Why Libs Should Support Israel, Not Hamas

Mojo2

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Oct 28, 2013
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Why My Fellow Liberals Should Support Israel in Her Conflict with Hamas

As an American liberal who loves Israel because I'm a liberal, I've been disturbed by the recent diminishing trend of American progressive support for the Jewish state in its decades-long conflict with its increasingly hostile neighbors.

A recent CNN/ORC poll concerning the Gaza conflict intensified my anxiety: While a plurality of self-identified liberals and Democrats support Israel's right of self-defense in taking military action against Hamas, Democrats were three times more likely than Republicans to believe that the Jewish State is "not justified" in its targeted bombing campaign.

The roots of liberal sympathy for the radical, fundamentalist, brutal Hamas regime are as complex as they are troubling. We liberals love the underdog, and a media that rewards conflict over context has helped promote the perverse notion that the tiny nation with the Star of David on its flag is really the Goliath in the popular Biblical metaphor. This problem was exacerbated in Campaign 2012 when my fellow progressives watched a coterie of unlikeable, right-wing GOP presidential hopefuls proclaim their uber-passionate support for the Jewish State and try to use it as a political wedge against our beloved progressive President.

But amidst the shouting and finger-pointing, the fundamental reason behind the decline of American progressive support for Israel relates to a profound misunderstanding of the facts on the ground. When confronted with an accurate accounting of the differences between the two sides in the conflict, a true liberal must be compelled to embrace the Zionist cause.

Here are but a few examples:

Israel Values Human Life; Hamas Does Not

There's no moral value more important to American liberals than the preciousness of human life, particularly the lives of those in our society who are most vulnerable: As Hubert Humphrey elegantly framed the liberal credo, "The moral test of government is how it treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the aged; and those who are in the shadows of life -- the sick, the needy and the handicapped."

Israel's current intervention in Gaza is a living example of this principle. Understanding that any military action would provoke its international enemies, Israel simply could no longer tolerate the danger posed to its citizens -- Jews and Arabs -- by the many months of unprovoked bombing of civilian targets in Southern Israel by Hamas militants. Accordingly, Israel has engaged in a painstakingly-measured, precisely-targeted bombing campaign, using the most modern technology to carefully dismantle military targets and avoid civilian casualties. On Monday, for example, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) used pinpoint accuracy to destroy the second floor of a Gaza City office building, killing only the Islamic Jihad military leaders who had been responsible for training terrorists, planning attacks on Israeli civilians and manufacturing weapons.

Outgoing rockets from #Gaza City moments ago twitter.com/andersoncooper...

— Anderson Cooper (@andersoncooper) November 19, 2012

Of course, there has been -- and will continue to be -- significant collateral damage; innocent Palestinians -- very, very regretfully -- have been killed in the bombing campaign. But their blood lies entirely in the hands of their Hamas leaders. As the picture above taken by CNN's Anderson Cooper dramatically illustrates, Hamas has embedded its offensive military weaponry within highly populated civilian areas, with the complete knowledge -- and indeed, desired intent -- of provoking the IDF to unintentionally kill innocent Palestinians.

Hamas' use of human shields -- its deliberate placement of innocent civilians near combat targets to either deter Israel from attacking those targets or to provoke international sympathy for mounting civilian death tolls -- is an indisputable war crime, a clear violation of the Geneva Convention.

Furthermore, Hamas leaders have actually been daring Israel to launch a ground campaign that would necessarily lead to a significant increase in loss of life on both sides, especially among Palestinian civilians. Hamas' leader, Khaled Meshal, suggested Monday that the Israeli mobilization on the Gaza border was a bluff, and insisted that Hamas would not cease its bombing campaign unless Israel ended its military blockade -- a condition it knows the Israeli government will never accept because that would mean more offensive weapons could be brought into Gaza, dramatically exacerbating the military threat against Israeli civilians.

