Why Progressives always call it "Reform"

[Woyzeck]

I admire the skill with which Progressives have undermined and fundamentally altered American society and civilization. They are patient, they are cunning and they are absolutely ruthless.

One of the marvelous ways they've Body Snatched our civilization is by couching their fundamental changes as "reforms"

Health Care Reform now means real live genuine Eugenicists and a President who has stated he is "God's partner in matter of live and death" now have control of the health care system.

The idea of selling a fundamental rewrite as "Reform" is not new. One reason the Progressive have been so successful is that they have sabotaged the educational system.

Machiavelli's "The Prince" and "Discourses" was required reading at one point and most, if not all of our Founders knew the work.

I went through NYC public education and then Queens College then Manhattan College. But for a 7th Grade class that studied Dante and read "The Inferno" (the last line of Chapter XXI where Dante and Virgil receive a signal they can pass when the Guardian "Makes a trumpet of his ass" had us in hysterics for weeks and gave us a love of the classics) I never picked up The Prince.

I did now and I HIGHLY recommend you do the same!

CHAPTER XXV

That he who would reform the Institutions of a free State, must retain at least the semblance of old Ways.

WHOEVER TAKES UPON HIM to reform the government of a city, must, if his measures are to be well received and carried out with general approval, preserve at least the semblance of existing methods, so as not to appear to the people to have made any change in the old order of things; although, in truth, the new ordinances differ altogether from those which they replace. For when this is attended to, the mass of mankind accept what seems as what is; nay, are often touched more nearly by appearances than by realities.

http://www2.hn.psu.edu/faculty/jmanis/machiavelli/Machiavelli-Discourses-Titus-Livius.pdf

Sounds familiar?

I applaud you for picking up The Discourses, I enjoyed it and got more from it than I did the Prince, and other political works like Plato's Republic.

But I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to get across here. Machiavelli states not to change everything, and to leave some unchanged because people will accept whatever changes you wish to make better. It's a philosophy and practice we've had, you could very well argue, since the country was founded.

So the whole eugenicist thing and the quote from Obama... yeah what's that got to do with any of this?

 

[midcan5]

Shall we compare and contrast liberal progressivism with conservatism, lets.

Liberal Progressivism (LP) first:

Leaves the cave to create better lodging outside in the sun
Creation of tools
Hunting and fishing
Farming and husbandry
Creation of markets and merchants
Renaissance
Enlightenment
Political liberalism
Constitutional democracy
Public education for all
Abolished Slavery
Suffrage
Child labor laws
Unions fair pay and safe working conditions
Food and product safety regulations
Regulation to control financial meltdowns
Social Security
Won the war against fascism
Creation of United Nations
Civil rights voting rights
End of segregation
Poverty safety net
Woman's right to decide
Environmental controls
Equal rights for marriage to all
Universal health care

And we just keep going....

Now Conservatism:

Cave living and howling at the moon
Refusal to follow liberal out of the cave
Whine
More whining
More and more whining
More and more and more whining
More and more and more and more whining
More and more and more and more and more whining
More and more and more and more and more and more whining
Create think tanks for improved whining.
More and more and more and more and more and more and more whining
Create media centers for national whining and well you know what they do best.
More and more and more and more and more and more and more and more whining
More and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more whining.


During the Dark Ages and the Bubonic Plague, Conservative whining decreased, not enough to measure the change, but these times were consistent with their 'do nothing but whine philosophy,' and thus were the best times for conservatism. Notice today the 'no' to every change and you see nothing for them has changed.



More proof if you need any is listed in first link:

A Short History of Conservative Obstruction to Progress | Conceptual Guerilla

What Is Conservatism and What Is Wrong with It?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I admire the skill with which Progressives have undermined and fundamentally altered American society and civilization. They are patient, they are cunning and they are absolutely ruthless.

