benefit of the death penalty anymore. I think we learn more by studying people, I don't think it saves any money to kill them, and what a horrible example to set. Let killers live with their sin, pray for their salvation, and keep society safe. There's really no need for execution anymore.

Yup, put them in prison for life with no parole. WAIT a minute, you say they never get out, have no chance of ever getting out? What is to stop them from simply murdering and raping in prison? You gonna give them ANOTHER life sentence?

Yup, we study them, explain again how repeat offenders are HELPED by your study? Explain how when a person simply does NOT CARE about human life or other people's property and does not CARE that they will do time, explain how no death penalty keeps the rest of us SAFE?

I personally believe the only problem with the Death Penalty is it does not occur fast enough for those convicted. States should work like the Federal system, with in at most 5 years of conviction they should be dead or exonerated.

And we should SHOW ALL State sanctioned executions in PRIME TIME.

 

[Care4all]

do you think ONLY the people in prison for murder are the ones that commit murder, while in prison rgs?

why not just kill all prisoners so none of them can kill another prisoner...sheesh

 

[George Costanza]

This isn't a death penalty thread. It's a thread about innocent people being convicted.

I often pose the following question to potential jurors: "It has been said it is better that 10 guilty persons go free than that one innocent person be convicted. Do you agree with that statement?"

How they answer that question many times determines whether or not they will sit on my jury.

 

[AllieBaba]

I just don't see the benefit of the death penalty anymore. I think we learn more by studying people, I don't think it saves any money to kill them, and what a horrible example to set. Let killers live with their sin, pray for their salvation, and keep society safe. There's really no need for execution anymore.

Yup, put them in prison for life with no parole. WAIT a minute, you say they never get out, have no chance of ever getting out? What is to stop them from simply murdering and raping in prison? You gonna give them ANOTHER life sentence?

Yup, we study them, explain again how repeat offenders are HELPED by your study? Explain how when a person simply does NOT CARE about human life or other people's property and does not CARE that they will do time, explain how no death penalty keeps the rest of us SAFE?

I personally believe the only problem with the Death Penalty is it does not occur fast enough for those convicted. States should work like the Federal system, with in at most 5 years of conviction they should be dead or exonerated.

And we should SHOW ALL State sanctioned executions in PRIME TIME.

Well I certainly held that opinion for many years. I'm older now, though, and less blood thirsty, and further along in my walk with God. I don't see how, as a Christian, I can sanction the death penalty. Honestly, I'm not too concerned about increased risk to prisoners; part of the horror of prison is being shut up with other criminals. I don't like the idea of taking away the opportunity of salvation.

I do understand how and why people support the death penalty, I supported it for years. I just no longer see how it's a good thing. Eventually I'll probably become an outright pacifist as well (but that hasn't happened yet!)

I don't care if the executions are shown, that's fine. And really, I'm not interested in studying criminals for the sake of the criminals themselves. It's about learning the things that come together to create a killer in the first place, and trying to avoid them. Many of those on death row are there for atrocities committed while under the influence; some have organic brain issues. I wish that were more widely publicized, because it might help us in providing the correct support to people with those issues, to keep them from derailing completely.

I know. I'm one of the few who actually has compassion for criminals. Please don't think it means I have none for victims; I do. I have just seen up close and personal how many people live so close to the edge that I appreciate how little it takes for a relatively normal schlep to go off the deep end. It's scary and I'm moved by how it can happen in any family.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This isn't a death penalty thread. It's a thread about innocent people being convicted.

I often pose the following question to potential jurors: "It has been said it is better that 10 guilty persons go free than that one innocent person be convicted. Do you agree with that statement?"

How they answer that question many times determines whether or not they will sit on my jury.

Can you oust them for cause if they think it is the other way around?

Thanks for the stab at keeping this about innocents being convicted. I love arguing about the death penalty myself, but that is a different thread.

 

[George Costanza]

This isn't a death penalty thread. It's a thread about innocent people being convicted.

I often pose the following question to potential jurors: "It has been said it is better that 10 guilty persons go free than that one innocent person be convicted. Do you agree with that statement?"

How they answer that question many times determines whether or not they will sit on my jury.

Can you oust them for cause if they think it is the other way around?

Thanks for the stab at keeping this about innocents being convicted. I love arguing about the death penalty myself, but that is a different thread.

The defense should be able to challenge a juror for cause if they disagree with the stated premise - but hardly any judge will allow it. Judges are prosecution minded. The get off on the idea of having a prosecution minded juror on the jury. So they will "rehabilitate" the juror by jumping in with something like, "Well, all right, Juror No. Seven, I understand that you think it would be better that 100 innocent people be convicted than that one guilty person go free and I also understand you think that if someone has been arrested, they are probably guilty and that all defendants and their attorneys are liars. But, in spite of these thoughts, can you still be fair?" Juror No. 7: "Oh, yes, your honor. Of course."
His Honor: "Very well. Thank you Juror No. 7. Challenge for cause denied."

