Why I Could Never Be GOP or Libertarian

[The Sage of Main Street]

[

If you're boogyman Democrats weren't fraternity brothers with the GOPers, they would have outlawed outsourcing.

Outlawed outsourcing?

So, if I built skateboards, it would be illegal for me to buy the wheel assembly from another company?

...

Fascism and Fantasy

Do you get a thrill out of imagining yourself as a rich businessman who can betray America out of greed and get away with it?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Yea but 4.5 years later Republicans are trying to say socialism/liberalism is why the gap between the rich and poor is getting bigger.

Just one look at Wells Fargo's $100 million golden parachute payout and you see that's bullshit. And this is happening at every corporations.

Republicans cry class warfare meanwhile they're winning the war

Monkey boi, can a corporation exist without the specific permission and protection of the government? IF a corporation exists at the behest of the state, is it a free market mechanism?

That's right. No such thing as a free market. Nothing's free.

This Little Piggy Went to Market

A free market means that the GreedHeads who control a market are free to do whatever they want.

 

[LaDexter]

And people in government who are left wing, they are not greedy, certainly not Hillary, who is now worth $200 million dollars by selling out policy and influence to anyone who will pay her or the Clinton Foundation - right???

 

[sealybobo]

Yea but 4.5 years later Republicans are trying to say socialism/liberalism is why the gap between the rich and poor is getting bigger.

Just one look at Wells Fargo's $100 million golden parachute payout and you see that's bullshit. And this is happening at every corporations.

Republicans cry class warfare meanwhile they're winning the war

Monkey boi, can a corporation exist without the specific permission and protection of the government? IF a corporation exists at the behest of the state, is it a free market mechanism?

That's right. No such thing as a free market. Nothing's free.

This Little Piggy Went to Market

A free market means that the GreedHeads who control a market are free to do whatever they want.

Yup. Free to pay low wages, even illegal under the table wages, free to hire temps and outsource. Free to send jobs overseas. Free to bust unions. Free to price gouge, collusion, monopolies. Unfair labor practices in general.

We all know corporations don't have souls and only care about maximizing shareholder profits. They have no soul. A corporation is not a living thing. It can't die from the pollution it may or may not cause. It will live on.

We all know a corporation if "free" to do what it wants would fuck workers in the ass. That's why we have government.

Democracy - Not "The Free Market" - Will Save America's Middle Class

 

[sealybobo]

Here are a couple of headlines for those who haven't had the time to study both economics and history:

1. There is no such thing as a "free market."

2. The "middle class" is the creation of government intervention in the marketplace, and won't exist without it (as millions of Americans and Europeans are discovering).

 

[sealybobo]

That's right. No such thing as a free market. Nothing's free.

Not if you Communists have your say.

But sadly you again simply demonstrate your abject ignorance. Free markets exist in a de facto state. When a yard sale pops up, it is a free and unfettered market, ditto flea markets and swap meets. Anywhere that government is excluded from the transaction, a market will be free.

Corporations are a vital part of a thriving economy, they are needed as a mechanism to raise sufficient capital to fund most ventures. That said, corporations are PURELY a creation of the state. IF corporations are corrupt, it is due to and at the permission of the state. Goldman Sachs, one of the most corrupt organizations in human history, could not pull the shit they do without the direct collusion of Dubya, Obammy, and Deplorable Hillary (which is why they bribe them so heavily.) You seek more government (total government) control of the market - when the corruption we see is the result of government intervention.

You seek to throw gasoline on a raging fire to douse the flames.

In actual fact, there is no such thing as a "free market." Markets are the creation of government.

Governments provide a stable currency to make markets possible. They provide a legal infrastructure and court systems to enforce the contracts that make markets possible. They provide educated workforces through public education, and those workers show up at their places of business after traveling on public roads, rails, or airways provided by government. Businesses that use the "free market" are protected by police and fire departments provided by government, and send their communications - from phone to fax to internet - over lines that follow public rights-of-way maintained and protected by government.

And, most important, the rules of the game of business are defined by government. Any sports fan can tell you that football, baseball, or hockey without rules and referees would be a mess. Similarly, business without rules won't work.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Fascism and Fantasy

Do you get a thrill out of imagining yourself as a rich businessman who can betray America out of greed and get away with it?

Leftism is the product of ignorance, as you clearly demonstrate.

Components for a product can be internally produced by a company, or they can be outsourced. I assume you have never held a job or produced anything in your life, hence you are a Bolshevik.

