Why do Christianity and Islam proselytise?

[Anguille]

Some Jews are similar to Mormons in that they allow that good non Jews will go to heaven. Especially if they turn the lights on for them on the sabbath. Or at least so I've heard.

My ethnic Jewish friend gets cornered regularly by proselytizing Jews in his neighborhood laundomat.

Some Mormons baptize posthumously. They take it a step further. Soul saving, I mean. Not dirty laundry.

 

[Patriot2009]

I disagree... there's also a certitude in their own absolute correctness without any sense that other people feel just as strongly about their own beliefs.

only they aren't bullies about it.

Not bullies about it? Kindly tell that the thousands of victims of Islamist extremists. Certainly, you can agree that Christians are absolutely tame by comparison, can't you?

Although I'm sure you are loathe to admit it, the vast majority of Christians go about their lives quietly observing the obligations of their faith without putting it in the faces of others. They don't even advertise thier faith by dressing up in special outfits or headwear.

I suspect that editec is closer to the truth on this point. And, I also suspect that your experience hasn’t really included nearly as many of the intense in-your-face Christians as you would have us believe…

That is usually just another of the lame excuses anti-Christians use to justify their attacks.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I disagree... there's also a certitude in their own absolute correctness without any sense that other people feel just as strongly about their own beliefs.

only they aren't bullies about it.

Not bullies about it? Kindly tell that the thousands of victims of Islamist extremists. Certainly, you can agree that Christians are absolutely tame by comparison, can't you?

Most, yes. But, there are Christian extremists also.....Fred Phelps and his church, as well as Ted Haggard and his Jesus Camp.

Although I'm sure you are loathe to admit it, the vast majority of Christians go about their lives quietly observing the obligations of their faith without putting it in the faces of others. They don't even advertise thier faith by dressing up in special outfits or headwear.

Really? Jews cover their heads, most Christian churches have the women wear hats, and as far as going about their lives quietly? Ever live in the Bible Belt? Seems like every Saturday you had someone beating on your door, inviting you to their church, and generally didn't take no for an answer, which is why I generally shut the door in their face. Answered the door naked on occasion just to be shocking.

I suspect that editec is closer to the truth on this point. And, I also suspect that your experience hasn’t really included nearly as many of the intense in-your-face Christians as you would have us believe…

Live in Tennessee, Florida, Arkansas or Texas, then tell me that there are no intense in your face Christians.

That is usually just another of the lame excuses anti-Christians use to justify their attacks.

Justification of attacks? What attack? Someone asked a question, and it is getting answered by lots of others from places away from where you are.

Why discount their experiences if you haven't had them yourself? There is much more to the world than what your narrow view allows you to see.

 

[Patriot2009]

ABikerSailor,
The last time I checked nobody from Mr. Phelps church or a member of Mr. Haggard’s church had flown a plane into a building or waged a war of attrition against an entire nation.

That’s not to say that there aren’t a very few violent extremists who call themselves a part of the Christian faith. But, they’re not the ones who come knocking on your door on a Saturday afternoon once or twice a year.

Having said that, I hasten to add that I happen to live in Arkansas and have done so for many years. I have lived in Tennessee and spent considerable time in Texas including a few visits to Amarillo. I was born and raised in Southern California and lived outside Chicago for ten years. I’ve traveled across the world to Europe, Northern Africa, and Central and South America, not to mention the majority of the Lower 48, Alaska and Hawaii. Suffice to say that your notion of who I am and where I’ve lived and been is a knee slapper.

I’ve lived in my present home here in Arkansas for 15 years and I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve had Christians or any other religious group knock on my door. I’ve never had them come to my door any place else I’ve lived. I didn’t enter into a relationship with my Lord Jesus Christ until only a few years ago. So the vast majority of my years (with the exception of a short involvement with the Mormon Church) were spent in the same ways that most of the lost do. So my experiences are pretty wide and my view not so narrow as you may imagine. In fact, as I’ve indicated, I happen to agree with some of the opinions posted in this thread.

