Why do Christianity and Islam proselytise?

[Diuretic]

Again, interesting and informing. I think it's almost human nature to went to spread the good word, whatever it might be. The reference to Hellenistic times is interesting. I wasn't aware of Judaism being active in ancient Greece (if I have that right). Paul and the Corinthians I remember and of course Christianity itself has much ancient Greek influence (I assume this was before Constantine) but I didn't know about Judaism and Hellenism.

Jews avoided proselytism because of the later dominance of Christianity and Islam. That makes sense, if you're outnumbered and tolerated (but put a foot wrong and you get persecuted) then it would pay to keep to your own community and not try to sign up members of the dominant religion in a given community.

But I'm still thinking back to Judaism before Christianity (and later Islam). Judaism apparently had a proselytising nature but I wonder if that was just because there was an open and humane acceptance of pagans who wanted to get away from their pantheistic religions. I mean, I know the Judaic God was a bit of a task master but put Him up against some of those other pagan gods and I reckon it's no contest. From fear of the gods to a sort of benign, though maybe awesome (in its true sense) paternalism in the Judaic God to a loving Christian God (thought not without certain requirements) seems to be almost a metaphor for the evolution of humans.

Okay, now I'm getting right out in left field.

 

[AllieBaba]

From Matthew:

"Follow me and I will teach you to catch men!"
"Men do not light a lamp and put it under a bucket. They put it on a lamp-stand and it gives light for everybody in the house."

I thought it was "follow Me and I will MAKE YOU FISHERS OF MEN".

(And she says I get the Bible quotes wrong).

It depends on the version of the bible you use, obviously.

 

[AllieBaba]

Again, interesting and informing. I think it's almost human nature to went to spread the good word, whatever it might be. The reference to Hellenistic times is interesting. I wasn't aware of Judaism being active in ancient Greece (if I have that right). Paul and the Corinthians I remember and of course Christianity itself has much ancient Greek influence (I assume this was before Constantine) but I didn't know about Judaism and Hellenism.

Jews avoided proselytism because of the later dominance of Christianity and Islam. That makes sense, if you're outnumbered and tolerated (but put a foot wrong and you get persecuted) then it would pay to keep to your own community and not try to sign up members of the dominant religion in a given community.

But I'm still thinking back to Judaism before Christianity (and later Islam). Judaism apparently had a proselytising nature but I wonder if that was just because there was an open and humane acceptance of pagans who wanted to get away from their pantheistic religions. I mean, I know the Judaic God was a bit of a task master but put Him up against some of those other pagan gods and I reckon it's no contest. From fear of the gods to a sort of benign, though maybe awesome (in its true sense) paternalism in the Judaic God to a loving Christian God (thought not without certain requirements) seems to be almost a metaphor for the evolution of humans.

Okay, now I'm getting right out in left field.

Yes, you are.

 

[Diuretic]

Again, interesting and informing. I think it's almost human nature to went to spread the good word, whatever it might be. The reference to Hellenistic times is interesting. I wasn't aware of Judaism being active in ancient Greece (if I have that right). Paul and the Corinthians I remember and of course Christianity itself has much ancient Greek influence (I assume this was before Constantine) but I didn't know about Judaism and Hellenism.

Jews avoided proselytism because of the later dominance of Christianity and Islam. That makes sense, if you're outnumbered and tolerated (but put a foot wrong and you get persecuted) then it would pay to keep to your own community and not try to sign up members of the dominant religion in a given community.

But I'm still thinking back to Judaism before Christianity (and later Islam). Judaism apparently had a proselytising nature but I wonder if that was just because there was an open and humane acceptance of pagans who wanted to get away from their pantheistic religions. I mean, I know the Judaic God was a bit of a task master but put Him up against some of those other pagan gods and I reckon it's no contest. From fear of the gods to a sort of benign, though maybe awesome (in its true sense) paternalism in the Judaic God to a loving Christian God (thought not without certain requirements) seems to be almost a metaphor for the evolution of humans.

Okay, now I'm getting right out in left field.

Yes, you are.

And I can see that little white ball dropping into my outstretched glove...sometimes you just have to be out there

 

[AllieBaba]

Sometimes that little white ball is just a big gob of your own drool running off your chin.

 

[Diuretic]

Sometimes that little white ball is just a big gob of your own drool running off your chin.

I always know when I'm drooling Allie - usually on a long distance flight when I get woken up for breakfast

 

[editec]

Why do Christianity and Islam proselytise?

Let us think about ideas and ideologies as if they were each unique species of organisms.

These organizisms (ideaologies) can be benign, they can be pathogenic, or they can be beneficial to their hosts.

But the most successful organisms are those which infect and develop a symbiotic relationship to the host.

