Why Progressives always call it "Reform"

[Big Fitz]

My analysis is so spot on it's staggering.

Progressives have honed to perfection the the notion of selling a fundamental transformation as "reform" with Health Care "reform" and banking "reform" being the 2 most recent examples.

Health Care "Reform" is a total, fundamental rewrite of the relationship between the Government and the people (subjects or conquered also fits) The government directs you what you MUST purchase and then monitors you forever! That's "reform"

And because they don't want their game exposed, they come here still telling me/us, "Who are you going to believe us or your lying eyes?"

A 2,000 page document no one read, and Democrats (Sen Dingell) are now on record as saying it finally gives them the control they've sought for the past 100 years over the American people, but I'm wrong about Reform.

Yeah. Sure.

Changing the relationship between government and it's people? Frank, for Christ's sake, the government making people buy insurance is nothing new. Hell, my state government requires me to have car insurance in order to even drive a damned car. Again, just how is this fundamentally changing the government?

See? There is is again, who are you going to believe a Progressive or your lying eyes?

This is not a state making sure you have car insurance which is perfectly appropriate and at your option; if you can't afford it or don't feel like you should be driving anymore, you don't have to get car insurance.

Do you understand that Health Care "Reform" is from the Federal Government and no one can opt out?

That's a key here and I'm not sure you understand that.

This is the formerly limited Federal Government directing and dictating all human activity for ALL its citizens in all 50 states

What do they call it when you can't opt out of your job? Enslavement.

I wonder, when the 45% of doctors in previous surveys stated they would quit the practice if P-BO care went into effect... will the government force them to continue care till the 'doctor shortage' is remedied?

Hmmmmmm....

I wonder how many will have to flee the country less they be pressed into service.

 

[Immanuel]

>cough< China's one child policy >cough<

But... but... but... it will never happen here.

Sure it won't. Forty years ago, no one would have believed a President would attempt to completely take over the Health Insurance Industry either. Forty years ago, no one would have believed we would have to bail out the financial institutions either... which we really did not need to do, but we did it any way.

Let Risk-Taking Financial Institutions Fail - TIME

Banking Expert: Bailout Not Necessary, Industry Can Take Losses naked capitalism

 Does the bailout pass the smell test? : Information Clearing House - ICH

Immie

 

[JBeukema]

I wonder how many will have to flee the country less they be pressed into service.

Illiterate buffoon.

 

[Greenbeard]

Sure it won't. Forty years ago, no one would have believed a President would attempt to completely take over the Health Insurance Industry either.

1) No one has "taken over" the insurance industry.

2) Harry Truman and his allies in Congress (Wagner, Murray, and Dingell) proposed a significantly more aggressive and centralized health insurance plan sixty-five years ago.

 

[Big Fitz]

2) Harry Truman and his allies in Congress (Wagner, Murray, and Dingell) proposed a significantly more aggressive and centralized health insurance plan sixty-five years ago.

And it was still unconstitutional then. Just because a bad idea came up years ago does not giveit credibility now.

 

[The T]

Sure it won't. Forty years ago, no one would have believed a President would attempt to completely take over the Health Insurance Industry either.

1) No one has "taken over" the insurance industry.

2) Harry Truman and his allies in Congress (Wagner, Murray, and Dingell) proposed a significantly more aggressive and centralized health insurance plan sixty-five years ago.

And this is the next best thing. It is designed to get companies to drop what they have, and people will be forced to go with what the Government has.

Government will ultimately control it. You are being disingenuous.

And tell us something? Obama seems to not want to make up his mind. First he says he doesn't want 'Single Payer'...then he does. Which FACE is the true face of Obama?

And tell us why Pelosi says that we have to have the LAW before we know what's in it?

 

[Immanuel]

Sure it won't. Forty years ago, no one would have believed a President would attempt to completely take over the Health Insurance Industry either.

1) No one has "taken over" the insurance industry.

2) Harry Truman and his allies in Congress (Wagner, Murray, and Dingell) proposed a significantly more aggressive and centralized health insurance plan sixty-five years ago.

I think you must have misread what I wrote.

Let me see if you can see what I said when I quote it again, because I think you just skimmed over what I said.

a President would attempt to completely take over

Now, you are right, he has not taken over the industry, yet. He is in the process of attempting to do so. See the difference?

Immie

 

[Greenbeard]

And it was still unconstitutional then. Just because a bad idea came up years ago does not giveit credibility now.

I was refuting the point that "Forty years ago, no one would have believed" in a universal health care proposal, when in fact such proposals go back almost 70 years (in legislative form; the number is higher if you refer only to campaign proposals). That's why I quoted the post I was responding to: to give you context.