I haven’t been posting here for very long. But, I get the definite feeling that your posts are mostly designed to shock rather than to explore the issues presented here in a serious way. One of the ways in which some folks accomplish such a goal is to engage in exaggeration and hyperbole. It appears that you may be one of those people.

Jews aren’t Christians, most American churches do not require the women to wear hats to services, nor even encourage it, attacks are not only physical or violent on nature, but, more often take the verbal form and if you really answered the door nude on occasion I suspect that you may have done so in a drunken or drug induced stupor. In any case, that would have been way too much information for my liking in any event.

If you want to discuss the issue at hand with me in a serious way, I welcome it. But, if you just want to rant, I would just as soon you ignore my posts and inflict your brand of imagination on somebody else.

 

[Patriot2009]

Some Jews are similar to Mormons in that they allow that good non Jews will go to heaven. Especially if they turn the lights on for them on the sabbath. Or at least so I've heard.

My ethnic Jewish friend gets cornered regularly by proselytizing Jews in his neighborhood laundomat.

Some Mormons baptize posthumously. They take it a step further. Soul saving, I mean. Not dirty laundry.

Anguille,

I’m making an assumption here that I’ll readily abandon if I’m mistaken. But, aren’t you comparing apples to oranges.

It seems to me that your friend is probably known by the neighbors who are proselytizing to him. In their view, they’re not trying to win over a convert in the way that I, as a Christian, might approach a stranger.

They’re trying to bring a prodigal back into the fold.

I may be taking a narrower view of how proselytizing should be defined than yours…

 

[Anguille]

Some Jews are similar to Mormons in that they allow that good non Jews will go to heaven. Especially if they turn the lights on for them on the sabbath. Or at least so I've heard.

My ethnic Jewish friend gets cornered regularly by proselytizing Jews in his neighborhood laundomat.

Some Mormons baptize posthumously. They take it a step further. Soul saving, I mean. Not dirty laundry.

Anguille,

I’m making an assumption here that I’ll readily abandon if I’m mistaken. But, aren’t you comparing apples to oranges.

It seems to me that your friend is probably known by the neighbors who are proselytizing to him. In their view, they’re not trying to win over a convert in the way that I, as a Christian, might approach a stranger.

They’re trying to bring a prodigal back into the fold.

I may be taking a narrower view of how proselytizing should be defined than yours…

No, they don't know him. He's new to the neighborhood and even new to the country, France. Even though he does look Jewish, they ask him first if he is Jewish and the first few times he responded,"Oui", hopeful to get to practice his French. Now despite his protestations to them that he is not Jewish, never ever went to synagogue either, his parents being atheist and wants rien à faire avec these people anymore, they still pester him when he goes to the laundromat.

I call that classic annoying proselytising.

 

[Patriot2009]

I suppose I would too.

 

[Patriot2009]

Anguille,

I apologize for going off topic, but isthere an English translation for your name or is it strictly French? There is a river here in Arkansas with a similar name...the L'Anguille River. It's a beautiful little stream that travels across Easteren Arkansas.

 

[Anguille]

Anguille,

I apologize for going off topic, but isthere an English translation for your name or is it strictly French? There is a river here in Arkansas with a similar name...the L'Anguille River. It's a beautiful little stream that travels across Easteren Arkansas.

It's French for "eel". I'm glad to know there is a stream named for me in Arkansas.

 

[ABikerSailor]

ABikerSailor,
The last time I checked nobody from Mr. Phelps church or a member of Mr. Haggard’s church had flown a plane into a building or waged a war of attrition against an entire nation.

What......did you just become a patriot this year douchebag? No, they haven't flown an airplane into a building (yet), but give 'em time. Waging a war of attrition? Did you see the movie "Jesus Camp"? The fucking thing was based on Islamic methods of preaching.

