Who Are A Few of Your Favorite Founding Fathers?

[Judicial review]

My main favorites are Ben Franklin, Adams the Elder, Gouverneur and Robert Morris, Elbridge Gerry, John Sherman, and George Mason. Of those most people name frequently, probably Madison and Monroe, barely. I define the Signers of The Declaration and the delegates to the 1787 Convention as 'Founders', a rather broad definition.

And no, Paine was not a Founder, in my definition; many of the most famous from that era were certainly noteworthy Patriots, but not 'Founders', though often lumped with them. Others have narrower definitions of who could be considered 'Founders', but imo I prefer the broader one I stated here. I'm not particularly fond of any of the Federalists outside of some the New England faction, especially Hamilton.

Dante - Case in point.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

theDoctorisIn

Thomas Paine, although I don't know if he would be considered a "founding father".

Paine, the unicameral legislature guy? The man Adams said was better at tearing things down than building things up? The man who's ideas on constitutional government contributed mightily to Adams' rush to put out his Thoughts on Government (which he later wished he had put more time and thought into)?

I think Adams' observations on Paine's 'feeble' understanding of constitutional government, and especially his critique of Paine's advocating a unicameral legislature -- and then Paine's ridiculous notion that a war with England would be quick -- are spot on.

One problem I've seen with people (you're excluded for now) who profess an admiration and understanding of Paine, is that they will look up quotes like one's of Adams' expressing delight upon reading Common Sense -- take it out of any truly honest contextual framework, and conclude that great minds like Adams supported Paine's ideas across the board. Some leaders saw in Paine, a useful idiot. I think any critical reading of Paine would reveal him to be a very dangerous man: A firebrand, a reactionary, and a radical who issue in a cure worse than the disease

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

If you don't say Washington you are unamerican. This is the biggest trick question troll question of all time. I should have posted it.

Washngton -- trick questions? The only trick here is the one you constantly use on yourself...and even that is boring as hell.

Considering that Washington is the founder of our nation and the greatest American of all time, which nobody can deny, yes it is. Plus, they would later form our Government and some could say they were liberal or conservative and not know what the hell that meant back then. The uneducated.

First of all Washington was NEVER considered to be the 'founder' of this nation. Never -- not by anyone, at any time. Washington has been referred to as the 'father' of this nation. Look up: epithet

You appear, on this subject, to be one of the most uneducated. Look up: irony

 

[Judicial review]

If you don't say Washington you are unamerican. This is the biggest trick question troll question of all time. I should have posted it.

Washngton -- trick questions? The only trick here is the one you constantly use on yourself...and even that is boring as hell.

Considering that Washington is the founder of our nation and the greatest American of all time, which nobody can deny, yes it is. Plus, they would later form our Government and some could say they were liberal or conservative and not know what the hell that meant back then. The uneducated.

First of all Washington was NEVER considered to be the 'founder' of this nation. Never -- not by anyone, at any time. Washington has been referred to as the 'father' of this nation. Look up: epithet

You appear, on this subject, to be one of the most uneducated. Look up: irony

Thank you for proving my point. I assume you know by now that it doesn't matter if you use the word founder or father it all comes down to 1 man and that's as close as you are going to get. Washington. Case in point. It doesn't mean what the others who wrote the documents weren't as important it just means they didn't lead the Continental army through terrable weather, torture, physical mental pain, to win the war, then believe in it so much to serve to protect what was fought for till he realized there's only so much one man can do for a nation.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Thomas Paine, although I don't know if he would be considered a "founding father".

Without Paine, I am unsure how much broad, popular support could have been rallied at the time it was. In looking back, timing was as relevant as luck was. In my not-so-humble opinion, Paine deserves much praise for adding fuel to a smoldering fire.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

If you don't say Washington you are unamerican. This is the biggest trick question troll question of all time. I should have posted it.

Washngton -- trick questions? The only trick here is the one you constantly use on yourself...and even that is boring as hell.

Considering that Washington is the founder of our nation and the greatest American of all time, which nobody can deny, yes it is. Plus, they would later form our Government and some could say they were liberal or conservative and not know what the hell that meant back then. The uneducated.