That's the way it works in the real world.

 

[George Costanza]

I don't see how, as a Christian, I can sanction the death penalty.

I don't either. Too bad more of your brethren do not share you view.

And now, back to the theme of the thread - which is innocent people being convicted.

 

[ConHog]

I just don't see the benefit of the death penalty anymore. I think we learn more by studying people, I don't think it saves any money to kill them, and what a horrible example to set. Let killers live with their sin, pray for their salvation, and keep society safe. There's really no need for execution anymore.

Yup, put them in prison for life with no parole. WAIT a minute, you say they never get out, have no chance of ever getting out? What is to stop them from simply murdering and raping in prison? You gonna give them ANOTHER life sentence?

Yup, we study them, explain again how repeat offenders are HELPED by your study? Explain how when a person simply does NOT CARE about human life or other people's property and does not CARE that they will do time, explain how no death penalty keeps the rest of us SAFE?

I personally believe the only problem with the Death Penalty is it does not occur fast enough for those convicted. States should work like the Federal system, with in at most 5 years of conviction they should be dead or exonerated.

And we should SHOW ALL State sanctioned executions in PRIME TIME.

Well I certainly held that opinion for many years. I'm older now, though, and less blood thirsty, and further along in my walk with God. I don't see how, as a Christian, I can sanction the death penalty. Honestly, I'm not too concerned about increased risk to prisoners; part of the horror of prison is being shut up with other criminals. I don't like the idea of taking away the opportunity of salvation.

I do understand how and why people support the death penalty, I supported it for years. I just no longer see how it's a good thing. Eventually I'll probably become an outright pacifist as well (but that hasn't happened yet!)

I don't care if the executions are shown, that's fine. And really, I'm not interested in studying criminals for the sake of the criminals themselves. It's about learning the things that come together to create a killer in the first place, and trying to avoid them. Many of those on death row are there for atrocities committed while under the influence; some have organic brain issues. I wish that were more widely publicized, because it might help us in providing the correct support to people with those issues, to keep them from derailing completely.

I know. I'm one of the few who actually has compassion for criminals. Please don't think it means I have none for victims; I do. I have just seen up close and personal how many people live so close to the edge that I appreciate how little it takes for a relatively normal schlep to go off the deep end. It's scary and I'm moved by how it can happen in any family.

I believe in the death penalty, but only for the most heinous of crimes; and only when the defendant has been completely found to be mentally fit and has exhausted all legal appeals.

Probably more people would agree with you Allie if life actually meant life, But life often means 10 years in prison, and that is a failure.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This isn't a death penalty thread. It's a thread about innocent people being convicted.

I often pose the following question to potential jurors: "It has been said it is better that 10 guilty persons go free than that one innocent person be convicted. Do you agree with that statement?"

How they answer that question many times determines whether or not they will sit on my jury.

Can you oust them for cause if they think it is the other way around?

Thanks for the stab at keeping this about innocents being convicted. I love arguing about the death penalty myself, but that is a different thread.

The defense should be able to challenge a juror for cause if they disagree with the stated premise - but hardly any judge will allow it. Judges are prosecution minded. The get off on the idea of having a prosecution minded juror on the jury. So they will "rehabilitate" the juror by jumping in with something like, "Well, all right, Juror No. Seven, I understand that you think it would be better that 100 innocent people be convicted than that one guilty person go free and I also understand you think that if someone has been arrested, they are probably guilty and that all defendants and their attorneys are liars. But, in spite of these thoughts, can you still be fair?" Juror No. 7: "Oh, yes, your honor. Of course."
His Honor: "Very well. Thank you Juror No. 7. Challenge for cause denied."

That's the way it works in the real world.

Which might explain why so many innocent people are in jail. Couple that with prosecutorial and police misconduct and innocent people do not have a chance.

 

[rikules]

I have a lot of friends who are a bit less than incensed that innocent people are in prison. They seem to have the idea that it is a lot worse that a guilty person goes free than that an innocent person spends time in jail. Let us examine what really happens when an innocent person spends time in jail.

The police, and everyone else, stops looking for the guilty person. This means that every time an innocent person gets arrested and convicted at least one guilty person goes free. that means that because the prosecutor in this case convinced a jury that this guy committed the crime, even though evidence at the time excluded him, a child molester was able to continue walking the streets and victimizing others.

Tell me, how can you not care?

They would care a LOT more if it happened to them.

 

[Madeline]

I agree with you intellectually, Quantum Windbag. I have some serious doubts about the convictions of some famous prisoners (Wayne Williams, for one...the "Atlanta Child Killer") and yet somehow, my gut twists more over the crimes that are never solved.

It's stupid and silly...when an innocent person is convicted, the crime is still unsolved. In fact, these miscarriages of justice practically guarantee the crime will never be solved. And the suffering of an innocent person in prison just begars the imagination.