CDZ Is it good for America when manufacturers opt to produce their wares abroad?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by 320 Years of History, Dec 28, 2015.

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Is it good for America that American owned manufacturers opt to produce their wares abroad?

Poll closed Dec 28, 2017.
  1. Yes, or mostly yes.

    21.4%
  2. No, or mostly no.

    64.3%
  3. I don't know enough about business and economics to have a well informed opinion.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. I don't know enough about business and economics to have a well informed opinion, but basically yes.

    7.1%
  5. I don't know enough about business and economics to have a well informed opinion, but basically no.

    7.1%
  1. 320 Years of History
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    320 Years of History Gold Member

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    Time an time again, I encounter folks who assert that manufacturing jobs being "shipped" abroad is bad for the U.S., at least to the extent that the manufacturers are American companies. I would rather that American manufacturers produce their goods domestically, but I don't really have a problem with them opting instead to do so abroad. What do you think?
     
  2. Nosmo King
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    Nosmo King Gold Member

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    The direct and indisputable effect of losing manufacturing here in the United States is the loss of the middle class. How on earth can that be seen as a good thing?
     
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  3. ABikerSailor
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    ABikerSailor Diamond Member

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    I think that shipping our jobs overseas is bad for the country. That's why I'm against the TPP, because it would allow countries with no minimum wage to compete for manufacturing jobs with American companies.

    Ovation guitars (the kind that REO Speedwagon plays), used to be made in America as an iconic American guitar, but due to business decisions they decided to relocate overseas. One of the workers at the factory refused to give up, and eventually found investors that were willing to re open the factory here in America so that Ovation could remain an American made guitar.

    Production of Ovation guitars resuming in Connecticut
     
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  4. 320 Years of History
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    320 Years of History Gold Member

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    The last time I looked, the U.S. yet has a middle class and has for the entirely of the past 50 years which is about how long the matter of "shipping jobs abroad" has been one of concern to some people and groups in the U.S.

    According to the New York Times, "The middle class, if defined as households making between $35,000 and $100,000 a year, shrank in the final decades of the 20th century. For a welcome reason, though: More Americans moved up into what might be considered the upper middle class or the affluent." In light of that, are you suggesting that the risk is that the U.S. is headed toward a fate similar to and caused by similar structural failings observed in the Mogul Empire?
     
  5. Nosmo King
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    Nosmo King Gold Member

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    I can speak from personal experience. I live in the upper Ohio River valley, just 30 miles from Pittsburgh. When the steel industry packed up and was literally shipped to Asia and Latin America, the jobs of all those steel workers went with the physical apparatuses of steel making. And beyond that, the merchants, shop keepers and ancillary services melted away. Neighborhoods were abandoned and blighted, whole towns were ruined and families were dispersed around the south and west. Do you wonder why the Pitsburgh Steelers seem to have fans everywhere? Because the residents of my valley were scattered around the country.

    And that's just one industry. In Wooster, Ohio Rubbermaid had a manufacturing plant. But when they wanted to market their wares in WalMart, those folks in Bentonville told the manufacturer to price their goods below a level that could be profitable. WalMart said that manufacturing in China would reduce costs because the Chinese would make the ware and pay slave wages. So Rubbermaid took the low road and closed the Wooster plant. That eliminated jobs and lead to further unemployment, blight and ruin.

    Tell me where in America the loss of jobs has been a boon to local economies.
     
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  6. Elvis Obama
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    Elvis Obama VIP Member

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    The middle class is everything. It is constantly threatened by greed, and unfortunately our government is entirely owned by the forces of greed. Greed has its uses. Greed is an important motivator, but the modern economic system we have created is exactly that, a system, and it requires that money circulates. Wage stagnation and income inequality are the consequences of greed being over represented in our political system. Of course manufacturers like to pay their workers pennies on the dollar. They circumvent our petty little minimum wage laws and take advantage of the huge labor pool of more exploitable people overseas.

    A rational balance needs to be maintained. Politicians that can be bought and sold cannot maintain that balance.

    Here's the rest of your NY Times quote: "Since 2000, the middle class has been shrinking for a decidedly more alarming reason: Incomes have fallen."
     
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  7. TheOldSchool
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    Hilarious name and avatar :thup:
     
  8. william the wie
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    william the wie Gold Member

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    I think the headcount per million dollars manufactured keeps on dropping. So, anyone who thinks insourcing will produce net jobs is not thinking.
     
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  9. Spare_change
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    Spare_change Gold Member

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    Because, if you investigate the 'loss of the middle class', you will see that the greatest migration is from middle to upper class. On the flip side, the entitlement subculture that we have created has hindered migration from low to middle class.
     
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  10. Nosmo King
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    That is counter intuitive at best, total obfuscation at least. Given the facts of wage stagnation, loss of jobs, and rising costs how many people have enjoyed the fairy tale you proffer?
     
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