First of all Washington was NEVER considered to be the 'founder' of this nation. Never -- not by anyone, at any time. Washington has been referred to as the 'father' of this nation. Look up: epithet

You appear, on this subject, to be one of the most uneducated. Look up: irony

Thank you for proving my point. I assume you know by now that it doesn't matter if you use the word founder or father it all comes down to 1 man and that's as close as you are going to get. Washington. Case in point.

Washington is NOT considered the greatest American of all time by anyone with even a cursory reading of early American history. Thank you, dear turd, for proving Dante's point

 

[Judicial review]

If you don't say Washington you are unamerican. This is the biggest trick question troll question of all time. I should have posted it.

Washngton -- trick questions? The only trick here is the one you constantly use on yourself...and even that is boring as hell.

Considering that Washington is the founder of our nation and the greatest American of all time, which nobody can deny, yes it is. Plus, they would later form our Government and some could say they were liberal or conservative and not know what the hell that meant back then. The uneducated.

First of all Washington was NEVER considered to be the 'founder' of this nation. Never -- not by anyone, at any time. Washington has been referred to as the 'father' of this nation. Look up: epithet

You appear, on this subject, to be one of the most uneducated. Look up: irony

Thank you for proving my point. I assume you know by now that it doesn't matter if you use the word founder or father it all comes down to 1 man and that's as close as you are going to get. Washington. Case in point.

Washington is NOT considered the greatest American of all time by anyone with even a cursory reading of early American history. Thank you, dear turd, for proving Dante's point

See the edit. Yes - Washington is the greatest American of all time and we will NEVER see another man like him. Ever.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Who Are A Few of Your Favorite Founding Fathers? You can include Abigail Adams if you so prefer.

Top of my current list of well know ones are: John Adams, John Marshall, Hamilton, Madison...

The why will come later as will names of some not so well known ones

Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Franklin, Hamilton.

Washington was called the one indispensable man of the Revolutionary generation (coined by Jefferson). No one disagreed with him. No victory over the British....no Constitutional Convention...and no Presidency as we know it without him.

Madison is called the Father of the Constitution and with good reason. He put forth the Virginia Plan that was largely adopted into what is now our current system of Government. One of the main authors of the Federalist Papers (along with Hamilton and to a much lesser degree John Jay). A key supporter of the Bill of Rights. A leading voice in the early Congress.

Jefferson where to begin. Declaration of Independence is probably the greatest political paper in history. A major figure in advocating for Religious Freedom....(See Statutes for Religious Freedom: Virginia). Founder of the University of Virginia....Louisiana Purchase.....you get the idea.

Monroe: Revolutionary War hero. Wounded and nearly died in battle. Served at Valley Forge with Washington. Crossed the Delaware. Negotiated the Louisiana Purchase. One of the best Secretary of States in U.S. History. Formulated the Monroe Doctrine which is still U.S. Policy. Only man to serve two cabinet positions at the same time.

Hamilton: Revolutionary war hero. Main author of the Federalist Papers. Financial genius. Saw America as a manufacturing power long before anyone else.

Franklin....brought France into the war on the side of America. Without France, we probably lose. Brilliant writer and thinker.

Washington: Jefferson also criticized Washington -- but in the very Jefferson way -- snidely and from behind a facade. Washington was not as popular with other leaders as popular history and myth leads people to believe. He was a unifying force in that one was needed and he fit the bill. His personality and honor, integrity, and virtue served him and the floundering nation well. But his flaws were many and quite obvious to those leaders who knew him. But he was needed -- the role if not the man -- he was needed.

Was he indispensable? Probably not. Was the role he played needed? As far as we can tell -- most likely. Most likely, not most definitely

 

[Picaro]

Paine was a good propagandist, but so were several others, Jefferson et al, and so was Otis; but both Paine and Otis were pointedly ignored after the Revolution was over and they were no longer needed for the Cause; Otis was deported later, iirc. Useful at a certain point in time, but not 'Founders'. I like Otis' inflammatory hyperbole better, personally; and far more entertaining. Paine was too much of a nerd and rather boring in toto.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Washngton -- trick questions? The only trick here is the one you constantly use on yourself...and even that is boring as hell.