And even among the pathogenic organisms the truly successful ones might sicken but they do not kill their hosts. (What is a sneeze?_

The hosts of idologies and theologies are people.

Those organization can (and often do in nature) make their hosts change behaviors in order to transfer from an infected host to a non infected host.

Now each idea that thrives (much like each organism which inhabits us) has to have some means to get from host to host.

Prosolytizing is one of those means of transference.

It's a metaphor, I know.

But it's a damned good one.

 

[dilloduck]

Okay, get the Christian reason for proselytising, it's in the Gospels. I seem to remember also one of the Gospels mentioning that Jesus told Simon Peter he was a "fisher of men" (sic) which indicates the missionary role. But Judaism, of which Jesus was a member, apparently wasn't into proselytising (I note the information from jillian and Fisty that Jews, due to persecution that goes back even before Jesus, don't try and sign people up).

But why would Jesus exhort Simon Peter and the Apostles to get out there and sign up as many recruits as they could get? Look I understand that if someone believes that they've got something that can save people's souls that....wait a minute, wait a minute.

In the other thread there was a post by jillian about the nature of the soul in Judaism. I remember thinking it was interesting but very complex indeed.

It's the theology isn't it? Christianty has a different view of people and their spiritual being than does Judaism. Okay I know, blindingly obvious, perhaps to you but I had to think about it before I could see it in front of me.

How about Islam? Is it just about the numbers or is there some sort of exhortation by Allah that recruits are signed up? I mean I suppose it could have been the Prophet who urged it but surely he wouldn't have done so without the authority of Allah whose word is in the Qu'ran?

And just in case anyone thinks that D is being a cranky git, have no fear, this is genuine inquiry. I try not to play fast and loose with people's spiritual beliefs (unless they're trying to choke me with them in which case I fight back) which hasn't happened to me here.

I believe Jews were told to "go forth and multiply" as a means of expanding the ideaology. Where as Christians were encouraged to "spread the good news".

 

[FistyTheBadger]

Okay, get the Christian reason for proselytising, it's in the Gospels. I seem to remember also one of the Gospels mentioning that Jesus told Simon Peter he was a "fisher of men" (sic) which indicates the missionary role. But Judaism, of which Jesus was a member, apparently wasn't into proselytising (I note the information from jillian and Fisty that Jews, due to persecution that goes back even before Jesus, don't try and sign people up).

But why would Jesus exhort Simon Peter and the Apostles to get out there and sign up as many recruits as they could get? Look I understand that if someone believes that they've got something that can save people's souls that....wait a minute, wait a minute.

In the other thread there was a post by jillian about the nature of the soul in Judaism. I remember thinking it was interesting but very complex indeed.

It's the theology isn't it? Christianty has a different view of people and their spiritual being than does Judaism. Okay I know, blindingly obvious, perhaps to you but I had to think about it before I could see it in front of me.

How about Islam? Is it just about the numbers or is there some sort of exhortation by Allah that recruits are signed up? I mean I suppose it could have been the Prophet who urged it but surely he wouldn't have done so without the authority of Allah whose word is in the Qu'ran?

And just in case anyone thinks that D is being a cranky git, have no fear, this is genuine inquiry. I try not to play fast and loose with people's spiritual beliefs (unless they're trying to choke me with them in which case I fight back) which hasn't happened to me here.

I believe Jews were told to "go forth and multiply" as a means of expanding the ideaology. Where as Christians were encouraged to "spread the good news".

No. Jews were told to "go forth and multiply" as a means to have a lot of sex and have a lot of kids.

 

[dilloduck]

Okay, get the Christian reason for proselytising, it's in the Gospels. I seem to remember also one of the Gospels mentioning that Jesus told Simon Peter he was a "fisher of men" (sic) which indicates the missionary role. But Judaism, of which Jesus was a member, apparently wasn't into proselytising (I note the information from jillian and Fisty that Jews, due to persecution that goes back even before Jesus, don't try and sign people up).

But why would Jesus exhort Simon Peter and the Apostles to get out there and sign up as many recruits as they could get? Look I understand that if someone believes that they've got something that can save people's souls that....wait a minute, wait a minute.

In the other thread there was a post by jillian about the nature of the soul in Judaism. I remember thinking it was interesting but very complex indeed.

It's the theology isn't it? Christianty has a different view of people and their spiritual being than does Judaism. Okay I know, blindingly obvious, perhaps to you but I had to think about it before I could see it in front of me.

How about Islam? Is it just about the numbers or is there some sort of exhortation by Allah that recruits are signed up? I mean I suppose it could have been the Prophet who urged it but surely he wouldn't have done so without the authority of Allah whose word is in the Qu'ran?

