Who are the job creators?

[RDD_1210]

I get it. You're a concrete thinker.

I'm a logical thinker. What is the alternative to being a "concrete thinker," believing in fairies and unicorns?

You're unable to connect the dots here. Without rain, people wouldn't get wet, and thus wouldn't need umbrellas. Since rain does exist, and people would prefer to stay dry, someone created umbrellas to meet that need.

The argument here is not trying to say that someone doesn't create the product. The argument is that for the most part, someone doesn't create a product without first someone else saying that there is a need for that product. Demand drives supply.

Your problem is that you don't understand the difference between "necessary" and "sufficient." Consumer demand is a necessary condition for a product to be produced on a mass scale, but it's not sufficient. Consumer demand alone will not lead to the production of anything. It takes mean with brains, talent, ambition and courage to create products and businesses. Without those men, we would all still be living in caves.

So are you abandoning the umbrella example now too? I get it, I point out how your example proves my point, so you ignore it and change the topic/example. Rinse, and repeat.

Tell me that last thing that there was a consumer demand for that NOBODY tried to meet. I'll wait.

And you're right, it does take men with brains, talent and ambition to create products and business. I never once said otherwise.

 

[Jarhead]

I get it. You're a concrete thinker.

I'm a logical thinker. What is the alternative to being a "concrete thinker," believing in fairies and unicorns?

You're unable to connect the dots here. Without rain, people wouldn't get wet, and thus wouldn't need umbrellas. Since rain does exist, and people would prefer to stay dry, someone created umbrellas to meet that need.

The argument here is not trying to say that someone doesn't create the product. The argument is that for the most part, someone doesn't create a product without first someone else saying that there is a need for that product. Demand drives supply.

Your problem is that you don't understand the difference between "necessary" and "sufficient." Consumer demand is a necessary condition for a product to be produced on a mass scale, but it's not sufficient. Consumer demand alone will not lead to the production of anything. It takes mean with brains, talent, ambition and courage to create products and businesses. Without those men, we would all still be living in caves.

So are you abandoning the umbrella example now too? I get it, I point out how your example proves my point, so you ignore it and change the topic/example. Rinse, and repeat.

Tell me that last thing that there was a consumer demand for that NOBODY tried to meet. I'll wait.

And you're right, it does take men with brains, talent and ambition to create products and business. I never once said otherwise.

A condom that doesnt feel like you are wearing a sock on it.

 

[RDD_1210]

Nah... supply can't create it's own demand... ... NEVER been a revolutionary product or service that had no demand before it's creation ...

I suggest some education in economics, son

I didn't say that either. Sure there are completely innovative products that break new ground. But those types of products are few and far between and hardly can prop up an entire economy.

I suggest you try and actually discuss the topic instead of trying to be an asshole about it. Novel concept, I'm sure. You tried to derail the thread at the very beginning and now you're trying to create another argument I never made. Grow up.

I dont think Dave was trying to be an asshole about it...

Now Lone Laugher on the other hand....he doesnt even need to try.

Sure he was. Look at his posts. Unlike you, he has no actual interest in having a conversation. All he wants to do is steer the topic in a direction that can better suit whatever it is he wants to say.

 

[bripat9643]

So are you abandoning the umbrella example now too? I get it, I point out how your example proves my point, so you ignore it and change the topic/example. Rinse, and repeat.

You're like the black knight from Monty Python's Holy grail who insists he's winning the fight even though both his arms and both his legs have been hacked off. You haven't proven a thing other than your inability to understand when you have been beaten.

Tell me that last thing that there was a consumer demand for that NOBODY tried to meet. I'll wait.

As I pointed out, you don't understand the difference between a "necessary" condition and a "sufficient" condition. Consumer demand alone isn't sufficient to cause the production of anything.

And you're right, it does take men with brains, talent and ambition to create products and business. I never once said otherwise.

Yes, that is exactly what you have been implying. You keep saying consumers created jobs. Wrong.

 

[RDD_1210]

I'm a logical thinker. What is the alternative to being a "concrete thinker," believing in fairies and unicorns?



Your problem is that you don't understand the difference between "necessary" and "sufficient." Consumer demand is a necessary condition for a product to be produced on a mass scale, but it's not sufficient. Consumer demand alone will not lead to the production of anything. It takes mean with brains, talent, ambition and courage to create products and businesses. Without those men, we would all still be living in caves.

So are you abandoning the umbrella example now too? I get it, I point out how your example proves my point, so you ignore it and change the topic/example. Rinse, and repeat.

Tell me that last thing that there was a consumer demand for that NOBODY tried to meet. I'll wait.

And you're right, it does take men with brains, talent and ambition to create products and business. I never once said otherwise.

A condom that doesnt feel like you are wearing a sock on it.

Incorrect. Actually.....There are some amazing condoms coming out of Japan (no pun intended) that are designed with that very purpose. To feel less like "you are wearing a sock". Supply to meet the demand. Look em up. "Beyond Seven", "Kimono" and "Okamoto".