Considering that Washington is the founder of our nation and the greatest American of all time, which nobody can deny, yes it is. Plus, they would later form our Government and some could say they were liberal or conservative and not know what the hell that meant back then. The uneducated.

First of all Washington was NEVER considered to be the 'founder' of this nation. Never -- not by anyone, at any time. Washington has been referred to as the 'father' of this nation. Look up: epithet

You appear, on this subject, to be one of the most uneducated. Look up: irony

Thank you for proving my point. I assume you know by now that it doesn't matter if you use the word founder or father it all comes down to 1 man and that's as close as you are going to get. Washington. Case in point.

Washington is NOT considered the greatest American of all time by anyone with even a cursory reading of early American history. Thank you, dear turd, for proving Dante's point

See the edit. Yes - Washington is the greatest American of all time and we will NEVER see another man like him. Ever.

Well any reason you can dream up to support this whimsical notion of yours, if posted -- can be knocked down quite effortlessly

 

[Judicial review]

Who Are A Few of Your Favorite Founding Fathers? You can include Abigail Adams if you so prefer.

Top of my current list of well know ones are: John Adams, John Marshall, Hamilton, Madison...

The why will come later as will names of some not so well known ones

Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Franklin, Hamilton.

Washington was called the one indispensable man of the Revolutionary generation (coined by Jefferson). No one disagreed with him. No victory over the British....no Constitutional Convention...and no Presidency as we know it without him.

Madison is called the Father of the Constitution and with good reason. He put forth the Virginia Plan that was largely adopted into what is now our current system of Government. One of the main authors of the Federalist Papers (along with Hamilton and to a much lesser degree John Jay). A key supporter of the Bill of Rights. A leading voice in the early Congress.

Jefferson where to begin. Declaration of Independence is probably the greatest political paper in history. A major figure in advocating for Religious Freedom....(See Statutes for Religious Freedom: Virginia). Founder of the University of Virginia....Louisiana Purchase.....you get the idea.

Monroe: Revolutionary War hero. Wounded and nearly died in battle. Served at Valley Forge with Washington. Crossed the Delaware. Negotiated the Louisiana Purchase. One of the best Secretary of States in U.S. History. Formulated the Monroe Doctrine which is still U.S. Policy. Only man to serve two cabinet positions at the same time.

Hamilton: Revolutionary war hero. Main author of the Federalist Papers. Financial genius. Saw America as a manufacturing power long before anyone else.

Franklin....brought France into the war on the side of America. Without France, we probably lose. Brilliant writer and thinker.

Washington: Jefferson also criticized Washington -- but in the very Jefferson way -- snidely and from behind a facade. Washington was not as popular with other leaders as popular history and myth leads people to believe. He was a unifying force in that one was needed and he fit the bill. His personality and honor, integrity, and virtue served him and the floundering nation well. But his flaws were many and quite obvious to those leaders who knew him. But he was needed -- the role if not the man -- he was needed.

Was he indispensible?

Who Are A Few of Your Favorite Founding Fathers? You can include Abigail Adams if you so prefer.

Top of my current list of well know ones are: John Adams, John Marshall, Hamilton, Madison...

The why will come later as will names of some not so well known ones

Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Franklin, Hamilton.

Washington was called the one indispensable man of the Revolutionary generation (coined by Jefferson). No one disagreed with him. No victory over the British....no Constitutional Convention...and no Presidency as we know it without him.

Madison is called the Father of the Constitution and with good reason. He put forth the Virginia Plan that was largely adopted into what is now our current system of Government. One of the main authors of the Federalist Papers (along with Hamilton and to a much lesser degree John Jay). A key supporter of the Bill of Rights. A leading voice in the early Congress.

Jefferson where to begin. Declaration of Independence is probably the greatest political paper in history. A major figure in advocating for Religious Freedom....(See Statutes for Religious Freedom: Virginia). Founder of the University of Virginia....Louisiana Purchase.....you get the idea.

Monroe: Revolutionary War hero. Wounded and nearly died in battle. Served at Valley Forge with Washington. Crossed the Delaware. Negotiated the Louisiana Purchase. One of the best Secretary of States in U.S. History. Formulated the Monroe Doctrine which is still U.S. Policy. Only man to serve two cabinet positions at the same time.

