Why Bush Bypassed the Geneva Convention

[freeandfun1]

I was just visiting a very ailing and old uncle that served in WWII. He was telling me a story about how after they invaded Sicily, one of the NCO's took about 30 Germans into a field and shot them. We all know this happened a lot during WWII, Korea and Vietnam, but now we make such a horrific deal out of what happened in Iraq. Was it right? No. But let's keep everything in context.

Hell, Kerry even admits committing war atrocities and he wants to be elected President.

 

[dilloduck]

so ive got to make this decision to submit before I die OR ELSE?

 

[Annie]

by Freedom and Fun 1If you don't believe in heaven or hell, then why are you worried about being miserable? I know lots of Atheists that are happy on this earth. What they don't realize is that they will become miserable after death. But that is their choice. Be happy now and miserable after death or be happy now, believe in Christ and be happy after death too.....

Hmmm, I think we Christians can be happy now. I think the others can be too, if they live right. It really comes down to the Golden Rule, found in some form or another in nearly all religions. BTW, no one would accuse me of being PC.

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by dilloduck
so ive got to make this decision to submit before I die OR ELSE?

Again, "or else what"? If you don't believe, then this should not be an issue to you. Right?

If you do believe, then why is it an issue?

You are confusing me..... Nobody is telling you that you have to do anything. All one can do is profess to you what they believe and then let you make that choice. Don't you get it??

You must just be f'n with me......

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Hmmm, I think we Christians can be happy now. I think the others can be too, if they live right. It really comes down to the Golden Rule, found in some form or another in nearly all religions. BTW, no one would accuse me of being PC.

Sorry.... I am not following you on this post.....

I never said that the others can't be happy now did I? They can be happy as they want to be.

 

[dilloduck]

SOOOOOOO to be happy after death I must submit to Jesus?

 

[Annie]

Duck, you must believe in an afterlife, more than killing yourself and as many others as possible. Forget the virgins.

 

[dilloduck]

I'm honestly not sure what will happen. I would like to know whats "out there" but I feel free to explore and learn. A benevolent god will see me for what I am and choose my destiny----if theres nothing "out there" not much I can do about it.
Nice to meet ya BTW

 

[Annie]

Ah a 'benevolent god' may be a big assumption on your part. It may be a god that requires a bit of thinking on your part.

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by Sir Evil
Geneva Convention to religion? I sure notice this happening to alot of threads! shall we create a religion forum for all you worship warriors?

Truly not a bad idea at all!

 

[dilloduck]

unfortunately i have contributed to this--but not without trying to deal with it in the new guy and dillo thread sorry

 

[Annie]

Have to agree with Isaac. Jesus was the ultimate warrior, overcame Satan. Islam is not as bad, close, but not as bad.

 

[pegwinn]

I couldn't find out when the original GC was adopted. But I know that by WW2 it was in effect. It was redone in 1949 and I think again in 1960. Remember, we were supposedly fighting "civilized" people. Today the GC doesn't apply because the terrorists are not a nation state. Even if they were, they wouldn't sign it anyway.

http://www.303rdbga.com/captured.html

Ergo, during TWAT, there is no treaty to be in violation of.

(the war against terror) (saw that somewhere on this board)

 

[Annie]

hmmm, I know I've read authorative papers that claimed Hitler abided by the conventions. Yet, here is what I find, C 1949:

http://www.globalissuesgroup.com/geneva/history.html
A BRIEF HISTORY OF THE LAWS OF WAR

Attempts to put limits on wartime behavior have been around since the beginning of recorded history and there have been numerous attempts to codify the rules of appropriate military conduct.

In the sixth century BCE, Chinese warrior Sun Tzu suggested putting limits on the way that wars were conducted.

Around 200 BCE, the notion of war crimes as such appeared in the Hindu code of Manu.

In 1305, the Scottish national hero Sir William Wallace was tried for the wartime murder of civilians.

Hugo Grotius wrote "On the Law of War and Peace" in 1625, focusing on the humanitarian treatment of civilians.

In 1865, Confederate officer Henry Wirz was executed for murdering Federal prisoners of war at the Andersonville prisoner of war camp. He was only one of several people who were tried for similar offenses.

In fact, it's been the past century and a half that has really seen a qualitative jump in the degree to which constraints have been placed on warring parties, and only this century that an international body has been formed to police the nations of the world.

The first Geneva Convention was signed in 1864 to protect the sick and wounded in war time. This first Geneva Convention was inspired by Henri Dunant, founder of the Red Cross. Ever since then, the Red Cross has played an integral part in the drafting and enforcement of the Geneva Conventions.

These included the 1899 treaties, concerning asphyxiating gases and expanding bullets. In 1907, 13 separate treaties were signed, followed in 1925 by the Geneva Gas Protocol, which prohibited the use of poison gas and the practice of bacteriological warfare.