 

[RDD_1210]

So are you abandoning the umbrella example now too? I get it, I point out how your example proves my point, so you ignore it and change the topic/example. Rinse, and repeat.

You're like the black knight from Monty Python's Holy grail who insists he's winning the fight even though both his arms and both his legs have been hacked off. You haven't proven a thing other than your inability to understand when you have been beaten.

Tell me that last thing that there was a consumer demand for that NOBODY tried to meet. I'll wait.

As I pointed out, you don't understand the difference between a "necessary" condition and a "sufficient" condition. Consumer demand alone isn't sufficient to cause the production of anything.

And you're right, it does take men with brains, talent and ambition to create products and business. I never once said otherwise.

Yes, that is exactly what you have been implying. You keep saying consumers created jobs. Wrong.

If

"Consumer demand alone isn't sufficient to cause the production of anything."

then you'll be sure to give me an example of such a case. I noticed you ignored that when I asked you in my last post.

I haven't been implying anything. I've clearly stated what I mean multiple times. You continue to want to argue against something I am not stating.

Consumers create demand, demands creates the product, product creates need for jobs.

 

[Jarhead]

So are you abandoning the umbrella example now too? I get it, I point out how your example proves my point, so you ignore it and change the topic/example. Rinse, and repeat.

Tell me that last thing that there was a consumer demand for that NOBODY tried to meet. I'll wait.

And you're right, it does take men with brains, talent and ambition to create products and business. I never once said otherwise.

A condom that doesnt feel like you are wearing a sock on it.

Incorrect. Actually.....There are some amazing condoms coming out of Japan (no pun intended) that are designed with that very purpose. To feel less like "you are wearing a sock". Supply to meet the demand. Look em up. "Beyond Seven", "Kimono" and "Okamoto".

You, Sir, are a slut.

 

[Jarhead]

I am sure you are both aware of the fact that this debate has been going on for decades...and to date, there is still not a winner.

 

[RDD_1210]

A condom that doesnt feel like you are wearing a sock on it.

Incorrect. Actually.....There are some amazing condoms coming out of Japan (no pun intended) that are designed with that very purpose. To feel less like "you are wearing a sock". Supply to meet the demand. Look em up. "Beyond Seven", "Kimono" and "Okamoto".

You, Sir, are a slut.

If there is a demand for my services, I will have to supply them.

 

[RDD_1210]

I am sure you are both aware of the fact that this debate has been going on for decades...and to date, there is still not a winner.

I seriously question what BriPat is aware of.

 

[Foxfyre]

I so rarely disagree with DiamondDave that it is really unique when I do. But certainly there are instances where some inventive genius comes up with a concept that he KNOWS is likely to be marketable just by putting it on the market. A few examples of such inventive genius:

1. The hula hoop.
2. The pet rock.
3. Radio
4. Television
5. The personal computer (which somebody already mentioned.)
6. The sack dress, mini skirt, and almost all unique and innovative fashion.
7. The Etch-a-sketch, beanie babies, Cabbage Patch dolls
8. Ipods
9. Chia pets
10.The Kindle

Few people even conceived of, much less demanded such things until we saw one advertised or saw one for sale or saw somebody using it and then wanted it. So it IS possible to create demand by just providing the product.

Then there are the necessities for which no advertising is really necessary: bread, milk, flour, sugar, eggs, electricity, rent, transportation which we will buy at any price if it is at all feasible. Here another law of economics kicks in that there is an optimum price at which you will sell the maximum product at maximum profit. People will buy only so much of such products at ANY price so drop the price below optimum and you reduce profit; raise the price above maximum demand and you make more per unit but reduce overall profit.

And there are the products that suffer most in economic downturns and those are the high end products that people love to own but won't buy when things are tight. So, here in Albuquerque Old Town, the stores that are selling products at modest prices are hanging in there in these tough economic times. The galleries and stores selling high end jewelry, rugs, tapestries, sculptures, etc. are hurting big time right now. There are only so many of the super rich to buy such things and when the rest of the 99% are making do with less, such things are the first to go.

So.......those with a clue know the solution is to create a business friendly environment to encourage business to put all that investment capital back into the market which will create jobs that will make the people more affluent which in turn creates demand for more products.

Businesses meeting the demands of the people are who create jobs.

 

[bripat9643]

I am sure you are both aware of the fact that this debate has been going on for decades...and to date, there is still not a winner.

Actually one side won the debate long ago, the minute it started, but the other side refuses to admit that it's dead.

 

[bripat9643]

If "Consumer demand alone isn't sufficient to cause the production of anything."

then you'll be sure to give me an example of such a case. I noticed you ignored that when I asked you in my last post.

I have already given you half a dozen examples. Take penicillin. People have been dying from infections for thousands of years. Do you imagine there was no "demand" for a product like penicillin 1000 years ago? Yet, it didn't exist until a brilliant man discovered it. Demand did not create penicillin, or the light bulb or the television. Specific people did.