One of the marvelous ways they've Body Snatched our civilization is by couching their fundamental changes as "reforms"

Health Care Reform now means real live genuine Eugenicists and a President who has stated he is "God's partner in matter of live and death" now have control of the health care system.

The idea of selling a fundamental rewrite as "Reform" is not new. One reason the Progressive have been so successful is that they have sabotaged the educational system.

Machiavelli's "The Prince" and "Discourses" was required reading at one point and most, if not all of our Founders knew the work.

I went through NYC public education and then Queens College then Manhattan College. But for a 7th Grade class that studied Dante and read "The Inferno" (the last line of Chapter XXI where Dante and Virgil receive a signal they can pass when the Guardian "Makes a trumpet of his ass" had us in hysterics for weeks and gave us a love of the classics) I never picked up The Prince.

I did now and I HIGHLY recommend you do the same!

CHAPTER XXV

That he who would reform the Institutions of a free State, must retain at least the semblance of old Ways.

WHOEVER TAKES UPON HIM to reform the government of a city, must, if his measures are to be well received and carried out with general approval, preserve at least the semblance of existing methods, so as not to appear to the people to have made any change in the old order of things; although, in truth, the new ordinances differ altogether from those which they replace. For when this is attended to, the mass of mankind accept what seems as what is; nay, are often touched more nearly by appearances than by realities.

http://www2.hn.psu.edu/faculty/jmanis/machiavelli/Machiavelli-Discourses-Titus-Livius.pdf

Sounds familiar?

I applaud you for picking up The Discourses, I enjoyed it and got more from it than I did the Prince, and other political works like Plato's Republic.

But I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to get across here. Machiavelli states not to change everything, and to leave some unchanged because people will accept whatever changes you wish to make better. It's a philosophy and practice we've had, you could very well argue, since the country was founded.

So the whole eugenicist thing and the quote from Obama... yeah what's that got to do with any of this?

You might want to pick up Discourses and take another peek at XXV I think the point got past you.

After reading your comment regarding Obama and Health Care "Reform" and "What's that got to do with any of this?" comment, I think it's probably best to leave the book as a doorstop or whatever you've done with it.

 

[Woyzeck]

I admire the skill with which Progressives have undermined and fundamentally altered American society and civilization. They are patient, they are cunning and they are absolutely ruthless.

One of the marvelous ways they've Body Snatched our civilization is by couching their fundamental changes as "reforms"

Health Care Reform now means real live genuine Eugenicists and a President who has stated he is "God's partner in matter of live and death" now have control of the health care system.

The idea of selling a fundamental rewrite as "Reform" is not new. One reason the Progressive have been so successful is that they have sabotaged the educational system.

Machiavelli's "The Prince" and "Discourses" was required reading at one point and most, if not all of our Founders knew the work.

I went through NYC public education and then Queens College then Manhattan College. But for a 7th Grade class that studied Dante and read "The Inferno" (the last line of Chapter XXI where Dante and Virgil receive a signal they can pass when the Guardian "Makes a trumpet of his ass" had us in hysterics for weeks and gave us a love of the classics) I never picked up The Prince.

I did now and I HIGHLY recommend you do the same!

CHAPTER XXV

That he who would reform the Institutions of a free State, must retain at least the semblance of old Ways.

WHOEVER TAKES UPON HIM to reform the government of a city, must, if his measures are to be well received and carried out with general approval, preserve at least the semblance of existing methods, so as not to appear to the people to have made any change in the old order of things; although, in truth, the new ordinances differ altogether from those which they replace. For when this is attended to, the mass of mankind accept what seems as what is; nay, are often touched more nearly by appearances than by realities.

http://www2.hn.psu.edu/faculty/jmanis/machiavelli/Machiavelli-Discourses-Titus-Livius.pdf

Sounds familiar?

I applaud you for picking up The Discourses, I enjoyed it and got more from it than I did the Prince, and other political works like Plato's Republic.

