CDZ Why I used to be keen on Mr. Trump and why today I am not

[TNHarley]

I am fully against tax credits. But am I going to turn them down in February? Hell no.
Same goes with him. This is just ignorant reasons to be against him.
Look at the way he buys politicians. So what? the establishment gamed the system. Don't be mad at him. Be mad at the whack jobs you voted for that implemented that crap.
He wants to make this a business environment. He wants to make it to where people don't get punished for keeping their money/jobs here. He wants to make it to where companies WANT to produce here. We don't have that now.
There are MANY reasons to dislike Trump, but this is stupid. Period.
"WWWWAAAAAHHHHHH he is playing along in the system WE created. WWWWWAAAAAHHHHHH"

Trump didn't have to start a line of clothing. He wasn't forced to play along in the system.

There are American clothiers. Hart Schafer Marx is an American suit maker. Allen Edmonds is a maker of fine shoes in Wisconsin. Trump could have chosen to have his clothes made in America.

That is ridiculous lol. I hope you know that.
Having a business is about making money. If our establishment didn't cripple american businesses, he probably would have made them here.
I just ordered a Carhartt (american made) jacket the other day. It was 90 bucks. I could have gotten a similar one from china for 18.

Other American clothiers have made it in America. He could have also. He made that choice.

Trump is part of the establishment. He's the guy giving money to the politicians to perpetuate the system. And he benefitted enormously from it.

He wants to gut the establishment, Toro. Are you lying or just ignorant?
Again, he just takes advantage of what the establishment gives people with money.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Oh, as it pertains to your jacket, do you believe that raising taxes on your jacket so that the price rises from $18 to $90 will create jobs and produce a good business environment? Isn't this what liberals do?

It's what liberal's should do......but don't.

 

[Correll]

I am fully against tax credits. But am I going to turn them down in February? Hell no.
Same goes with him. This is just ignorant reasons to be against him.
Look at the way he buys politicians. So what? the establishment gamed the system. Don't be mad at him. Be mad at the whack jobs you voted for that implemented that crap.
He wants to make this a business environment. He wants to make it to where people don't get punished for keeping their money/jobs here. He wants to make it to where companies WANT to produce here. We don't have that now.
There are MANY reasons to dislike Trump, but this is stupid. Period.
"WWWWAAAAAHHHHHH he is playing along in the system WE created. WWWWWAAAAAHHHHHH"

Trump didn't have to start a line of clothing. He wasn't forced to play along in the system.

There are American clothiers. Hart Schafer Marx is an American suit maker. Allen Edmonds is a maker of fine shoes in Wisconsin. Trump could have chosen to have his clothes made in America.

I imagine that those guys are pretty special.

Trump is a businessman, with no special talent for clothing that I am aware of.

It would have been very impressive if he had built a domestic clothing company.

That he went with the norm in the market and did not, is not really a minus.

He doesn't have a special talent for clothing. That's why he's not forced to play the game. He didn't have to go into clothing. He made that choice.

His special talent isn't even in real estate. His talent is branding.

So, why would you expect that he could buck the factors that have driven the vast majority of our clothing production overseas?

 

[Toro]

I am fully against tax credits. But am I going to turn them down in February? Hell no.
Same goes with him. This is just ignorant reasons to be against him.
Look at the way he buys politicians. So what? the establishment gamed the system. Don't be mad at him. Be mad at the whack jobs you voted for that implemented that crap.
He wants to make this a business environment. He wants to make it to where people don't get punished for keeping their money/jobs here. He wants to make it to where companies WANT to produce here. We don't have that now.
There are MANY reasons to dislike Trump, but this is stupid. Period.
"WWWWAAAAAHHHHHH he is playing along in the system WE created. WWWWWAAAAAHHHHHH"

Trump didn't have to start a line of clothing. He wasn't forced to play along in the system.

There are American clothiers. Hart Schafer Marx is an American suit maker. Allen Edmonds is a maker of fine shoes in Wisconsin. Trump could have chosen to have his clothes made in America.

That is ridiculous lol. I hope you know that.
Having a business is about making money. If our establishment didn't cripple american businesses, he probably would have made them here.
I just ordered a Carhartt (american made) jacket the other day. It was 90 bucks. I could have gotten a similar one from china for 18.