That’s not to say that there aren’t a very few violent extremists who call themselves a part of the Christian faith. But, they’re not the ones who come knocking on your door on a Saturday afternoon once or twice a year.

Wish it was only once or twice a year, that way I'd not mind so much. Shit....I've even been accosted while I was doing my walk around the park.

Having said that, I hasten to add that I happen to live in Arkansas and have done so for many years. I have lived in Tennessee and spent considerable time in Texas including a few visits to Amarillo. I was born and raised in Southern California and lived outside Chicago for ten years. I’ve traveled across the world to Europe, Northern Africa, and Central and South America, not to mention the majority of the Lower 48, Alaska and Hawaii. Suffice to say that your notion of who I am and where I’ve lived and been is a knee slapper.

Okay......I've been to 49 states (only missing Alaska), and 26 different countries. Your point? If you are as well traveled as you say you are, then I'd also be willing to bet that you don't notice much around you that isn't in English, or has some kind of American influence. Why do I say that? Because you sound like a pinhead. Just because a group hasn't done a violent act yet, does NOT mean that they won't eventually. Matter of fact, it only took Islam 30 years or so to go from decent religion to rabid fanatics. Happened during the '70's.

I’ve lived in my present home here in Arkansas for 15 years and I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve had Christians or any other religious group knock on my door. I’ve never had them come to my door any place else I’ve lived. I didn’t enter into a relationship with my Lord Jesus Christ until only a few years ago. So the vast majority of my years (with the exception of a short involvement with the Mormon Church) were spent in the same ways that most of the lost do. So my experiences are pretty wide and my view not so narrow as you may imagine. In fact, as I’ve indicated, I happen to agree with some of the opinions posted in this thread.

Like I said......lucky you, whoop de fucking doo. Damn near every place I've lived at in those states I listed (Navy ran me all over the place) have come to my door on the average of 2 - 3 times per month. What? Do they think that just because I'm in the military I need to be saved? Christianity and Catholic school kinda made me gun shy of them, as the most serious abuse of my childhood happened at the hands of the "religious ones". Ever been beaten with a bullwhip at age 7 by a 40 year old man? I have......and he was a good Catholic. But......what I did do, was become a Taoist while on active duty, and found that was a really good compass to navigate Christianity with. Happened in '96. And, I've also been looking into Judaism. Now, with your beautiful rose colored glasses, I'm willing to bet that you don't notice the door to door people, as you're probably looking at them and asking what the sermon is going to be that Sunday.

I haven’t been posting here for very long. But, I get the definite feeling that your posts are mostly designed to shock rather than to explore the issues presented here in a serious way. One of the ways in which some folks accomplish such a goal is to engage in exaggeration and hyperbole. It appears that you may be one of those people.

Haven't been here long eh? It shows with that stupid statement that you just wrote. If you were to check in other threads, you would see that I'm pretty polite, but, if you're stupid, I'm gonna disagree with you. Get nasty? I start to tear you apart.

Jews aren’t Christians, most American churches do not require the women to wear hats to services, nor even encourage it, attacks are not only physical or violent on nature, but, more often take the verbal form and if you really answered the door nude on occasion I suspect that you may have done so in a drunken or drug induced stupor. In any case, that would have been way too much information for my liking in any event.

I know Jews aren't Christians dipshit. What are you, full blown retarded? And....most American churches up until recently DID require women to wear hats in church. Ever hear of the Pilgrims? They were the ones that founded this country. And yeah.....I DID answer the door naked as well as sober (and you can't do drugs in the military asshole), because that particular person had already been to my door 3 times that week, and I was trying to have relations with my significant other. Too much info for your liking? Pussy.

If you want to discuss the issue at hand with me in a serious way, I welcome it. But, if you just want to rant, I would just as soon you ignore my posts and inflict your brand of imagination on somebody else.

Tell ya what motherfucker.......you put ME on ignore if you don't wanna hear me.

I don't ignore others, because then they can start putting out shitty info, like your brain damaged ass seems to be doing.

