Why can't evolution be part of god's plan?

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

can you show me what specific bible passage you take that notion from?

Why does it have to come from the bible? I'm not a catholic or christian.

uh... so we are just tossing opinions out now?



yes, given that the bible is supposed to be the inspired word of god I'd say that such assertions and assumptions should have a bit of a foundation in evidence deeper than something you came up with while on the shitter last night.

I'm a Jewish Buddhist, sorry bro .

 

[Si modo]

So the original question was: Why can't evolution be part of god's plan?

So I asked a question: Do those that believe in the supernatural ever ask themselves why scientist don't waste their time defending evolution, geology, paleontology, astronomy and other supported sciences from attacks by the magical creationists?

The very next post was: No - and then a bunch of Bible quotes.

It may not have been directed at my post, but I thought it was very funny.

The difference between scientists and American Christians. Scientists are "curious". American Christians accept and go to war.

It's cute when those who play at being scientists post about what they think scientists are and invariably shoot themselves in the foot with their own ignorance about science and logic. And, they don't even realize it; that's the cutest part.

profound and insightful input!





back atch, dogma junkie

What's a 'dogma junkie', only if it's relevant to the topic, that is?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Of course God could have used evolution, and in my opinion, probably did, and anyone who thinks the issue a salvation problem does not believe the Word of God. Let's move on.

 

[Shogun]

Evolution is the cornerstone of creationism. God created all life with the intention that it would evolve over time.

can you show me what specific bible passage you take that notion from?

Just the use of the word FORMED...it was NOT instantaneous, he did not twinkle his nose and walah! everything is as it is today with all of us here...

genesis specifically gives STAGES in the formation of the galaxy and the life on earth....we were FORMED....in the creation story of genesis 1.

your interpretation may be such... lord fucking knows how well interpretations have worked out in the past.


"formed" does not imply a series of changes. It does not imply an evolved process. And, it sure as hell doesn't imply anything about time. I love it when people try to read deeper into buzzwords that don't necessarily mean anything more profound than "it was a bunch of myth loving human beings who fabricated this shit from thin air".

 

[Care4all]

Giving the planet of Uranus as an example, ONE DAY is 44years of our time.

Uranus....oh the jokes.

What does the Starship Enterprise and Toilet Paper have in common?

They both circle ur anus looking for clingons.

I remember that one from a couple of decades ago!

 

[Shogun]

Why does it have to come from the bible? I'm not a catholic or christian.

uh... so we are just tossing opinions out now?



yes, given that the bible is supposed to be the inspired word of god I'd say that such assertions and assumptions should have a bit of a foundation in evidence deeper than something you came up with while on the shitter last night.

I'm a Jewish Buddhist, sorry bro .

that is neither here nor there. You made as assertion about gods will and I'd like to see if you can provide evidence for such outside of admitting that it is nothing more than your personal opinion.

 

[Shogun]

It's cute when those who play at being scientists post about what they think scientists are and invariably shoot themselves in the foot with their own ignorance about science and logic. And, they don't even realize it; that's the cutest part.

profound and insightful input!





back atch, dogma junkie

What's a 'dogma junkie', only if it's relevant to the topic, that is?

Is this question supposed to remind me of how an alcoholic will often be the last person to comprehend that he has a drinking problem?

 

[Care4all]

can you show me what specific bible passage you take that notion from?

Just the use of the word FORMED...it was NOT instantaneous, he did not twinkle his nose and walah! everything is as it is today with all of us here...

genesis specifically gives STAGES in the formation of the galaxy and the life on earth....we were FORMED....in the creation story of genesis 1.

your interpretation may be such... lord fucking knows how well interpretations have worked out in the past.


"formed" does not imply a series of changes. It does not imply an evolved process. And, it sure as hell doesn't imply anything about time. I love it when people try to read deeper into buzzwords that don't necessarily mean anything more profound than "it was a bunch of myth loving human beings who fabricated this shit from thin air".

but the stages do...the days and the progression of these stages, are the same stages although simplified, that science is proving now with evolution...yet 5000 years ago, this was writen down by people that should not have known or understood such....


There would have been DAY 1 and all was formed instantaneously...from the planets and stars and vegetation to fish to birds to animals to us, would have all been recorded as the FIRST DAY, Day 1...but it WAS NOT SHOGUN...it was NOT described as such...it was shown as a PROGRESSION of things....evolution, before the word evolution was even created.