And this is the next best thing. It is designed to get companies to drop what they have, and people will be forced to go with what the Government has.

The sentiment from some seems to oscillate between reform being a giveaway to insurance companies and reform being a plot to destroy insurance companies. The truth, of course, lies somewhere in between. A large amount of federal money is going to be pumped into private insurance pools to shore them up, and a large number of new customers will be entering those pools (in fact, the customers are the ones bringing the federal money, so they get to choose which private pool that money will be directed to). However, insurers get new strings attached to them regarding how they treat their customers.

And tell us something? Obama seems to not want to make up his mind. First he says he doesn't want 'Single Payer'...then he does. Which FACE is the true face of Obama?

At this stage in his career, I doubt he cares much anymore.

And tell us why Pelosi says that we have to have the LAW before we know what's in it?

She said it has to be implemented before you'll know what's in it. And that's because you didn't bother to read it or find reliable sources about what's in it. Which leads to a great deal of confusion (see the guy above who thinks you can be arrested for ignoring the mandate or that the law gives the government access to your bank account) which won't be cleared up until the law is implemented. It's regrettable that misinformation and laziness rule the day but that does seem to be the situation.

 

[Immanuel]

And it was still unconstitutional then. Just because a bad idea came up years ago does not giveit credibility now.

I was refuting the point that "Forty years ago, no one would have believed" in a universal health care proposal, when in fact such proposals go back almost 70 years (in legislative form; the number is higher if you refer only to campaign proposals). That's why I quoted the post I was responding to: to give you context.

{snip for brevity}

Now, I see what you meant. I still don't think that most people would have believed 40 years ago we would have a President who is attempting to take over the health insurance industry.

Immie

 

[HUGGY]

And it was still unconstitutional then. Just because a bad idea came up years ago does not giveit credibility now.

I was refuting the point that "Forty years ago, no one would have believed" in a universal health care proposal, when in fact such proposals go back almost 70 years (in legislative form; the number is higher if you refer only to campaign proposals). That's why I quoted the post I was responding to: to give you context.

{snip for brevity}

Now, I see what you meant. I still don't think that most people would have believed 40 years ago we would have a President who is attempting to take over the health insurance industry.

Immie

Minolli...Why is it that many do not understand you?

Point #2 You are an idiot and belong on my 'The List".

Point #3 I don't suppose the 300% increase in the cost of premiums over the last ten years and the cancellation of 100's of thousands and the "previous conditions" scam had anything to do with it? Nosiry it was just Obama picking on the poor HMO's.

 

[Immanuel]

I was refuting the point that "Forty years ago, no one would have believed" in a universal health care proposal, when in fact such proposals go back almost 70 years (in legislative form; the number is higher if you refer only to campaign proposals). That's why I quoted the post I was responding to: to give you context.

{snip for brevity}

Now, I see what you meant. I still don't think that most people would have believed 40 years ago we would have a President who is attempting to take over the health insurance industry.

Immie

Minolli...Why is it that many do not understand you?

Point #2 You are an idiot and belong on my 'The List".

Point #3 I don't suppose the 300% increase in the cost of premiums over the last ten years and the cancellation of 100's of thousands and the "previous conditions" scam had anything to do with it? Nosiry it was just Obama picking on the poor HMO's.

I've never said Health Care did not need to be reformed. In fact, I said it needed to be reformed way back in the middle of Bush's first term.

My problem is with the government controlling all of it. More bureaucracy and incompetent bureaucracy at that is not what we need.

Immie

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Do you understand that Health Care "Reform" is from the Federal Government and no one can opt out?

You mean besides entire states, of course.

So that makes it OK to pass not just Unconstitutional but Anti-constitutional laws?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Sure it won't. Forty years ago, no one would have believed a President would attempt to completely take over the Health Insurance Industry either.

1) No one has "taken over" the insurance industry.

2) Harry Truman and his allies in Congress (Wagner, Murray, and Dingell) proposed a significantly more aggressive and centralized health insurance plan sixty-five years ago.

1. Right it's not take over because it's "reform", gotcha.

2. Fuck Harry Truman and his allies in Congress

 

[Greenbeard]

Do you understand that Health Care "Reform" is from the Federal Government and no one can opt out?

You mean besides entire states, of course.

So that makes it OK to pass not just Unconstitutional but Anti-constitutional laws?

I just enjoy pointing out that you seem to have very little idea of what you're talking about. You'd think with the amount of effort you put into bitching about this law, you'd have taken the time sometime in the last 8 months to actually read it, instead of getting your information from chain emails (or wherever you pulled that shit from).