In 1929, two more Geneva Conventions dealt with the treatment of the wounded and prisoners of war. In 1949, four Geneva Conventions extended protections to those shipwrecked at sea and to civilians.

The Hague Convention on the Protection of Cultural Property was signed in 1954, the United Nations Convention on Military or Any Other Hostile Use of Environmental Techniques followed in 1977, together with two Additional Protocols to the Geneva Conventions of 1949, extending their protections to civil wars.

There is no one "Geneva Convention." Like any other body of law, the laws of war have been assembled piecemeal, and are, in fact, still under construction.

It is impossible to produce a complete and up-to-date list of war crimes. Even today, weapon systems such as land mines are being debated at the highest levels of international policy.

What follows is a basic reference to the most common protections and prohibitions, as provided for in the four 1949 Geneva Conventions and the two 1977 protocols.



International Rules About Soldiers

The Geneva Conventions and supplementary protocols make a distinction between combatants and civilians.

The two groups must be treated differently by the warring sides and, therefore, combatants must be clearly distinguishable from civilians.

Although this obligation benefits civilians by making it easier for the warring sides to avoid targeting non-combatants, soldiers also benefit because they become immune from prosecution for acts of war.

For example, a civilian who shoots a sholdier may be liable for murder while a soldier who shoots an enemy soldier and is captured may not be punished.

In order for the distinction between combatants and civilians to be clear, combatants must wear uniforms and carry their weapons openly during military operations and during preparation for them.

The exceptions are medical and religious personnel, who are considered non-combatants even though they may wear uniforms. Medical personnel may also carry small arms to use in self-defense if illegally attacked.

The other exception are mercenaries, who are specifically excluded from protections. Mercenaries are defined as soldiers who are not nationals of any of the parties to the conflict and are paid more than the local soldiers.

Combatants who deliberately violate the rules about maintaining a clear separation between combatant and noncombatant groups — and thus endanger the civilian population — are no longer protected by the Geneva Convention.

Combatants who do fall within the guidelines of the Geneva Conventions enjoy the following protections:

Prisoners of war must be treated humanely. Specifically, prisoners must not be subject to torture or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind. They must also be protected against violence, intimidation, insults and public curiosity. The public display of POWs is also prohibited.
When questioned — in the prisoner's native language — prisoners of war must only give their names, ranks, birth dates and serial numbers. Prisoners who refuse to answer may not be threatened or mistreated.
Prisoners of war must be immediately evacuated away from a combat zone and must not be unnecessarily exposed to danger. They may not be used as human shields.
Finally, and most importantly, prisoners of war may not be punished for the acts they committed during the fighting unless the opposing side would have punished its own soldiers for those acts as well.


International Rules About Civilians

Both the fourth Geneval Convention and the two Additional Protocols extend protections to civilians during war time.

Civilians are not to be subject to attack. This includes direct attacks on civilians and indiscriminate attacks against areas in which civilians are present.
There is to be no destruction of property unless justified by military necessity.
Individuals or groups must not be deported, regardless of motive.
Civilians must not be used as hostages.
Civilians must not be subject to outrages upon personal dignity.
Civilians must not be tortured, raped or enslaved.
Civilians must not be subject to collective punishment and reprisals.
Civilians must not receive differential treatment based on race, religion, nationality, or political allegiance.
Warring parties must not use or develop biological or chemical weapons and must not allow children under 15 to participate in hostilities or to be recruited into the armed forces.


International Rules About Journalists

Customs have changed since the 1949 conventions were signed. In the first half of this century, journalists were considered civilian members of military, often wore uniforms, and became prisoners of war when captured.

The first, second and third Geneva Conventions extend to war correspondents all the protections due to combatants. They were not to be treated as spies and, even though their notebooks and film could be confiscated, they did not have to respond to interrogation. If they were sick or wounded, they must receive medical treatment and, if they were captured, they must be treated humanely.

This changed with the adoption of the 1977 Protocols, which explicitly recognized journalists to be civilians and due to all the civilian protections.

Now, journalists must not be deliberately targeted, detained, or otherwise mistreated any more than any other civilian.

This means that journalists now have an obligation to differentiate themselves from combatants by not wearing uniforms or openly carrying firearms.



Grievance Procedures

If a person or a group of people feels that their rights have been violated, there are a number of agencies and organization to whom they may turn for help.

Many of these agencies and organizations collect case histories and other documentation of war crimes and human rights abuses for the purposes of distributing them to the media. A few organizations will even help journalists find sources and transportation. Some representatives of these organizations speak on the record, others only for background information.

When dealing with such an organization, the journalist should respect the organization's official policies when it comes to press contacts while at the same time recognizing that some may also provide additiona information provided that some requirements are met. These requirements may include not attributing the information to that organization, finding a second source for the information or using the information in such a way that it does not expose the organization's employees or sources to any danger. These are all reasonable requests and a reporter should abide by these restrictions in order not to jeopardize the agencies' humanitarian mission or future relationships with journalists.

