Which Side Are You On?

[thereisnospoon]

That's one hell of a leap to make. I trust government more than private corporate interests.

What variety of logic let's you make the assumption that I believe everyone should then work for the government? I'll go out on a limb and guess Glenn Beck taught you everything you know about deductive reasoning.

Do corporations do a better job of keeping employment here in America than any other entity?

Well given there are only two choices Private and Public, since you seem to hate the idea of Private that leaves only public. So I guess that assumption came from some idiot who listens to madcow all day.

Jones and Lauglin Steel. Bethlehem Steel. Wheeling Pittsburgh Steel. US Steel. Rubbermaid. Sterling China Co. Louthan Foundry.


Just some of the privately owned corporations which have abandoned America. They took the works. The factories, the jobs, the opportunities for working families to make a good future here and sent them all to Asia and Mexico.

That's why I don't trust corporatations. They get the best from American workers and then fold up their tents and steal away in search of greater profits. I wonder how they (the corporations) can still imagine having paying customers when they take the jobs away.

One common feature of all of those firms is .......high labor costs.
Because labor consists of the largest percentage of manufacturing combined with global competition add in high taxes, crushing regulations and idiotic free trade agreements with inferior economies we have a loss of manufacturing jobs.
One poster on here used John Deere as an example in this context...The OP made reference to JD's plant in China...What he failed to mention is there is just ONE plant there. 59 manufacturing plants are here in the US.
Of course one with an agenda never allows facts to get in the way of a good rant.

 

[bripat9643]

No company ever sells anything at below cost. What would be the point of that?

However, union thugs always accuse their foriegn competition of selling below cost because their costs are far lower than the costs of companies overpopulated with fat, lazy overpaid union thugs.

China loses steel dumping case, a sign of things to come | McClatchy

Steel Dumping | U.S. Targets Brazil, Japan in Steel-Dumping Ruling - Los Angeles Times
Greater New Orleans AFL-CIO: Steel Dumping Crisis
Industry seeks protection from steel dumping

The point of it is to effectively kill the American stel industry.

The only thing you kill by selling below cost is yourself. That's the path to bankruptcy.

Your articles prove nothing other than the fact that the federal government is willing to do the bidding of steel industry union thugs

 

[signelect]

In order to hire people you have to have a product or service that you can sell for more than it cost. That is what Corporate America does best. The government's only source of income is taxes and that is what they do best. They don't care what it cost, just raise taxes, never mind finding a cheaper way to do it.

Business is not bad. Politicians are.

 

[Nosmo King]

No company ever sells anything at below cost. What would be the point of that?

However, union thugs always accuse their foriegn competition of selling below cost because their costs are far lower than the costs of companies overpopulated with fat, lazy overpaid union thugs.

China loses steel dumping case, a sign of things to come | McClatchy

Steel Dumping | U.S. Targets Brazil, Japan in Steel-Dumping Ruling - Los Angeles Times
Greater New Orleans AFL-CIO: Steel Dumping Crisis
Industry seeks protection from steel dumping

The point of it is to effectively kill the American stel industry.

The only thing you kill by selling below cost is yourself. That's the path to bankruptcy.

Your articles prove nothing other than the fact that the federal government is willing to do the bidding of steel industry union thugs

Those nations have steel industries subsidized by their governments. Capitalism it ain't.

And stop it with the 'union thug' meme. You don't know enough to speak of union workers. Calling out the epithet of 'thug' makes you look, incredibly, less informed than the little revealed by the rest of your posts. You're a one trick pony and it's old, old, old.

 

[Nosmo King]

Well given there are only two choices Private and Public, since you seem to hate the idea of Private that leaves only public. So I guess that assumption came from some idiot who listens to madcow all day.

Jones and Lauglin Steel. Bethlehem Steel. Wheeling Pittsburgh Steel. US Steel. Rubbermaid. Sterling China Co. Louthan Foundry.


Just some of the privately owned corporations which have abandoned America. They took the works. The factories, the jobs, the opportunities for working families to make a good future here and sent them all to Asia and Mexico.

That's why I don't trust corporatations. They get the best from American workers and then fold up their tents and steal away in search of greater profits. I wonder how they (the corporations) can still imagine having paying customers when they take the jobs away.