Let's take a really simple product, one even a leftist can follow the process of, making a teddy bear. This requires cloth, buttons for eyes, and stuffing. The cloth and stuffing are raw materials, but the buttons are a component part. So unless the teddy bear maker mixes resins and presses the button in their home, they MUST by definition outsource the button making process. Outsourcing says nothing of the country a component is manufactured in, simply that the producer of the finished good does not make a particular component internally.

 

[Uncensored2008]

This Little Piggy Went to Market

A free market means that the GreedHeads who control a market are free to do whatever they want.

No, that is not what a free market means.

You should have finished third grade.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Here are a couple of headlines for those who haven't had the time to study both economics and history:

1. There is no such thing as a "free market."

2. The "middle class" is the creation of government intervention in the marketplace, and won't exist without it (as millions of Americans and Europeans are discovering).

Two utterly stupid claims that merely demonstrate your abject ignorance. I've advised before that you find the local night school in your area and take an introductory course in economics. You are a babbling fool spewing ignorant nonsense.

Free markets are the natural state of trade. When two people meet on the street and decide to trade, that is a market and is based purely upon perceived value. Simply stated, party A will offer something that party B values in exchange for what they value. It is "free" because both sides are free to walk away if the other side does not offer what they perceive to be sufficient value.

All markets are free until some force introduces either coercion or fraud. Coercion generally is the exclusive domain of government. Government force people to sell things against their will. The most heinous example is slavery, where government forces a person to sell their time and labor against their will.

The middle class is a product of the market revolution driven by specialization of skills. Government had nothing to do with the creation of same save for the fact of Laissez Faire at the time.

The Market Revolution

 

[Uncensored2008]

[
In actual fact, there is no such thing as a "free market." Markets are the creation of government.

Repetition of ignorance does not make you less ignorant. That you have no grasp of the most basic, the most fundamental principles of economics does not render those principles less vital.

Governments provide a stable currency to make markets possible.

As they do in Ghana and Venezuela? In fact, inflated monetary policy by governments is the #1 issue that disrupts markets and strips wealth from the citizens of a given country.

They provide a legal infrastructure and court systems to enforce the contracts that make markets possible. They provide educated workforces through public education, and those workers show up at their places of business after traveling on public roads, rails, or airways provided by government. Businesses that use the "free market" are protected by police and fire departments provided by government, and send their communications - from phone to fax to internet - over lines that follow public rights-of-way maintained and protected by government.

And, most important, the rules of the game of business are defined by government. Any sports fan can tell you that football, baseball, or hockey without rules and referees would be a mess. Similarly, business without rules won't work.

The idea that a stable society is beneficial to a market is true to the extent that intervention is minimalist. Phone, fax. and internet are all private and not provided by the government.

 

[sealybobo]

[
In actual fact, there is no such thing as a "free market." Markets are the creation of government.

Repetition of ignorance does not make you less ignorant. That you have no grasp of the most basic, the most fundamental principles of economics does not render those principles less vital.

Governments provide a stable currency to make markets possible.

As they do in Ghana and Venezuela? In fact, inflated monetary policy by governments is the #1 issue that disrupts markets and strips wealth from the citizens of a given country.

They provide a legal infrastructure and court systems to enforce the contracts that make markets possible. They provide educated workforces through public education, and those workers show up at their places of business after traveling on public roads, rails, or airways provided by government. Businesses that use the "free market" are protected by police and fire departments provided by government, and send their communications - from phone to fax to internet - over lines that follow public rights-of-way maintained and protected by government.

And, most important, the rules of the game of business are defined by government. Any sports fan can tell you that football, baseball, or hockey without rules and referees would be a mess. Similarly, business without rules won't work.

The idea that a stable society is beneficial to a market is true to the extent that intervention is minimalist. Phone, fax. and internet are all private and not provided by the government.

How could I vote for a president who would not stand up to these two?
Government Shutdown Hinges On Republicans Helping Flint | Huffington Post

 

[bripat9643]

[
In actual fact, there is no such thing as a "free market." Markets are the creation of government.

Repetition of ignorance does not make you less ignorant. That you have no grasp of the most basic, the most fundamental principles of economics does not render those principles less vital.

Governments provide a stable currency to make markets possible.

As they do in Ghana and Venezuela? In fact, inflated monetary policy by governments is the #1 issue that disrupts markets and strips wealth from the citizens of a given country.