But I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to get across here. Machiavelli states not to change everything, and to leave some unchanged because people will accept whatever changes you wish to make better. It's a philosophy and practice we've had, you could very well argue, since the country was founded.

So the whole eugenicist thing and the quote from Obama... yeah what's that got to do with any of this?

You might want to pick up Discourses and take another peek at XXV I think the point got past you.

After reading your comment regarding Obama and Health Care "Reform" and "What's that got to do with any of this?" comment, I think it's probably best to leave the book as a doorstop or whatever you've done with it.

Ah, once again someone uses the "insult instead of back up assertions" gambit. If its not so blindingly obvious to someone questioning or asking you to elaborate, there's no need to comply, just assume they're not getting it, and take no action to rectify that.

 

[JScott]

I admire the skill with which Progressives have undermined and fundamentally altered American society and civilization. They are patient, they are cunning and they are absolutely ruthless.

One of the marvelous ways they've Body Snatched our civilization is by couching their fundamental changes as "reforms"

Health Care Reform now means real live genuine Eugenicists and a President who has stated he is "God's partner in matter of live and death" now have control of the health care system.

The idea of selling a fundamental rewrite as "Reform" is not new. One reason the Progressive have been so successful is that they have sabotaged the educational system.

Machiavelli's "The Prince" and "Discourses" was required reading at one point and most, if not all of our Founders knew the work.

I went through NYC public education and then Queens College then Manhattan College. But for a 7th Grade class that studied Dante and read "The Inferno" (the last line of Chapter XXI where Dante and Virgil receive a signal they can pass when the Guardian "Makes a trumpet of his ass" had us in hysterics for weeks and gave us a love of the classics) I never picked up The Prince.

I did now and I HIGHLY recommend you do the same!

CHAPTER XXV

That he who would reform the Institutions of a free State, must retain at least the semblance of old Ways.

WHOEVER TAKES UPON HIM to reform the government of a city, must, if his measures are to be well received and carried out with general approval, preserve at least the semblance of existing methods, so as not to appear to the people to have made any change in the old order of things; although, in truth, the new ordinances differ altogether from those which they replace. For when this is attended to, the mass of mankind accept what seems as what is; nay, are often touched more nearly by appearances than by realities.

http://www2.hn.psu.edu/faculty/jmanis/machiavelli/Machiavelli-Discourses-Titus-Livius.pdf

Sounds familiar?

A couple of things.

Reform is when you take something and change it from what it was. Nothing more, nothing less.

The president didnt say HE was Gods partner, he said WE were.

Did you bother to read the rest of Machiavelli XXV or did you just reflexively go for the Obama knee pads?

Yeah, Obama meant the royal we, right, how else to explain his statement in front of a group of rabbis. Obama and the rabbis are Gods Partners in matters of life and death, OK

Are you Liberal Intellectual Elite?

I stopped reading after those two inaccurate statements.

Well, I do seem to be a little more intellectual than you. Beyond that I dont know.

 

[JScott]

poor insane frank..

Nope. He's right.

Progressives always closet their goals with words like "reform" and "historic"

They ether wait for or cause a crisis then they pass the so called "reforms" needed to fix the problem.

Problem is in reality they ignore the problem and just end up taking away your freedoms instead.

Amnesty, Health Care, Cap & Trade, Stimulus, the list goes on. None ever solves the problems....because they don't want the problems actually solved. How else can they divide us if everyone is happy.

Folks like Obama aren't problem solvers.....they're just good at causing them.

Like this guy?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCF3Vpf6iCg]YouTube - Vaughn Ward Plagiarizes Obama's 2004 DNC Speech[/ame]

 

[Big Fitz]

Civil rights and liberties have disappeared. Opposition to the Nazi regime has become tantamount to suicide or worse. Free speech and free assembly are anachronisms. The reputations of the once-vaunted German centres of learning have vanished. Education has been reduced to a National Socialist catechism.

Truly, truly great praise...