Other American clothiers have made it in America. He could have also. He made that choice.

Trump is part of the establishment. He's the guy giving money to the politicians to perpetuate the system. And he benefitted enormously from it.

He wants to gut the establishment, Toro. Are you lying or just ignorant?
Again, he just takes advantage of what the establishment gives people with money.

He tells you that because that's what you want to hear. He's a salesman.

Trump is the establishment. He's the guy pulling the strings behind the scenes. He's been the guy giving money to both parties for personal and political gain.

That's why he's been a Democrat, a Republican and an independent all in the last 15 years.

 

[Toro]

I am fully against tax credits. But am I going to turn them down in February? Hell no.
Same goes with him. This is just ignorant reasons to be against him.
Look at the way he buys politicians. So what? the establishment gamed the system. Don't be mad at him. Be mad at the whack jobs you voted for that implemented that crap.
He wants to make this a business environment. He wants to make it to where people don't get punished for keeping their money/jobs here. He wants to make it to where companies WANT to produce here. We don't have that now.
There are MANY reasons to dislike Trump, but this is stupid. Period.
"WWWWAAAAAHHHHHH he is playing along in the system WE created. WWWWWAAAAAHHHHHH"

Trump didn't have to start a line of clothing. He wasn't forced to play along in the system.

There are American clothiers. Hart Schafer Marx is an American suit maker. Allen Edmonds is a maker of fine shoes in Wisconsin. Trump could have chosen to have his clothes made in America.

I imagine that those guys are pretty special.

Trump is a businessman, with no special talent for clothing that I am aware of.

It would have been very impressive if he had built a domestic clothing company.

That he went with the norm in the market and did not, is not really a minus.

He doesn't have a special talent for clothing. That's why he's not forced to play the game. He didn't have to go into clothing. He made that choice.

His special talent isn't even in real estate. His talent is branding.

So, why would you expect that he could buck the factors that have driven the vast majority of our clothing production overseas?

Because others have. Allen Edmonds is a great example. They make fantastic shoes in America. It's all I buy now.

People pay up for luxury brands. Trump wants to be a luxury brand. Like Allen Edmonds, he could have made luxury clothing in America.

The best suits are not made in China. They are made in Europe and Canada. Those are high cost economies.

 

[TNHarley]

I am fully against tax credits. But am I going to turn them down in February? Hell no.
Same goes with him. This is just ignorant reasons to be against him.
Look at the way he buys politicians. So what? the establishment gamed the system. Don't be mad at him. Be mad at the whack jobs you voted for that implemented that crap.
He wants to make this a business environment. He wants to make it to where people don't get punished for keeping their money/jobs here. He wants to make it to where companies WANT to produce here. We don't have that now.
There are MANY reasons to dislike Trump, but this is stupid. Period.
"WWWWAAAAAHHHHHH he is playing along in the system WE created. WWWWWAAAAAHHHHHH"

Trump didn't have to start a line of clothing. He wasn't forced to play along in the system.

There are American clothiers. Hart Schafer Marx is an American suit maker. Allen Edmonds is a maker of fine shoes in Wisconsin. Trump could have chosen to have his clothes made in America.

That is ridiculous lol. I hope you know that.
Having a business is about making money. If our establishment didn't cripple american businesses, he probably would have made them here.
I just ordered a Carhartt (american made) jacket the other day. It was 90 bucks. I could have gotten a similar one from china for 18.

Other American clothiers have made it in America. He could have also. He made that choice.

Trump is part of the establishment. He's the guy giving money to the politicians to perpetuate the system. And he benefitted enormously from it.

He wants to gut the establishment, Toro. Are you lying or just ignorant?
Again, he just takes advantage of what the establishment gives people with money.

He tells you that because that's what you want to hear. He's a salesman.

Trump is the establishment. He's the guy pulling the strings behind the scenes. He's been the guy giving money to both parties for personal and political gain.

That's why he's been a Democrat, a Republican and an independent all in the last 15 years.

He is a businessman. I don't understand why you cant grasp that simple concept..