 

[Si modo]

profound and insightful input!





back atch, dogma junkie

What's a 'dogma junkie', only if it's relevant to the topic, that is?

Is this question supposed to remind me of how an alcoholic will often be the last person to comprehend that he has a drinking problem?

Do you have anything of significance or relevance to add to the debate? You haven't show that ability, so I'm wondering.

 

[Shogun]

Just the use of the word FORMED...it was NOT instantaneous, he did not twinkle his nose and walah! everything is as it is today with all of us here...

genesis specifically gives STAGES in the formation of the galaxy and the life on earth....we were FORMED....in the creation story of genesis 1.

your interpretation may be such... lord fucking knows how well interpretations have worked out in the past.


"formed" does not imply a series of changes. It does not imply an evolved process. And, it sure as hell doesn't imply anything about time. I love it when people try to read deeper into buzzwords that don't necessarily mean anything more profound than "it was a bunch of myth loving human beings who fabricated this shit from thin air".

but the stages do...the days and the progression of these stages, are the same stages although simplified, that science is proving now with evolution...yet 5000 years ago, this was writen down by people that should not have known or understood such....


There would have been DAY 1 and all was formed instantaneously...from the planets and stars and vegetation to fish to birds to animals to us, would have all been recorded as the FIRST DAY, Day 1...but it WAS NOT SHOGUN...it was NOT described as such...it was shown as a PROGRESSION of things....evolution, before the word evolution was even created.

the days and the progression of these stages, are the same stages although simplified, that science is proving now with evolution...yet 5000 years ago


see, but that is a bunch of interpretive horse shit. There was no firmament without a SUNS gravity to hold it in orbit. That the origin of the bible specifically mentions an earth BEFORE the creation of light. Which, again, is hogwash. YOU might try to force YOUR beliefs into the shape of modern science but...


and, again, the word "FORMED" doesn't mean anything in relation to TIME or PROGRESSION. Indeed, that they are called DAYS should tell you who, EXACTLY, fabricated that myth.

 

[Missourian]

no.

you are taking 1 part out of the passage trying to make it, what it is not missourian!

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

AGAIN this passage is about the END of the Bombardment period, where the planets in the universe were no longer HAYWIRE, all of our planets and stars FINALLY became firmament in the heavens, they were AFFIXED in to the positions the planets are basically, in today....this was not the case in our galaxy's beginnings, it was downright crazy madness with no planet in their positions of today....

this passage says that in stage(day) 4 of our creation, God affixed the planets, the sun, and the moon and the stars to where they are today...IF THIS HAD NOT HAPPENED, there would be no life on earth, as we know it, with 24 hour days and our moderate climate of today, that can sustain life.

the sun already existed on day 1 or there would be no light in the galaxy...there would be no galaxy period, without the sun...thus LIGHT was there in stage(day) 1 of creation...

God created the FIRMAMENT of the sun and moon's and star's light on the 4th stage/day....

you are just not reading it right or understanding what is being pointed out in this passage imo.

watch The Universe on history channel...it has been covering our beginnings and how we have progressed and stage or day 4, is precisely what happened....the planets became affixed in the sky and we got our 24 hour days, with sun and moon and stars where they are positioned with today's tilt in this firmament of the heavens.

care

Everything you quoted here occurred on the fourth day...God made the sun on the fourth day, there is no arguing that. It is direct from the text.

So therefore day 1-3 could not have been days the way we think of them...as those kind of days did not yet exist.

NOPE, where did the light come from on the FIRST DAY if the sun were not the light in the galaxy that earth received?

God created the sun and the moon and the stars, as with all in the universe, but it was not until stage 4 or day 4, before the sun and our new moon and the stars we SET IN THE FIRMAMENT of the heavens, so that WE could utilize them for days and seasons and years....

Before this time period, there was NO WAY to do this...the planets and stars were HAYWIRE....our galaxy, finally settled down, and our moon had finally formed with the distance similar to today, with it's gravitational pull keeping us set in the position to the sun....without our moon firmed up as it is today, we would be in deep trouble...on the "life" aspect....nothing controlling our tides and they would be coming in like tidal waves, only for 100 miles inland...

