Why Libs Should Support Israel, Not Hamas

[Lipush]

What if you support the Palestinians and not any of those factions mentioned?

There sometimes is a different between supporting Palestinians and supporting Hamas.

Do you support Hamas?

 

[Lipush]

We DO support Israel, not Hamas. Nobody in America "supports Hamas".

Abbas, the leader of Palestine is not Hamas. He has earned significant respect for his security operations as noted by the fact that Israel has turned over significant security responsibilities to them.

Abbas has built the infrastructure needed to operate as a responsible nation as noted by the UN Security Council.

Hamas has said they support Abbas in negotiations with Israel and will abide by what he achieves with the only caveat being national referendum - which has been the understood direction regardless.

And, this notion that America is at risk of becoming Muslim can not possibly be born out by actual data. Christianity is the significant majority religion throughout every state of the union.

Abbas is the leader of Palestine?

 

[Lipush]

Lets be honest Tinmore. When Gazans found out about 9/11 and that thousands of Americans were murdered, how do you think many of them reacted?
What do you think their feelings were ?

Including the ones who have made in the USA missiles in their living room?

You gonna answer the question ?

He'll say they were mourning and crying

 

[High_Gravity]

Link?

Lets be honest Tinmore. When Gazans found out about 9/11 and that thousands of Americans were murdered, how do you think many of them reacted?
What do you think their feelings were ?

Including the ones who have made in the USA missiles in their living room?

 

[WillReadmore]

Muslims want to eradicate every right God gave us. If they win, our government, and we all lose.

There are certainly some bad actors out there, but generalizing that to some goal of Islam is nonsense. Note that all the middle east accounts for less than 20% of Islam. And, the bad actors of that region are a small percentage of that.

Let's be careful. Mistakes of this magnitude do not help us.

 

[Mojo2]

What if you support the Palestinians and not any of those factions mentioned?

That's fine. I see no problem with that.

Personally, I much prefer it that way

I'd prefer they disavow their bigotry against Jews. In effect, going against the Hamas covenant, the tradition and culture of Palestinians AND of all Muslims, generally, and the Koran.

Although I may be mistaken.

So, someone please show me where that is.

 

[Mojo2]

Muslims want to eradicate every right God gave us. If they win, our government, and we all lose.

There are certainly some bad actors out there, but generalizing that to some goal of Islam is nonsense. Note that all the middle east accounts for less than 20% of Islam. And, the bad actors of that region are a small percentage of that.

Let's be careful. Mistakes of this magnitude do not help us.

Contrary to your old fashioned perception of how to wage a war against the strongest conventional power on Earth, you don't do it using your understanding.

From reading your posts I've deduced, in addition to being incorrect about strategy and tactics, your assumptions about the numbers of people required to effect the end result are uninformed assumptions.

And the thing you REALLY are missing, something your videogame scenarios might casually omit, is that even a disturbance as limited as the Rodney King riots* would be A VERY BAD THING.

Something we should all want to avoid or prevent, if possible.

Yet, you are being reckless with OUR people's lives and THEIR property.

You have as foreign an orientation as Obama!


* -

Fifty-three people died during the riots, including ten who were shot dead by police and military forces,[23] with as many as 2,000 people injured. Estimates of the material losses vary between about $800 million and $1 billion.[24] Approximately 3,600 fires were set, destroying 1,100 buildings, with fire calls coming once every minute at some points. Widespread looting also occurred. Stores owned by Korean and other Asian immigrants were widely targeted.[25]

 

[Mojo2]

August 1, 2002

Al Qaeda's Fantasy Ideology

by Lee Harris

War without Clausewitz


[...]

So perhaps it is time to retire the war metaphor and to deploy one that is more fitting: the struggle to eradicate disease. The fantasy ideologies of the twentieth century, after all, spread like a virus in susceptible populations: Their propagation was not that suggested by John Stuart Mill’s marketplace of ideas — fantasy ideologies were not debated and examined, weighed and measured, evaluated and compared. They grew and spread like a cancer in the body politic. For the people who accepted them did not accept them as tentative or provisional. They were unalterable and absolute. And finally, after driving out all other competing ideas and ideologies, they literally turned their host organism into the instrument of their own poisonous and deadly will.