 

[Toro]

Oh, as it pertains to your jacket, do you believe that raising taxes on your jacket so that the price rises from $18 to $90 will create jobs and produce a good business environment? Isn't this what liberals do?

It's what liberal's should do......but don't.

No they shouldn't.

It's one of the worst, most wealth destructive taxes going.

 

[Toro]

Trump didn't have to start a line of clothing. He wasn't forced to play along in the system.

There are American clothiers. Hart Schafer Marx is an American suit maker. Allen Edmonds is a maker of fine shoes in Wisconsin. Trump could have chosen to have his clothes made in America.

That is ridiculous lol. I hope you know that.
Having a business is about making money. If our establishment didn't cripple american businesses, he probably would have made them here.
I just ordered a Carhartt (american made) jacket the other day. It was 90 bucks. I could have gotten a similar one from china for 18.

Other American clothiers have made it in America. He could have also. He made that choice.

Trump is part of the establishment. He's the guy giving money to the politicians to perpetuate the system. And he benefitted enormously from it.

He wants to gut the establishment, Toro. Are you lying or just ignorant?
Again, he just takes advantage of what the establishment gives people with money.

He tells you that because that's what you want to hear. He's a salesman.

Trump is the establishment. He's the guy pulling the strings behind the scenes. He's been the guy giving money to both parties for personal and political gain.

That's why he's been a Democrat, a Republican and an independent all in the last 15 years.

He is a businessman. I don't understand why you cant grasp that simple concept..

I don't blame him for being a businessman.

I blame him for offering political solutions that he himself could have implemented but chose not to.

If a politician makes family values a central part of his campaign, then gets caught banging his secretary, people are going to question him about it.

 

[TNHarley]

That is ridiculous lol. I hope you know that.
Having a business is about making money. If our establishment didn't cripple american businesses, he probably would have made them here.
I just ordered a Carhartt (american made) jacket the other day. It was 90 bucks. I could have gotten a similar one from china for 18.

Other American clothiers have made it in America. He could have also. He made that choice.

Trump is part of the establishment. He's the guy giving money to the politicians to perpetuate the system. And he benefitted enormously from it.

He wants to gut the establishment, Toro. Are you lying or just ignorant?
Again, he just takes advantage of what the establishment gives people with money.

He tells you that because that's what you want to hear. He's a salesman.

Trump is the establishment. He's the guy pulling the strings behind the scenes. He's been the guy giving money to both parties for personal and political gain.

That's why he's been a Democrat, a Republican and an independent all in the last 15 years.

He is a businessman. I don't understand why you cant grasp that simple concept..

I don't blame him for being a businessman.

I blame him for offering political solutions that he himself could have implemented but chose not to.

If a politician makes family values a central part of his campaign, then gets caught banging his secretary, people are going to question him about it.

I want tax credits eliminated but I don't turn them down in Feb. 99% of humans do that Toro. Why should he be any different? He wants to change things. Why is that a bad thing?

 

[Correll]

I am fully against tax credits. But am I going to turn them down in February? Hell no.
Same goes with him. This is just ignorant reasons to be against him.
Look at the way he buys politicians. So what? the establishment gamed the system. Don't be mad at him. Be mad at the whack jobs you voted for that implemented that crap.
He wants to make this a business environment. He wants to make it to where people don't get punished for keeping their money/jobs here. He wants to make it to where companies WANT to produce here. We don't have that now.
There are MANY reasons to dislike Trump, but this is stupid. Period.
"WWWWAAAAAHHHHHH he is playing along in the system WE created. WWWWWAAAAAHHHHHH"

Trump didn't have to start a line of clothing. He wasn't forced to play along in the system.

There are American clothiers. Hart Schafer Marx is an American suit maker. Allen Edmonds is a maker of fine shoes in Wisconsin. Trump could have chosen to have his clothes made in America.

I imagine that those guys are pretty special.

Trump is a businessman, with no special talent for clothing that I am aware of.

It would have been very impressive if he had built a domestic clothing company.

That he went with the norm in the market and did not, is not really a minus.

He doesn't have a special talent for clothing. That's why he's not forced to play the game. He didn't have to go into clothing. He made that choice.

His special talent isn't even in real estate. His talent is branding.

So, why would you expect that he could buck the factors that have driven the vast majority of our clothing production overseas?