Hamilton: Revolutionary war hero. Main author of the Federalist Papers. Financial genius. Saw America as a manufacturing power long before anyone else.

Franklin....brought France into the war on the side of America. Without France, we probably lose. Brilliant writer and thinker.

oh well... whole post lost...

grrr...

and you are going to go off of what Jefferson thought of him as proof of this? Lol.. Your not worth the time let alone my time.

 

[Judicial review]

Considering that Washington is the founder of our nation and the greatest American of all time, which nobody can deny, yes it is. Plus, they would later form our Government and some could say they were liberal or conservative and not know what the hell that meant back then. The uneducated.

First of all Washington was NEVER considered to be the 'founder' of this nation. Never -- not by anyone, at any time. Washington has been referred to as the 'father' of this nation. Look up: epithet

You appear, on this subject, to be one of the most uneducated. Look up: irony

Thank you for proving my point. I assume you know by now that it doesn't matter if you use the word founder or father it all comes down to 1 man and that's as close as you are going to get. Washington. Case in point.

Washington is NOT considered the greatest American of all time by anyone with even a cursory reading of early American history. Thank you, dear turd, for proving Dante's point

See the edit. Yes - Washington is the greatest American of all time and we will NEVER see another man like him. Ever.

Well any reason you can dream up to support this whimsical notion of yours, if posted -- can be knocked down quite effortlessly

Then quit talking and wasting my time and do it. You are all talk.

 

[rightwinger]

I love Franklin

A genius and rock star of our nation. He was mobbed in Europe wherever he went and gave us credibility. Without France, we would not have won the revolution. If he was ten years younger, he would have been President

Jefferson and Madison were the brains behind the movement. Great liberals of their time

John Adams gets ignored, but he was the sober realist plotting a path we could follow

 

[rightwinger]

Sarah Palin weighs in

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Who Are A Few of Your Favorite Founding Fathers? You can include Abigail Adams if you so prefer.

Top of my current list of well know ones are: John Adams, John Marshall, Hamilton, Madison...

The why will come later as will names of some not so well known ones

Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Franklin, Hamilton.

Washington was called the one indispensable man of the Revolutionary generation (coined by Jefferson). No one disagreed with him. No victory over the British....no Constitutional Convention...and no Presidency as we know it without him.

Madison is called the Father of the Constitution and with good reason. He put forth the Virginia Plan that was largely adopted into what is now our current system of Government. One of the main authors of the Federalist Papers (along with Hamilton and to a much lesser degree John Jay). A key supporter of the Bill of Rights. A leading voice in the early Congress.

Jefferson where to begin. Declaration of Independence is probably the greatest political paper in history. A major figure in advocating for Religious Freedom....(See Statutes for Religious Freedom: Virginia). Founder of the University of Virginia....Louisiana Purchase.....you get the idea.

Monroe: Revolutionary War hero. Wounded and nearly died in battle. Served at Valley Forge with Washington. Crossed the Delaware. Negotiated the Louisiana Purchase. One of the best Secretary of States in U.S. History. Formulated the Monroe Doctrine which is still U.S. Policy. Only man to serve two cabinet positions at the same time.

Hamilton: Revolutionary war hero. Main author of the Federalist Papers. Financial genius. Saw America as a manufacturing power long before anyone else.

Franklin....brought France into the war on the side of America. Without France, we probably lose. Brilliant writer and thinker.

Washington: Jefferson also criticized Washington -- but in the very Jefferson way -- snidely and from behind a facade. Washington was not as popular with other leaders as popular history and myth leads people to believe. He was a unifying force in that one was needed and he fit the bill. His personality and honor, integrity, and virtue served him and the floundering nation well. But his flaws were many and quite obvious to those leaders who knew him. But he was needed -- the role if not the man -- he was needed.

Was he indispensible?

Who Are A Few of Your Favorite Founding Fathers? You can include Abigail Adams if you so prefer.

Top of my current list of well know ones are: John Adams, John Marshall, Hamilton, Madison...

The why will come later as will names of some not so well known ones

Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Franklin, Hamilton.

Washington was called the one indispensable man of the Revolutionary generation (coined by Jefferson). No one disagreed with him. No victory over the British....no Constitutional Convention...and no Presidency as we know it without him.