Israel Seeks Peace; Hamas Does Not

When it comes to American foreign policy, or relations among world nations, there's no liberal value more important than the search for peace.

Since declaring its independence more than six decades ago, Israel has desperately sought peace with its neighbors. Time after time, Israel has reached its hand out to peace, only to be met with shaken fists: From Arab declaration of war in 1948 upon their refusal to accept the United Nations' partition; to the Egyptian military provocations in 1967 that led to the Six Day War; to the Arab League's refusal after that war to accept the U.N.'s resolution of land for peace; to the 1973 three-front invasion of the Jewish State on its holiest day of Yom Kippur, to the present hostilities. Indeed, Israel has no incentive whatsoever to provoke war with its neighbors -- its citizens would like nothing better to live peacefully.

Some have argued this week -- including some well-meaning supporters of the Jewish State -- that if only Israel would sign a peace agreement to establish a Palestinian state in the West Bank, such bombing campaigns would no longer be necessary. Like most American liberals -- indeed like a majority of Israeli citizens -- I too support a two-state solution that transform most of the West Bank into a Palestinian State. But among the wide variety of strong rationales for such an agreement to be reached through bi-lateral negotiation, stopping Hamas from bombing Israeli civilians is not one of them. As vividly outlined in its charter, Hamas is only interested in a one-state solution, with no Jewish State.

Indeed, the recent Hamas military campaigns have made many Israelis recalibrate the value of turning the West Bank over to a people that democratically elected Hamas in the Gaza Strip. And certainly, it has made many rethink the decision of Israel's Sharon Administration to unilaterally withdraw from Gaza in 2004-2005.

But most significantly, such calls ignore the most important factor for the failure of peace in the region -- Israel's inability to identify a willing partner for peace on the other side. Whether it was Yasir Arafat's 2000 rejection of the Bill Clinton negotiated peace settlement in 2000 that would have turned over 97% of the West Bank and control of East Jerusalem to Palestinian hands, or current Palestinian President Mohammad Abbas' 2008 refusal of then-Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Ohlmert's even more generous peace offer, Palestinian leaders have proven time and again that they are the remaining obstacle to peace. And remember: Arafat and Abbas represent the "moderate" wing of the Palestinian movement; Hamas fundamentally rejects Israel's very existence.

Continued at the link.

Jonathan_Miller: Why My Fellow Liberals Should Support Israel in Her Conflict with Hamas
 
We DO support Israel, not Hamas. Nobody in America "supports Hamas".

Abbas, the leader of Palestine is not Hamas. He has earned significant respect for his security operations as noted by the fact that Israel has turned over significant security responsibilities to them.

Abbas has built the infrastructure needed to operate as a responsible nation as noted by the UN Security Council.

Hamas has said they support Abbas in negotiations with Israel and will abide by what he achieves with the only caveat being national referendum - which has been the understood direction regardless.

And, this notion that America is at risk of becoming Muslim can not possibly be born out by actual data. Christianity is the significant majority religion throughout every state of the union.
 
[...]Like most American liberals -- indeed like a majority of Israeli citizens -- I too support a two-state solution that transform most of the West Bank into a Palestinian State. But among the wide variety of strong rationales for such an agreement to be reached through bi-lateral negotiation, stopping Hamas from bombing Israeli civilians is not one of them. As vividly outlined in its charter, Hamas is only interested in a one-state solution, with no Jewish State.

Well, first of all the notion of a two state solution is waning. As Israel's ethnic cleansing operations continue to envelope West Bank the remaining land hardly looks like a state anymore. In fact, West Bank is essentially divided in two now, with Israel having eliminated Palestinians from major portions of the middle.

With Israel declaring that it will continue stealing more land even during negotiations (a move which continues the illegal land grabs and which is opposed by the US and most other UN nations), the reunification of West Bank to form a functional contiguous region seems more and more remote.

We may have reached a point where a one state solution is required, with Israel owning West Bank and Gaza and all residents becoming citizens of Israel.