The same thing is happening today — and that is our true enemy. The poison of the radical Islamic fantasy ideology is being spread all over the Muslim world through schools and through the media, through mosques and through the demagoguery of the Arab street. In fact, there is no better way to grasp the full horror of the poison than to listen as a Palestinian mother offers her four-year-old son up to be yet another victim of this ghastly fantasy.

Once we understand this, many of our current perplexities will find themselves resolved. Pseudo-issues such as debates over the legitimacy of “racial profiling” would disappear: Does anyone in his right mind object to screening someone entering his country for signs of plague? Or quarantining those who have contracted it? Or closely monitoring precisely those populations within his country that are most at risk?

Let there be no doubt about it. The fantasy ideologies of the twentieth century were plagues, killing millions and millions of innocent men, women, and children. The only difference was that the victims and targets of such fantasy ideologies so frequently refused to see them for what they were, interpreting them as something quite different — as normal politics, as reasonable aspirations, as merely variations on the well-known theme of realpolitik, behaving — tragically enough — no differently from Montezuma when he attempted to decipher the inexplicable enigma posed by the appearance of the Spanish conquistadors. Nor did the fact that his response was entirely human make his fate any less terrible.

Al Qaeda's Fantasy Ideology | Hoover Institution


If you read this you will understand how I came by the cancer metaphor.

How many cancer cells do you want injected into your body?

Then tell me how do you bargain or negotiate with cancer?

Try these questions: How many men would it take to bring down the WTC Twin Towers? And damage the Pentagon as it was damaged? And how many days would it take and how much would it cost? How many men would be needed?

The way you seem to perceive it it would take several weeks and hundreds of thousands of dollars and a crew of dozens before we saw on 9/11/01 how 19 guys could not only bring down the towers in an hour but to do Billions of dollars of damage and kill 2,977 of their enemy.

Look, Harris compares Jihadists as a cancer that you don't negotiate with, you just eliminate.

Our problem is we can't tell them apart and some are intentionally trying to mislead us into thinking they are 'moderate' and some experience a sudden awakening and just all of a sudden become devout and then a zealot and then a terrorist. So you just can't be sure. They all must be suspect.

But this is more serious than a mere guessing game.

This is life and death and our nation.

 

[docmauser1]

Well, first of all the notion of a two state solution is waning. As Israel's ethnic cleansing operations continue to envelope West Bank the remaining land hardly looks like a state anymore. In fact, West Bank is essentially divided in two now, with Israel having eliminated Palestinians from major portions of the middle. With Israel declaring that it will continue stealing more land even during negotiations (a move which continues the illegal land grabs and which is opposed by the US and most other UN nations), the reunification of West Bank to form a functional contiguous region seems more and more remote. We may have reached a point where a one state solution is required, with Israel owning West Bank and Gaza and all residents becoming citizens of Israel. While it used to be that the only proponents were Israeli Arabs (who would have a better chance opposing Israeli apartheid if there were more Arabs in Israel) it is now appealing to more people.

Drivel.

 

[Billo_Really]

I'd prefer they disavow their bigotry against Jews.

Are you going to disavow your bigotry against muslims?

 

[thanatos144]

Why would Liberals support Israel? They are racists that hate Jews. Hell even the Jewish liberals hate Jews.

 

[High_Gravity]

Israel is obviously the better choice, supporting Hamas is like rooting for the Utah Jazz against the Miami Heat, you will lose every time.

 

[Mojo2]

I'd prefer they disavow their bigotry against Jews.

Are you going to disavow your bigotry against muslims?

You really don't get it, do you?

The only thing I have against muslims is that unknown numbers of them are actively waging a violent AND non-violent war against all non-Muslims to enforce on every one of us their demands that we live according to their rules of behavior.

I'd rather be free.

If it weren't for that I would love Muslims.

Oh, wait a minute.

I forgot about that evil KKK-ish bigotry against Jews.

How can anyone be friendly toward Muslims knowing their culture breeds and promotes a deadly hatred of Jews?

If a White man hated Blacks and wanted them dead no one who calls himself a civilized person would tolerate such a person in their midsts.