They provide a legal infrastructure and court systems to enforce the contracts that make markets possible. They provide educated workforces through public education, and those workers show up at their places of business after traveling on public roads, rails, or airways provided by government. Businesses that use the "free market" are protected by police and fire departments provided by government, and send their communications - from phone to fax to internet - over lines that follow public rights-of-way maintained and protected by government.

And, most important, the rules of the game of business are defined by government. Any sports fan can tell you that football, baseball, or hockey without rules and referees would be a mess. Similarly, business without rules won't work.

The idea that a stable society is beneficial to a market is true to the extent that intervention is minimalist. Phone, fax. and internet are all private and not provided by the government.

How could I vote for a president who would not stand up to these two?
Government Shutdown Hinges On Republicans Helping Flint | Huffington Post

"Not stand up to them?" Those are the two biggest push-overs ever elected to the offices they hold.

 

[sealybobo]

[
In actual fact, there is no such thing as a "free market." Markets are the creation of government.

Repetition of ignorance does not make you less ignorant. That you have no grasp of the most basic, the most fundamental principles of economics does not render those principles less vital.

Governments provide a stable currency to make markets possible.

As they do in Ghana and Venezuela? In fact, inflated monetary policy by governments is the #1 issue that disrupts markets and strips wealth from the citizens of a given country.

They provide a legal infrastructure and court systems to enforce the contracts that make markets possible. They provide educated workforces through public education, and those workers show up at their places of business after traveling on public roads, rails, or airways provided by government. Businesses that use the "free market" are protected by police and fire departments provided by government, and send their communications - from phone to fax to internet - over lines that follow public rights-of-way maintained and protected by government.

And, most important, the rules of the game of business are defined by government. Any sports fan can tell you that football, baseball, or hockey without rules and referees would be a mess. Similarly, business without rules won't work.

The idea that a stable society is beneficial to a market is true to the extent that intervention is minimalist. Phone, fax. and internet are all private and not provided by the government.

How could I vote for a president who would not stand up to these two?
Government Shutdown Hinges On Republicans Helping Flint | Huffington Post

"Not stand up to them?" Those are the two biggest push-overs ever elected to the offices they hold.

More rinos?

 

[sealybobo]

[
In actual fact, there is no such thing as a "free market." Markets are the creation of government.

Repetition of ignorance does not make you less ignorant. That you have no grasp of the most basic, the most fundamental principles of economics does not render those principles less vital.

Governments provide a stable currency to make markets possible.

As they do in Ghana and Venezuela? In fact, inflated monetary policy by governments is the #1 issue that disrupts markets and strips wealth from the citizens of a given country.

They provide a legal infrastructure and court systems to enforce the contracts that make markets possible. They provide educated workforces through public education, and those workers show up at their places of business after traveling on public roads, rails, or airways provided by government. Businesses that use the "free market" are protected by police and fire departments provided by government, and send their communications - from phone to fax to internet - over lines that follow public rights-of-way maintained and protected by government.

And, most important, the rules of the game of business are defined by government. Any sports fan can tell you that football, baseball, or hockey without rules and referees would be a mess. Similarly, business without rules won't work.

The idea that a stable society is beneficial to a market is true to the extent that intervention is minimalist. Phone, fax. and internet are all private and not provided by the government.

How could I vote for a president who would not stand up to these two?
Government Shutdown Hinges On Republicans Helping Flint | Huffington Post

"Not stand up to them?" Those are the two biggest push-overs ever elected to the offices they hold.

The list goes on why I could never be a Republican

GOP Blocks Probes Into Trump-Russia Ties

GOP Blocks Probes Into Trump-Russia Ties
Russian hackers are apparently trying to mess with our elections. But congressional Republicans are crippling any investigations—while their probes of Hillary Clinton continue.

 

[sealybobo]

[
In actual fact, there is no such thing as a "free market." Markets are the creation of government.

Repetition of ignorance does not make you less ignorant. That you have no grasp of the most basic, the most fundamental principles of economics does not render those principles less vital.

Governments provide a stable currency to make markets possible.

As they do in Ghana and Venezuela? In fact, inflated monetary policy by governments is the #1 issue that disrupts markets and strips wealth from the citizens of a given country.