One common feature of all of those firms is .......high labor costs.
Because labor consists of the largest percentage of manufacturing combined with global competition add in high taxes, crushing regulations and idiotic free trade agreements with inferior economies we have a loss of manufacturing jobs.
One poster on here used John Deere as an example in this context...The OP made reference to JD's plant in China...What he failed to mention is there is just ONE plant there. 59 manufacturing plants are here in the US.
Of course one with an agenda never allows facts to get in the way of a good rant.

Is it important for a first world republic like the United States to have a vibrant middle class?

Eroding the buying power of the middle class by lowering wages to third world status would drive the last spike in our national coffin.

 

[daveman]

Well given there are only two choices Private and Public, since you seem to hate the idea of Private that leaves only public. So I guess that assumption came from some idiot who listens to madcow all day.

Jones and Lauglin Steel. Bethlehem Steel. Wheeling Pittsburgh Steel. US Steel. Rubbermaid. Sterling China Co. Louthan Foundry.


Just some of the privately owned corporations which have abandoned America. They took the works. The factories, the jobs, the opportunities for working families to make a good future here and sent them all to Asia and Mexico.

That's why I don't trust corporatations. They get the best from American workers and then fold up their tents and steal away in search of greater profits. I wonder how they (the corporations) can still imagine having paying customers when they take the jobs away.

One common feature of all of those firms is .......high labor costs.
Because labor consists of the largest percentage of manufacturing combined with global competition add in high taxes, crushing regulations and idiotic free trade agreements with inferior economies we have a loss of manufacturing jobs.
One poster on here used John Deere as an example in this context...The OP made reference to JD's plant in China...What he failed to mention is there is just ONE plant there. 59 manufacturing plants are here in the US.
Of course one with an agenda never allows facts to get in the way of a good rant.

There was another thread here a few months ago all breathless about China's new fighter and how it was going to outclass everything we have. Yes, it's a decent airframe. What they doom-sayers didn't take into account, however, is that without engines, it's nothing. And China lacks the technology and the know-how to make their own quality jet turbine engines. They have to buy them from overseas.

If China's making John Deere tractors, it's only because America showed them how.

 

[Richard-H]

Fear not the Government - Fear the Wealthy!

 

[georgephillip]

No company ever sells anything at below cost. What would be the point of that?

However, union thugs always accuse their foriegn competition of selling below cost because their costs are far lower than the costs of companies overpopulated with fat, lazy overpaid union thugs.

China loses steel dumping case, a sign of things to come | McClatchy

Steel Dumping | U.S. Targets Brazil, Japan in Steel-Dumping Ruling - Los Angeles Times
Greater New Orleans AFL-CIO: Steel Dumping Crisis
Industry seeks protection from steel dumping

The point of it is to effectively kill the American stel industry.

The only thing you kill by selling below cost is yourself. That's the path to bankruptcy.

Your articles prove nothing other than the fact that the federal government is willing to do the bidding of steel industry union thugs

Did you read all four articles in the four minutes between Nosmo's post and your response?

Do you think any Chinese parasites would like to eliminate US steel makers?

What is the only state in history to lose more jobs in a single decade that the US lost between 2000 - 2010?

 

[bripat9643]

Did you read all four articles in the four minutes between your response to Nosmo's post?

Do you think any Chinese capitalists would like to eliminate US steel makers?

What is the only state in history to lose more jobs in a single decade that the US lost between 2000 - 2010?

I don't need to read all four articles. The first was enough.

Every corporation wants to eliminate its competition. That's been going on since the inception of commerce. One way US corporations do it is by getting the government to impose tariffs on them.

Corporations don't operate at a loss to kill off their competition. The only possible outcome for such a policy is bankruptcy for the corporation that attempts it.

 

[georgephillip]

Our Department of Commerce ignored the dumping of foreign steel here. American steel and American steel workers can be the most competitive on the planet. All we ask is a level playing field.

No company can compete with imports which are sold at below cost.

No company ever sells anything at below cost. What would be the point of that?

However, union thugs always accuse their foriegn competition of selling below cost because their costs are far lower than the costs of companies overpopulated with fat, lazy overpaid union thugs.

"Steel producers in China get cheap, if not free, capital.

