Why is Socialism so popular all of a sudden

[task0778]

IMHO, socialism is gaining in popularity these days because it offers too much free stuff to people who don't want to work for it. They don't want to take responsibility for themselves or make the effort to earn all the stuff they want. It's easier to vote for somebody who will give you as much as possible, even though they do not follow through.

 

[BILLSANDS]

Sweden had successfully moved into the high-income group of countries by 1955-56.

Yeah and then (as I pointed out) it flamed out in the 1970's and didn't begin to recover until the late 1990's. They had the benefit of not having their economic infrastructure ravaged by WW II and still only managed two decades of exceptional growth (the 50's and 60's) under their "Democratic Socialist Middle Way" before the economy went into a nearly 3 decades long tail spin which they'd still be in without the EU, access to the ECB and subsidized national defense and even with those factors buoying their economy it's still subject to the whims of high foreign capital inflow and high export demand.

Exceptionally high tax rates and an expensive welfare state leave an economy little margin for error.

Where tax goes up to 60 per cent, and everybody's happy paying it
Sweden: Where tax goes up to 60 per cent, and everybody's happy paying it

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Average Joes are tired of being stomped on by the American oligarchy.

You'd rather be stomped on by socialist dictators eh?

how did you come to that conclusion we are talking about the nordic model these are the most democratic nations on earth Democracy Index - Wikipedia

No thanks. We have far to many miscreants in this country for it to work here.
Hell even leftist in mexiforonia dropped the idea of single payer when they saw the price tag.

 

[BILLSANDS]

IMHO, socialism is gaining in popularity these days because it offers too much free stuff to people who don't want to work for it. They don't want to take responsibility for themselves or make the effort to earn all the stuff they want. It's easier to vote for somebody who will give you as much as possible, even though they do not follow through.

or maybe they work too hard for too little

 

[dblack]

Primarily because the Right has done a horrible, feeble job of defending against it.

True that. They've adopted much of it as their own.

The minute it allowed libertarian ideals to dominate its message, it opened the door to people like Bernie Sanders.

Heh.. I wish. The "Right" has never allowed libertarian ideals to dominate its message. If it had, it would have done a better job defending against socialism.

 

[Mac1958]

Primarily because the Right has done a horrible, feeble job of defending against it.

True that. They've adopted much of it as their own.

The minute it allowed libertarian ideals to dominate its message, it opened the door to people like Bernie Sanders.

Heh.. I wish. The "Right" has never allowed libertarian ideals to dominate its message. If it had, it would have done a better job defending against socialism.

All I hear from the Right is anti-government, anti-tax, anti-safety net, and anti-entitlements. That's pretty libertarian.

Most people don't agree with such a binary approach.
.

 

[NightFox]

If I was 40 year younger I'd probably be a socialist feeling that with the I.O.U. previous generations have stuck us with, the government owes us.

for almost 100 years sweden has had a socialist sort of system and people are very prosperpus and successful there

Nice bit of revisionism there ….

Since the post war period Sweden has suffered severe economic crisis in the 1970's, 1980's and early 1990's falling from 4th in GDP per capita to 16th by 1998, Sweden's economy only began a real recovery after joining the EU in 1995 and undergoing major structural reforms and even today still has one of the highest marginal tax rates in the developed world and a high dependence on foreign investment and exports.

… and all that with a TINY (10 million) relatively homogenous population.

Sweden's economic model is nothing to emulate unless you happen to be a country with a tiny homogenous population with access to the common market, the ECB and subsidized national defense.

Donald Trump's - and it is proving hugely successful
On average, all strata of Swedish society are getting richer. Compare that to the low-tax US, where most Americans' incomes have fallen

• Sweden's tax plan is the anti-Trump - and it's proving hugely successful

Please tell me you're not yet another one of those posters that thinks that argument by editorial link dump is a substitute for developing a reason & evidence based one of your own.

After all If I wanted to read someone else's opinions on the subject at hand I wouldn't be wasting my time talking to you, would I?.

 

[BILLSANDS]

Average Joes are tired of being stomped on by the American oligarchy.

You'd rather be stomped on by socialist dictators eh?

how did you come to that conclusion we are talking about the nordic model these are the most democratic nations on earth Democracy Index - Wikipedia

No thanks. We have far to many miscreants in this country for it to work here.
Hell even leftist in mexiforonia dropped the idea of single payer when they saw the price tag.

Healthcare in the US and Australia - a comparison

 

[dblack]

All I hear from the Right is anti-government, anti-tax, anti-safety net, and anti-entitlements. That's pretty libertarian.