While it used to be that the only proponents were Israeli Arabs (who would have a better chance opposing Israeli apartheid if there were more Arabs in Israel) it is now appealing to more people.
 
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What if you support the Palestinians and not any of those factions mentioned?
 
Why My Fellow Liberals Should Support Israel in Her Conflict with Hamas

As an American liberal who loves Israel because I'm a liberal, I've been disturbed by the recent diminishing trend of American progressive support for the Jewish state in its decades-long conflict with its increasingly hostile neighbors.

A recent CNN/ORC poll concerning the Gaza conflict intensified my anxiety: While a plurality of self-identified liberals and Democrats support Israel's right of self-defense in taking military action against Hamas, Democrats were three times more likely than Republicans to believe that the Jewish State is "not justified" in its targeted bombing campaign.

The roots of liberal sympathy for the radical, fundamentalist, brutal Hamas regime are as complex as they are troubling. We liberals love the underdog, and a media that rewards conflict over context has helped promote the perverse notion that the tiny nation with the Star of David on its flag is really the Goliath in the popular Biblical metaphor. This problem was exacerbated in Campaign 2012 when my fellow progressives watched a coterie of unlikeable, right-wing GOP presidential hopefuls proclaim their uber-passionate support for the Jewish State and try to use it as a political wedge against our beloved progressive President.

But amidst the shouting and finger-pointing, the fundamental reason behind the decline of American progressive support for Israel relates to a profound misunderstanding of the facts on the ground. When confronted with an accurate accounting of the differences between the two sides in the conflict, a true liberal must be compelled to embrace the Zionist cause.

Here are but a few examples:

Israel Values Human Life; Hamas Does Not

There's no moral value more important to American liberals than the preciousness of human life, particularly the lives of those in our society who are most vulnerable: As Hubert Humphrey elegantly framed the liberal credo, "The moral test of government is how it treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the aged; and those who are in the shadows of life -- the sick, the needy and the handicapped."

Israel's current intervention in Gaza is a living example of this principle. Understanding that any military action would provoke its international enemies, Israel simply could no longer tolerate the danger posed to its citizens -- Jews and Arabs -- by the many months of unprovoked bombing of civilian targets in Southern Israel by Hamas militants. Accordingly, Israel has engaged in a painstakingly-measured, precisely-targeted bombing campaign, using the most modern technology to carefully dismantle military targets and avoid civilian casualties. On Monday, for example, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) used pinpoint accuracy to destroy the second floor of a Gaza City office building, killing only the Islamic Jihad military leaders who had been responsible for training terrorists, planning attacks on Israeli civilians and manufacturing weapons.

Outgoing rockets from #Gaza City moments ago twitter.com/andersoncooper...

— Anderson Cooper (@andersoncooper) November 19, 2012

Of course, there has been -- and will continue to be -- significant collateral damage; innocent Palestinians -- very, very regretfully -- have been killed in the bombing campaign. But their blood lies entirely in the hands of their Hamas leaders. As the picture above taken by CNN's Anderson Cooper dramatically illustrates, Hamas has embedded its offensive military weaponry within highly populated civilian areas, with the complete knowledge -- and indeed, desired intent -- of provoking the IDF to unintentionally kill innocent Palestinians.

Hamas' use of human shields -- its deliberate placement of innocent civilians near combat targets to either deter Israel from attacking those targets or to provoke international sympathy for mounting civilian death tolls -- is an indisputable war crime, a clear violation of the Geneva Convention.

Furthermore, Hamas leaders have actually been daring Israel to launch a ground campaign that would necessarily lead to a significant increase in loss of life on both sides, especially among Palestinian civilians. Hamas' leader, Khaled Meshal, suggested Monday that the Israeli mobilization on the Gaza border was a bluff, and insisted that Hamas would not cease its bombing campaign unless Israel ended its military blockade -- a condition it knows the Israeli government will never accept because that would mean more offensive weapons could be brought into Gaza, dramatically exacerbating the military threat against Israeli civilians.