Again, the Sun was already created or there would NOT have been LIGHT on the first day, so what He is talking about creating was the firmament of the of the sun and stars and planets that he created in the firmament of the heavens...we had day and we had night with 2 lights, that were AFFIXED and not haywire, so that we could PLAN the planting of crops and travel at a later date...this IS WHAT IT SAYS....and THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED according to evolution....and the Universe series I am watching....

I did not know what this meant a year ago, and thought the passage was bat ass crazy, it was NOT until I began studying the creation of the Universe and this program on the History channel that i FINALLY understood what it was talking about on day 4....they used FIRMED UP, or the firmament of the planets several times in this passage, but I did not understand it until recently....that it meant exactly what it said...the sun and the moon and the stars were finally firmed up in to the positions they are today.

If you do not believe in the creation story from the get go, I don't expect you to see this...but as someone who believes in both, I see no contradiction what so ever with this passage or the others, when compared to what evolution or science says what happened.

care

.

If Gen 1:16 says God made the Sun, Moon and stars, I believe that's when he made them.

I agree there is much room for interpretation in Genesis, but one cannot interpret that which is stated as fact.

Perhaps we should both reread Genesis 1 and 2 tonight and see if our positions change.

 

[Shogun]

What's a 'dogma junkie', only if it's relevant to the topic, that is?

Is this question supposed to remind me of how an alcoholic will often be the last person to comprehend that he has a drinking problem?

Do you have anything of significance or relevance to add to the debate? You haven't show that ability, so I'm wondering.

Thats pretty fucking funny given your entire thread input thus far. You wanna quote my posts and I'll quote yours to compare who has, at the very least, made relevant statements? This is what we call EVIDENCE, dogma junkie. I don't expect you to understand the concept outside of the serious urge to build a bonfire.

 

[Care4all]

your interpretation may be such... lord fucking knows how well interpretations have worked out in the past.


"formed" does not imply a series of changes. It does not imply an evolved process. And, it sure as hell doesn't imply anything about time. I love it when people try to read deeper into buzzwords that don't necessarily mean anything more profound than "it was a bunch of myth loving human beings who fabricated this shit from thin air".

but the stages do...the days and the progression of these stages, are the same stages although simplified, that science is proving now with evolution...yet 5000 years ago, this was writen down by people that should not have known or understood such....


There would have been DAY 1 and all was formed instantaneously...from the planets and stars and vegetation to fish to birds to animals to us, would have all been recorded as the FIRST DAY, Day 1...but it WAS NOT SHOGUN...it was NOT described as such...it was shown as a PROGRESSION of things....evolution, before the word evolution was even created.

the days and the progression of these stages, are the same stages although simplified, that science is proving now with evolution...yet 5000 years ago


see, but that is a bunch of interpretive horse shit. There was no firmament without a SUNS gravity to hold it in orbit. That the origin of the bible specifically mentions an earth BEFORE the creation of light. Which, again, is hogwash. YOU might try to force YOUR beliefs into the shape of modern science but...


and, again, the word "FORMED" doesn't mean anything in relation to TIME or PROGRESSION. Indeed, that they are called DAYS should tell you who, EXACTLY, fabricated that myth.

the sun was THERE already....it show such on day 1, day 2, day 3.....

what in the world was the LIGHT on those other 3 days? what god created on the 4th day was the firming up of the planets and sun and moon....the entire passage speaks of the affixing of these planets and earth in the heavens...

gravitational pulls of other moving planets kept the contents within the galaxy unset, this passage speaks of them being set in the firmament of the heavens...it does not say the sun and moon were created on this specific 4th day, it says that god created the sun and the moon for daylight and moonlight and SET them, this does not mean they were created that day....but the sun and moon created for us were SET in their positioning to us, the firmament of the skies.

this is how i read it, you are welcome to your own opinion.

 

[rdean]

What's a 'dogma junkie', only if it's relevant to the topic, that is?

Is this question supposed to remind me of how an alcoholic will often be the last person to comprehend that he has a drinking problem?

Do you have anything of significance or relevance to add to the debate? You haven't show that ability, so I'm wondering.

Is this a "debate"? Seems more like a bunch of religious nuts going over made up Bible fables as if the occult were somehow "real".

The reasons scientists don't waste their time on this nonsense are several.

First, they know that can't put a dent in ironclad religious dogma cloaked in ignorance. The mysticals are simply too indoctrinated.