That's a small slice of libertarianism. And Republican don't follow through on this. Most of the other Libertarian positions are reviled by Republicans. Libertarians are pro-liberty on both social issues AND economic issues. When we're arguing for open-borders, gay marriage and drug legalization, we're labeled "leftists". When we're defending economic liberty and promoting limited government, we're "far right". Neither side likes us because we won't support their mutual desire to use government to manipulate society.

 

[Brain357]

Primarily because the Right has done a horrible, feeble job of defending against it.

True that. They've adopted much of it as their own.

The minute it allowed libertarian ideals to dominate its message, it opened the door to people like Bernie Sanders.

Heh.. I wish. The "Right" has never allowed libertarian ideals to dominate its message. If it had, it would have done a better job defending against socialism.

All I hear from the Right is anti-government, anti-tax, anti-safety net, and anti-entitlements. That's pretty libertarian.

Most people don't agree with such a binary approach.
.

The right loves corporate welfare. Are deals like Foxconn anti-government? What they say and do are very different.

 

[bodecea]

IMHO, socialism is gaining in popularity these days because it offers too much free stuff to people who don't want to work for it. They don't want to take responsibility for themselves or make the effort to earn all the stuff they want. It's easier to vote for somebody who will give you as much as possible, even though they do not follow through.

History has a tendency to repeat itself....these days are turning out more and more like the latter decades of the 1880s when the Progressive Movement rose in response to the Robber Barons.

 

[Mac1958]

Primarily because the Right has done a horrible, feeble job of defending against it.

True that. They've adopted much of it as their own.

The minute it allowed libertarian ideals to dominate its message, it opened the door to people like Bernie Sanders.

Heh.. I wish. The "Right" has never allowed libertarian ideals to dominate its message. If it had, it would have done a better job defending against socialism.

All I hear from the Right is anti-government, anti-tax, anti-safety net, and anti-entitlements. That's pretty libertarian.

It's a small slice of libertarianism. And Republican don't follow through on this. Most of the other Libertarian positions are reviled by Republicans. Libertarians are pro-liberty on both social issues AND economic issues. When we're arguing for open-borders, gay marriage and drug legalization, we're labeled "leftists". When we're defending economic liberty and promoting limited government, we're "far right". Neither side likes us because we won't support their mutual desire to use government to manipulate society.

Well first, I'm talking primarily about the economic side, and I actually like having libertarians around to remind us about keeping the government under control.

The problem is how important image and PR are in politics. While the more moderate and reasonable Republicans (commie radical pinko RINOs, I guess) are willing to concede the value of Social Security and Medicare and various types of government involvement and costs, the loudest voices can be heard screaming FREELOADERS and demanding that every last safety net is cut down.

These are the people I'm talking about, and since they're the loudest voices, they don't make the party look good. They make it look ignorant, naive and petty.
.

 

[task0778]

First, a quick history lesson:

Actually, the Swedes were doing pretty good in the post-WWII era until the socialists took over in the 1970s. The 1970s were a decade of radical government intervention in society and in markets, during which Sweden doubled its overall tax burden, socialized a slew of industries, regulated its markets, expanded its public systems, and shuttered its borders. In 1970, Sweden had the world’s fourth highest GDP per capita. By 1990, it had fallen 13 positions. In those 20 years, real wages in Sweden increased by only one percentage point. …By the late 1980s, though, Sweden had started deregulating its markets once again, decreased its marginal tax rates, and opted for a sound money, low inflation policy. In the early 1990s, the pace quickened, and most markets except for labor and housing were liberalized. The state sold its shares in a number of companies, granted independence to its central bank, and introduced school vouchers that improved choice and competition in education. Stockholm slashed public pensions and introduced private retirement schemes, keeping the system demographically sustainable. These decisive economic liberalizations, and not socialism, are what laid the foundations for Sweden’s success over the last 20 years. …Today, the state’s total tax take comes to 45% of GDP, from 56% ten years ago. Meanwhile, unemployment benefits, sick leave and early retirement plans have all been streamlined to encourage work.


Excerpts from a Business Insider article:

For starters, the Swedish government maintains a strict budget surplus — at least 1 percent — over an economic cycle, and sets limits on what the government can spend in a given year. The model is flexible and allows for increased spending during a downturn, but the rules are stringent: The lost ground must be made up during the next upswing.

A better way of comparing efficiency is looking at how much each country spends on a specific, comparable basket of services, regardless of who pays for it. The OECD has done exactly this, and found that when it comes to a specific array of social services, including items such as health care, pensions, unemployment benefits, child care, or credits for families with children, the United States ends up spending almost exactly as much as Sweden does in relation to GDP.

Not only that, but Finland, Denmark, and Norway all spent less than the United States in relation to GDP for the same basket of services. This makes Nordic countries more efficient than the United States in producing these essential services — they pay less, but the quality and results of their services are in many ways just as good or even better than what Americans get.