Israel Seeks Peace; Hamas Does Not

When it comes to American foreign policy, or relations among world nations, there's no liberal value more important than the search for peace.

Since declaring its independence more than six decades ago, Israel has desperately sought peace with its neighbors. Time after time, Israel has reached its hand out to peace, only to be met with shaken fists: From Arab declaration of war in 1948 upon their refusal to accept the United Nations' partition; to the Egyptian military provocations in 1967 that led to the Six Day War; to the Arab League's refusal after that war to accept the U.N.'s resolution of land for peace; to the 1973 three-front invasion of the Jewish State on its holiest day of Yom Kippur, to the present hostilities. Indeed, Israel has no incentive whatsoever to provoke war with its neighbors -- its citizens would like nothing better to live peacefully.

Some have argued this week -- including some well-meaning supporters of the Jewish State -- that if only Israel would sign a peace agreement to establish a Palestinian state in the West Bank, such bombing campaigns would no longer be necessary. Like most American liberals -- indeed like a majority of Israeli citizens -- I too support a two-state solution that transform most of the West Bank into a Palestinian State. But among the wide variety of strong rationales for such an agreement to be reached through bi-lateral negotiation, stopping Hamas from bombing Israeli civilians is not one of them. As vividly outlined in its charter, Hamas is only interested in a one-state solution, with no Jewish State.

Indeed, the recent Hamas military campaigns have made many Israelis recalibrate the value of turning the West Bank over to a people that democratically elected Hamas in the Gaza Strip. And certainly, it has made many rethink the decision of Israel's Sharon Administration to unilaterally withdraw from Gaza in 2004-2005.

But most significantly, such calls ignore the most important factor for the failure of peace in the region -- Israel's inability to identify a willing partner for peace on the other side. Whether it was Yasir Arafat's 2000 rejection of the Bill Clinton negotiated peace settlement in 2000 that would have turned over 97% of the West Bank and control of East Jerusalem to Palestinian hands, or current Palestinian President Mohammad Abbas' 2008 refusal of then-Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Ohlmert's even more generous peace offer, Palestinian leaders have proven time and again that they are the remaining obstacle to peace. And remember: Arafat and Abbas represent the "moderate" wing of the Palestinian movement; Hamas fundamentally rejects Israel's very existence.

Continued at the link.

Jonathan_Miller: Why My Fellow Liberals Should Support Israel in Her Conflict with Hamas
I had to hold my pant legs up so I wouldn't get them dirty while reading that horseshit garbage.
 
We DO support Israel, not Hamas. Nobody in America "supports Hamas".

Abbas, the leader of Palestine is not Hamas. He has earned significant respect for his security operations as noted by the fact that Israel has turned over significant security responsibilities to them.

Abbas has built the infrastructure needed to operate as a responsible nation as noted by the UN Security Council.

Hamas has said they support Abbas in negotiations with Israel and will abide by what he achieves with the only caveat being national referendum - which has been the understood direction regardless.

And, this notion that America is at risk of becoming Muslim can not possibly be born out by actual data. Christianity is the significant majority religion throughout every state of the union.


The Five Stages of Islam

Stage 1. Establish a Beachhead

Population density à 2% (US, Australia, Canada).

Muslims are conciliatory, deferential but request harmless special treatment (foot bath facilities, removal/elimination of that which is offensive to delicate Muslim sensibilities - like walking dogs near Mosques).

Stage 2. Establish Outposts

Population density 2% - 5% (UK, Germany, Denmark).

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. A recent example is that of Sheikh Abdullah el-Faisal who is back in Jamaica after being kicked out of the UK. Sound harmless? Read on:

The dispatch, dated February 2010, warns that that Jamaica could be fertile ground for jihadists because of its underground drug economy, marginalized youth, insufficient security and gang networks in U.S. and British prisons.

Stage 3. Establish Sectional Control of Major Cities.