They provide a legal infrastructure and court systems to enforce the contracts that make markets possible. They provide educated workforces through public education, and those workers show up at their places of business after traveling on public roads, rails, or airways provided by government. Businesses that use the "free market" are protected by police and fire departments provided by government, and send their communications - from phone to fax to internet - over lines that follow public rights-of-way maintained and protected by government.

And, most important, the rules of the game of business are defined by government. Any sports fan can tell you that football, baseball, or hockey without rules and referees would be a mess. Similarly, business without rules won't work.

The idea that a stable society is beneficial to a market is true to the extent that intervention is minimalist. Phone, fax. and internet are all private and not provided by the government.

How could I vote for a president who would not stand up to these two?
Government Shutdown Hinges On Republicans Helping Flint | Huffington Post

"Not stand up to them?" Those are the two biggest push-overs ever elected to the offices they hold.

Paul Ryan’s Whole Career Was About Sticking It To The Poor And Elderly
He hasn’t succeeded, for the most part, but he’s cemented the GOP’s identity.

House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) has spent the better part of his political career trying to shred America’s social safety net, so that literally tens of millions of Americans would lose supports they use to get food, health care and pay their most basic bills.

Ryan’s one big victory was on taxes ― he was instrumental in writing and passing the bill that President Donald Trump signed late last year. It will dramatically reduce what the wealthiest Americans pay, realizing one of Ryan’s long-held dreams.

But so far, at least, Republicans haven’t privatized Medicare, repealed the Affordable Care Act, or transformed programs like food stamps into smaller, state-run initiatives. And while most Republicans still endorse these proposals, the public does not.

Ultimately, that could be Ryan’s true legacy: Tethering his party to an extreme, deeply conservative agenda that the public rejects, starting with the November midterm elections.

 

[sealybobo]

Perhaps the most striking element of Ryan’s proposal was its call to reinvent Medicare, the wildly popular program for the elderly that politicians attack at their own peril.

Ryan promised not to alter the program for people currently on it or within 10 years of eligibility. But he proposed to treat future beneficiaries differently, providing them with a voucher for private insurance rather than a guarantee of benefits. Over time, the voucher would lose value relative to health care costs, experts predicted, so that seniors would be increasingly responsible for their own medical bills.

After Ryan released a slightly revised version of the budget one year later, Robert Greenstein, president of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, called it “a remarkable document — one that, for most of the past half-century, would have been outside the bounds of mainstream discussion due to its extreme nature.”

If enacted, Greenstein warned, it would produce “the largest redistribution of income from the bottom to the top in modern U.S. history,”

Ryan insisted such redistribution would ultimately leave the poor better off, in part by improving the economy as a whole. But he also justified his agenda in moral terms, speaking frequently about “makers” (i.e., people who work and earn good incomes) and “takers” (i.e., lazy people who subsist on government assistance).

Paul Ryan's Whole Career Was About Sticking It To The Poor And Elderly | HuffPost

 

[sealybobo]

When Trump became president, Ryan finally had the opportunity he’d coveted for so long ― a chance to use his blueprint and transform public policy. On taxes he got his way, more or less. Although the final bill did not enact many of the changes he desired, it gave enormous new breaks to the very wealthiest Americans, while handing only a pittance to the middle class.

The new law’s corporate tax cut is permanent, while the individual tax cuts aren’t ― which means that the majority of Americans would actually end up paying more

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

So, what you are saying is that you believe that people should hold property in common, not individually. That all property rights are held by "the people" and not any individual.

You want property in the hands of the community, in a society that has not classes or distinctions, but everyone has equal property ownership, in a society that is harmonious, without envy or haves and have nots. From each according to his ability. To each according to his needs.

You are....



a....



COMMUNIST!!!

"Oh no. Communists don't exist. What dream world do you live in?"
---each and every last lying leftist on USMB

 

[sealybobo]

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

So, what you are saying is that you believe that people should hold property in common, not individually. That all property rights are held by "the people" and not any individual.

You want property in the hands of the community, in a society that has not classes or distinctions, but everyone has equal property ownership, in a society that is harmonious, without envy or haves and have nots. From each according to his ability. To each according to his needs.

You are....



a....



COMMUNIST!!!

"Oh no. Communists don't exist. What dream world do you live in?"
---each and every last lying leftist on USMB

So anyone who likes the Grand Canyon is a communist? I can't take you seriously.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

So anyone who likes the Grand Canyon is a communist? I can't take you seriously.

From your op:
"The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

"Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

"Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.

"I disagree."

What is the definition of a communist if not that?