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You mean besides entire states, of course.

So that makes it OK to pass not just Unconstitutional but Anti-constitutional laws?

I just enjoy pointing out that you seem to have very little idea of what you're talking about. You'd think with the amount of effort you put into bitching about this law, you'd have taken the time sometime in the last 8 months to actually read it, instead of getting your information from chain emails (or wherever you pulled that shit from).

I pulled it from the bill itself.

You know, the one no Democrat bothered to read and told us we'd have to pass it to see what was in it

 

[The T]

And it was still unconstitutional then. Just because a bad idea came up years ago does not giveit credibility now.

I was refuting the point that "Forty years ago, no one would have believed" in a universal health care proposal, when in fact such proposals go back almost 70 years (in legislative form; the number is higher if you refer only to campaign proposals). That's why I quoted the post I was responding to: to give you context.

And this is the next best thing. It is designed to get companies to drop what they have, and people will be forced to go with what the Government has.

The sentiment from some seems to oscillate between reform being a giveaway to insurance companies and reform being a plot to destroy insurance companies. The truth, of course, lies somewhere in between. A large amount of federal money is going to be pumped into private insurance pools to shore them up, and a large number of new customers will be entering those pools (in fact, the customers are the ones bringing the federal money, so they get to choose which private pool that money will be directed to). However, insurers get new strings attached to them regarding how they treat their customers.

But what business is it of Governments? Answer? None. You seem to confuse rights with responsibilities.

And tell us something? Obama seems to not want to make up his mind. First he says he doesn't want 'Single Payer'...then he does. Which FACE is the true face of Obama?

At this stage in his career, I doubt he cares much anymore.

Sure he does. He's doing as much as he can to destroy the free market.

And tell us why Pelosi says that we have to have the LAW before we know what's in it?

She said it has to be implemented before you'll know what's in it. And that's because you didn't bother to read it or find reliable sources about what's in it. Which leads to a great deal of confusion (see the guy above who thinks you can be arrested for ignoring the mandate or that the law gives the government access to your bank account) which won't be cleared up until the law is implemented. It's regrettable that misinformation and laziness rule the day but that does seem to be the situation.

Wrong answer. The effects of this are already in play. Companies are dropping or changing policies. Doctors are leaving the field....or NOT taking Medicare/Medicaid patients. And by the way? You can pay a fine or go to jail IF you don't have a plan. Tell us why there was a rather large uptick in IRS employment?

 

[Greenbeard]

I pulled it from the bill itself.

Again, no you didn't. That shit may work with the bootlickers who want to believe your bullshit and don't care much for facts but you can't lie to me. I read each incarnation of each health care bill that came out last year so when you try to pull text from H.R. 3200 and pretend it's from the Affordable Care Act, I know. And since I can also understand what I'm reading, when you completely distort what a sentence says, again, I know.

But I'm giving you too much credit. I've seen the list of fantasy provisions about H.R. 3200 you drew that from. I saw it when it came out in June of 2009. The creators of that list are the ones who fabricated and distorted, you just unwittingly passed their bullshit on.

 

[The T]

So that makes it OK to pass not just Unconstitutional but Anti-constitutional laws?

I just enjoy pointing out that you seem to have very little idea of what you're talking about. You'd think with the amount of effort you put into bitching about this law, you'd have taken the time sometime in the last 8 months to actually read it, instead of getting your information from chain emails (or wherever you pulled that shit from).

I pulled it from the bill itself.

You know, the one no Democrat bothered to read and told us we'd have to pass it to see what was in it

Exactly. And that was my point. And I wonder if Greenie can tell us why 19 States have taken this to court under the Constitution, specifically the Commerce Clause...?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You mean besides entire states, of course.

So that makes it OK to pass not just Unconstitutional but Anti-constitutional laws?

I just enjoy pointing out that you seem to have very little idea of what you're talking about. You'd think with the amount of effort you put into bitching about this law, you'd have taken the time sometime in the last 8 months to actually read it, instead of getting your information from chain emails (or wherever you pulled that shit from).

http://www.usmessageboard.com/consp...chen-sure-willing-to-bet-your-life-on-it.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/immig...87719-obamanomics-of-obamacare-part-deux.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/91639-dems-finally-admit-were-lying-about-healthcare.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/gener...his-guy-to-decide-whether-you-die-or-not.html

Moral of the Story for Green: If you want to be a loudmouth Noob, pick an easier target than CF.

 

[Greenbeard]

Wow, you posted four content-less threads about the health care debate? Clearly you did read the bills! That just leaves us with the mystery of why you don't know jack shit about the reform law.