Because others have. Allen Edmonds is a great example. They make fantastic shoes in America. It's all I buy now.

People pay up for luxury brands. Trump wants to be a luxury brand. Like Allen Edmonds, he could have made luxury clothing in America.

The best suits are not made in China. They are made in Europe and Canada. Those are high cost economies.

Others with special talent for clothing, which we agree Trump does not have.

WHat percentage of the market is made in America?

 

[320 Years of History]

This thread doesn't have enough references to Hillary for my liking. Step it up, nutbags!

The thread is not about Mrs. Clinton; it's not a thread about comparisons. It's about Mr. Trump and his recurring demonstration that he does not, 100% of the time, stick to his word when the only person in the world driving whether he is able to stick to his word is Mr. Trump.

 

[Camp]

He's doing what he has to do to stay competitive.
You have to be willing to pay higher prices for goods made in America which I'm willing to do to bring those jobs back.

It would be horrible if he had to replace the gold bathroom fixtures in dozens of bathrooms in his huge mansions and condo's.

 

[320 Years of History]

As a businessman Trump played by the rules and in the environment that other people created.

As a President he would have a shot at making those rules.

His proposals for those rules sound pretty good. Far better than any I have heard from the other candidates, both parties.

I'm not saying that those things aren't so. I'm saying that, unlike what I know or don't know about his fellow Republican candidates, I know for a fact that Mr. Trump does not reliably keep his word, and it's clear that whether he will or will not keep his word depends not on what he wants at any given time, not on whether he has stated "such and such" a course of intended action on a given matter.

I don't trust people who do that. Do you?

Red:
Look at my remarks in section headed "Red" in post #9. Read this:

• http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...tifies-in-breach-of-contract-lawsuit/2073681/

The case centers on Trump's dealings with ALM International, a New York firm that sought clothing industry licensing deals on his behalf. ALM helped arrange a 2004 meeting with executives of apparel giant PVH, formerly known as Phillips-Van Heusen. With ALM involved in subsequent negotiations, PVH ultimately licensed Trump's name for a line of dress shirts and formal neckware.

In the acrimonious, ALM alleges Trump improperly halted its payments in 2008 after paying the firm approximately $300,000 over 11 consecutive quarters — a period in which court records show the Donald personally signed checks to the firm for its efforts.

"Mr. Trump decided he didn't want to pay anymore, notwithstanding the fact that there was an agreement that my client get 10% of whatever Mr. Trump got for each and every time the contract with PVH was renewed and continued," ALM attorney Jay Itkowitz argued during opening statements on Tuesday.​

• Trump decries licensing firm’s claims

“[Mr. Trump's] position in this case is that his accounting department and his trusted employees presented him with checks that were reviewed at various levels and he signed them,” Itkowitz said. “Now he’s saying it’s all a big mistake. Ultimately, whether that’s a big mistake is going to be decided by a jury.”​

I haven't yet found the actual court testimony for that case, and I don't know what the outcome was/is, so for now all I can say is it may represent an instance wherein Mr. Trump decided he wanted to go back on his word in a business deal. For now, I can only say that it looks that way; if/when I find the details, I'll know whether it is as was alleged in that case. (Unlike a lot of folks, I make a genuine effort to "do my homework" and focus on and discuss "what is" and not go with "what it looks like it is.")


An observation unrelated to the thread/post topic:
I suspect Mr. Trump to be a micromanager. I don't know that he is; I haven't looked expressly to find out. I'm merely making an inference from what I read in the articles cited above in this post.

I know only that earlier in my career, I participated in the business process transformation projects in about a dozen multi-billion dollar organizations, and at a junior enough level that I came by the following: in not one of them was the CEO required to sign a check for $30K or less. See the 300K paid over 11 quarters; I don't know if that was a check per quarter, but the language makes it sound that way.

I know that an individual can be very successful in business, big business even, as a micromanager. I understand that in small business, micro-managing can be a key success factor. But I know too that as U.S. President, micro-managing is part of the recipe for lackluster achievement, if not failure. The older folks around here will recall that one of the things that helped make Ronald Reagan an effective leader/President was his adroit delegation of responsibility and authority.