"They have undervalued their currency, which is an effective subsidy for exports. And they've manipulated the tax system in various ways that have increased the subsidy," said Prestowitz, the author of 'Three Billion New Capitalists,' a book that examines the shift of global wealth to China and India.

"Many Chinese steel companies are state-owned or owned by provincial governments.

"That prevents needed mergers that experts say China needs to create a smaller number of larger, more efficient companies.

"For the Chinese government, however, which derives much of its legitimacy from the nation's blistering economic growth, there's enormous pressure to preserve jobs."

China loses steel dumping case, a sign of things to come | McClatchy

 

[sparky]

In the struggle between Corporate America vs. We the People, which side are you on?

Here is the problem. You've created a false dichotemy. For whatever reason you believe that a corporation, or rather an association of people working together on some business venture, is in conflict with the American people. Yet you've provided no evidence of it. You've shown nothing of why corporations are evil or why they are more dangerous than other forms of business.

I simply don't accept your premise that we the people are at war with corporations as corporations are merely a vehicle some of us use to conduct business.

corporatists have no allegiance to America Avatar, they only have an allegiance to thier bottom line.

now with that in mind, consider that lazze faire capitalism creates socialism by far and large more than the welfare queens ranted about continuosley these days

socialism is the free trade b*tchslap of such market(s)

 

[sparky]

Did you read all four articles in the four minutes between your response to Nosmo's post?

Do you think any Chinese capitalists would like to eliminate US steel makers?

What is the only state in history to lose more jobs in a single decade that the US lost between 2000 - 2010?

I don't need to read all four articles. The first was enough.

Every corporation wants to eliminate its competition. That's been going on since the inception of commerce. One way US corporations do it is by getting the government to impose tariffs on them.

ain't a happenin' thang....

Corporations don't operate at a loss to kill off their competition. The only possible outcome for such a policy is bankruptcy for the corporation that attempts it.
the Chinese regulary engage in 'dumping'

 

[georgephillip]

Anybody remember Archie and Edith?

"Everybody pulled his weight.
Didn't need no welfare state...
Those were the days!"

...says a guy incapable of pulling his own weight.

"Everybody pulled his weight, Didn't need no welfare state... Those were the days!"

Those are some of the lyrics from the theme song to the popular 1970s TV sitcom 'All in the Family', considered controversial in its day, about a working-class bigot named Archie Bunker, who sang it at the top of the show with his wife Edith.

"Archie's nostalgia for pre-1960s America informed much of the show, which satirized small-minded conservatism (and) paranoid patriotism..."

Say "hi" to Edith, Archie.

Which Side Are You On? New Language for a New Political Reality | Common Dreams

 

[sparky]

"Archie's nostalgia for pre-1960s America informed much of the show, which satirized small-minded conservatism (and) paranoid patriotism..."

 

[georgephillip]

In the struggle between Corporate America vs. We the People, which side are you on?

In the struggle between We the People and an All Powerful Central Government, which side are you on?

The ALL powerful central government IS SOME of corporate America.

There's the Insiders and there's everybody else, folks.

And even within the Insiders, there's some who are more INSIDE than others.

You know, if we keep dumbing down the nature of the problem, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of doing anything about it.

"The economic crisis has bitten hard and deep. Millions of people have been impacted by high unemployment and home foreclosures, by decreased job benefits and job security, and by the realization that none of these afflictions will end soon.

"A sense of betrayal is settling into the popular consciousness. People are coming to believe that despite their hard work and 'playing by the rules,' a long-term decline is placing the American Dream increasingly out of their reach."

Richard Wolff argues this latest looting by Wall Street reveals how big business, big government and the richest 5% of Americans wage class war. Wolff points out how, by design, only "government" is the "socially acceptable object of anger, protest, and rage..."

Prospects for the U.S. Left: Not Bad At All | Professor Richard D. Wolff

 

[georgephillip]

"Archie's nostalgia for pre-1960s America informed much of the show, which satirized small-minded conservatism (and) paranoid patriotism..."

Meathead in 2012!

 

[Ernie S.]

Its called not buying the product works extremely well perhaps you've heard of not picking it up off the shelve.

Are corporations widely regarded as great stewards of our natural resources? Corporations are motivated by their own profit margins, not the public good.

LMAO!! So let me guess you think everyone should work for the government instead.