I haven't been implying anything. I've clearly stated what I mean multiple times. You continue to want to argue against something I am not stating.

Consumers create demand, demands creates the product, product creates need for jobs.

You just said it there: "demand creates the product." Wrong. Demand doesn't create jack shit.

 

[DiamondDave]

I get it. You're a concrete thinker.

You're unable to connect the dots here. Without rain, people wouldn't get wet, and thus wouldn't need umbrellas. Since rain does exist, and people would prefer to stay dry, someone created umbrellas to meet that need.

The argument here is not trying to say that someone doesn't create the product. The argument is that for the most part, someone doesn't create a product without first someone else saying that there is a need for that product. Demand drives supply.

Nah... supply can't create it's own demand... ... NEVER been a revolutionary product or service that had no demand before it's creation ...

I suggest some education in economics, son

I didn't say that either. Sure there are completely innovative products that break new ground. But those types of products are few and far between and hardly can prop up an entire economy.

I suggest you try and actually discuss the topic instead of trying to be an asshole about it. Novel concept, I'm sure. You tried to derail the thread at the very beginning and now you're trying to create another argument I never made. Grow up.

Few and far between?? Hardly... it is quite commonplace, son

 

[RDD_1210]

You're like the black knight from Monty Python's Holy grail who insists he's winning the fight even though both his arms and both his legs have been hacked off. You haven't proven a thing other than your inability to understand when you have been beaten.



As I pointed out, you don't understand the difference between a "necessary" condition and a "sufficient" condition. Consumer demand alone isn't sufficient to cause the production of anything.



Yes, that is exactly what you have been implying. You keep saying consumers created jobs. Wrong.

If

"Consumer demand alone isn't sufficient to cause the production of anything."

then you'll be sure to give me an example of such a case. I noticed you ignored that when I asked you in my last post.

I haven't been implying anything. I've clearly stated what I mean multiple times. You continue to want to argue against something I am not stating.

Consumers create demand, demands creates the product, product creates need for jobs.

You just said it there: "demand creates the product." Wrong. Demand doesn't create jack shit.

Still waiting on that example of a consumer demand that didn't in turn result in someone trying to create a product to meet that demand.

 

[RDD_1210]

Nah... supply can't create it's own demand... ... NEVER been a revolutionary product or service that had no demand before it's creation ...

I suggest some education in economics, son

I didn't say that either. Sure there are completely innovative products that break new ground. But those types of products are few and far between and hardly can prop up an entire economy.

I suggest you try and actually discuss the topic instead of trying to be an asshole about it. Novel concept, I'm sure. You tried to derail the thread at the very beginning and now you're trying to create another argument I never made. Grow up.

Few and far between?? Hardly... it is quite commonplace, son

Your well thought out list of examples and restraint of attempted insults convinced me thoroughly.

 

[RDD_1210]

I am sure you are both aware of the fact that this debate has been going on for decades...and to date, there is still not a winner.

Actually one side won the debate long ago, the minute it started, but the other side refuses to admit that it's dead.

First thing you've said in this thread that has made sense.

 

[bripat9643]

You just said it there: "demand creates the product." Wrong. Demand doesn't create jack shit.

Still waiting on that example of a consumer demand that didn't in turn result in someone trying to create a product to meet that demand.

What you fail to understand is that providing no example doesn't prove your case. No one ever claimed anyone tries to produce goods for which there is no demand.

The substitute for logic you employ is really an amazing spectacle to behold.

 

[RDD_1210]

You just said it there: "demand creates the product." Wrong. Demand doesn't create jack shit.

Still waiting on that example of a consumer demand that didn't in turn result in someone trying to create a product to meet that demand.

What you fail to understand is that providing no example doesn't prove your case. No one ever claimed anyone tries to produce goods for which there is no demand.

The substitute for logic you employ is really an amazing spectacle to behold.

Actually, your lack of an example completely proves my case. The point that I was making the entire thread.

If you somehow could show me an example of a genuine need that there was in the consumer market space that NOBODY has attempted to meet, then you would be right.

But your inability to give an example only further reinforces my point which is that if the consumer market demands something, someone will try to fill that need.

Hence, demand drives supply and thus the economy.

You lose concrete boy.

 

[DiamondDave]

You just said it there: "demand creates the product." Wrong. Demand doesn't create jack shit.

Still waiting on that example of a consumer demand that didn't in turn result in someone trying to create a product to meet that demand.

What you fail to understand is that providing no example doesn't prove your case. No one ever claimed anyone tries to produce goods for which there is no demand.

The substitute for logic you employ is really an amazing spectacle to behold.

Or a product that should drive a demand because of it's nature... nobody demanded the first pacman machine... nobody demanded the pocket fisherman... nobody demanded tangelos... nobody demanded cat costumes... nobody demanded the song "Wanted Dead or Alive"... and so many other things... demand was driven by the product itself... and this does happen more often than most of these people think