Yes, fitz, clearly they love this guy

I finally had a chance to read the article today, I'm amazed at how critical they were of Hitler in it with how loving the intelligentsia were of Il Duce and Hitler during the 20's and 30's. But then I noticed some small things. The most important is that the voting was done in January of 1938... 4 months after one of the most stunning events in European history since WW1 occurred: the annexation of Austria and Czechoslovakia. No wonder they were pissed at and could not ignore the threat Hitler was becoming to everyone.

I then asked myself about OTHER "People of the Year" since it is being denied that Time Magazine is impartial and politically balanced on who they choose for the Person of the Year. So I looked around to see what I could find.

TIME's Person of the Year 1927 - 2009 - TIME

You can look at all the stories there about them and make up your own mind.

Enjoy your reciprocal negrep as well jackass. One error on my part does not negate all the other times I've been right. Functionally they are still the same damn thing.

 

[JBeukema]

Civil rights and liberties have disappeared. Opposition to the Nazi regime has become tantamount to suicide or worse. Free speech and free assembly are anachronisms. The reputations of the once-vaunted German centres of learning have vanished. Education has been reduced to a National Socialist catechism.

Truly, truly great praise...

Yes, fitz, clearly they love this guy

Hi, you have received -37 reputation points from Big Fitz.
Reputation was given for this post.

I guess the facts didn't suit Fit's purposes

 

[Big Fitz]

Civil rights and liberties have disappeared. Opposition to the Nazi regime has become tantamount to suicide or worse. Free speech and free assembly are anachronisms. The reputations of the once-vaunted German centres of learning have vanished. Education has been reduced to a National Socialist catechism.

Truly, truly great praise...

Yes, fitz, clearly they love this guy

Hi, you have received -37 reputation points from Big Fitz.
Reputation was given for this post.

I guess the facts didn't suit Fit's purposes

DOn't negrep if you can't handle it back in your face. I rescinded and you were right on ONE point. You are still wrong with the issue.

 

[JBeukema]

Child labor laws
Unions fair pay and safe working conditions
Food and product safety regulations
Regulation to control financial meltdowns
Social Security

Interventonism =/= lberalism

Won the war against fascism

Creation of United Nations

You really want to brag about the UN?

Poverty safety net

Illiberal. Socialist in nature and practice.

Environmental controls

Illiberal in nature and practice. Espouses 'greater good' to curtail liberty.

Universal health care

Socialist in principle and practice

And we just keep going....

go right on ahead..

Cave living and howling at the moon

Refusal to follow PL out of the cave
Whine
More whining
More and more whining
More and more and more whining
More and more and more and more whining
More and more and more and more and more whining
More and more and more and more and more and more whining

Create think tanks for improved whining.

Are you retarded?

More and more and more and more and more and more and more whining

Grow up and stop acting like a child, already.

Create media centers for national whining and well you know what they do best.

Right.... because only conservatives engage in dissemination of information and propaganda

Ever heard of agitprop?

More and more and more and more and more and more and more and more whining
More and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more whining.

Jesus fucking Christ- grow up, moron and stop acting like a mentally disabled child.


That wasn't 'proof' of anything, you dolt- it was an exercise in gross stupidity and childishness.

 

[JBeukema]

Civil rights and liberties have disappeared. Opposition to the Nazi regime has become tantamount to suicide or worse. Free speech and free assembly are anachronisms. The reputations of the once-vaunted German centres of learning have vanished. Education has been reduced to a National Socialist catechism.

Truly, truly great praise...

Yes, fitz, clearly they love this guy

I finally had a chance to read the article today, I'm amazed at how critical they were of Hitler in it with how loving the intelligentsia were of Il Duce and Hitler during the 20's and 30's. But then I noticed some small things. The most important is that the voting was done in January of 1938... 4 months after one of the most stunning events in European history since WW1 occurred: the annexation of Austria and Czechoslovakia. No wonder they were pissed at and could not ignore the threat Hitler was becoming to everyone.