​

 

[320 Years of History]

I enjoy his tax and trade policies. They are actually pro-American.
Even the people that talk shit about the tax plan say ti would add 4% growth. And that doesn't even INCLUDE his trade policies. Those globalist hacks are scared to consider that!

The question isn't whether Mr. Trump's stated policies are any good. The question is can he be relied upon to follow through on implementing them (or at least trying vigorously to do so)?

Based on his actions that I know about so far, for me that answer is, "I don't know." Not, "I think so." Not "Yes."

I ask the following.

• If one is keen on Mr. Trump, wouldn't one want to see an unbroken track record of his sticking to his word?
• Absent such a track record, is the man trustworthy?

 

[320 Years of History]

I see some members talking about Mr. Trump's clothing line and tax credits/rates, and whatnot. As interesting as that discussion may be, and I think it is intersting....

That is not the topic of this thread!

The topic/question here is whether Mr. Trump can be trusted to do as he's stated he (today) thinks should be done.

Please stay on topic.

 

[TNHarley]

I enjoy his tax and trade policies. They are actually pro-American.
Even the people that talk shit about the tax plan say ti would add 4% growth. And that doesn't even INCLUDE his trade policies. Those globalist hacks are scared to consider that!

The question isn't whether Mr. Trump's stated policies are any good. The question is can he be relied upon to follow through on implementing them (or at least trying vigorously to do so)?

Based on his actions that I know about so far, for me that answer is, "I don't know." Not, "I think so." Not "Yes."

Take Mr. Obama for example. For all their griping about him, conservatives at least feel like they know what he is going to do. That's with someone from the opposition. Is it asking too much to have that same level of certainty and trust with regard to one's ally?

WOW lol

 

[TNHarley]

I see some members talking about Mr. Trump's clothing line and tax credits/rates, and whatnot. As interesting as that discussion may be, and I think it is intersting....

That is not the topic of this thread!

The topic/question here is whether Mr. Trump can be trusted to do as he's stated he (today) thinks should be done.

Please stay on topic.

hey genius. I replied directly to the OP and didn't get a reply. Eat your words.

 

[320 Years of History]

I enjoy his tax and trade policies. They are actually pro-American.
Even the people that talk shit about the tax plan say ti would add 4% growth. And that doesn't even INCLUDE his trade policies. Those globalist hacks are scared to consider that!

The question isn't whether Mr. Trump's stated policies are any good. The question is can he be relied upon to follow through on implementing them (or at least trying vigorously to do so)?

Based on his actions that I know about so far, for me that answer is, "I don't know." Not, "I think so." Not "Yes."

Take Mr. Obama for example. For all their griping about him, conservatives at least feel like they know what he is going to do. That's with someone from the opposition. Is it asking too much to have that same level of certainty and trust with regard to one's ally?

WOW lol

Does "WOW lol" mean you don't have a direct answer to the questions I asked? Does it mean something else?

I don't know what to make of that remark.

 

[320 Years of History]

I see some members talking about Mr. Trump's clothing line and tax credits/rates, and whatnot. As interesting as that discussion may be, and I think it is intersting....

That is not the topic of this thread!

The topic/question here is whether Mr. Trump can be trusted to do as he's stated he (today) thinks should be done.

Please stay on topic.

hey genius. I replied directly to the OP and didn't get a reply. Eat your words.

The fact is that you have been both on and off topic. I can see that as well as anyone else can.

In the post you quoted, I'm merely asking that you and others remain on topic.

 

[S.J.]

I enjoy his tax and trade policies. They are actually pro-American.
Even the people that talk shit about the tax plan say ti would add 4% growth. And that doesn't even INCLUDE his trade policies. Those globalist hacks are scared to consider that!

The question isn't whether Mr. Trump's stated policies are any good. The question is can he be relied upon to follow through on implementing them (or at least trying vigorously to do so)?

Based on his actions that I know about so far, for me that answer is, "I don't know." Not, "I think so." Not "Yes."

Take Mr. Obama for example. For all their griping about him, conservatives at least feel like they know what he is going to do. That's with someone from the opposition. Is it asking too much to have that same level of certainty and trust with regard to one's ally?

Obama is not the topic of this thread. Please stay on topic!