Madison is called the Father of the Constitution and with good reason. He put forth the Virginia Plan that was largely adopted into what is now our current system of Government. One of the main authors of the Federalist Papers (along with Hamilton and to a much lesser degree John Jay). A key supporter of the Bill of Rights. A leading voice in the early Congress.

Jefferson where to begin. Declaration of Independence is probably the greatest political paper in history. A major figure in advocating for Religious Freedom....(See Statutes for Religious Freedom: Virginia). Founder of the University of Virginia....Louisiana Purchase.....you get the idea.

Monroe: Revolutionary War hero. Wounded and nearly died in battle. Served at Valley Forge with Washington. Crossed the Delaware. Negotiated the Louisiana Purchase. One of the best Secretary of States in U.S. History. Formulated the Monroe Doctrine which is still U.S. Policy. Only man to serve two cabinet positions at the same time.

Hamilton: Revolutionary war hero. Main author of the Federalist Papers. Financial genius. Saw America as a manufacturing power long before anyone else.

Franklin....brought France into the war on the side of America. Without France, we probably lose. Brilliant writer and thinker.

oh well... whole post lost...

grrr...

and you are going to go off of what Jefferson thought of him as proof of this? Lol.. Your not worth the time let alone my time.

Jefferson and many others. You are truly ignorant of that which you profess to be informed on.

 

[Picaro]

I love Franklin

A genius and rock star of our nation. He was mobbed in Europe wherever he went and gave us credibility. Without France, we would not have won the revolution. If he was ten years younger, he would have been President

His diplomatic abilities were certainly critical to keeping the Revolution going, along with Morris' financial and logistical skills.

John Adams gets ignored, but he was the sober realist plotting a path we could follow

Yes. People either forget or don't know he was the primary editor of the Declaration, and Jefferson merely his secretary and scribe at the time.

 

[Judicial review]

Who Are A Few of Your Favorite Founding Fathers? You can include Abigail Adams if you so prefer.

Top of my current list of well know ones are: John Adams, John Marshall, Hamilton, Madison...

The why will come later as will names of some not so well known ones

Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Franklin, Hamilton.

Washington was called the one indispensable man of the Revolutionary generation (coined by Jefferson). No one disagreed with him. No victory over the British....no Constitutional Convention...and no Presidency as we know it without him.

Madison is called the Father of the Constitution and with good reason. He put forth the Virginia Plan that was largely adopted into what is now our current system of Government. One of the main authors of the Federalist Papers (along with Hamilton and to a much lesser degree John Jay). A key supporter of the Bill of Rights. A leading voice in the early Congress.

Jefferson where to begin. Declaration of Independence is probably the greatest political paper in history. A major figure in advocating for Religious Freedom....(See Statutes for Religious Freedom: Virginia). Founder of the University of Virginia....Louisiana Purchase.....you get the idea.

Monroe: Revolutionary War hero. Wounded and nearly died in battle. Served at Valley Forge with Washington. Crossed the Delaware. Negotiated the Louisiana Purchase. One of the best Secretary of States in U.S. History. Formulated the Monroe Doctrine which is still U.S. Policy. Only man to serve two cabinet positions at the same time.

Hamilton: Revolutionary war hero. Main author of the Federalist Papers. Financial genius. Saw America as a manufacturing power long before anyone else.

Franklin....brought France into the war on the side of America. Without France, we probably lose. Brilliant writer and thinker.

Washington: Jefferson also criticized Washington -- but in the very Jefferson way -- snidely and from behind a facade. Washington was not as popular with other leaders as popular history and myth leads people to believe. He was a unifying force in that one was needed and he fit the bill. His personality and honor, integrity, and virtue served him and the floundering nation well. But his flaws were many and quite obvious to those leaders who knew him. But he was needed -- the role if not the man -- he was needed.

Was he indispensible?

Who Are A Few of Your Favorite Founding Fathers? You can include Abigail Adams if you so prefer.

Top of my current list of well know ones are: John Adams, John Marshall, Hamilton, Madison...

The why will come later as will names of some not so well known ones

Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Franklin, Hamilton.

Washington was called the one indispensable man of the Revolutionary generation (coined by Jefferson). No one disagreed with him. No victory over the British....no Constitutional Convention...and no Presidency as we know it without him.