Second, if you look at the average age of Nobel Prize winners, you get an indication how how long these guys (and ladies) work to get where they are. Depending on the field of study, it could be from the mid fifties to the mid seventies before they are even nominated.

To become a world class scientist takes years of study before they can contribute a single idea.

For the religious, you only need to memorize Bible passages. How hard is that? After all, it's only one book.

Scientists simply can't take a year out of their lives to combat religious superstitution. Instead, they ignore the ignorant. I believe it's to the detriment of the country.

The religious want to teach mystical creation as an alternative to science. Pathetic. Name a single scientific fact or invention that comes from the Bible. Religion shackles and dulls the mind as well as destroying curiosity.

Go ahead, laugh. You use science discovered by others to enrich your lives, but give money to churches that do nothing. They make nothing. You just go there and sit and wish to the air. In fact, the air has more substance.

 

[glade]

I know this is a confusing matter. I am a Biology major - Psychology minor and I have 100% christian believes, and when I decided to go for it, I made a pact with myself to avoid conflict. I would not try to mix my belives with my education. I dont allow myself to question one another. I keep my faith in my heart and my knowledge in my brain.

 

[k2skier]

Hmmmm?


So what did God evolve from?

from that fine looking ass in your avatar...

religion is circular logic...it's only true because god, um man, says it's true...

 

[Si modo]

I know this is a confusing matter. I am a Biology major - Psychology minor and I have 100% christian believes, and when I decided to go for it, I made a pact with myself to avoid conflict. I would not try to mix my belives with my education. I dont allow myself to question one another. I keep my faith in my heart and my knowledge in my brain.

Exactly. It is quite easy to be a scientist and believe, if one has the ability to recognize that we are both emotional and cognitive beings.

 

[Shogun]

but the stages do...the days and the progression of these stages, are the same stages although simplified, that science is proving now with evolution...yet 5000 years ago, this was writen down by people that should not have known or understood such....


There would have been DAY 1 and all was formed instantaneously...from the planets and stars and vegetation to fish to birds to animals to us, would have all been recorded as the FIRST DAY, Day 1...but it WAS NOT SHOGUN...it was NOT described as such...it was shown as a PROGRESSION of things....evolution, before the word evolution was even created.

the days and the progression of these stages, are the same stages although simplified, that science is proving now with evolution...yet 5000 years ago


see, but that is a bunch of interpretive horse shit. There was no firmament without a SUNS gravity to hold it in orbit. That the origin of the bible specifically mentions an earth BEFORE the creation of light. Which, again, is hogwash. YOU might try to force YOUR beliefs into the shape of modern science but...


and, again, the word "FORMED" doesn't mean anything in relation to TIME or PROGRESSION. Indeed, that they are called DAYS should tell you who, EXACTLY, fabricated that myth.

the sun was THERE already....it show such on day 1, day 2, day 3.....

what in the world was the LIGHT on those other 3 days? what god created on the 4th day was the firming up of the planets and sun and moon....the entire passage speaks of the affixing of these planets and earth in the heavens...

gravitational pulls of other moving planets kept the contents within the galaxy unset, this passage speaks of them being set in the firmament of the heavens...it does not say the sun and moon were created on this specific 4th day, it says that god created the sun and the moon for daylight and moonlight and SET them, this does not mean they were created that day....but the sun and moon created for us were SET in their positioning to us, the firmament of the skies.

this is how i read it, you are welcome to your own opinion.

Genesis 1
The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

Genesis 1 - Passage Lookup - New International Version - BibleGateway.com


As you can see, according to the bible god created the heavens and THE EARTH first. How does the Earth have "waters" for the spirit of god to hover over without the Sun's gravity which doesn't make an appearance until the 3rd verse?

Thanks for admitting your posts are merely "how you read them". Which, in effect, is nothing more than an opinion.

 

[jillian]

Actually, the original Hebrew, B'reishis, means "in A beginning", not THE beginning, thereby implying OTHER beginnings.

just sayin'.

 

[Shogun]

I know this is a confusing matter. I am a Biology major - Psychology minor and I have 100% christian believes, and when I decided to go for it, I made a pact with myself to avoid conflict. I would not try to mix my belives with my education. I dont allow myself to question one another. I keep my faith in my heart and my knowledge in my brain.

Exactly. It is quite easy to be a scientist and believe, if one has the ability to recognize that we are both emotional and cognitive beings.

science isn't born out of emotion. But, myths sure are!