Here's why Nordic governments are WAY ahead of the rest of the world

You know why we are so inefficient in providing services? It's because our gov't totally sucks, we're too busy arguing and pointing fingers at each other to do the tough job of doing what's best for the country rather than oursleves or our party. There is NOTHING wrong with our economic model that good and effective governance can't fix.

 

[RDD_1210]

Simple. America is getting dumber.

There’s a good show about socialism it’s called Idiocracy

It depicts socialism perfectly

So do you not understand what the definition of Socialism is? Or did Idiocracy go over your head?

 

[dblack]

... I actually like having libertarians around to remind us about keeping the government under control.

The why are you blaming them for the failures of the Republicans?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Love it or hate it, is it not peculiar an idea that has been so taboo in our society is now mainstream, what happened? Why is socialism suddenly so popular?

Because they don't actually know what it is.

 

[dblack]

or maybe they work too hard for too little

That's a big part of it. And they should stop. But people don't seem to have the capacity to make difficult decisions for themselves. They want a parental figure to show up and make it all better. They can't conceive of quitting a job that sucks. I'm not saying it's easy, but for fuck's sake, if you don't like the way an employer is treating you, don't put up with it.

 

[Mac1958]

... I actually like having libertarians around to remind us about keeping the government under control.

The why are you blaming them for the failures of the Republicans?

I'm not. Not libertarians, but how it's being used. Look at my post, I said "libertarian ideals". Many Republicans have cherry-picked parts of libertarianism while ignoring others. They've been trained to attack virtually any government involvement outside of the military without even considering its positives. They've taken Reagan's "government is the problem" speech line and turned it into freakin' gospel.

I actually voted for Harry Browne back in the day, not so much because I completely agreed with the platform, but because he was a dignified and articulate representative. These people are pretty much the opposite.
.

 

[Toronado3800]

Love it or hate it, is it not peculiar an idea that has been so taboo in our society is now mainstream, what happened? Why is socialism suddenly so popular?

Progressives are fucked in the head...

And they have no education then being snowflakes in their safe spaces.

Oh wow. The intellectual debate begins here.

I hear there are snowflakes on all sides btw. Some folks actually get OFFENDED when a boy kneels during the national anthem.

Kneeling offends them snowflakes I tell you, kneeling like at the Catholic Mass or when you get knighted.

But the important part is what they are kneeling for. Kneeling at the altar or to be knight is a sign of submission and acceptance, possibly contrition. Kneeling at the anthem is a symbolic defiance because it is the opposite of standing to respect those who literally gave their lives for the freedoms we enjoy. It is akin to giving the finger instead of placing one hand over the heart for the pledge. I love my country and appreciate the sacrifices made so I can raise my family here. Those who attack that are attacking what I hold dear. Are you saying this should not offend me? I think they should respect those things even if they don’t honor them. I believe our constitution allows me to be offended but does not allow me to silence the voices of those who offend me. Does this make me a snowflake, that I disagree with those who dishonor the sacrifices made for my freedom?


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If you were like off the hook uncool about something you'd go yell and chant and wave flags at funeral processions of dead soldiers.

If you wanted to peacefully protest in a respectful manner you kneel.

 

[task0778]

Sweden had successfully moved into the high-income group of countries by 1955-56.

Yeah and then (as I pointed out) it flamed out in the 1970's and didn't begin to recover until the late 1990's. They had the benefit of not having their economic infrastructure ravaged by WW II and still only managed two decades of exceptional growth (the 50's and 60's) under their "Democratic Socialist Middle Way" before the economy went into a nearly 3 decades long tail spin which they'd still be in without the EU, access to the ECB and subsidized national defense and even with those factors buoying their economy it's still subject to the whims of high foreign capital inflow and high export demand.

Exceptionally high tax rates and an expensive welfare state leave an economy little margin for error.

Where tax goes up to 60 per cent, and everybody's happy paying it
Sweden: Where tax goes up to 60 per cent, and everybody's happy paying it

You realize what the key word is in your post? It's EVERYBODY, they don't have almost half the citizens paying no federal income tax. They have a VAT tax that is around 25% that everybody pays, and then they pay income and other taxes on top of that. EVERYBODY dude, not just the top 1 or 10%. None of this tax the rich bullshit that you guys constantly bitch about.

Do you also know why they're happy about that? It's cuz they get their money's worth, they live within their means, and they don't have many freeloaders. Hey, I'll tell you what though, you democrats run on a platform where the average American pays around 50% in total taxes, including a 25% VAT, and everybody pays. Let's see how many votes you get.