Madison is called the Father of the Constitution and with good reason. He put forth the Virginia Plan that was largely adopted into what is now our current system of Government. One of the main authors of the Federalist Papers (along with Hamilton and to a much lesser degree John Jay). A key supporter of the Bill of Rights. A leading voice in the early Congress.

Jefferson where to begin. Declaration of Independence is probably the greatest political paper in history. A major figure in advocating for Religious Freedom....(See Statutes for Religious Freedom: Virginia). Founder of the University of Virginia....Louisiana Purchase.....you get the idea.

Monroe: Revolutionary War hero. Wounded and nearly died in battle. Served at Valley Forge with Washington. Crossed the Delaware. Negotiated the Louisiana Purchase. One of the best Secretary of States in U.S. History. Formulated the Monroe Doctrine which is still U.S. Policy. Only man to serve two cabinet positions at the same time.

Hamilton: Revolutionary war hero. Main author of the Federalist Papers. Financial genius. Saw America as a manufacturing power long before anyone else.

Franklin....brought France into the war on the side of America. Without France, we probably lose. Brilliant writer and thinker.

oh well... whole post lost...

grrr...

and you are going to go off of what Jefferson thought of him as proof of this? Lol.. Your not worth the time let alone my time.

Jefferson and many others. You are truly ignorant of that which you profess to be informed on.

Still waiting you to prove me wrong. You aren't putting much effort into this. I'll take it as I'm correct.

 

[rightwinger]

I did my founding fathers tour over the weekend visiting the homes of Jefferson, Madison and Monroe

Great men

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Who Are A Few of Your Favorite Founding Fathers? You can include Abigail Adams if you so prefer.

Top of my current list of well know ones are: John Adams, John Marshall, Hamilton, Madison...

The why will come later as will names of some not so well known ones

Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Franklin, Hamilton.

Washington was called the one indispensable man of the Revolutionary generation (coined by Jefferson). No one disagreed with him. No victory over the British....no Constitutional Convention...and no Presidency as we know it without him.

Madison is called the Father of the Constitution and with good reason. He put forth the Virginia Plan that was largely adopted into what is now our current system of Government. One of the main authors of the Federalist Papers (along with Hamilton and to a much lesser degree John Jay). A key supporter of the Bill of Rights. A leading voice in the early Congress.

Jefferson where to begin. Declaration of Independence is probably the greatest political paper in history. A major figure in advocating for Religious Freedom....(See Statutes for Religious Freedom: Virginia). Founder of the University of Virginia....Louisiana Purchase.....you get the idea.

Monroe: Revolutionary War hero. Wounded and nearly died in battle. Served at Valley Forge with Washington. Crossed the Delaware. Negotiated the Louisiana Purchase. One of the best Secretary of States in U.S. History. Formulated the Monroe Doctrine which is still U.S. Policy. Only man to serve two cabinet positions at the same time.

Hamilton: Revolutionary war hero. Main author of the Federalist Papers. Financial genius. Saw America as a manufacturing power long before anyone else.

Franklin....brought France into the war on the side of America. Without France, we probably lose. Brilliant writer and thinker.

This doesn't really explain the broad range in the political spectrum that you've chosen.

1) Hamilton, on the opposite end of the Whig spectrum as Patrick Henry, is someone I would consider more of a Tory. His fiscal-military ambitions and visions of a leviathan state, to my mind, place him even to the left of virtually any of the other Federalists.

2) And Washington, rather than resist Hamilton's proclivities to building a state that would manage the economy and tax the people, took the "interloper" under his wing. Washington, as splendidly as he redeemed himself in the Revolutionary War after his Seven Years' War fiasco, may be a notable founder, but more as a general than as a politician (to my mind, anyway).

Throwing these two in with the four founders of a more libertarian-republican persuasion still makes this an "interesting grouping."

1) your notes on Hamilton:
huh? Tory = left? "leviathan" can you post without the usual hyperbole?

2) "interloper" if you explain this one and keep your head up...

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I did my founding fathers tour over the weekend visiting the homes of Jefferson, Madison and Monroe

Great men

What about Boston and Quincy and New York? You damn rebel! LOL