But Muslims are given a special exemption so they can hate Jews without any problem I guess.

 

[Billo_Really]

You really don't get it, do you?

Oh, I get it! I get your hatred is no different than theirs.

The only thing I have against muslims is that unknown numbers of them are actively waging a violent AND non-violent war against all non-Muslims to enforce on every one of us their demands that we live according to their rules of behavior.

You can't take over the world that way.

What you need is a modern military with nuclear weapons and a 1000 bases all over the world, like we have. Then you stand a better chance of ruling the planet.

I'd rather be free.

You are free!

If it weren't for that I would love Muslims.

Stop being such a pussy!

You're doing the same thing you accuse them of doing.

Oh, wait a minute.

I forgot about that evil KKK-ish bigotry against Jews.

You didn't forget; you just have a different target to direct your hatred against.

But it's the same hate.

How can anyone be friendly toward Muslims knowing their culture breeds and promotes a deadly hatred of Jews?

Just look in the mirror; you're doing the same thing to them.

If a White man hated Blacks and wanted them dead no one who calls himself a civilized person would tolerate such a person in their midsts.

That's why I don't tolerate you.

But Muslims are given a special exemption so they can hate Jews without any problem I guess.

No exemptions are given out and that includes Israeli's.

I will say, of the ones who do truly hate Israeli's, at least they have a valid reason for that hatred, you just make up yours as you go along.

 

[Billo_Really]

Israel is obviously the better choice, supporting Hamas is like rooting for the Utah Jazz against the Miami Heat, you will lose every time.

I'd be more like supporting Mike Tyson beating the shit out of a infant newborn in his baby crib.

 

[Billo_Really]

Why would Liberals support Israel? They are racists that hate Jews. Hell even the Jewish liberals hate Jews.

I'm a liberal. Why would I hate jews?

I love how no matter what the criticism of Israel is, it's always the same argument in response. I mean, how retarded is that?

 

[Lipush]

You really don't get it, do you?

Oh, I get it! I get your hatred is no different than theirs.

The only thing I have against muslims is that unknown numbers of them are actively waging a violent AND non-violent war against all non-Muslims to enforce on every one of us their demands that we live according to their rules of behavior.

You can't take over the world that way.

What you need is a modern military with nuclear weapons and a 1000 bases all over the world, like we have. Then you stand a better chance of ruling the planet.


You are free!


Stop being such a pussy!

You're doing the same thing you accuse them of doing.


You didn't forget; you just have a different target to direct your hatred against.

But it's the same hate.


Just look in the mirror; you're doing the same thing to them.

If a White man hated Blacks and wanted them dead no one who calls himself a civilized person would tolerate such a person in their midsts.

That's why I don't tolerate you.

But Muslims are given a special exemption so they can hate Jews without any problem I guess.

No exemptions are given out and that includes Israeli's.

I will say, of the ones who do truly hate Israeli's, at least they have a valid reason for that hatred, you just make up yours as you go along.

There is no reason for hate against Israelis, like there is no reason for following the Anti-Israeli trash, unless you're a Jew-hater.

You do realize the same people you root for are the ones who'll have no problem slaughtering you for not following their religion?

 

[Lipush]

Why would Liberals support Israel? They are racists that hate Jews. Hell even the Jewish liberals hate Jews.

I'm a liberal. Why would I hate jews?

I love how no matter what the criticism of Israel is, it's always the same argument in response. I mean, how retarded is that?

You're rooting the the radical leftists.

There is no Jew-hating greater than that. Since they wish nothing but to see the Jews defeated.

Why? that is your place to answer.

 

[Billo_Really]

You're rooting the the radical leftists.

There is no Jew-hating greater than that. Since they wish nothing but to see the Jews defeated.

Why? that is your place to answer.

Why do you think I hate jews?

Why is it, no one can answer that question?

You accuse someone of hating jews, yet you cannot say why that is?

 

[Billo_Really]

There is no reason for hate against Israelis, like there is no reason for following the Anti-Israeli trash, unless you're a Jew-hater.

You do realize the same people you root for are the ones who'll have no problem slaughtering you for not following their religion?

No reason to hate Israeli's?

Do you think people should enjoy being demonized by people like you?