Try again douchebag.

 

[Sunni Man]

ABikerSailor

It's obvious by your current posts that you need to contact a mental health professional and have your med prescription increased to a higher dosage

 

[ABikerSailor]

You're one to talk Sunnidiot.

How's the therapy attacks going here on the 'boards by the way? Are you still psychoanalyzing people without their permission?

 

[N4mddissent]

I think the traditional core of the difference in levels of prosyletizing comes from the historic roots of Judaism. Like many ancient mythologies, Judaism was as much an ethnic identity as a religious identity and to a degree it still is today. The ethnicity and religion were inseparable. Although it may be glossed over in modern interpretation, the original designation of the "chosen people" of the "one true god" is in essence discriminatory and a supremacist ideology from the ancient world validated by religious ideology. This is why "thou shalt not murder" is acceptable along with commands to commit genocide and rape- those people not identified as ethnically Jewish were less-than-human.

However, chrisitianity, specifically with is acceptance of "gentiles" or non-ethnically jewish people, tended to emphasize the religious ideology as having importance without regard to ethnic identity. Islam was similarly an emphasis more on the dogma than ethnicity.

Whatever the interpretations or status currently is, the tradition of Judaism as an ethnic identity as well as religious identity makes prosyletizing nonsensical. For example if someone had a religious identity that was also tied to identity as, say, a native Hawaiian. Why would they prosyletize to tourists? While one may convert and accept religious views, one cannot convert their ethnicity.

 

[Eightball]

This question occurred to me in this thread - http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/68247-the-truth-about-judaism.html - but I didn't want to throw it off topic.

I've been given several good reasons why Judaism doesn't proselytise. Fisty in that thread made the point that it wasn't the Abrahamic nature of Judaism (which it shares with Christianity and Islam) which has anything to do one way or the other with proselytising. But Christianity and Islam have proselytising as major parts of their doctrines. Why is that?

Jesus set the example, and entrusted 12 men with starting the work of evangelizing or bringing the "Good News" to both Jew and gentile.
From the N.T. book of Matthew

The First Disciples
18(U)Now as Jesus was walking by (V)the Sea of Galilee, He saw two brothers, (W)Simon who was called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen.

19And He said to them, "Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men."

Merriam Webster

Proselytize

1 : to induce someone to convert to one's faith
2 : to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause
transitive verb
: to recruit or convert especially to a new faith, institution, or cause

Evangelize

1 : to preach the gospel to
2 : to convert to Christianity
intransitive verb
: to preach the gospel

20Immediately they left their nets and followed Him.

21Going on from there He saw two other brothers, (X)James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in the boat with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and He called them.

22Immediately they left the boat and their father, and followed Him

No where in the bible does Jesus say, "Do anything you can think of to get them to accept Me as their Lord and Saviour. If you have to threaten them, with life and limb, take a baseball bat, sword, gun, whatever............All must be forced to believe!"

It is by the Christ-abiding Christian's life that he/she(Christians) our "salt and light" to a "tasteless and dark" world wrapped up in itself and sin.

 

[Patriot2009]

This question occurred to me in this thread - http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/68247-the-truth-about-judaism.html - but I didn't want to throw it off topic.

I've been given several good reasons why Judaism doesn't proselytise. Fisty in that thread made the point that it wasn't the Abrahamic nature of Judaism (which it shares with Christianity and Islam) which has anything to do one way or the other with proselytising. But Christianity and Islam have proselytising as major parts of their doctrines. Why is that?

Jesus set the example, and entrusted 12 men with starting the work of evangelizing or bringing the "Good News" to both Jew and gentile.
From the N.T. book of Matthew

The First Disciples
18(U)Now as Jesus was walking by (V)the Sea of Galilee, He saw two brothers, (W)Simon who was called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen.

19And He said to them, "Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men."