I then asked myself about OTHER "People of the Year" since it is being denied that Time Magazine is impartial and politically balanced on who they choose for the Person of the Year. So I looked around to see what I could find.

TIME's Person of the Year 1927 - 2009 - TIME

You can look at all the stories there about them and make up your own mind.

Enjoy your reciprocal negrep as well jackass. One error on my part does not negate all the other times I've been right. Functionally they are still the same damn thing.

I think you're trying to make a point, but I've no idea what it might be

TIME Person of the Year 2004: George W. Bush
TIME Person of the Year: Story Archive Since 1927, George W. Bush
TIME Person of the Year: The American Soldier
TIME Person of the Year: Story Archive Since 1927, Pope John Paul II
TIME Person of the Year: Story Archive Since 1927, The Two George Bushes
TIME Person of the Year: Story Archive Since 1927, Ronald Reagan
TIME Person of the Year: Story Archive Since 1927, American Fighting-Man
TIME Person of the Year: Story Archive Since 1927, Dwight D. Eisenhower
TIME Person of the Year: Story Archive Since 1927, The Middle Americans
TIME Person of the Year: Story Archive Since 1927, Newt Gingrich
TIME Person of the Year: Story Archive Since 1927, Rudy Giuliani

 

[CrusaderFrank]

"WHOEVER TAKES UPON HIM to reform the government of a city, must, if his measures are to be well received and carried out with general approval, preserve at least the semblance of existing methods, so as not to appear to the people to have made any change in the old order of things; although, in truth, the new ordinances differ altogether from those which they replace."

Much like Obama's view of America, I have been arrogant, dismissive, even derisive in explaining why Discourse XXV is appropriate in revealing the methodology of "Progressives" as they continue so drain the USA of its freedoms and liberty and replace it with modern American Fascism.

In the above sentence Machiavelli talks about implementing changes that new "differ altogether from those which they replace". This isn't tinkering around the edges, this is a fundamental change but because it's called "Reform and sold as such, it make it more palatable to the conquered.

Such is Health Care Reform, Banking Reform, US Automotive Reform, Energy Reform.

Progressives claim they are not fundamentally rewriting the Constitution and changing the basic relationship between the State and the Conquered through Health Care Reform. How could it be, see the word "reform"?

That means even though you can now be sent to jail for not buying insurance and the government has access to all your bank accounts, very little has changed because it's called "Reform"

 

[daveman]

I agree, they're not rewriting the Constitution...they're ignoring it.

 

[topspin]

whambulance Monday!!!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

whambulance Monday!!!

Happy Hour starts early in your neighborhood

 

[topspin]

I do love the comedic crying of the loser republican. And to think that during Obama's next term you'll have to get a slew of new false outrages to cry about. thanks

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I do love the comedic crying of the loser republican. And to think that during Obama's next term you'll have to get a slew of new false outrages to cry about. thanks

I love it when I post articles and thoughtful insights and you print it out and use it as a coaster for your 8am drink

 

[daveman]

I do love the comedic crying of the loser republican. And to think that during Obama's next term you'll have to get a slew of new false outrages to cry about. thanks

And I'm sure when the GOP gains in the House, and Obama loses his re-election bid, you'll be all gracious and kind and accepting.


Actually, no, I'm not. You'll whine just like leftists whined all during the Bush Admin.

Say, got your "Stolen Election!!!111" memes all picked out yet?

 

[Greenbeard]

That means even though you can now be sent to jail for not buying insurance and the government has access to all your bank accounts, very little has changed because it's called "Reform"

Stop embarrassing yourself. If you haven't read the legislation (and it's painfully obvious that you haven't), your philosophical musings about the provisions you've fabricated aren't worth much.

 

[topspin]

Parties in power almost always lose mid-terms. If you come here and post that's a guarantee that Obama loses I will laugh at you again.