That's one hell of a leap to make. I trust government more than private corporate interests.

What variety of logic let's you make the assumption that I believe everyone should then work for the government? I'll go out on a limb and guess Glenn Beck taught you everything you know about deductive reasoning.

And you learned deductive reasoning from Saul Alinsky?

 

[georgephillip]

In the struggle between Corporate America vs. We the People, which side are you on?

For the most part, Corporate America. Mostly because I don't believe that most Americans deserve what they've already got, nevermind anything more.

Though honestly I'm not on either side. I'm on my own side.

You're standing alone against capital's Goliaths.

"Thanks largely to the $13 trillion Wall Street bailout – while keeping the debt overhead in place for America’s 'bottom 98 per cent' – this happy 2 per cent of the population now receives an estimated three quarters (~75 per cent) of the returns to wealth (interest, dividends, rent and capital gains).

"This is nearly double what it received a generation ago.

"The rest of the population is being squeezed, and foreclosures are rising."

Michael Hudson: Obama's Greatest Betrayal

 

[georgephillip]

Anybody remember Archie and Edith?

"Everybody pulled his weight.
Didn't need no welfare state...
Those were the days!"

Archie Bunker, protagonist of the popular 1970s TV sitcom "All in the Family" and today's Tea Party movement seem to share a misconception of just how "conservative" the 1930s, 40s and 50s actually were.

Were those decades a time when hard-working Americans pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps?

"It's true that Americans worked hard during these years.

"But the bootstraps stuff is nonsense.

"The 30s through 50s were the time of the New Deal, low-cost loans from the Federal Housing Administration, the GI Bill, huge subsidies for defense contractors during the Cold War and other industries that employed millions of people, massive transfer of funding from cities to the burgeoning suburbs, federal projects like interstate highway construction and the space program, generous investment in public schools, record union membership, high tax rates for corporations and the wealthy, good job benefits, and Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, which ensured financial stability in old age and medical crises...

"On the evidence of history, calling today's Republican Party and their Tea Party supporters 'conservative' is as absurd as calling supporters of civil rights and racial justice 'reactionary' because they invoke the values of the Reconstruction Era."

Which Side Are You On? New Language for a New Political Reality | Common Dreams

Oh...Ok....Nice try Gerogie..
Back then, this was called a "hand up". Now it's viewed as an expected "hand out".
Too many of us look upon social saafety nets as " you owe me".
That's the difference.
BTW, never refer to taxes and "forced sacrifice" as investments. An investment in it's concept has a potrential for positive financial return.
Government plans LOSE money. All of them. As a matter of fact,, govt programs are over stuffed inefficient bureaucracies that cosnume taxpayer resources and look to consume more.

Were those who fought WWII "owed" the GI Bill?

How about their children, the millions of boomers now facing retirement?
Are they "owed" Social Security and Medicare benefits they've contributed to for decades?

Taxes are investments in democracy.
They fund the infrastructure that enables corporations to exist, much less prosper by outsourcing.
What has greater potential for positive financial return than public education?

For thousands of years all governments have socialized costs and privatized profits for the benefit of a small percentage of humanity. It's time to privatize many of the costs and start socializing most of the profits for the majority of humanity.

 

[georgephillip]

There is a profound difference between giving a person a Hand up from a Hand out. Nobody has a problem giving a person a hand up there is however a problem giving them a hand out.

In the struggle between Corporate America vs. We the People, which side are you on?

That's YOUR struggle.
Your problem is you spend so much time peering over the fence to see what everyone else is doing instead of concentrating on your own affairs.
Bootstraps? Ok, perfect example. During the "dustbowl" era, many families simply gave up and moved to find work in more prosperous areas of the country. They didn't sit idly by and wait for the taxapyer tit to arrive. They did what they had to do to make a living.
You on the other hand would have cried out for some kind of new social program to pay these people.

Some members of my family migrated to California during the "dustbowl era" and a some found employment in the WPA. "They did what they had to do to make a living."

Maybe YOUR struggle misses the irony of the Cold War's struggle between capitalism and communism in that "capitalism in the US and other western countries required generous helping of socialism to make it work."

Conservatives like Eisenhower and Nixon understood this and generally supported New Deal programs like low-cost loans from the FHA, the GI Bill and federal projects like interstate highway construction and NASA.