These agencies and organizations include, but are not limited to:

The International Committee of the Red Cross
The United Nations, the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, and the International Criminal Court.
Committee on the Rights of the Child
War Crimes Tribunal on Former Yugoslavia
International War Crimes Tribunal for Rwanda
Inter-American Court on Human Rights
Inter-American Commission on Human Rights
Amnesty International
Human Rights Watch
Medecins Sans Frontieres (Doctors Without Borders)
Local human rights groups, military commanders, elected officials


The Conventions

There are four Geneva Conventions, signed August 12, 1949, and the two additional Protocols of June 8, 1977.

Convention I

For the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field, Geneva, 12 August 1949: Sets forth the protections for members of the armed forces who become wounded or sick.

Convention II

For the Amelioration of the Condition of Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked Members of Armed Forces at Sea,Geneva, 12 August 1949: Extends these protections to wounded, sick and shipwrecked members of naval forces.

Convention III

Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, Geneva, 12 August 1949 lists the rights of prisoners of war.

Convention IV

Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, Geneva, 12 August 1949: Deals with the protection of the civilian population in times of war.

Protocol I

Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts, 8 June 1977: Eextends protection to victims of wars against racist regimes, wars of self determination, and against alien oppression.

Protocol II

Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Proection of Victims of Non-International Armed Conflicts, 8 June 1977: Extends protection to victims of internal conflicts in which an armed opposition controls enough territory to enable them to carry out sustained military operations.



Copyright © 2003 Maria Trombly. All rights reserved.

 

[Annie]

Geneva Conventions in the news

http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/G/Geneva-Conventions.htm

zh-cn:ÈÕÄÚÍß¹«Ô¼

The Geneva Conventions consist of treaties formulated in Geneva, Switzerland that set the standards for international law for humanitarian concerns. The conventions were the results of efforts by Henri Dunant, who was motivated by the horrors of war he witnessed at the Battle of Solferino.

Accusations of violation of the Geneva Conventions on the part of signatory nations are brought before the International Court of Justice at the Hague.

The conventions and their agreements are as follows:


First Geneva Convention (1864): Treatment of battlefield casualties.
Second Geneva Convention (1906): Extended the principles from the first convention to apply also to war at sea.
Third Geneva Convention (1929): Treatment of prisoners of war.
Fourth Geneva Convention (1949): Treatment of civilians during wartime.

This First Convention also mandated the foundation of the International Committee for the Red Cross. The text is given in the Resolutions of the Geneva International Conference.

The first three conventions were revised, a fourth was added, and the entire set was ratified in 1949; the whole is referred to as the "Geneva Conventions of 1949" or simply the "Geneva Conventions". Later conferences have added provisions prohibiting certain methods of warfare and addressing issues of civil wars. Nearly 200 countries are "signatory" nations, in that they have ratified these conventions.

Clara Barton was instrumental in campaigning for the ratification of the First Geneva Convention by the United States; the U.S. signed in 1882. By the Fourth Geneva Convention some 47 nations had ratified the agreements.


See also
International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies
laws of war
war crime
collateral damage
atrocity
human rights
Attacks on humanitarian workers\n\n
Other meanings
An important gaming convention is known as Gen Con.


References and external links
Geneva Conventions countries.
RedCross and Geneva Conventions



Return to Main Index of Wikipedia Articles

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by Sir Evil
Hold that thought Isaac! I have to seriously think about this one first! Sorry for the tease!

Hehe you mean run it by Jim :

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by Sir Evil
Damn Isaac - I was not aware that you new me that well!

What can I say? Us Canucks are psychic! It's in our DNA.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Sir Evil
OK Isaac - ask and you shall receive! look out for the grand opening!

For what its worth, that may have the opposite effect of what you intend and here is why:

Anyone with a spiritual belief of any kind would believ you cannot seperate it from the interworkings of politics or any other area of life because a religious belief is at the heart of all of our actions. It shapes our world view. It creates our association with how we interact with others. It filters our eyes to what we see, and our mouths to how we speak.

Bush, Clinton, Hitler, Stalin.......You cannot seperate a persons views regarding religion from their behavior nor can you seperate it from their discussions.

You also face the freedom of speech issue.

My reccommendation is that you restrict threads to topic and actively moderate it that way because anything else would get kinda hairy. It requires effort, but that is the only way to achieve what you are looking for I think.

-And I am not exactly for the idea, but I am merely trying to help.

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by dilloduck
Brilliant word---paradox ! (2 mds. right)--Thats why the great religions of the world are discussed over and over. Sooner or later people figure out they have to think for themselves because all the answers lie within.

Problem with paradoxes is that many of them are quite oddly valid.

like Obedience bringing freedom. Or you gain power over people by serving them. The paradoxes are interesting.

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by dilloduck
SOOOOOOO to be happy after death I must submit to Jesus?

Essentially. Wickedness never was happiness after all.