And just in case anyone thinks that D is being a cranky git, have no fear, this is genuine inquiry. I try not to play fast and loose with people's spiritual beliefs (unless they're trying to choke me with them in which case I fight back) which hasn't happened to me here.

I believe Jews were told to "go forth and multiply" as a means of expanding the ideaology. Where as Christians were encouraged to "spread the good news".

No. Jews were told to "go forth and multiply" as a means to have a lot of sex and have a lot of kids.

and is not every kid of a jew also a jew?. Isn't the whole idea here to increase the amount of people who believe as God commanded you to believe ?

 

[FistyTheBadger]

I believe Jews were told to "go forth and multiply" as a means of expanding the ideaology. Where as Christians were encouraged to "spread the good news".

No. Jews were told to "go forth and multiply" as a means to have a lot of sex and have a lot of kids.

and is not every kid of a jew also a jew?. Isn't the whole idea here to increase the amount of people who believe as God commanded you to believe ?

No through the same means as Christianity. They mean different things.

 

[dilloduck]

No. Jews were told to "go forth and multiply" as a means to have a lot of sex and have a lot of kids.

and is not every kid of a jew also a jew?. Isn't the whole idea here to increase the amount of people who believe as God commanded you to believe ?

No through the same means as Christianity. They mean different things.

Right----different means to the same end.

 

[FistyTheBadger]

and is not every kid of a jew also a jew?. Isn't the whole idea here to increase the amount of people who believe as God commanded you to believe ?

No through the same means as Christianity. They mean different things.

Right----different means to the same end.

How does leaving other people alone produce the same result as not leaving other people alone?

 

[dilloduck]

No through the same means as Christianity. They mean different things.

Right----different means to the same end.

How does leaving other people alone produce the same result as not leaving other people alone?

It doesn't.

There are a lot less Jews because they rely on giving birth rather than speading the word.

 

[Sunni Man]

Right----different means to the same end.

How does leaving other people alone produce the same result as not leaving other people alone?

There are a lot less Jews because they rely on giving birth rather than speading the word.

Another reason Judiasm has been slow to grow.

It that Jews for centuries lived in host countries and intermarried with the people of that country.

Many times abandoning Judiasm and converting to the religion of their spouse.

Thus their children were not Jewish and didn't pass down the religion.

 

[dilloduck]

How does leaving other people alone produce the same result as not leaving other people alone?

There are a lot less Jews because they rely on giving birth rather than speading the word.

Another reason Judiasm has been slow to grow.

It that Jews for centuries lived in host countries and intermarried with the people of that country.

Many times abandoning Judiasm and converting to the religion of their spouse.

Thus their children were not Jewish and didn't pass down the religion.

There are PLENTY of Jews by birth--everyone born to a Jew is a Jew. ( accroding to Jews anyway) They all are not practicing Jews however.

 

[FistyTheBadger]

There are a lot less Jews because they rely on giving birth rather than speading the word.

Another reason Judiasm has been slow to grow.

It that Jews for centuries lived in host countries and intermarried with the people of that country.

Many times abandoning Judiasm and converting to the religion of their spouse.

Thus their children were not Jewish and didn't pass down the religion.

There are PLENTY of Jews by birth--everyone born to a Jew is a Jew. ( accroding to Jews anyway) They all are not practicing Jews however.

I believe that if your father is Jewish, you are Jewish.

 

[Sunni Man]

Another reason Judiasm has been slow to grow.

It that Jews for centuries lived in host countries and intermarried with the people of that country.

Many times abandoning Judiasm and converting to the religion of their spouse.

Thus their children were not Jewish and didn't pass down the religion.

There are PLENTY of Jews by birth--everyone born to a Jew is a Jew. ( accroding to Jews anyway) They all are not practicing Jews however.

I believe that if your father is Jewish, you are Jewish.

No, it's the exact opposite.

If your Mother is Jewish, then you are Jewish

 

[Care4all]

Another reason Judiasm has been slow to grow.

It that Jews for centuries lived in host countries and intermarried with the people of that country.

Many times abandoning Judiasm and converting to the religion of their spouse.

Thus their children were not Jewish and didn't pass down the religion.

There are PLENTY of Jews by birth--everyone born to a Jew is a Jew. ( accroding to Jews anyway) They all are not practicing Jews however.

I believe that if your father is Jewish, you are Jewish.

i thought it was the opposite.....if your mother is jewish, you are jewish....but i don't know why i'm thinking this way...? let me google...

 

[FistyTheBadger]

There are PLENTY of Jews by birth--everyone born to a Jew is a Jew. ( accroding to Jews anyway) They all are not practicing Jews however.

I believe that if your father is Jewish, you are Jewish.

No, it's the exact opposite.

If your Mother is Jewish, then you are Jewish

I remember it being the opposite of Christianity.