Merriam Webster

Proselytize

1 : to induce someone to convert to one's faith
2 : to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause
transitive verb
: to recruit or convert especially to a new faith, institution, or cause

Evangelize

1 : to preach the gospel to
2 : to convert to Christianity
intransitive verb
: to preach the gospel

20Immediately they left their nets and followed Him.

21Going on from there He saw two other brothers, (X)James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in the boat with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and He called them.

22Immediately they left the boat and their father, and followed Him

No where in the bible does Jesus say, "Do anything you can think of to get them to accept Me as their Lord and Saviour. If you have to threaten them, with life and limb, take a baseball bat, sword, gun, whatever............All must be forced to believe!"

It is by the Christ-abiding Christian's life that he/she(Christians) our "salt and light" to a "tasteless and dark" world wrapped up in itself and sin.

The New King James translation of the Bible states it thusly:

"13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.
14 “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven."

 

[Eightball]

This question occurred to me in this thread - http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/68247-the-truth-about-judaism.html - but I didn't want to throw it off topic.

I've been given several good reasons why Judaism doesn't proselytise. Fisty in that thread made the point that it wasn't the Abrahamic nature of Judaism (which it shares with Christianity and Islam) which has anything to do one way or the other with proselytising. But Christianity and Islam have proselytising as major parts of their doctrines. Why is that?

Jesus set the example, and entrusted 12 men with starting the work of evangelizing or bringing the "Good News" to both Jew and gentile.
From the N.T. book of Matthew

The First Disciples
18(U)Now as Jesus was walking by (V)the Sea of Galilee, He saw two brothers, (W)Simon who was called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen.

19And He said to them, "Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men."



20Immediately they left their nets and followed Him.

21Going on from there He saw two other brothers, (X)James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in the boat with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and He called them.

22Immediately they left the boat and their father, and followed Him

No where in the bible does Jesus say, "Do anything you can think of to get them to accept Me as their Lord and Saviour. If you have to threaten them, with life and limb, take a baseball bat, sword, gun, whatever............All must be forced to believe!"

It is by the Christ-abiding Christian's life that he/she(Christians) our "salt and light" to a "tasteless and dark" world wrapped up in itself and sin.

The New King James translation of the Bible states it thusly:

"13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.
14 “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven."

Makes sense to me. Also the verse doesn't play around with fuzzy logic. It's very clear and explanatory.

I think the word, "proselytize" has gotten a bad rap, as in past history, many religious movements or sects, didn't follow what Christ clearly explained in verse 16.

No Christian filled with the love, and grace of God, would yield a baseball bat or threaten a person into accepting their faith.

We can talk about the Crusaders till we turn blue, but to this day, I say without a doubt in my mind, that what these European crusaders did in the name of Christ, was not biblical, nor were they showing evidential salvation through Christ in their lives as they killed both Jews and Muslims in their very unholy war.

Most of these crusaders were bible ignorant, and just went with what their very misguided and evil church leaders told them was Christian doctrine.

Thank God for Guttenberg and the printing press, as the Word of God got into the hands of more and more non Priests and so-called self-appointed religious leaders.

Christians can do some pretty bad things in the so-called name of Christ, when they proceed forward without biblical knowledge that is set deep in their souls. Head knowledge doesn't cut it. Along with head knowledge must be heart-knowledge of the scriptures and how they reveal the true attributes of our Creator.

Paul in Romans chapter 12, verses 1-3 told Christians to "renew their minds" with God's Word. Without bible knowledge, ghastly things can happen and be done in God's name.

Sadly, skeptics, agnostics, and the rare birds called atheists, love to use the Crusades as a prime example of why they won't accept the tenent of Christianity in anyway. True Christians know that without the indwelling Spirit of Christ(Holy Spirit), that people will do just what they've done for eons; namely hurt the name of God and Christ with ill done deeds, and compulsive, unthinking actions.

There was no middle ground with Christ. He said people were either in His sheep fold, or they were children of the devil. Folks that's His words not mine. Take it up with Him, not me.