Population density 5% - 10% (France, Sweden, Netherlands).

First comes the demand for halal food in supermarkets, and the blocking of streets for prayers; then comes the demand for self rule (within their ghettos) under Sharia. When Muslims approach 10% of the population the demands turn to lawlessness. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any criticism of Islam results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam. In France which may be over the 10% range, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend madrassas. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death.

Stage 4. Establish Regional Control.

Population density 20% - 50% (Europe 2020?).

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues.

Stage 5. Total Control, Brutal Suppression, and Dhimmitude.

Population density > 50%.

Unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and jizya, the tax placed on infidels. As Muslim population levels increase and all infidels cower in submission there will peace at last. Dar al-Islam is achieved and everyone lives under Sharia and the Koran is the only word.

Our current Western world leaders are suckered by taqiyya and kitman and steering us into stage 3. Allen West seems to get it but I can't see that any of the crop of current GOP contenders really get it. Fear of bigotry at stage 2 is the Islamists' greatest weapon. Crucified on the cross of bigotry -- is that the future of the Western democracies? Bigotry is only bigotry if it is out of touch with reality and it is the suckers who believe the stage 1-2 peace pitch of Islam who are the ones who are out of touch with reality -- not to mention our mesmerized President. The first GOP candidate who announces to Imam Rauf and his supporters, "Fine. A Mosque at ground zero. But how about a cathedral in Mecca first? It is part of our Christian outreach program of bridge building." will be the first to get it and a big boost in the polls.
on "The Five Stages of Islam"

Archived-Articles: The Five Stages of Islam
 
What needs to be preserved is America.

Religious freedom is one of the pillars we believe in.

Your suggestion is that American ideals are weak. In fact, that they are so weak that they can't withstand a tiny minority of those who believe in the Christian God, but in a slightly different way.

To me, that just sounds profoundly absurd - to the point of being UnAmerican.
 
What needs to be preserved is America.

Religious freedom is one of the pillars we believe in.

Your suggestion is that American ideals are weak. In fact, that they are so weak that they can't withstand a tiny minority of those who believe in the Christian God, but in a slightly different way.

To me, that just sounds profoundly absurd - to the point of being UnAmerican.

You sound like someone more interested in appearances rather than keeping America free.

This isn't a pissing contest.
 
You sound like someone more interested in appearances rather than keeping America free.

This isn't a pissing contest.

No, I'm someone who sees America as strong, as having religious freedom as one of its strengths (not weaknesses) and who sees fear of minority groups as being an unfortunate and even dangerous step to take.
 
You sound like someone more interested in appearances rather than keeping America free.

This isn't a pissing contest.

No, I'm someone who sees America as strong, as having religious freedom as one of its strengths (not weaknesses) and who sees fear of minority groups as being an unfortunate and even dangerous step to take.

Muslims want to eradicate every right God gave us. If they win, our government, and we all lose.

Stop taking our Constitution for granted.

You sound like a little kid who jumps up and down on the bed and expects it will never break under the abuse simply because it has always stood up.

It wasn't designed to stand up to that kind of abuse and after a while it WILL break.

The Constitution never considered Islam infiltrating our shores and our consciousness.

And our forefathers likely never anticipated individuals as imprudent as you.

The stakes are too great to even risk testing your assumption, you swaggering loon.
 
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You sound like someone more interested in appearances rather than keeping America free.

This isn't a pissing contest.

No, I'm someone who sees America as strong, as having religious freedom as one of its strengths (not weaknesses) and who sees fear of minority groups as being an unfortunate and even dangerous step to take.

WillReadmore, PLEASE don't do it. We all know it is foolhardy. Everybody but you, that is.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WpWbnnTu1g]jeep rollover - YouTube[/ame]


Did your Geico Humpday Camel cover the repairs to your jeep?

No, it was probably declared a total loss.

The good thing?

You only jeopardized your own life and your own property.
 

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