 

[TAS]

Hi Diuretic
How are you? Remember me? I joined the board a while back but because of time constraints I was not able to post much. Hopefully in the future I would be able to participate more.

Now back to your question.
As Sunni Man said, Islam do ask others to join the religion. It is called Da'wah or "Invitation".

We Muslims have the responsibility and the obligation to inform non-Muslims about the religion of Islam. This is because we believe that Islam is the last true religion and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the last messenger and prophet to be sent to humanity.
That doesn't mean forcing others to convert but by just informing them about the religion of Islam. Then it's up to them to believe in it or not. Our responsibility towards non Muslims ends there.

 

[Diuretic]

Hello TAS welcome back

And thank you for that explanation, it definitely clarifies some questions.

 

[TAS]

You are welcome

 

[ABikerSailor]

Jesus set the example, and entrusted 12 men with starting the work of evangelizing or bringing the "Good News" to both Jew and gentile.
From the N.T. book of Matthew


No where in the bible does Jesus say, "Do anything you can think of to get them to accept Me as their Lord and Saviour. If you have to threaten them, with life and limb, take a baseball bat, sword, gun, whatever............All must be forced to believe!"

It is by the Christ-abiding Christian's life that he/she(Christians) our "salt and light" to a "tasteless and dark" world wrapped up in itself and sin.

The New King James translation of the Bible states it thusly:

"13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.
14 “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven."

Makes sense to me. Also the verse doesn't play around with fuzzy logic. It's very clear and explanatory.

I think the word, "proselytize" has gotten a bad rap, as in past history, many religious movements or sects, didn't follow what Christ clearly explained in verse 16.

No Christian filled with the love, and grace of God, would yield a baseball bat or threaten a person into accepting their faith.

We can talk about the Crusaders till we turn blue, but to this day, I say without a doubt in my mind, that what these European crusaders did in the name of Christ, was not biblical, nor were they showing evidential salvation through Christ in their lives as they killed both Jews and Muslims in their very unholy war.

Most of these crusaders were bible ignorant, and just went with what their very misguided and evil church leaders told them was Christian doctrine.

Thank God for Guttenberg and the printing press, as the Word of God got into the hands of more and more non Priests and so-called self-appointed religious leaders.

Christians can do some pretty bad things in the so-called name of Christ, when they proceed forward without biblical knowledge that is set deep in their souls. Head knowledge doesn't cut it. Along with head knowledge must be heart-knowledge of the scriptures and how they reveal the true attributes of our Creator.

Paul in Romans chapter 12, verses 1-3 told Christians to "renew their minds" with God's Word. Without bible knowledge, ghastly things can happen and be done in God's name.

Sadly, skeptics, agnostics, and the rare birds called atheists, love to use the Crusades as a prime example of why they won't accept the tenent of Christianity in anyway. True Christians know that without the indwelling Spirit of Christ(Holy Spirit), that people will do just what they've done for eons; namely hurt the name of God and Christ with ill done deeds, and compulsive, unthinking actions.

There was no middle ground with Christ. He said people were either in His sheep fold, or they were children of the devil. Folks that's His words not mine. Take it up with Him, not me.

Good stuff 8ball.

You know.......I was talking to my room mate yesterday, and we both came up with the following thought.........

Beware of anyone who tells you that their religion is the only "right" one, as well as those that tell you that "they" can lead you to God.

Nobody has to be led......we are all children of Him. Nobody has only "one way" to God, as there are a great deal many similarities between all religions (if you're willing to look for them).

Tao and Judaism are very similar by the way.

But......any person, or any religion, that says they have the only "true" connection to God? Run. Fast. Because it has been said in the Bible many times that God's nature is too large to be contained in one person, with the exception of Yeshua, so that would mean this evangelical idiot (of whichever faith) is actually trying to replace Yeshua, as He said "nobody comes to the Father except by Me", when speaking of any non Jews.